Why do hail teams fail compared to sandstorm teams?

Horny

^ title.

I never really understood this. We see many sandstorm teams but no hail teams. Is it because they are really easy to counter, only ice pokemon dont get affected ETC?

What counters a hail team so bad that it must not be used. If not, why arent they used?
 
There a ton more Pokemon that benefit from and are immune to sand. Pokemon who directly benefit Rock types with 1.5x special defense boost, while Steel, Rock, and Ground types are immune to it. Only Ice-type Pokemon are immune to hail, and only Ice Body Pokemon benefit directly from it (is Walrein the only one that really uses it well?).
 
That's because they generally all use the same guarantee 4 Ice pokes, and then 2 of a random 5 amount, which all falls short to ultimately same collective Pokes. For example, 3 common things that Hail teams don't really wanna keep seeing: Tyranitar, Infernape, Gyarados. Most Hail teams have what, one half assed attempt to stop any of those Pokes, but the second one of those fragilie things fail, it's game over.

Also being immune to Sand or Ice doesn't mean anything, it's just a false pretense many people seem to believe that's why every single 6 Poke ground/steel/rock teams die to an Infernape short of using a Dugtrio or random Focus Sash shit.
 
I think it's because Tyranitar or Hippowdon have much more staying power than Abomasnow. Also Hail only benefits ice pokemon, whereas in a Sandstorm steels, rock and ground types are immune, thus more pokemon can be considered in the team without risking losing health every turn. Or maybe people just like to abuse Brightpowder Chomp =\
 
Sandstorm is simply more versatile. While only Ice types benefit from hail, Sandstorm encourages use of Rock, Steel, and Ground types. If one person works on a hail team, and the other sandstorm, the latter has far more options from the get-go, especially as there are few Ice types to begin with. There are also several Ground types (and Cacturne)who have Sand Veil, while all Rock types get a special defense boost. Among the few Ice types there are, many of them have abilities that have nothing to do hail, like Weavile and Jynx.

EDIT: Sigh, beaten.
 
Mostly People try to overabuse hail
which has rock steel fire fighting weak horribly.

so don't ever use 6 pokes that are immune to hail
as it has implode in some utter destruction. Sand has more options with 3
types. hail teams are usually not serious is another reason
 
Hail is limited to one type's "immunity" which is ice. (Personally, I feel that certain water and dragon type should be immune as well.)

Sandstorm's immunities passes onto three different types: rock, ground, and steel. the thing with this is that it allows for more versatility, as many hail teams consist of the same Pokemon because there is more of a limit there.

Also, with ice-types (being the ones commonly used in hail), ice-types do not have a great "defensive" spread, as they are weak to fighting, rock, and fire. Rock/ground/steel being a defensive spread can counter weaknesses more easily (steel's weakness of fire w/ rock; ground's weakness of grass with steel, etc.)

Also, Sandstorm gives better effects. It gives a 1.5x (correct?) sp. def boost for Rock-types. Hail.. doesn't do squat for ice types except give a 100% blizzard.

Therefore, hail just.. it's been screwed over in the metagame, haha.
 
You know, you COULD use Golduck in a hail team too (and Rayquaza, yes)...

Generally it's the simple fact that Hail team just basically becomes a "mono-Ice" team with maybe one or two different types. Generally it can work but it's a bit tricky to keep the stall going.

Eh, Sandstorm has more benefits than Hail to be frankly honest. The only benefits in hail are 100% Blizzard and Ice Body... and I guess Snow Cloak.
 
Ice is a shit defencive type. Full stop. Sandstorm gets rock, ground and Steel to play around with, a great offencive type and a great defencive.
 
SS makes Shuckle, Cradily, Probopass, amongst other things, all the better.

What does Hail do? Only Ice Heal Stallrein. That's it. Sand Veil and its counterpart Snow Cloak, imo, both suck.
 
The two main reasons have already been mentioned. Hippowdon and Tyranitar fit on just about any team, whereas Abomasnow does not. People have a mindset of "I have Hail on my team, so therefore, all my Pokemon must be immune!". This mindset still exists for teams with SS Pokemon, but at least they have a wider base to draw from.
 
Strength and defence. That's how I see it. Sandstorm teams are ready to explode with strength and are absolutely no slouch defensively. So many sandstorm Pokemon are bulky at the same time as being able to knock you the fuck out, e.g - Tyranitar, Garchomp and Heatran (but to a much lesser extent, defensively). Hail teams are restricted to one type, only really use a narrow range of attacking moves and receive no weather bonus. Most ice Pokemon are extremely fragile. Most sandstorm immune Pokemon are not. That's how I view this matter.
 
i think the problem is that most hail teams should not be hail teams. instead of trying to use hail with an abomasnow lead, save it til the end, when you've figured out more of your opponents team. slip blizzard onto a couple pokes that aren't generally going to be attacking, but supporting (vaporeon comes to mind, as does bliss...) or have enough other attacking options that they can get by with them (specs starmie? froslass?) and have one attack that they don't always use...

and the other part of your team can fight in any weather, or perhaps are ideal for taking out sand pokes...personally i think something like kabutops has untapped potential as a t-tar counter...


but really? hail teams are gimmick. best use is stall-rein or spamming glaceon's blizzard...
 
