Ye Olde Stall Team (D/P Wifi, not Pt)

I am so tired of Shoddy OU right now. It's almost always the same old thing. Deoxys-E. Scizor. Skymin. Heatran. Zapdos. Suicune. That's pretty much every team right there. Platinum sucks, and I hate it.

So I am returning to the only place where I can avoid these new annoyances. Wifi. And it's awesome. There is truly thoughtful team building, because you can't just change it up whenever you feel like. Your team has to be able to stand up to anything. You grow attached to your team members too, because they stick with you through every battle. Another difference is that there is a lot of old, forgotten sets like Specs Lucario, Bulky Gyarados, and Azelf that don't set up SR and blow up. It's almost nostalgic.

The basic strategy is to get those Toxic Spikes down, and prevent spinning. Porygon2 stalls with Recover and counters some big threats like Gyarados, Salamence, and Heatran. Celebi Sub Seeds and tries to sweep by taking advantage of Blissey. Many bulkier threats can be destroyed by Toxic + Leech seed damage, even if I don't really have an answer for them. Tentacruel sets down the spikes and helps against Fire types. Also rapid spins so my team can switch around freely. Spiritomb blocks the Rapid Spin, he Taunts to prevent people from recovering, and he also Will O Wisps anything that isn't poisoned.

Salamence is my main fighting type counter, and tries to sweep when the poison damage has taken it's toll. Also packs Earthquake which is VERY important, taking out steels who resist Toxic. Lucario has some neat resistances and tries to tear through physical walls with his Choice Specs boosted attacks.


So, without further ado, here is my classic team, built way back in '07. But it's coming out of retirement for one more go at it, thanks to my new, bulkier Salamence and the loss of Garchomp.

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Porygon2 @ Leftovers
Calm Nature
236 HP / 152 Def / 80 SpA / 40 SpD

Discharge
Ice Beam
Toxic
Recover

Porygon2 is just plain awesome, and is WAY cooler than Porygon-Z. With only one weakness, tons of potential immunities (he loves eevelutions) and Recover, he can stall with the best of them. Discharge has a good paralysis chance, which is probably a bad idea... but I use him on more teams than just this one, so I will not change it. Ice Beam helps against Salamence, and thanks to Tracing Intimidate, it's no threat at all. Toxic is for those tougher levitators that aren't poisoned yet. Recover is for restoring HP.

Anyways, he's pretty self explanatory. Thanks to him, I never ever ever have to worry about Gyarados unless it's like, DD LO Gyarados and flinches me three times in a row. But that's highly unlikey, and has never happened yet.


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Tentacruel @ Leftovers
Calm Nature
208 HP / 84 Def / 216 SpD

Toxic Spikes
Rapid Spin
Surf
Sludge Bomb


It's Tentacruel, one of my favourite RBY pokemon. I finally got a good one, and when I learned he could set up Toxic Spikes, you bet I was thrilled. He's been a staple of my stall teams for like, ages.

With a colossal 363 Special Defense and 352 HP, it can tank fire attacks like a real man. It takes hits from Heatran better than Blissey even, thanks to it's resistance to the attack. Infernape is utterly walled, and so is Gengar. Even Thunderbolt doesn't 2HKO. But it usually never comes to that. Spiritomb takes out all those sweepers earlier on.

I have chosen Sludge Bomb to hit bulky water types harder, as well as Celebi, who thanks to the fact I have Liquid Ooze shouldn't be hard to chase off!


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Spiritomb @ Leftovers
Calm Nature
252 HP / 68 SpA / 190 SpD

Shadow Ball
Hypnosis
Taunt
Pain Split

Spiritomb's defenses and lack of weaknesses help me get out of difficult situations. As far as countering Gengar, Azelf and Alakazam go, there is no parallel. Taunt shuts down Blissey switch-ins and helps me beat CM Cressilia, who I can actually stall out of Ice Beams before it kills me if I taunt it early enough.

I have chosen Hypnosis, because this is D/P, it has 70% accuracy, and I can incapacitate something immune to poison, like Jirachi or Bronzong.

