Original post now deleted since RMT has served its purpose. thanks for the suggestions guys!
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The Legend of Pokemon: The Unkillable Snorlax
- Thread starter honchkro13
- Start date
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I really like how creative this team is. That Snorlax can really tank some hits if it gets set up. I am actually a big fan of Conkeldurr because his guts boosted Drain Punch will KO T-tar though a chople berry. However, if you are going for more special bulk Hitmontop would probably be a better choice.
How about Scizor instead of Politoed? Scizor beats T-tar and walls Ferrothorn.
Scizor @Flight Gem
252 HP/252 Atk/4 SpD
-Bullet Punch
-Bug Bite
-Acrobatics
-Protect
This set allows you to handle to the Pokemon you mentioned as threats and gives you another option to hit fighting types that still give Snorlax trouble.
How about Scizor instead of Politoed? Scizor beats T-tar and walls Ferrothorn.
Scizor @Flight Gem
252 HP/252 Atk/4 SpD
-Bullet Punch
-Bug Bite
-Acrobatics
-Protect
This set allows you to handle to the Pokemon you mentioned as threats and gives you another option to hit fighting types that still give Snorlax trouble.
What I loved about running Conkeldurr last year was the fact that people expect Protect on it. It can be risky at times but I found that running Bulk Up worked really well! When they predict Conkeldurr's Protect they don't want to target it, giving you a chance to Bulk Up. However, not having Protect can obviously have it's weaknesses.
Seems like intimidate hitmontop might give you some trouble as well, fighting gem boosted close combat does a good junk of your health.
Regular damage 156 170 186
Is for a fighting gem boosted CC on + 3 snorlax. Out of 235 health. And then he'd just kill you the next turn.
~~I don't know how it would work, but if hitmontop used fake-out on Whimsicott would snatch still go off?~~
I also like the Scizor idea, you would be able to switch him into oncoming Psychic attacks aimed at Conckle or hitmontop(If you switch them). Though Metagross is also an option and he comes with arguably better typing.
I also would like to suggest Thundurus or Zapdos over Raikou. Thundurus can paralyze threats with priority as well as use a fast thunderbolt. HP flying/Ice with any kind of gem. Zapdos gives you heat wave for more coverage and access to tailwind.
Zapdos
Thundurus
You might want to think about Reuniclus over Cresselia, for better coverage and being able to hit harder.
Reuniclus
Just a few suggestions.
Regular damage 156 170 186
Is for a fighting gem boosted CC on + 3 snorlax. Out of 235 health. And then he'd just kill you the next turn.
~~I don't know how it would work, but if hitmontop used fake-out on Whimsicott would snatch still go off?~~
I also like the Scizor idea, you would be able to switch him into oncoming Psychic attacks aimed at Conckle or hitmontop(If you switch them). Though Metagross is also an option and he comes with arguably better typing.
I also would like to suggest Thundurus or Zapdos over Raikou. Thundurus can paralyze threats with priority as well as use a fast thunderbolt. HP flying/Ice with any kind of gem. Zapdos gives you heat wave for more coverage and access to tailwind.
Zapdos
Zapdos @ Electric Gem Trait: Pressure
EVs: 134 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 120 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Heat Wave
- Tailwind/Hp [Ice]
- Detect
EVs: 134 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 120 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Heat Wave
- Tailwind/Hp [Ice]
- Detect
Thundurus
Thundurus @ Electric Gem/Flying Gem Trait: Prankster
EVs: 252 Hp/252 SAtk ** 252 SAtk/252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave
- Hp [Ice]/Hp [Flying]
- Protect
EVs: 252 Hp/252 SAtk ** 252 SAtk/252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave
- Hp [Ice]/Hp [Flying]
- Protect
You might want to think about Reuniclus over Cresselia, for better coverage and being able to hit harder.
Reuniclus
Reuniclus @ Life orb
Trait: Magic Guard
EVs: 172 HP / 28 Def / 252 SpA / 56 SpD
Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd)
- Trick Room
- Psychic/Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball/Protect
Trait: Magic Guard
EVs: 172 HP / 28 Def / 252 SpA / 56 SpD
Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd)
- Trick Room
- Psychic/Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball/Protect
Just a few suggestions.
