Formula 1 2012

DHR-107

Robot from the Future
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I went through the stats, and I don't think a driver has *ever* been so low in the championship after winning a Grand Prix.... Fisi was close in 2003... He ended up 12th in very uncompetitive Jordan. Even Panis ended up higher in 1996 with that horribly race at Monaco as his sole victory.

Seems pretty diabolical you can win a Grand Prix but only end up 15th :P
 
That really puts Maldonado's abilities into question; the win can easily be perceived as a fluke. Oh yes, since Hulkenburg is leaving Force India for Sauber, would that mean Adrian Sutil will return? It's either him or Kobayashi for the 2nd seat in Force India... I also want Robert Kubica to return, he was one of the more capable drivers on the grid and that freak accident before the start of the 2011 season was most unfortunate.
 
Bottas has been confirmed at Williams, leaving Senna with no drive at the moment for 2013.

I don't think the win was really a fluke, I think Maldonado outperformed Senna this year. He was light years ahead in qualifying, and in the races he just seemed to be like a 2011 Hamilton clone, just putting himself in the wrong places, but he showed more raw speed. I think another season should tame him a bit more and I think he will finally put those quali performances to good use. I do think he's a bit of a cock, though.

I heard about Sutil for Force India, I wouldn't mind seeing that. Though I think Di Resta is seriously in trouble then, because Sutil was pretty good before and if he is seriously on par with Di Resta then I don't think a top team will come calling with all the talent coming through at the moment.

On the Raik/Grosjean debate... Grosjean actually outqualified Raikkonen 6-2 in the first eight races. He's definitely quick, but I think Raikkonen got better as the year went on and Grosjean went backwards. Next year is going to be a big year for him, he can't afford to drop behind Raikkonen like he did in the middle of this year.
 
I really hope Sutil gets the seat... but then again test driver Jules Bianchi is a fierce contender and most people would think he deserves a chance so yeah :/
I was half hoping that Susie Wolff would get the seat in F1 instead of Valtteri Bottas, if only because I want to see a female F1 driver for the first time in over 3 decades.
 
I heard rumours about this straight after the Grand Prix, but apparently Ferrari are considering a protest against Sebastian Vettel. It's the BBC and they tend to be surprisingly good now and then (though still pretty poor in general, lol), but apparently Alonso is pushing Ferrari to protest against Vettel's overtake on Vergne under apparent yellow flags. Adding 20s to his race time would demote Vettel to 8th, losing the championship by a single point.

I can't see anything coming of it though. Although the FIA "refused to confirm whether it was investigating" (which suggests they are considering it), I doubt they will punish Vettel because of the potential bad publicity tbh. They also only have until 30th November, apparently.
 

DHR-107

Robot from the Future
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That really puts Maldonado's abilities into question; the win can easily be perceived as a fluke. Oh yes, since Hulkenburg is leaving Force India for Sauber, would that mean Adrian Sutil will return? It's either him or Kobayashi for the 2nd seat in Force India... I also want Robert Kubica to return, he was one of the more capable drivers on the grid and that freak accident before the start of the 2011 season was most unfortunate.
I believe Hamilton said before that Kubica was the only man he was scared of getting into a top car. Everyone else he thought he could handle (And to a degree he has) but Kubica scared him :o Pretty big words for a World Champ to say in all honesty.

F1 could be very different right now if Kubica didn't have his crash...

I don;t think Sutil will come back to be honest. And Eddie Jordan has sources that say Senna is going to Caterham to kick either Petrov of Kovvy out of their seat.
 
that appeal, Ferrari have a case as that video shows clearly that Vettel did the pass under the Yellow zone, not a green.
why would it be bad publicitiy? the right call gets made, as crap as it would be it is still the right call.
 
I heard rumours about this straight after the Grand Prix, but apparently Ferrari are considering a protest against Sebastian Vettel. It's the BBC and they tend to be surprisingly good now and then (though still pretty poor in general, lol), but apparently Alonso is pushing Ferrari to protest against Vettel's overtake on Vergne under apparent yellow flags. Adding 20s to his race time would demote Vettel to 8th, losing the championship by a single point.

I can't see anything coming of it though. Although the FIA "refused to confirm whether it was investigating" (which suggests they are considering it), I doubt they will punish Vettel because of the potential bad publicity tbh. They also only have until 30th November, apparently.
As a Vettel fan, I'm really hoping that the outcome of the Championship does not change... after all, unlike Alonso he does not have to rely on team orders; I pity Massa for being treated like that, at least Webber gets some respect.