Blocks Rapid Spin, counters Psychics. Not much else to say about him, but he's one of my favourites.



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Celebi @ Leftovers
Bold
252 HP / 252 Def / 6 Spe

Leech Seed
Substitute
Calm Mind
Psychic


When I first received Celebi in a trade (it's 10 ANIV) I was confused by it's moveset. I wanted Recover on there somewhere! And Grass Knot! Screw this subseeding thing!

But all the moves were PP Maxed for me, and I didn't have any heart scales. So for my first time using him, i stuck with what it came with. And boy, I was pleasantly surprised.

With 100/100 defenses, 404 HP and Calm Mind, this thing is a Grass type dream come true. Everyone sends in Blissey on this thing. Most Celebi have like, Grass Knot and Reflect and pose no threat, so why not, right? Well, thats where you're wrong. Leech Seed + Leftovers restores MORE HP than a Substitute takes away when Celebi is fighting Blissey. After one Calm Mind, Ice Beam doesn't break the substitute, and Seismic Toss doesn't either. This means I can keep on boosting until my opponent realizes how they completely screwed over their team, and they either power off, or run to a Dark type when they realize I have Psychic as my only attack. Their desperate struggle ends quickly when Toxic Spikes + Leech Seed kills them in six turns. Yes, that's right, six. If I have 6 PP left for Substitute when their Dark type comes in, I can beat them. Then they have to face down a Celebi with over 1000 SpA and SpD.

In other words, while I can't really counter things directly like a regular Celebi can, it doesn't really matter that much. Thanks to the natural instinct of switching a wall into Celebi, I can take advantage of it and set up for a sweep. And Psychic > Grass Knot... because too many pokemon 4x resist Grass in OU, and there are only two OU Dark types, both of which are not immune to Leech Seed or Toxic.

I am sticking with Calm Mind. I just found out Celebi can set up on Hidden Power Ice Zapdos. That's sweet.

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Lucario @ Choice Specs
Modest Nature
252 SpA / 252 Spe / 6 Def

Aura Sphere
Dark Pulse
Hidden Power Ice
Vacuum Wave

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46963

Specs Lucario is making a comeback, and for good reason. Most people hopped on the SD Luke bandwagon because it was popular. Thing is, it doesn't even work anymore. Everyone knows Lucario is running SD/CC/ES and one other move... which means every team probably has multiple answers for Lucario. Mine does. I can stop it with Salamence, Spiritomb, or revenge kill with my own Lucario. There is also Gyarados, Zapdos, etc etc. Any well built team will have means of killing it quickly and easily.

So anyways, I take advantage of the common switch-ins to physical Lucario to yield some surprise kills. Gliscor, Gengar, Salamence and more are all brutally smacked down by Specs Lucario. He's the better set in my opinion. Did you know that most of the OU Metagame can be 2HKOed by this pokemon? There is no counter for Specs Lucario, only prediction. So, if I am smarter than my opponent, I can feasibly rip his team to shreds, one attack at a time. With Lucario's myriad of resists it's not hard to keep coming back for more beatings.

I use his neat 4x resistances and powerful attacks to deal with all sorts of problems. The lack of Life Orb and immunity to many kinds of passive damage helps me keep him around. Please guys, give Specs Lucario a try again. If you've got even limited prediction skills, you'll be tearing stuff up in no time.

I am sticking with Lucario. He saved me last match by killing off a cocky Swampert, who expected to survive a CC. Also, Bronzong would remove my only priority move, as well as my only Dark resist.

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Salamence @ Leftovers
Jolly
212 HP / 200 Def / 96 Spe

Dragon Dance
Roost
Dragon Claw
Earthquake

Aldaron's Bulkymence (thanks buddy!) is easily the best Salamence set out there. With Intimidate giving him 370 defense and 384 HP switching in, it's a nearly unbreakable physical force. That's tougher than Slowbro and Suicune, mind you! Roost is the perfect recovery move, turning Salamence into a pure Dragon type, and removing all kinds of nasty weaknesses. With his amazing defensive prowess and Roost, Dragon Dance is easy to set up. When I've got a couple of them, it's easy to sweep, as unless you've got a pretty strong Ice Beam, Salamence is going to kill you before you can kill him.