Admiral Kuzan
formerly MavsObbession
Congrats on doing well on your very first VGC! Now, let's what I can help with!
Metagross is extremely useful for taking out Tyranitar, the biggest threat to this team. Meteor Mash has a chance to hit Tyranitar for more than 2/3 of its health, while Bullet Punch gives Metagross a chance to hit it for more than 1/3 of its health. Basically, go for the Meteor Mash on Tyranitar, then finish it off with Bullet Punch. Metagross is also useful for TR. Here's a good set for Metagross to counter TTar in Trick Room:
Metagross (Tyranitar Counter)
I did the calcs; here's how much damage the moveset will do to Tyranitar:
Tyranitar (Max HP)
Bullet Punch: 34.2% - 40.6%
Meteor Mash: 83.7% - 99.5%
Earthquake: 55.9% - 66.3%
The problem I see is that Sandstorm teams will wreck your team. I suggest you use Hitmontop > Conkeldurr, like you said. Hitmontop can Intimidate common Tyranitar and Excadrill leads, and CC without a boost can OHKO TTar (unless Tyranitar is carrying a Chople Berry), or even Excadrill. Hitmontop and Cresselia have great offensive and defensive synergy, they're a very formidable lead. BTW, most Intimidate Support Hitmontops use this set:
Hitmontop (Intimidate Support)
Sucker Punches are useful for finishing off opposing Latios and Chandelures.
Cresselia, by the way, doesn't need a Mental Herb; taunters are VERY uncommon in this year's VGC compared to last year's VGC. Instead give her a Sitrus Berry to keep her on the field longer. You also have the option to give Cresselia a ChestoRest moveset, if you want.
Raikou doesn't really need a Lum Berry, I honestly don't think people will attempt to cripple him that often. Instead, give him an Air Balloon. EQ's from nearly any common VGC pokemon will OHKO Raikou all day, but with Air Balloon support, you won't have to worry about that.
Zapdos is very useful with access to Heat Wave, just because your Pokemon are weak to Ferrothorn. You also have the option of giving Raikou Hidden Power [Fire] instead of Hidden Power [Ice] so you can take down Ferrothorn. Zapdos can also use Thunderbolt and HP Ice; it could also be a nice addition to your team.
Hope I helped!
Metagross is extremely useful for taking out Tyranitar, the biggest threat to this team. Meteor Mash has a chance to hit Tyranitar for more than 2/3 of its health, while Bullet Punch gives Metagross a chance to hit it for more than 1/3 of its health. Basically, go for the Meteor Mash on Tyranitar, then finish it off with Bullet Punch. Metagross is also useful for TR. Here's a good set for Metagross to counter TTar in Trick Room:
Metagross (Tyranitar Counter)
Metagross @ Occa Berry
Trait: Clear Body
EV's: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
- Meteor Mash
- Bullet Punch
- Earthquake
- Protect
Trait: Clear Body
EV's: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
- Meteor Mash
- Bullet Punch
- Earthquake
- Protect
I did the calcs; here's how much damage the moveset will do to Tyranitar:
Tyranitar (Max HP)
Bullet Punch: 34.2% - 40.6%
Meteor Mash: 83.7% - 99.5%
Earthquake: 55.9% - 66.3%
The problem I see is that Sandstorm teams will wreck your team. I suggest you use Hitmontop > Conkeldurr, like you said. Hitmontop can Intimidate common Tyranitar and Excadrill leads, and CC without a boost can OHKO TTar (unless Tyranitar is carrying a Chople Berry), or even Excadrill. Hitmontop and Cresselia have great offensive and defensive synergy, they're a very formidable lead. BTW, most Intimidate Support Hitmontops use this set:
Hitmontop (Intimidate Support)
Hitmontop @ Fighting Gem
Trait: Intimidate
EV's: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant: (+Atk, -SpA)
- Fake Out
- Close Combat
- Sucker Punch
- Detect
Trait: Intimidate
EV's: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant: (+Atk, -SpA)
- Fake Out
- Close Combat
- Sucker Punch
- Detect
Sucker Punches are useful for finishing off opposing Latios and Chandelures.
Cresselia, by the way, doesn't need a Mental Herb; taunters are VERY uncommon in this year's VGC compared to last year's VGC. Instead give her a Sitrus Berry to keep her on the field longer. You also have the option to give Cresselia a ChestoRest moveset, if you want.
