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Zapdos

Colonel M

Colonel M

I COULD BE BORED!
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ZAPDOS​

The Legendary Bird of old returns into the generation of new. Let's see what new toys it gets so far, shall we?
Code: 
#145 - Zapdos
Type - Electric / Flying
BST

90 HP
90 Atk
85 Def
125 SpA
90 SpD
100 Spe

Abilities

 [b]Pressure[/b]
  The opposing Pokemon uses one more PP for its move.

  [b]Lightningrod[/b] - Dream World Exclusive
   The Pokemon gains an immunity to Electric-type attacks.
The ability wielder's SpA is boosted one stage. 

[b]Moves (Note this is long)[/b]

Level-Up

Isshu:

Lv1: Peck
Lv1: ThunderShock
[b]Lv8: Thunder Wave[/b]
Lv15: Detect
Lv22: Pluck
Lv29: AncientPower
Lv36: Charge
[b]Lv43: Agility
Lv50: Discharge
Lv57: Roost
Lv64: Light Screen[/b]
Lv71: Drill Peck
[b]Lv78: Thunder
Lv85: Rain Dance[/b]

XD-Exclusive

[b]Baton Pass
Extrasensory
Metal Sound[/b]

Move Tutor Exclusive - 3rd Gen

Double-edge
Mimic
Snore
Endure
Mud Slap
Swift

Move Tutor Exclusive - 4th Gen

Air Cutter
Ominous Wind
[b]Heat Wave[/b]
[b]Signal Beam[/b]
Twister
Tailwind
Sky Attack

TMs - 3rd and 4th Gen

[b]TM05 - Roar
TM06 - Toxic
TM10 - Hidden Power[/b]
TM11 - Sunny Day
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM16 - Light Screen
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM21 - Frustration
TM24 - Thunderbolt
TM25 - Thunder
TM27 - Return
TM32 - Double Team
TM34 - Shock Wave
TM37 - Sandstorm
TM40 - Aerial Ace
TM42 - Facade
TM43 - Secret Power
[b]TM44 - Rest[/b]
TM47 - Steel Wing
TM51 - Roost
[b]TM57 - Charge Beam[/b]
TM58 - Endure
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM70 - Flash
TM73 - Thunder Wave
[b]TM82 - Sleep Talk[/b]
TM83 - Natural Gift
TM87 - Swagger
TM88 - Pluck
TM89 - U-turn
[b]TM90 - Substitute[/b]

5th Gen TMs and HMs

TM05 - Roar
TM06 - Toxic
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM11 - Sunny Day
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM16 - Light Screen
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM21 - Frustration
TM24 - Thunderbolt
TM25 - Thunder
TM27 - Return
TM32 - Double Team
TM37 - Sandstorm
TM40 - Aerial Ace
TM42 - Facade
TM44 - Rest
TM48 - Troll
TM57 - Charge Beam
TM58 - Free Fall
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM70 - Flash
[b]TM72 - Volt Charge[/b]
TM73 - Thunder Wave
TM87 - Swagger
TM88 - Pluck
[b]TM89 - U-Turn
TM90 - Substitute
TM93 - Wild Bolt
TM94 - Rock Smash
HM02 - Fly
So to note, there are only two new changes for Zapdos from Generation 4 to Generation 5, move-wise. Still, let's go ahead.

[Zapdos At a Glance]
  • Volt Charge. This is pretty much Zapdos's bigger changes in general. Volt Charge runs off of Zapdos's STAB and works similar to U-turn.
  • Lightningrod. While we don't know the "exact" details with Dream World abilities yet, some people are speculating that Dream World abilities COULD be compatible with the older mons. This would be a big boon for Zapdos as otherwise it loses Metal Sound, Extrasensory, Baton Pass, Heat Wave, and Signal Beam.
  • Solid movepool, for the most part. It has a great supportive movepool while sporting juust enough moves for the right offensive material.
  • Solid typing. Flying / Electric is pretty awesome with its numerous resistances and immunities. Steel, Ground, Grass, Fighting, Flying, and Bug are great resistances to have in general. It's weaknesses are limited to Rock- and Ice-type moves thanks to its Electric-type backing up its Thunderbolt weakness.
  • Relies on Hidden Power for overall coverage. Sadly, Electric / Fire just doesn't cut it, and it relies on either Hidden Power Grass or Ice to get its job done and done right.
  • Stealth Rock weakness is a thorn on its side. It's pretty hard to deny Zapdos's Stealth Rock weakness, which cuts down on its effectiveness on supportive or defensive movesets overall. While Rest and Roost can overcome some of the difference, it makes it difficult to keep Zapdos at full health constantly.