To give you an idea of how stupidly tough this guy is, here is a damage calc of +2 Lucario's Extremespeed: 36.72%-43.49%. I can come in on Lucario Swords Dancing, DRAGON DANCE, and still have enough HP left over to kill it off, even with Stealth Rock up. Of course, that's dumb of me. Usually I just kill it outright with Earthquake. You can't always count on being at 100% health.



Anyways, that's it right there. The only pokemon that gives me trouble is LO Mamoswine and Dragonite. I am thinking Bronzong > Lucario right now, but I'll totally miss the attacking power. Are these pokemon common enough to warrant changing the team?



THREAT LIST:

Aerodactyl: Depending on the build, I either have to beat it with prediction, or use Porygon2 or Celebi, my bulkiest generic tanks.

Alakazam: Spiritomb or Celebi. It's frail, but it hits hard. I have two of the game's best counters here. I have yet to see anyone use my Hidden Power Bug one on Wifi yet (except me) so Celebi remains a good counter.

Azelf: Spiritomb usually. Pretty hard to beat without him. Luckily most players are stupid and waste their Azelf setting up Stealth Rock. Then I just Rapid Spin them away; most Ghosts won't switch into Tentacruel fearing STAB Surf.

Blissey: Celebi can set up on it. Lucario 2HKOs most versions. Mostly I just let Spiritomb take the paralysis, then I keep Taunting it whenever it comes in on Tentacruel or Porygon2. The Toxic Spikes will put it into KO range from Lucario or Salamence soon enough.

Breloom: Celebi and Salamence handle it pretty well. Too bad I have to let something sleep :S

Bronzong: Pretty annoying actually. I have to slowly wear it down, as I don't really have anything that can 2HKO, other than Lucario's Aura Sphere. Unfortunately, putting in a Bronzong of my own would make this much, much worse.

Celebi: Very rare on Wifi. However, they usually pose no threat to Spiritomb. If they lack Thunderwave, Lucario and Salamence can deal with it. Porygon2 does OK.

Cressilia: Spiritomb beats this very easily. Porygon2 can Toxic them to speed up the process. If they don't have Rest anyways. Either way Spiritomb can Taunt them preventing Rest.

Deoxys-E: Once again, almost non existant. I'm not entirely sure what I could do to beat this pokemon if it has Superpower.

Donphan: LOL, Celebi bait. Porygon2 doesn't mind it much either. Tentacruel can't switch in, fearing Earthquake, but it can spin away any Stealth Rocks, and Surf it for a quick kill.

Dragonite: T_T

Dusknoir: Celebi's Subs don't break from a Shadow Sneak, so they are set up bait.

Electivire: Celebi can deal with these thanks to it's high defenses, and resistance to all moves except Ice Punch. If it has an Expert Belt, it doesn't even 3HKO. If it has a Life Orb it dies even quicker. Spiritomb can weather a few hits if he has to.

Forretress: Not sure how this is a threat. It's mostly set up bait for Celebi and stuff. Tentacruel spins away any Spiking attempts. Spiritomb isn't weak to anything and can prevent it from spinning my spikes.

Gallade: Spiritomb can 2HKO with Shadow Ball, and only has to fear Night Slash. (haha) Salamence outruns and can kill it off if that doesn't work.

Gengar: Spiritomb deals with these nicely. Tentacruel can become a makeshift counter if need be.

Gliscor: Porygon2 beats them all. Lucario often kills them on the switch.

Gyarados: POOOOOORYGON2, PORYGON PORYGON PORYGON TWO

Heatran: Porygon2, Salamence, Tentacruel. Yeah.

Heracross: Requires some serious ballsy prediction. Salamence can take anything except Stone Edge, Lucario can take anything except Close Combat. Celebi can take anything except Megahorn.