Raikou doesn't really need a Lum Berry, I honestly don't think people will attempt to cripple him that often. Instead, give him an Air Balloon. EQ's from nearly any common VGC pokemon will OHKO Raikou all day, but with Air Balloon support, you won't have to worry about that.
Zapdos is very useful with access to Heat Wave, just because your Pokemon are weak to Ferrothorn. You also have the option of giving Raikou Hidden Power [Fire] instead of Hidden Power [Ice] so you can take down Ferrothorn. Zapdos can also use Thunderbolt and HP Ice; it could also be a nice addition to your team.
Hope I helped!
Why bold, that will lower the attack. Try relaxed nature, since metagross is pretty slow. Or try adamant.
Admiral Kuzan
formerly MavsObbession
@Ravix & @pokemaster649. Actually, Metagross has a base 70 speed, and even if you gave it 0 Spe IV's, there are some slower Pokemon than it. Tyranitar usually has lowered Speed to function well in TR. Metagross COULD be useful in TR though, but yeah, if Metagross is in Trick Room, use a Relaxed Nature.
thanks for the suggestions guys!
I'll definitely replace Raikou with Zapdos (also named Lanayru). Same moveset as listed except with Heat Wave as opposed to Quash to, well, quash those pesky Ferrothorns out of existence. Plus, the Flying type would give it a ground immunity (and charti berry would take care of the rock weakness), reducing a sand team weakness.
And it looks like I'll be replacing Conkeldurr with LD-Scervo the Hitmontop with (ability: Intimidate) Fake Out/Detect/Mach Punch (I don't like the defense drops from CC)/Sucker Punch.
And I really love the Scizor idea, El Scorcho! its practically everything I'm looking for: a TR sweeper, priority, Snorlax partner, as well as Tyranitar-slayer! plus, it'll go with my Skyward Sword theme, since I'd be using Moldarach the Scizor.
I'd rather stay away from Metagross. Mavs is right; using it would still leave my team vulnerable to sand teams.
I'll definitely replace Raikou with Zapdos (also named Lanayru). Same moveset as listed except with Heat Wave as opposed to Quash to, well, quash those pesky Ferrothorns out of existence. Plus, the Flying type would give it a ground immunity (and charti berry would take care of the rock weakness), reducing a sand team weakness.
And it looks like I'll be replacing Conkeldurr with LD-Scervo the Hitmontop with (ability: Intimidate) Fake Out/Detect/Mach Punch (I don't like the defense drops from CC)/Sucker Punch.
And I really love the Scizor idea, El Scorcho! its practically everything I'm looking for: a TR sweeper, priority, Snorlax partner, as well as Tyranitar-slayer! plus, it'll go with my Skyward Sword theme, since I'd be using Moldarach the Scizor.
I'd rather stay away from Metagross. Mavs is right; using it would still leave my team vulnerable to sand teams.
I have, but Intimidate is what puts Hitmontop over Scrafty for my team.
Admiral Kuzan
formerly MavsObbession
I usually run Cress with Trick Room only if I want to counter other TR teams. Zapdos is great because it can set up Tailwind, and Latios can also set up TW.
Admiral Kuzan
formerly MavsObbession
Hitmontop is the better choice when you're running Tailwind, but Scrafty is the better choice if you're running Trick Room. It all depends whether you want TR or Tailwind.
...where'd all this talk of Tailwind come from!? my team is a Trick Room team.
if DW Scrafty was released, I would use it in a heartbeat. but as it is, Hitmontop is better suited for combating sand teams and has higher attacking prowess. If I do use Hitmontop, I'll use Close Combat because I need the higher damage output.
if DW Scrafty was released, I would use it in a heartbeat. but as it is, Hitmontop is better suited for combating sand teams and has higher attacking prowess. If I do use Hitmontop, I'll use Close Combat because I need the higher damage output.
Admiral Kuzan
formerly MavsObbession
Scrafty's Dream World ability is Intimidate, but most people prefer the Moxie set in TR.
