CAP 11 CAP 11 - Part 7b - Secondary Ability Poll

[Fuzznip]

Four options to choose from, most of which are more flavorful than competitive because we don't need a second competitively useful ability. Remember the one rule if you're posting:

• Don't post saying "I voted for ability X." Put some substance into your post.

Insomnia: Prevents sleep.

Lightningrod: All Electric-type attacks hit this Pokémon.

Inner Focus: Prevents flinching.

Steadfast: Speed is boosted one stage when flinched.

Our CAP so far:

Name: Perfect Mate

General Description: Pick a good-but-not-great OU pokemon, and design the perfect teammate for it, similar to the way Celebi & Heatran, or Blissey & Skarmory complement each other so well on competitive teams.

Justification:
This would allow us to explore in detail how synergy between two pokemon can be achieved, because currently there are only a few perfect teammates in OU. And depending on the base pokemon we choose to give a "perfect mate", we can open a new niche in the metagame based around the efficient pairing.
The niche we create will be inherently tied to an existing pokemon in the metagame, which should provide a natural limitation to prevent this concept from being broken or "too different" from standard OU.

Questions To Be Answered:

• Is the base pokemon's usefulness (and usage) in the metagame increased as a result of having a "perfect mate"?
• What strategies are more effective for the base pokemon, as a result of having a perfect teammate?
• What are the most effective aspects of the new pokemon, for purposes of making a great teammate with the base pokemon?
• Is the new pokemon viable in the metagame without the base pokemon as a teammate

Typing: Fighting/Dark
Stat Spread: 90 HP / 85 Atk / 80 Def / 105 SpA / 80 SpD / 110 Spe
Primary Ability: Volt Absorb

Happy voting.

 

[FlareBlitz]

Voted for Insomnia because it is the only ability in this slate with at least vague competitive merit.

 

[Jebus McAzn]

I've changed my mind from Lightningrod to Inner Focus. If we're going to have an ability that nobody uses, at least make it somewhat useful. Inner Focus stops flinchhax (and while Steadfast gives us speed boosts, I feel it'd be a bit wrong for this Pokemon). Insomnia isn't useful since not that many sleep moves get aimed at Kiss (instead opting for paralysis). I'd support an outcome of either Lightningrod or Inner Focus though.

 

[DougJustDoug]

I voted Lightningrod, because it is competitively equivalent to No Secondary Ability, and will be the first time CAP has ever given a "pure flavor ability". I also completely agree with tennisace's post in the ability thread -- By voting for an ability that is purely flavor, we are actually making a competitive decision for this pokemon.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

LightningRod has the best flavour synergy with VoltAbsorb and, let's face it, nobody's gonna put anything but VoltAbsorb on CAP 11 anyway, so, in lieu of no ability at all, I choose LightningRod.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

Lightningrod is the best option here to set a precedent for flavor abilities for all CAPs henceforth. Like Doug and tennis have said before me, by choosing an ability based only in flavor, we are making a competitive decision for our CAP. This is something that we need to not be afraid of; flavor abilities are just like flavor moves in movepools.

 

[TubaKing]

Wow. One vote for each thus far.
I voted for Insomnia because it has the most practical application of the four while still adding some "flavor". Lightningrod is cute, but has no competitive viability whatsoever.
Steadfast and Inner Focus are okay too. Steadfast did not get my vote because we really don't need to be making CAP11 more broken by giving him an ability that can boost his already great Speed. Inner Focus would be good, but I'd rather prevent 100% chance of sleep from the likes of Breloom rather than the 60% chance of flinch hax from Jirachi. I don't imagine CAP11 will appreciate taking Togekiss's STAB super-effective Air Slashes whether flinch hax is taken into account or not.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Voted for Insomnia because it is the only ability in this slate with at least vague competitive merit.

but does it matter when you are never going to run that ability?

I don't wanna start an argument, but can you tell me honestly that you'd ever use ANY of the options we have for a secondary ability over VoltAbsorb?

 

[Buffalo_Wings]

Wouldn't it make more sense to wait until after the art polls if we're voting flavour abilities? (Like in the height, weight, prevos etc. stage) Lightning rod is complete anti-flavour for my design at least (haha selfish), so I think Inner Focus would be better flavour-wise since it could easily apply to almost everyones design.

 

[NTT]

Voted Lightning Rod seeing as it's the equivalent of No Secondary Ability, and none of the others actually add to the concept in any meaningful way.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Wouldn't it make more sense to wait until after the art polls if we're voting flavour abilities? (Like in the height, weight, prevos etc. stage) Lightning rod is complete anti-flavour for my design at least (haha selfish), so I think Inner Focus would be better flavour-wise since it could easily apply to almost everyones design.