Hippowdon: Porygon2, Celebi... yep yep

Infernape: Tentacruel. and if they somehow get past him and lack HP Ice, then Salamence can beat them. Spiritomb is my last ditch defense. Lucario can Vacuum Wave for revenge kill. I've never lost to an Infernape before.

Jirachi: Usually runs some pretty weird sets. Salamence can typically handle them. Spiritomb can Taunt and walls the usual Zen Headbutt Body Slam ones.

Jolteon: Porygon2, much? Celebi can wall em, HP Ice does less than STAB Thunderbolt anyways.

Kingdra: This is D/P, so Kingdra has no physical Dragon STAB. Tentacruel can take this on. I need Sludge Bomb for this though.

Machamp: Spiritomb, Celebi or Salamence. Mostly 'Tomb though.

Magnezone: I've never encountered one. But it'd be pretty scary if I ever did. Not sure how to counter Magnezone.

Mamoswine: I've got to play around it. Porygon2 can usually weather a hit or two. Lucario can nearly OHKO with Vacuum Wave, so I can try that by coming in on Ice or Rock attacks.

Metagross: I usually leave Agiligross to Celebi. Choice Bander can be played around.

Milotic: Porygon2 usually. Tentacruel abuses Milotic and sets up Toxic Spikes in it's face.

Ninjask: Doesn't really do much. I either hit it repeatedly with Porygon2, so all they pass is Speed.

Porygon-Z: Choiced ones can be played around thanks to Spiritomb. Nasty Plot versions are scary. I have to usually let Spiritomb die and then revenge with Lucario.

Roserade: Sets up Toxic Spikes... that's pretty much it. Since they usually sacrifice themselves doing so, I just need to send in Tentacruel to clean up afterwards.

Salamence: Porygon2 handles DDmence, Tentacruel handles Mixmence.

Scizor: Not really used on Wifi, but I'm sure that Salamence or Lucario can beat it down.

Skarmory: Porygon2 and Lucario mostly.

Snorlax: I rely on Celebi to stall it out. When it rests, I Calm Mind a bit and then eventually I can kill it off. if they are a mono attacker Snorlax, then Spiritomb or Lucario can wall it.

Spiritomb: Porygon2 can try and Poison it. Mostly you've just got to keep battering it with attacks.

Starmie: Porygon2 handles Starmie pretty good. So does Spiritomb.

Suicune: Celebi Leech Seeds and then Calm Minds up against it. When it finally Rests I start pummeling it. No one uses Offensive Suicune on Wifi.

Swampert: Porygon2 or Celebi take it out for me.

Tentacruel: When my opponent has a Tentacruel it's really annoying. Really really really annoying. I usually resort to trying to wear it down with Celebi, Porygon2 and Salamence. My own Tenta keeps their Toxic Spikes away.

Togekiss: I try and status it. Then I run to Spiritomb, Taunt em, and stall them out of Air Slashes. They run away eventually.

Tyranitar: Really hard, as it is unpredictable. Strangely enough, Tentacruel walls Tyraniboah really bad. Lucario can chase of DDtar and CBtar. Toxic Spikes helps greatly against him.

Vaporeon: Porygon2 walls it every time. I Toxic and Discharge it until it dies.

Weavile: Vacuum Wave basically. I've got to play around it.

Yanmega: Usually Tentacruel deals with it. If that fails, Salamence or Spiritomb then. Shadow Ball 2HKOs.

Zapdos: Porygon2 Toxics it. Then I try and pummel it as much as I can with Ice Beams, or Leech Seed it with Celebi.
 
Well you lack stealth rock so Yeah I'd toss Cario for bronzong and also I'd put a roar user in so you don't get set up on but it looks like a pretty good team overall.
 
Yeah... Bronzong will be pretty good over Lucario's spot. I'm just worried about the lack of offense. Lucario really rips through stuff after their team is worn down a bit. And the Toxic Spikes really deter them switching in anything that could possibly be poisoned.

I'll try it with Bronzong, see if I like it better.
 
I'm not the best STALL rater but I'll give it a try anyways.

How about a MixPert>Lucario. You get SR and a nice switch in to Dragonite and Mamoswine to an extent.