[Zapdos's Overall Change]

Most of Zapdos's movesets that would likely be used in Generation 5 are already On-site as seen here, so there isn't much to add to the table here. Lightningrod works on the offensive sets at best, but with no real confirmation with how Dream World abilities work, it's potential with Lightningrod is not yet known.

Volt Charge looks like an appealing move to use on defensive sets overall, but Zapdos cuts it close with 4 Moveslot syndrome. Roost is obviously the primary move, followed by a Hidden Power of your choice. Thunderbolt vs. Discharge is power versus +20% chance of paralysis, in which case Zapdos might consider Discharge. The fourth slot has a huge toss-up perhaps between Roar for phasing, Light Screen for overall SpD boost, Roar for phasing, and Heat Wave for additional coverage. Still, consider that it gives the team a scouting option, so it has merits on the defensive sets overall.

Volt Charge's biggest impact is on the Choice sets. Zapdos wasn't really lacking in moveslots here. Thunderbolt was a prime option, then followed by Hidden Power and Heat Wave. The only other move options boiled down to Extrasensory and Signal Beam. Volt Change can perfectly fit in this spot, as it allows Zapdos an option to play safe with U-turning.

Lightningrod offers interesting perks, assuming that the old stuff can be kept with the ability. Suddenly, Agility Zapdos sounds great to attempt to use. With Agility / Thunderbolt / Hidden Power Ice or Grass / Heat Wave, Zapdos can sweep with a Life Orb and a Lightningrod boost behind it. It still can't touch Blissey, but it at least has enough offense to pull off the sweep anyway. It's biggest perks are that it resists both Mach Punch and Bullet Punch; which are two big priority moves. Choice sets climb in effectiveness, with the minor disadvantage being the lock onto an attack. Even the standard Life Orb set with Roost over Agility seems fairly solid, since Zapdos has a frightening Special Attack stat and STAB Thunderbolts are hard to swallow.

I chose a random Pokemon, Blissey, to show the general impact of how powerful Zapdos can become with the boost behind it. I'm assuming 0 HP / 252 SpD neutral nature.

+1 SpA Thunderbolt, with Life Orb - 29% - 34.3%
+2 SpA Thunderbolt, no Life Orb - 33.3% - 39.3%
+2 SpA Thunderbolt, with Life Orb - 38.4% - 45.3%

The final is done with after a Charge Beam use. To show the impacts on even the first assumption with +1 SpA and Life Orb alone on other Pokemon...

0/0 Tyranitar - 57% - 67.5%
0/0 Heatran - 86.4% - 101.5%
252/0 Machamp - 87.8% - 103.4%
HP Ice vs. Standard Hippo - 81% - 95.2%


Generation 5 changed a lot, while Zapdos... not so much. Still, there's stuff that Zapdos can still do, and it's proud to show it.
 
I thought it was already re-tested and confirmed that electric absorbing abilities did, in fact, still block Thunder Wave.

Anyway, this is one of the pogeys that really doesn't need a whole lot of new tricks to stay in the game since its solid stats do most of the job. Volt Change is plenty.
 
Solid stats AND decent typing, unless rock becomes some sort of ubiquitous type this gen. Zappy will always be solid, I would imagine.

I would appreciate some move sets going along with this, as that's just how I work. :D
 
Doesn't all the speculation regarding DW abilities revolve around the possibility of passing on abilities through breeding? And the only precedent we have on a Pokemon changing abilities happened in the 3rd-4th gen transition and required evolution. So I wouldn't bet on the whole compatibility thing being true.

Though a big caveat is that we don't know what moves DW Zapdos will carry - it might have Baton Pass, Metal Sound, etc. anyway.
 
I actually think that an Agility-Life Orb Zapdos could work in this generation. With its new ability Lightningrod, Zapdos is able to break through Pokemon it was never able to before.

Zapdos @ Life Orb
Lightningrod
Modest
EVs: 32 HP/252 SpA/224 Spe
-Thunderbolt
-HP Ice
-Agility
-Roost/Heat Wave

I don't know anything about the speed tiers in Gen V, so you can allocate the Speed EVs however you want.
 