Admiral Kuzan
formerly MavsObbession
Yes, Hitmontop is the better choice, but tomorrow, I'll give a full fledged rate on TR teams. ;) Amoonguss is VERY useful in Trick Room, BTW. I suggest you use him.
just gotta say that I really appreciate everyone who's rated and given suggestions so far!
I think switching out Conkeldurr would be a good idea. Hitmontop is a great idea with its priority moves and such, not even giving two flips about TR or not. With life orb you can handle the sand tyrant with little to no problem. I've never had a lot of luck with Durr, and I think likability factors into that. That's another thing, use guys you LIKE. If you're using something that you just don't care for, you're not going to want to use it and your team falls to shambles because you're not useing it right.
Politoed is good because you can halt other weather, including Tyrant's sand, but it might just be better to no have any weather on your side, but infact maybe a Cloud-Nine. A Cursing Lickilicky can be about as tough to take out as Snorlax, but leaves you with another fighting weakness and seeing how common fighting moves are...But I guess if you see a weather team heading your way you leave Lax out for the match? Not only that, Lickilicky's potty mouth slows him down, making him even faster in a TR. The set I would go with would look like:
Careful/Adamant
(252hp/252a/6d)
~Power Whip
~Curse
~Hammer Arm
~Return
I know running without Protect is a little risky but the bulk keeps him around for a while. Trust me, I have a really hard time taking this sucker down. My friend I train against uses one similar to this set up (Can't remember the EVs he put in it), and both my weather teams have a painful time taking him down. Play with the EVs, see what stats you like. Curse helps a little, but it is a set up.
Of course the other Cloud-Nine guys are Golduck and DW Alteria, but I don't feel that either really fit in your team dynamic.
That's just a quick look from me. I need to see this team more in action. One battle against it is hardly a fair judge. Hope I helped at least a little. =) BTW, I do love the theme and names for your team. I love how intresting your team looks. That combo of guys I have almost no idea what you'll pull. Now I do, but looking at team preview I was like "...TR? Priority? Annoyer? WTFruit?" Froak was what threw me off because no one worked with the rain...minus maybe Big Kikwi because he takes even LESS damage from fire moves, but that's a technicality.
Politoed is good because you can halt other weather, including Tyrant's sand, but it might just be better to no have any weather on your side, but infact maybe a Cloud-Nine. A Cursing Lickilicky can be about as tough to take out as Snorlax, but leaves you with another fighting weakness and seeing how common fighting moves are...But I guess if you see a weather team heading your way you leave Lax out for the match? Not only that, Lickilicky's potty mouth slows him down, making him even faster in a TR. The set I would go with would look like:
Careful/Adamant
(252hp/252a/6d)
~Power Whip
~Curse
~Hammer Arm
~Return
I know running without Protect is a little risky but the bulk keeps him around for a while. Trust me, I have a really hard time taking this sucker down. My friend I train against uses one similar to this set up (Can't remember the EVs he put in it), and both my weather teams have a painful time taking him down. Play with the EVs, see what stats you like. Curse helps a little, but it is a set up.
Of course the other Cloud-Nine guys are Golduck and DW Alteria, but I don't feel that either really fit in your team dynamic.
That's just a quick look from me. I need to see this team more in action. One battle against it is hardly a fair judge. Hope I helped at least a little. =) BTW, I do love the theme and names for your team. I love how intresting your team looks. That combo of guys I have almost no idea what you'll pull. Now I do, but looking at team preview I was like "...TR? Priority? Annoyer? WTFruit?" Froak was what threw me off because no one worked with the rain...minus maybe Big Kikwi because he takes even LESS damage from fire moves, but that's a technicality.
Alright, I see plenty of opportunities to improve this team. I've seen plenty of teams like this, and while I hate them for not working on PO, they still function alright.
First thing to recommend is Chansey over Snorlax. Same typing, but much bulkier, gets Minimize, instant recovery, and Seismic Toss for reliable damage. I also suggest Taunt on Whimsicott, thanks to Perish Song shutting down this strategy very quickly. Some Psych Up users would also appreciate a spot on this team, being able to copy the stat changes passed by Whimsicott.
Yeah, that's about it, gl with this kind of team!
First thing to recommend is Chansey over Snorlax. Same typing, but much bulkier, gets Minimize, instant recovery, and Seismic Toss for reliable damage. I also suggest Taunt on Whimsicott, thanks to Perish Song shutting down this strategy very quickly. Some Psych Up users would also appreciate a spot on this team, being able to copy the stat changes passed by Whimsicott.