That's all for now xD. I'm making a vid for youtube and i don't have the time for a long rate.

Um I'll edit this post with a longer rate later.
 
I've already got a "bulky water" in Tentacruel, right now I'm leaning towards Bronzong... perhaps with Relaxed 252/252... just to handle Mamo and Dnite.
 
I've already got a "bulky water" in Tentacruel, right now I'm leaning towards Bronzong... perhaps with Relaxed 252/252... just to handle Mamo and Dnite.

Yeah I suppose that is true. My only other suggestion would be to try to fit some wish support on this team. No I'm not gonna say wishmence. That thing phails hard. Um really you can't fit anything in this team. I would go with toxic on bronzong just so you can spread toxic around to some of the more hard hitting sweepers like Tyranitar. Anyway if your plan works everything should be poisoned.

Now your biggest wall is Steel types. The only viable way I can find to fix that is fire blast on mence. But that means you would have to split EV's to do any real damage. So solid team.
 
Personally, for Porygon2 leads, I would prefer the following set of Discharge/Ice Beam/Recover/Magic Coat. I know the set is predictable and obvious, but Toxic isn't really that useful when you already have Toxic Spikes.

I think Celebi needs a bit more speed if you're going to use Substitute. Can't think of a good EV spread though.... When I play that type of Celebi, I usually go with 252 HP/176 Def/76 Spd.

On a stall team, I usually recommend all types of entry hazards. Seeing as you already have Toxic Spikes and may not have the time to set up regular Spikes, you definitely need Stealth Rock.

Being a stall team, I would say Lucario is kinda out of place. You should probably switch to Bronzong. That way, you can get Stealth Rocks up. I personally prefer the Light Clay Screens version, but any Bronzong set should help your team greatly.
 
Bronzong @ Leftovers
Relaxed Nature
252 HP / 252 DEF 6 / SpD

Gyro Ball
Earthquake
Stealth Rock
Hypnosis / Light Screen


My main worry about using this over Lucario is that I will lose my 4x Dark resist, making CBtar a bit harder to handle :S
 
I agree with you on the Platinum thing. Salamence, Scizor, and Skymin are so freakin' retarded. Although Salamence is my favorite Pokemon, having Outrage is retarded. Scizor shouldn't have Super Power as well. Skymin is just gay because of a too versatile move pool.

I will try Specs Lucario.
 
shouldnt celebi have 36 speed to outspeed jolly tyranitar,
also nothing to do with your team but wouldnt bulky gyrados be used less on wifi because every single stat point makes such a difference that it would have to have perfect IVs in almost every stat, it seems pretty balanced, you may not need bronzong though as a Choice Specs Lucario aurasphere will always OHKO mamoswine
 
Yeah, believe it or not but every Gyarados on Wifi is Bulky. Even mine, and it has pretty bad IVs. You just take a little out of defense to compensate.

Anyways, I added a threat list, and pretty much the only pokemon I have no answer for is Dragonite.

My Celebi has poor Speed IVs or I would totally put speed there for Tyranitar. Thanks for the rates everyone.
 
I would probably run some sort of weather on this team so that it negates oppoenents leftovers, *yours as well, but your team is built for it.* Hippowdon could go over Lucario/Bronzong and it could help start up weather, bring you SR, a Phazer and it has recovery. As for Celebi, I would reccomend a set sorta like this

Celebi @ Leftovers
Bold
252 HP / 252 Def / 6 Spe
- Thunder Wave
- Recover
- Leech Seed/Pyschic
- Grass Knot

This Celebi is great in stall. It can Paralyze pokemon, sap away their health with Leech seed, and it can even dish out attacks if necessary. The Ev's are a bit shaky, but seeing how this is Wi-Fi; you can't really change them.
 