I believe Hamilton said before that Kubica was the only man he was scared of getting into a top car. Everyone else he thought he could handle (And to a degree he has) but Kubica scared him :o Pretty big words for a World Champ to say in all honesty.

F1 could be very different right now if Kubica didn't have his crash...

I don;t think Sutil will come back to be honest. And Eddie Jordan has sources that say Senna is going to Caterham to kick either Petrov of Kovvy out of their seat.
I really hope Senna does NOT get the seat, I prefer both Petrov and Kovalainen... but that's just me. If they do decide to kick out Petrov then that's just bull, he was the guy who helped Caterham snatch 10th place in the Constructor's Championship from Marussia at the last possible moment by overtaking Charles Pic for 11th place. Speaking of Kovalainen, I can see Perez ending up like him... they both didn't do THAT well in their original teams (Sauber for Perez and Renault for Kovalainen) but for whatever reason got a contract offer from one of the most prestigious teams (McLaren) only to have a mediocre season later on and drive for a bottom ranking team... if Perez can prove me wrong then be my guest, but he only scored points in roughly a third of all the races in the 2012 season (7 out of 20) and I find it most unfair that he gets a seat at McLaren while Kobayashi is most likely getting booted out of F1; it's not that Perez totally wiped the floor with Kobayashi, Perez only got slightly more points than him (66 to 60).
 

Coronis

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So there is only one spare seat with a decent team (FI) if I am correct? Sutil, Kobayashi, Senna.. Ugh I really hope to see Kovalainen getting a better seat next year but I don't see it happening. He outperformed Petrov pretty consistently... and was with Glock this race before a poor pitstop, and Glock's crash with Vergne. Its unfortunate that some drivers with real talent are forced into these smaller teams or are out of F1 altogether.... would be nice if there were more spots but oh well. Am predicting Sutil to take the second FI seat and wouldn't be surprised if he outperforms Di Resta next year.
 
So there is only one spare seat with a decent team (FI) if I am correct? Sutil, Kobayashi, Senna.. Ugh I really hope to see Kovalainen getting a better seat next year but I don't see it happening. He outperformed Petrov pretty consistently... and was with Glock this race before a poor pitstop, and Glock's crash with Vergne. Its unfortunate that some drivers with real talent are forced into these smaller teams or are out of F1 altogether.... would be nice if there were more spots but oh well. Am predicting Sutil to take the second FI seat and wouldn't be surprised if he outperforms Di Resta next year.
Kovalainen didn't outperform Petrov by that much, in fact for the 2nd to 4th race Petrov finished ahead of him... the total tally is 11-8 (Not counting the first race where they both retired) and Petrov was the guy who helped Caterham regain 10th place by overtaking Charles Pic at the last possible moment for 11th place, not Kovalainen. Kovalainen may perform considerably better in qualifying than Petrov (13-7) but that's for the first half of the season, by the second half Petrov was on level with him. Let's not forget that Kovalainen got to drive for McLaren (One of the best teams) but yet he was consistently outperformed by Hamilton in those 2 seasons... he had his chance to prove himself but he has proven to be rather mediocre.
 

Coronis

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Kovalainen didn't outperform Petrov by that much, in fact for the 2nd to 4th race Petrov finished ahead of him... the total tally is 11-8 (Not counting the first race where they both retired) and Petrov was the guy who helped Caterham regain 10th place by overtaking Charles Pic at the last possible moment for 11th place, not Kovalainen. Kovalainen may perform considerably better in qualifying than Petrov (13-7) but that's for the first half of the season, by the second half Petrov was on level with him. Let's not forget that Kovalainen got to drive for McLaren (One of the best teams) but yet he was consistently outperformed by Hamilton in those 2 seasons... he had his chance to prove himself but he has proven to be rather mediocre.
I wouldn't say that he is mediocre, just because he has been outperformed by Hamilton, obviously one of the top 3 drivers of the past 5-6 years at least. Whilst in 2008 McLaren were one of the best teams, they weren't in 2009. Since then he has been pretty much the best driver within the bottom three teams, and usually is only being outperformed by Petrov due to issues outside of his control.