So will Kabutops be switching into Tyranitar as it Dragon Dances, or Substitute and Focus Punches, or just plain CB Stone Edges or Earthquakes? Now if you say switch it in after something else dies, then we could go on for days about what counters what.
 
I think it also has something to do with two pokemon getting the sandstream ability (Hippo and Ttar) while only one gets snow warning (abomasnow). With the choice of both sandstreamers, and both doing different jobs, its much easier to fit one into your team, so they are more popular.
 
I think that Hail Teams usually fail since it only allows one thing to benefit from it - Blizzard. Although it's worth it, having a 120 Base Power Attack at 100 Accuracy with a chance of Freeze status, it's only one factor that benefits from Hail. The immunity to be damaged by Hail is also another factor, a little, however. You can use EnduRev/Endure+Flail or Endure+Berry Boost in Sandstorm by most Pokemon, since most of them are immune to the Sandstorm damage, such as Lucario and Kabutops, but non can in Hail, except Glaceon if you use it for Flail. The SpD boost in Sandstorm for Rock types make Sandstorm get more attention than Hail teams as well.

There are more offensive choices in Sandstorm teams. Garchomp, SD-Gliscor, Tyranitar, Lucario, Nidoking, Rhyperior, etc. Nevertheless, there is an improvement for Starmie and Porygon-Z, where they gain better Ice type moves, and Walrein.

If it's based on usability, I'll definitely lean towards Sandstorm teams as they gain many options in terms of offense and defense, while Hail Teams lack the defensive side. If it's based on 'whether-you-prefer-to-use-[Insert Team Here]-just-for-fun', I'd go with Hail since you get to use 120 Base Power Blizzard. >:] The bottom line is, Sandstorm beats Hail teams hands down, but Hail teams are not useless.
 
Stealth Rock maybe another reason. 2/3 of the types used for sand teams are resistant to it, while ice types are weak to it meaning more need for a spinner. Which need to come in easily (not ice type), in order to survive a hit and then spin.
 
Sandstorm teams are more flexible and benefit from a Special Defense increase, beinging no harm to three types, and Hail teams only benefit from Snow Cloak, Snow Body, and Blizzard being 100% accurate. Hail hurts everything except Ice types and Pokemon with abilities that don't let Hail bring harm to them, which are Clefable with Magic Guard, Golduck with Cloud Nine, and Rayquaza with Air Lock (of course, none of them are good and allowed in standard, respectively).

Sandstorm teams are good, but you'll have to watch out for Pokemon like Metagross, other Tyranitar or Hippowdon, and Swampert on the opposing team, since they actually benefit from the stat boost. Hail, on the other hand, does nothing to either you nor the opponent, so then what's the risk of running a Hail team? Infernape would cause problems, true, but that's nothing a prepared counter like a bulky water type could take care of, and Hippowdon wouldn't be knocked out right away with Grass Knot, and stuff like that.

Sandstorm teams are better by leaps and bounds, but Hail teams have their merits. Plus, Weavile benefits from not needing a Quick Attack move to deal with Reversal or Flail users!

*inhale*
 
Amandabynes said:
Stealth Rock maybe another reason. 2/3 of the types used for sand teams are resistant to it, while ice types are weak to it meaning more need for a spinner. Which need to come in easily (not ice type), in order to survive a hit and then spin.
Click to expand...

Cloyster can do the job, but with a price.

The bottom line is sandstorm has way more options and possibilities. Sandstorm teams have solid defenses were as hail teams phail at defending themselves. Sandstorm teams have 3 types that have an "immunity" to sandstorm, hail only has one. Sandstorm is clearly superior, but hail teams aren't luvdics, if you catch my drift.
 
You could say though that the limited immunity of hail is a strength too. It may limit your team choices, but it also limits enemies who are immune to it.

When using a hail team against non-hail,how often do you run into opposing ice types? Right. Thought so.

When you have a sandstorm team even against a non-sstream you will still run into Garchomp, Lucario, Forretress, Skarmory, Metagross, Heatran . . . well you get my point.

However, you could also point out that this means very few ice types see any OU useage outside of hail teams . . . which means that they are usually overall crappy.
 
Hail teams are shredded by Stealth Rocks. Sandstorm teams can be all defensive/offensive/whatever. Ice teams are limited to way less pokes.
 
Only Ice types are not affected. With Sandstorm, Ground, Rock, AND Steel types are not affected. So pretty much Hail teams > Sandstorm teams, unless you have a mono type team Ice perhaps.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top