However, I do agree that when choosing a 2 ̊ that is nothing but pure flavour, it would make sense to wait until the artwork is done for the pokemon (or at least the finalists have been decided
That having been said, in this case, PART of that flavour has already BEEN decided: by giving the pokemon VoltAbsorb, any flavour which would encompass volt absorb SHOULD also encompass Lightning Rod

 

[Umbreon Dan]

the competitive decision - no secondary ability - has already been made. the only question in this poll is "which colour of nsa do you like better?"

as such, i don't really think it matters which way you vote; nobody's going to agree and there really isn't much to go on. i guess i like lightningrod.

buffalo wings - i completely agree and i've said so in #cap

 

[doominic77]

i voted Inner Focus because it's an almost mono-fighting type ability and that fits with our pokemon.

looks as if lightningrods gonna win but thats ok cause this ability's for flavor only anyway

:D good job on CAP 11 so far

 

[banshee_beat]

I voted Lightningrod for the sake of the artists. I saw a lot of them incorporating some sort of absorption of electricity in their designs because of the decision to include Volt Absorb on CAP11. Because Lightningrod also deals with absorption of electricity, and all of the abilities listed are nearly worthless as compared to Volt Absorb, I casted my vote accordingly.

 

[FimPhym]

Wouldn't it make more sense to wait until after the art polls if we're voting flavour abilities? (Like in the height, weight, prevos etc. stage) Lightning rod is complete anti-flavour for my design at least (haha selfish), so I think Inner Focus would be better flavour-wise since it could easily apply to almost everyones design.

This is exactly what I expressed the yesterday. Artists bend over backwards to accommodate mechanics, why dictate arbitrary flavour for them to conform to, when it'd be so easy to do it the other way around?

No vote, because "arbitrarily dictated flavour ability" is not the same as 'No secondary ability', neither of which are the same as 'Flavour ability'.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

Wouldn't it make more sense to wait until after the art polls if we're voting flavour abilities? (Like in the height, weight, prevos etc. stage) Lightning rod is complete anti-flavour for my design at least (haha selfish), so I think Inner Focus would be better flavour-wise since it could easily apply to almost everyones design.

I want to emphasize this point for a moment. Volt Absorb was chosen as the primary ability for competitive reasons alone, and the artists could have easily seen this as the discussion unfolded and gone: "Wow, maybe my design should accommodate this somehow!" Many artists have done this and posted justifications for it in their finals submissions. Similarly, Lightningrod has the exact same flavor as Volt Absorb (an electric affinity on a non-Electric Pokemon) and so can be justified in an identical manner. It adds no new layers of flavor to the artistic thread (unless you really want it to by interpreting the effects of the ability incredibly literally) that you could not have already had ample time to adjust for. All of the other abilities make sense for the typing of the CAP, and therefore should make sense on any properly designed art concept for the CAP.

There are two things that happen at this part of the CAP process, the abilities and the art, and ideally both of these things would be done at the exact same time. They affect each other. However, we as a community do not have the luxury of running them both simultaneously due to the nature of the polling, so we have to select which one comes first. Because abilities come in two parts (primary and secondary), the art thread is allowed to carry on during the duration of the ability discussion and voting so that art concepts can evolve to adjust for the decisions made in the ability stage.

Many artists might take this as unfair or unjustified, but no matter what we do, one of these parts of the process has to come first. Each of them has an effect upon the other, but ultimately, only one has any relevance to the competitive result of a CAP project, the abilities. Abilities are decided first and then the pure flavor of art comes afterward. Remember, guys -

By voting for an ability that is purely flavor, we are actually making a competitive decision for this pokemon

 

[tennisace]

I voted for Lightningrod aka No secondary ability. By giving this Pokemon a secondary ability useful in any way, shape, or form, you are straying from the concept by some amount, since Volt Absorb embodies the spirit of the concept, as I've said before. In addition, a flavor ability is a competitive choice because it is equivalent to no ability.

 

[banshee_beat]

"Wow, maybe my design should accommodate this somehow!" Many artists have done this and posted justifications for it in their finals submissions. Similarly, Lightningrod has the exact same flavor as Volt Absorb (an electric affinity on a non-Electric Pokemon) and so can be justified in an identical manner.

What RD said is perfect. Artists had ample time to incorporate Volt Absorb, so Lightningrod should already be incorporated. Volt Absorb and Lightningrod are the same flavor-wise. They both involve absorbing electricity. Thus, because competitive value trumps flavor in CAP, and we already decided Volt Absorb for competitive value, the "electric flavor" has already been decided.

Lightningrod will provide no further difficulties for the artists whatsoever.