Would also love to see Kubica back... doubt it for next year though. 2014 may be a possibility, he was really quite talented, accident was such a shame.
 
I wouldn't say that he is mediocre, just because he has been outperformed by Hamilton, obviously one of the top 3 drivers of the past 5-6 years at least. Whilst in 2008 McLaren were one of the best teams, they weren't in 2009. Since then he has been pretty much the best driver within the bottom three teams, and usually is only being outperformed by Petrov due to issues outside of his control.

Would also love to see Kubica back... doubt it for next year though. 2014 may be a possibility, he was really quite talented, accident was such a shame.
True Hamilton may be a very good driver, but Hamilton-Kovalainen in 2008-2009 is pretty much the same as Alonso-Fisichella in 2005-2006. Kovalainen not only lost out to his teammate, he also lost to both the Ferrari and BMW Sauber drivers in 2008; not sure how he got to drive for McLaren in the first place... he's not that bad, but he's nothing special either. I can see Perez ending up just like him; the fact that he gets to drive for McLaren whereas Kobayashi is most likely getting booted out of F1 is most unfair because Perez only beat Kobayashi by a small margin (66 to 60) and only scored points in roughly a third of the season (7 out of 20 races); I hope Perez can prove me wrong... I also hope that Kubica returns soon, he is one of the better drivers and his immense talent never really had many opportunities to shine.
 

Coronis

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True Hamilton may be a very good driver, but Hamilton-Kovalainen in 2008-2009 is pretty much the same as Alonso-Fisichella in 2005-2006. Kovalainen not only lost out to his teammate, he also lost to both the Ferrari and BMW Sauber drivers in 2008; not sure how he got to drive for McLaren in the first place... he's not that bad, but he's nothing special either. I can see Perez ending up just like him; the fact that he gets to drive for McLaren whereas Kobayashi is most likely getting booted out of F1 is most unfair because Perez only beat Kobayashi by a small margin (66 to 60) and only scored points in roughly a third of the season (7 out of 20 races); I hope Perez can prove me wrong... I also hope that Kubica returns soon, he is one of the better drivers and his immense talent never really had many opportunities to shine.
With the pace Lotus had this year I could imagine Raikkonen/Kubica. That would be an excellent team.
 
With the pace Lotus had this year I could imagine Raikkonen/Kubica. That would be an excellent team.
That would be an exciting prospect, although Lotus would most likely retain Grosjean for 2013... although for 2014 it's another story.

Just for laughs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5-bblaS_TA
It appears that Maldonado and Grosjean have been crashing even before they joined F1... and since I don't speak a word of Spanish, I was like "Oppa Gangnam Style?" at 0:18.

These two as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yO8MdjqhFbQ and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qX7ugK_r7LE

On a more serious note, I still think Grosjean is better than Maldonando if only because he can score 3 podium finishes and a fastest lap in the whole of 2012... and barring his crashes, he was a consistent points scorer unlike Maldonado.
 

Coronis

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That would be an exciting prospect, although Lotus would most likely retain Grosjean for 2013... although for 2014 it's another story.

Just for laughs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5-bblaS_TA
It appears that Maldonado and Grosjean have been crashing even before they joined F1... and since I don't speak a word of Spanish, I was like "Oppa Gangnam Style?" at 0:18.

These two as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yO8MdjqhFbQ and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qX7ugK_r7LE

On a more serious note, I still think Grosjean is better than Maldonando if only because he can score 3 podium finishes and a fastest lap in the whole of 2012... and barring his crashes, he was a consistent points scorer unlike Maldonado.
Hahaha those videos were gold. I love that guys channel. In Hungary.. "he's actually made it through the first corner, no crashes and OH!!"

Yes, I have to agree about Grosjean, but I think in terms of raw speed, Maldonaldo is one of the top drivers out there, he just needs to not hit anyone, and he'll probably do very well. Of course, Williams will wait as long as it takes, what with the money from Venezuela, and the prospect of more wins.
 
wait? Webber was told to let Vettel through, so he had team orders as well :P

Maldonado is great. and i hope Kobayashi gets a seat, on his day he is immence.
 
wait? Webber was told to let Vettel through, so he had team orders as well :P

Maldonado is great. and i hope Kobayashi gets a seat, on his day he is immence.
He did? Must have slipped my mind... but at least it's not as dreadful as Alonso; who even got Massa to get a gearbox penalty -.- Apparently Alonso needs a teammate who either needs to be a slave to him or underperform (Fisichella, Piquet, Massa); that's the reason he left McLaren in 2007 because Hamilton could actually provide a challenge and he hated it... he accused Ron Dennis of favoritism towards Hamilton but that's the exact same treatment he revels in... I used to be a fan of him but after a while his antics totally turn me off.
 