Not much thing is added to Zapdos .
I think we're going to see people running similar Gen IV version zapdos
except that U-Turn just swapped with Volt Charge .
 
I thought it was already re-tested and confirmed that electric absorbing abilities did, in fact, still block Thunder Wave.
Click to expand...
Looks like you're right, thanks for the confirmation. Will edit OP.
I would appreciate some move sets going along with this, as that's just how I work. :D
Click to expand...
Like I stated in the OP, there isn't much of a difference to its sets. On-site analysis is pretty spot on, with only minor differences with Volt Change taking precedent on Choice sets. Aside from that, it's a matter of what goes on with Lightningrod.
Doesn't all the speculation regarding DW abilities revolve around the possibility of passing on abilities through breeding? And the only precedent we have on a Pokemon changing abilities happened in the 3rd-4th gen transition and required evolution. A big caveat is that we don't know what moves DW Zapdos will carry - it might have Baton Pass, Metal Sound, etc. anyway.
Click to expand...
It's more along the lines of "we don't have a clue what Dream World does at the moment". That's why I'm not trying to note too much with it other than "it exists and may be able to be meshed with Heat Wave". Even if Heat Wave is lost, it still has Thunderbolt and Hidden Power Ice to function with, and thus has free use of Charge Beam in the final slot (unless you're crazy and want Agility / Roost / Thunderbolt / Hidden Power).

For now, it's best to assume that either situation could happen. So merely speculate on both accounts.
 
I've used this in my Rain Team to great degrees of success:

Zapdos@Choice Specs
Timid, 252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4 HP
Pressure
~Thunder
~Volt Change
~HP Ice
~Signal Beam

Although it has tons of trouble with Grounds and Blissey in general, once they're out of the way, which is most of the time as they'll stay out of the way once rain kicks in, a STAB Thunder coming off 125 Base SpA through a 180 BP move after STAB will 2HKO almost everything that does not resist it.
 
It doesn't seem like Lightningrod is a good trade off for Heat wave, because then Zapdos has issues with coverage if it has to resort to HP Fire, and then it won't be able to hit Swampert and Dragons like it used to.
 
Zapdos is actually really good this gen but Lightningrod is outclassed by Pressure if only because of Heat Wave.

With Heat Wave Zapdos is capable of tearing apart defensive cores, hitting Burungeru and waters with STAB Thunderbolt, Nattorei and other Steels with Heat Wave, and able to take quite a few hits with your excellent typing, decent defenses, and Roost.

I think it's safe to say that he'll remain solidly OU this gen.
 
I saw somebody running subroost Thunder and HP Ice Zapdos on a rain team; it grabbed a SpA boost off of my Voltros and swept me.... :(

IMO there are very few things that keep it from being outclassed by Voltros, but Roost and Lightningrod are the main two.
 
Breludicolo said:
I saw somebody running subroost Thunder and HP Ice Zapdos on a rain team; it grabbed a SpA boost off of my Voltros and swept me.... :(

IMO there are very few things that keep it from being outclassed by Voltros, but Roost and Lightningrod are the main two.
Click to expand...

I think Zapdos' more defensively/balanced stat spread keeps it apart from Voltros, preventing it from being outclassed due to superior defensive stats. It also isn't lacking in attacks either, and it has arguably, just as good of a movepool.

Heat Wave definitely also plays a role in Zapdos not being outmatched as well.
 
Zapdos DW ability is pretty cool, though even if it looks as a nice addition for defensive sets thats were it won't work since his special movepool is incredible shallow consisting only of Thunder(bolt) and Hidden Power if he loses Heatwave wich is incompatible with his Dream World ability (unless he gets it in the Dream World). Sadly he can't even make use of the ability indirectly since you can't bluff the ability thanks to pressures activation message.

Still defensive sets that don't need Heat Wave to be effective can make great use of his new immunity and the potential SpA boost, since electric is one of the most common attacking types and part of the famous BoltBeam combination.

Voltoros is a hard competitor for Zapdos, but they got quite some toys to differentiate from each other namely Nasty Plot, Taunt, Grass Knot and Mischiveous Heart on Voltoros side and Heatwave,superior defensive stats and Lightning Rod for Zapdos.
All in all Voltoros will propably be better suited for offensive Roles thats to a boosting move and better offensive Stats, but if we look back at Gen 4 we see that Zapdos strength always was his ability to exploit his great defensive typing rather than sweeping.
 