 

[STEELDRAGON]

I voted Insomnia because it's arguably best competitive ability out of the 4. Most of the other potential secondary abilities won't really do a thing, and Insomnia will help out against Roserade, Breloom and the other Sleep inducing pokemon. Lightingrod may fit well, with Volt absorb, however it does absolutely nothing aside from from it's merit in double battles.

 

[Deck Knight]

Voted for Inner Focus.

There has been some discussion that perhaps a Lead would be beneficial to Togekiss, and Inner Focus' ability to avoid flinch combined with T-M Taunt could make CAP11 an exceptional lead for keeping Stealth Rock off the field. Inner Focus encourages this purpose but is still sufficiently inferior to Volt Absorb that I do not see it being a major distraction.

As far as flavor, Inner Focus is largely internal. Unless someone can explain to me with Dragonite, Alakazam, Crobat, and Lucario have in common...

 

[FimPhym]

I want to emphasize this point for a moment. Volt Absorb was chosen as the primary ability for competitive reasons alone, and the artists could have easily seen this as the discussion unfolded and gone: "Wow, maybe my design should accommodate this somehow!" Many artists have done this and posted justifications for it in their finals submissions. Similarly, Lightningrod has the exact same flavor as Volt Absorb (an electric affinity on a non-Electric Pokemon) and so can be justified in an identical manner. It adds no new layers of flavor to the artistic thread (unless you really want it to by interpreting the effects of the ability incredibly literally) that you could not have already had ample time to adjust for. All of the other abilities make sense for the typing of the CAP, and therefore should make sense on any properly designed art concept for the CAP.

Risking dusk has made the mistake of believing that all of the artists involved are only as creative as he is, and no more. Simply because one person cannot imagine a design that is both appropriate to this CAP and does not match these prescribed abilities, does not mean that a sufficiently brilliant artist will not do exactly that.

Furthermore, no secondary ability inherently allows for a greater range of flavour than does lightning rod. This is not a controversial point, but simple fact. The set of all possible designs for CAP11 contains a subset for all possible CAP 11 designs that match lightning rod. Why go with the subset, when the ability is specifically not for competitive use?

People need to understand a key difference between artists adapting to competitively necessary skills, and skills that are competitively equivalent to 'No secondary ability'.

 

[Wyverii]

I highly disagree with all the sentiments here saying that a flavour ability from this slate does not affect the artists.

First of all, many artists could have incorperated some imaginative ways of coping with Volt Absorb that does not nessessarily mesh with Lightning Rod. Please remember that Lightning Rod does not grant immunity to electric attacks and also attracts them unlike Volt Absorb. You can just handwave it off but that just makes the flavour look sloppy and uncordinated, I mean it was bad enough just with the one bizarre ability.

As for the other abilities along with having some competitive edge, no matter how small, also do not nessessarily mesh with concepts completely. Even if there are no current concepts that would have problems with them potential concepts could be stunted and cut off.

I guess at the end of the day what i'm trying to say is that by picking a flavour ability you're limiting the more limitless imaginations of those who are putting a face to this project. You're choking the more zany and unusual ideas from ever getting to the final stretch and making it harder for those who kindly give up some of their time to make some amazing artwork for this project. It just makes me so sad.

Edit: please be aware that this does not mean i'm arguing against volt absorb. It's nothing of the sort, it's a competitive ability which rules over all flavour decisions. I'm arguing for these flavour abilities being picked with no option to have none.

 

[Jevrath]

Voted for Lightning Rod for two reasons. The first of which is the fact that it is the least competitively viable ability in singles battles. The second is the fact that Lightening Rod fits the concept the best as far as double battles goes. Now I know that double battles aren't able to be done right now but I assume that all the CAPs are going to be taken over to SB2 in the future.

 

[Umbreon Dan]

I voted for Lightningrod aka No secondary ability. By giving this Pokemon a secondary ability useful in any way, shape, or form, you are straying from the concept by some amount, since Volt Absorb embodies the spirit of the concept, as I've said before. In addition, a flavor ability is a competitive choice because it is equivalent to no ability.

a vote for lightningrod is not a vote for no secondary ability. all of the options in this poll are equivalent to no secondary ability, and there's no option to vote for a secondary ability that actually does something competitively. that means from a competitive standpoint, no secondary ability has already won. a vote for lightningrod is just a vote for lightningrod, which is not a competitive vote.

i would have voted for nsa anyway, but i'm just saying - this is not a competitive poll. we are not making a competitive decision in this thread.

 

[Ray Jay]

I voted Lightning Rod. This is both competitively pleasing and fair, as it is the equivelant of (for now) nsa, but also competitively accurate (most Pokemon that make use of an absorbtion ability have either nsa or competitively useless counterpart... think Poliwrath/Quagsire and Damp, Houndoom and Early Bird, Rapidash and Run Away, Lanturn and Illuminate). This makes Lightning Rod seem like the best choice to me.