I was a fan of Alonso until 2007ish, the time when I started to have my reservations about him... then when the truth about the whole Piquet crashing out of Singapore in 2008 came out that made me lose a considerable amount respect for him. The final straw came when Massa was totally belittled in Ferrari but yet puts up with it... I hope Massa can stand up for himself soon. It appears that there was nothing seemingly wrong with him in 2005-2006 because Fisichella didn't pose a threat at all but come to McLaren in 2007 and that is when his true colours started to show... he resents favouritism towards other drivers but that's exactly what he revels in from my perspective. Alonso fans are free to defend him and change my mind, but as of now my respect for him is rock-bottom; I was totally relieved Vettel won the Driver's Championship, at least Vettel doesn't expect Webber to lick his boots.
 

Coronis

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I was a fan of Alonso until 2007ish, the time when I started to have my reservations about him... then when the truth about the whole Piquet crashing out of Singapore in 2008 came out that made me lose a considerable amount respect for him. The final straw came when Massa was totally belittled in Ferrari but yet puts up with it... I hope Massa can stand up for himself soon. It appears that there was nothing seemingly wrong with him in 2005-2006 because Fisichella didn't pose a threat at all but come to McLaren in 2007 and that is when his true colours started to show... he resents favouritism towards other drivers but that's exactly what he revels in from my perspective. Alonso fans are free to defend him and change my mind, but as of now my respect for him is rock-bottom; I was totally relieved Vettel won the Driver's Championship, at least Vettel doesn't expect Webber to lick his boots.
If Massa is able to continue his recent form next year at Ferrari could be very interesting. He clearly hasn't been the same all the way back since his accident in Hungary 09. Alonso has never really had to deal with a competitive Massa before, I wonder what Ferrari would do if say Massa was outscoring Alonso at the beginning of next year.. and what Alonso would do too..
 

VKCA

(Virtual Circus Kareoky Act)
I know this is only marginally related to the topic at hand, but I'll ask anyways and a a mod can delete this if they want.

does anybody know which episode/season of top gear it was that had Vettel on as a guest?
 
If Massa is able to continue his recent form next year at Ferrari could be very interesting. He clearly hasn't been the same all the way back since his accident in Hungary 09. Alonso has never really had to deal with a competitive Massa before, I wonder what Ferrari would do if say Massa was outscoring Alonso at the beginning of next year.. and what Alonso would do too..
Knowing Alonso, he would probably throw a hissy fit and look for another team where he can make a slave of his teammate >_> I hope he can change the mindset of "I must be #1 all the time!" soon.
 
HRT have failed to make it to F1 2013... not that it will heavily impact the racing field but perhaps they should come up with a new points system now that there are only 22 and not 24 cars? I mean the top 10 finishes getting points for 24 cars is fair enough but I feel that it's a bit much if there are 22 cars; it's almost half the field. I feel that my own points system here (20-15-12-8-6-4-2-1) is decent enough but I wonder why they substantially increased the number of points a winner will have from 10 to 25 in 2010 only because there are 24 cars instead of 22 or 20 when they could just use (10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1) which is much simpler; now if they want to assess the drivers with the most points it won't be a fair comparison due to the considerable difference in the points awarded.
 

Coronis

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HRT have failed to make it to F1 2013... not that it will heavily impact the racing field but perhaps they should come up with a new points system now that there are only 22 and not 24 cars? I mean the top 10 finishes getting points for 24 cars is fair enough but I feel that it's a bit much if there are 22 cars; it's almost half the field. I feel that my own points system here (20-15-12-8-6-4-2-1) is decent enough but I wonder why they substantially increased the number of points a winner will have from 10 to 25 in 2010 only because there are 24 cars instead of 22 or 20 when they could just use (10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1) which is much simpler; now if they want to assess the drivers with the most points it won't be a fair comparison due to the considerable difference in the points awarded.
Yeah the different points systems have all been shown to give similar results, so in the end it doesn't really matter. Dunno how they came up with 25-18-15-12-10-8-6-4-2-1
 

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