Zapdos cannot have Heat Wave and Lightningrod unless it is released from the Dream World with the move Heat Wave. Which I highly doubt, most of the DW moves have been fairly okay (SR on Aerodactyl) to flat out trollish (HYPER BEAM on Arceus).
 
Breludicolo said:
I saw somebody running subroost Thunder and HP Ice Zapdos on a rain team; it grabbed a SpA boost off of my Voltros and swept me.... :(
Click to expand...

I've been using the same set as the one you mentioned (and that scenario actually happened yesterday) and its resistances are great; I'm running Rain stall atm (still can't really decide between HP Ice, Toxic, or Roar). The new Electric immunity granted by Lightningrod is very, very nice, especially with the boost it gives. The loss of Heat Wave on Agility sets really hurts, but considering its resistance to everything Nattorei carries (you can run Sub if Leech Seed is that big an issue), it'll eventually break through.
 
pressure is a decent ability for defensive zapdos and offensive zapdos wants heat wave so lighting rod isn't doing a whole lot for it.

Shouldn't really matter, zapdos has good typing and good stats with a variety of usable move sets. The biggest issues will probably be needing to deal with garchomp and its troll 102 speed and dory, fortunately garchomp rarely runs stone edge.

With the constant influx of fighting types strong fliers like zapdos will continue to be in demand.
 
Quaily said:
pressure is a decent ability for defensive zapdos and offensive zapdos wants heat wave so lighting rod isn't doing a whole lot for it.
Click to expand...

I think i would prefer having an immunity to one of the most common attacking types rather than wasting the PP of my opponent.

I mean Pressure isn't bad, but Lightning Rod is much better than Pressure even for defensive Zapdos.
Your right for offensive Zapdos though Heatwave is too important for coverage to lose it.
 
heat wave is important for defensive zapdos because of the steel resist. You could try to get away with just electric since most steels do not resist it, but that's harder to do in gen 5 with dory and nattori around.

maybe hp fire will replace it on something like sub/toxic sets?
 
Quaily said:
heat wave is important for defensive zapdos because of the steel resist. You could try to get away with just electric since most steels do not resist it, but that's harder to do in gen 5 with dory and nattori around.

maybe hp fire will replace it on something like sub/toxic sets?
Click to expand...
I have carefully considered the option of HP Fire on defensive Zapdos. It ends up being horribly underpowered. A neutral Thunderbolt does more than 2x HP Fire. To me, this is unacceptable. In 4th gen a Zapdos without Heat Wave could fly, but not now. I just hope that Zapdos gets Heat Wave as a special move through DW.
 
Heat wave and signal beam are great coverage moves for zapdos (I forget, does he get air slash by level up?), and roost is his only healing move outside of rest, so I think the trade off for lighningrod is quite great. Zapdos does have a neat base 90 attack to run drill peck with, but then you'd have to split EVs. If Lightningrod Zapdos gets Heat wave and/or Roost as DW moves, then we'll be golden, but nothings certain.

What do you guys think? If Zapdos could only get 1 of the following from DW:

Heat wave
Extrasensory
Metal Sound
Signal Beam
Roost

What would be the best? (this is all speculation, just to clarify. We don't even know if/ when DW Zapdos will be released, or if it will even get Special moves. Arceus didn't, so why should Zapdos, right?)
 
Flareon said:
Heat wave and signal beam are great coverage moves for zapdos (I forget, does he get air slash by level up?), and roost is his only healing move outside of rest, so I think the trade off for lighningrod is quite great. Zapdos does have a neat base 90 attack to run drill peck with, but then you'd have to split EVs. If Lightningrod Zapdos gets Heat wave and/or Roost as DW moves, then we'll be golden, but nothings certain.

What do you guys think? If Zapdos could only get 1 of the following from DW:

Heat wave
Extrasensory
Metal Sound
Signal Beam
Roost

What would be the best? (this is all speculation, just to clarify. We don't even know if/ when DW Zapdos will be released, or if it will even get Special moves. Arceus didn't, so why should Zapdos, right?)
Click to expand...

Roost would obviously be the most useful in any case (barring Choice sets of course), but Heat Wave would be nice coverage... (Scizor comes to mind)

But of course, you could just send over your 4th gen one with all of these moves already
 
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