I would probably run some sort of weather on this team so that it negates oppoenents leftovers, *yours as well, but your team is built for it.* Hippowdon could go over Lucario/Bronzong and it could help start up weather, bring you SR, a Phazer and it has recovery. As for Celebi, I would reccomend a set sorta like this

Celebi @ Leftovers
Bold
252 HP / 252 Def / 6 Spe
- Thunder Wave
- Recover
- Leech Seed/Pyschic
- Grass Knot

This Celebi is great in stall. It can Paralyze pokemon, sap away their health with Leech seed, and it can even dish out attacks if necessary. The Ev's are a bit shaky, but seeing how this is Wi-Fi; you can't really change them.

How could he spread around Para with toxic spikes and toxic...
 
Yeah, ok, I already explained Celebi.

Just because I'm not using the standard doesn't mean it sucks. Sub Seeding Celebi is amazing, and like I already said, anything that isn't immune to Toxic or Leech Seed gets killed in six turns, and that includes Leftovers.

And why would I want to paralyze stuff anyways, I want everything that can be poisoned poisoned. And do some of you people even think, "gee, maybe the smogon standard doesn't work here..." I mean, why do I need grass knot if Porygon2 already deals with Gyarados? Why do I need Thunderwave on a team full of Toxic Spikes?

And Substitute plus Psychic is very, very useful. I snag a lot of Gengar and Infernape switch-ins, expecting to be able to chase me out. but then they are met with a Substitute... and when they break it they get killed by Psychic. Psychic also hits Poison types that are immune to Toxic.

The only change on Celebi I would consider is Recover over Calm Mind, but considering all the games I have won due to sub/cm/leech seed I am thinking not.
 
this is the last bump. I made the changes based on my battle experiences. Any objections? This team is about as good as it can be... :)
 
Hurray for wifi!!

I'd go with Dragon Pulse instead of HP Ice on Lucario. Kingdra is becoming very popular, and few non-dragons can hit him SE.
It still OHKO's dragons, 2HKO's Gliscor, and is less expected. The foe can't switch to Suicune without taking a hefty amount of damage.

If Spiritomb dies or becomes weakened (stealth rock), I don't see anything that'll stop Super Power Deoxy-S from sweeping. Try Sucker Punch > Shadow Ball on Spiritomb so you attack it before it kills you. Just rellocate your SpA EVs into Atk.

Very good team.
 
Because things like Gengar/Lucario/Scizor/ are common and Thunder Wave really fucks them over?

It's not that hard to figure out. ~_~

And I never said your set sucked, I was just saying that a set like that could help stop pokemon like that in their tracks, by slowing them down so you can just come in for the kill. And if he's running a Specs Luke and a Bulky Mence, Paralyzing pokemon would be a lot more beneficiary to the team than poison, because they now have the upper advantage on pokemon that would normally threaten them.

That's basically the reasoning behind me suggesting that. I never said you had to use, I was just suggesting, that's what team raters do. Sorry if I came off as an ass.
 
--Porygon2--
I recommend running Bold with 252HP, 120 Def, 40 SpA, 96 SpD. I have spent a long, long time perfecting this spread for P2, and I find it is an excellent one to use in this metagame.
It is a perfect counter for any physical Salamence and any Gyarados.
Firstly, Salamence. When Salamence is sent out, switch immediately to this thing. Trace will Intimidate Salamence. Now one of two things could have happened while you switched:

a) It used Outrage straightaway. A -1 Atk (Intimidated) Life Orb Outrage does 45 - 52.9% to this Porygon2, and so you will easily survive two hits with Leftovers. This set also has enough SpA to OHKO with Ice Beam, or you can recover stall till it gets confused and has to switch out.

b) It used Dragon Dance. Now once you have switched in, it uses Outrage. A neutral (+1 DD -1 Intimidate) Life Orb Outrage does 67 - 79%, which you can survive and OHKO back with Ice Beam. You can see that this Porygon2 cannot lose to Salamence without hax, or it is running Draco Meteor.

Now for Gyarados:

a) -1 Atk Life Orb Gyarados using Waterfall - 28-34%.

b) Neutral Atk Life Orb Gyarados Waterfall - 42-50%

If you run Thunderbolt over Discharge, with this spread you are guaranteed to a minimum of 90% to 4HP Gyarados, so once Life Orb Gyarados has attacked it is OHKOed.

Hope this helps.
 
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