Yeah, that's about it, gl with this kind of team!
Use the pokemon that best fits what you want it to do, don't use weaker alternatives just because they look cool. If they serve a purpose, sure. But not otherwise. If you want to win, you have to play to win.
Chansey is a good suggestion but lacks crunch. so he'd have to make up for that somewhere.
Salamance might make a good replacement for Conkle, he carries intimidate as well as a very good move spread of Draco (Gem boosted), Heat Wave, Hydro Pump, protect. Checking physical threats and returning a faster Ko. As well as giving you some much needed special attack.
This pairs especially well with scizor, giving Salamance a mon that can switch out to take dragon and ice attacks and ko back with bug bite and bullet punch. Hitmontop also appreciates scizor support, it really just depends on what you think your team is weaker to.
Having taunt and encore together doesn't make the best use out of Whim. You also do not see perish song, almost anywhere, at all.
Also, he's not weak to Weather teams in general. Specifically Tyranitar is giving him problems. Sand teams are almost nonexistent and are actually very bad right now, so they aren't anything to worry about.
Terrakion might give you some problems though.
Chansey is a good suggestion but lacks crunch. so he'd have to make up for that somewhere.
Salamance might make a good replacement for Conkle, he carries intimidate as well as a very good move spread of Draco (Gem boosted), Heat Wave, Hydro Pump, protect. Checking physical threats and returning a faster Ko. As well as giving you some much needed special attack.
This pairs especially well with scizor, giving Salamance a mon that can switch out to take dragon and ice attacks and ko back with bug bite and bullet punch. Hitmontop also appreciates scizor support, it really just depends on what you think your team is weaker to.
Having taunt and encore together doesn't make the best use out of Whim. You also do not see perish song, almost anywhere, at all.
Also, he's not weak to Weather teams in general. Specifically Tyranitar is giving him problems. Sand teams are almost nonexistent and are actually very bad right now, so they aren't anything to worry about.
Terrakion might give you some problems though.
Admiral Kuzan
formerly MavsObbession
I do not recommend Chansey. She has a pathetic 5 base defense stat, and although her SpD stat is decent at 95, Chansey would be a waste of a slot in your team. Nearly and Physical move will OHKO her.
MurraMyrrh: hmm, the Lickilicky anti-weather idea's pretty interesting, but having another fighting weakness as well as no Protect is really unappealing. plus it feels rather redundant with Snorlax. using Lickilicky as opposed to Scizor really has me missing out on some great coverage and synergy as well. the only weather I've really had trouble with is sand. but even for those, the only thing that really stops me from defeating sand teams is the mighty T-rex Tyranitar itself. I'm glad you approve of the names and theme though :) I'm glad to hear that my team looks unpredictable from someone whose team confused the heck out of me in Team Preview
Ignitrua: Perish Song is virtually non-existent. the instant recovery of Chansey is wonderful, but the low physical defense even after Cotton Guard as well as its lack of offensive power and options (like Crunch) is a big letdown, especially since there's a time limit. some of my matches with Snorlax ran close to the timer, and that's WITH an offensive presence.
Ravix: if you mean a good replacement for Raikou, then yes, it'd be a good replacment. I need Hitmontop's CC, priority and Intimidate. However, I personally dislike Draco Meteor's power drop and Hydro Pump's shaky accuracy, so I'd rather stick with Zapdos.
Ignitrua: Perish Song is virtually non-existent. the instant recovery of Chansey is wonderful, but the low physical defense even after Cotton Guard as well as its lack of offensive power and options (like Crunch) is a big letdown, especially since there's a time limit. some of my matches with Snorlax ran close to the timer, and that's WITH an offensive presence.
Ravix: if you mean a good replacement for Raikou, then yes, it'd be a good replacment. I need Hitmontop's CC, priority and Intimidate. However, I personally dislike Draco Meteor's power drop and Hydro Pump's shaky accuracy, so I'd rather stick with Zapdos.
While I don't personally like Chansey either, I think you underestimate her physical bulk, which lets her survive even many Fighting attacks. For instance, a Close Combat from standard Infernape only does 57% - 67%.