Kangaskhanite Tiering Discussion [+Demographics Poll Added to OP]

[Mood4food77]

For those who say it's isn't easy to get mega kangaskhan to +2, well here's a little flowchart:

1. Can the opposing pokemon beat your Mega Kangaskhan? If yes, switch out. If no, go to step 2.
2. Does the opponent have a ghost on his team? If yes, don't use Power Up Punch. If no, use Power Up Punch.

It's that fucking simple.

 

[DaiGuren]

To be fair, a Ghost type counter has already failed its job if it's allowed Kang to get to +2. That said, Crunch still 2HKOs at +0 so Dusclops isn't a good counter at all regardless.

That's also something that's bothering me about MegaKhan. The fact that a Ghost type is needed in order to stop MegaKhan from getting a boost(which is almost a guaranteed sweep if MegaKhan is healthy) makes the decision very one-dimensional, in favor of MegaKhan user.

How and why? The opponent is almost always required to switch-in a Ghost "counter" everytime MegaKhan hits the field because if they don't, there's no stopping Khan. While the MegaKhan user is free to play around this fact and continue to gain momentum.

 

[jvl101993]

as to point three, what if he were to not attack, sending in an infernape with the other of the sustainer items(I forgot it's name at the moment) and close combat him out

infernape not being specific, it's just what po pped into my head

Then switch out to something that can take a hit from Infernape. And that thing better have LO, since Mega-Khan actually has a chance to survive CC.

252 Atk Infernape Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 338-398 (96.2 - 113.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Infernape Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 439-517 (125 - 147.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

It makes no sense for Mega-Khan to stay in on something that threatens it. It's not like it's 1 on 6. Mega-Khan has teammates it can go to.

 

[Edgar81539]

For those who say it's isn't easy to get mega kangaskhan to +2, well here's a little flowchart:

1. Can the opposing pokemon beat your Mega Kangaskhan? If yes, switch out. If no, go to step 2.
2. Does the opponent have a ghost on his team? If yes, don't use Power Up Punch. If no, use Power Up Punch.

It's that fucking simple.

You forget Step 3. If their ghost is fragil, stay like normal Kangashkan and get a free boost. Afterwards, kill with Sucker Punch/Crunch.

 

[JustLetMePlay]

For those who say it's isn't easy to get mega kangaskhan to +2, well here's a little flowchart:

1. Can the opposing pokemon beat your Mega Kangaskhan? If yes, switch out. If no, go to step 2.
2. Does the opponent have a ghost on his team? If yes, don't use Power Up Punch. If no, use Power Up Punch.

It's that fucking simple.

You might as well go the extra step and change step 2 to: "If yes, use crunch - no more counter."

 

[Edgar81539]

Then either switch out to something that can take a hit from Infernape.

252 Atk Life Orb Infernape Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kangaskhan: 439-517 (125 - 147.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

It makes no sense for Mega-Khan to stay in on something that threatens it. It's not like it's 1 on 6. Mega-Khan has teammates it can go to.

That's Kangashkan in normal version, btw. MegaKanga can actually SURVIVE that close combat, 252 Atk Infernape Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 338-398 (96.2 - 113.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO. This thing is THAT bulky.

 

[jvl101993]

That's Kangashkan in normal version, btw. MegaKanga can actually SURVIVE that close combat, 252 Atk Infernape Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 338-398 (96.2 - 113.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO. This thing is THAT bulky.

I forgot to do Mega-Khan, but you didn't put LO in your calc. I actually adjusted the BST on Kangaskhan to make it 105/125/100/60/100/100 for that calc.

I edited the Calc to put it on the original post. Numbers came out the same: clean OHKO with LO. But yeah: it is incredibly bulky.

 

[Mood4food77]

You might as well go the extra step and change step 2 to: "If yes, use crunch - no more counter."

well, there's this guy sableye who doesn't really mind taking a crunch at all but i would assume you would use crunch

 

[KztxL7]

Just because something potentially threatens it does not make it viable in OU. If that was the case then there would be no Ubers.

 

[Edgar81539]

well, there's this guy sableye who doesn't really mind taking a crunch at all but i would assume you would use crunch

Well, that's what are teammates for, right? You can simply switch Rotom-H on the WoW/Recover, Talonflame, Heatran, etc...

 

[Pokexpert]

This is also assuming you can get Alakazam in safely.[/quo

You're forgetting parental bond breaks the sash in the first place, Alakazam wouldn't even live a single turn.

Skill swap, reread it.

 

[KztxL7]

Skill swap, reread it.

And how exactly are you going to safely get that Gimmicky Alakazam in without taking in any damage to prevent the Sash being broken or having to Sacrifice something. In the end you're still using a Gimmicky pokemon just for the sake of MKhan and someone already showed it wouldn't be all that effective as it would die before doing any damage.

 

[Wisp]

Skill swap, reread it.

Why even have the sash then? You can't use specs because of skill swap so your only option is life orb, which i'm 99% sure wont OHKO with a life orb psychic even with parental bond. Zam is going to die in one hit regardless.

 

[SergantGold]

Because the person I quoted broke his quote which broke my quote I'm just going to put who I intend this message towards here:
To trickmasterj

]quote="jvl101993, post: 5057118, member: 46439"]Then switch out to something that can take a hit from Infernape.

252 Atk Life Orb Infernape Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kangaskhan: 439-517 (125 - 147.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

It makes no sense for Mega-Khan to stay in on something that threatens it. It's not like it's 1 on 6. Mega-Khan has teammates it can go to.

that's the point of this thread though, there are things which CAN potentially threaten it, given my thoughts as to why megakhan is still a viable ou

also the infernal contraption I'm using is temperamental[/quote]
1. Your quote is broken
1.5. Your broken quote broke my quote, so I'll just write who I'm quoting at the top of my post.
2. Something that is this powerful and can sweep ~90% of the game unhindered needs a lot of solid flat out counters to not be taken to Uber
3. Unless you made the worst misplay you possibly could have, whatever could threaten your Khan (I'll assume its unboosted) doesn't matter as you will almost always have at the minimum 2 teammates on the sidelines waiting to murder whatever what's to threaten you (ex. Sable he threatening to burn you? Slap that Heatran/Rotom-H/Chandy/any freaking fire type in there to take care of the problem and the incoming obvious switch in)
And I also want to say that this thread has been going in circles for a long time. It honestly should just be locked as I personally believe that this is less of a discussion and more of a cluster of people yelling at some random people waltzing in, beating a dead horse, and then going "All right I'm such a small minority I might as well shut up."

 

[LordRandomness]

Unlike the dick measuring contest dominating the space between our posts, this is a fantastic post both for its new point and its active demonstration. Yes, the opposing player isn't the greatest (not having Sash on his lead Scole, for instance) but it shows how easily three pokemon essentially become three Mega Kangas. Especially with Lunar Dance and Screens for status healing and megabulk.

Perhaps YOU could start purging this tumor of a thread?

I believe someone already has, as I've noticed a few posts going missing. That said, it's not THAT bad, at least everyone THINKS they're being constructive.

 

[Wisp]

the sash will still be likely needed to survive the one hit regardless

Losing the much needed extra damage just to maybe survive one turn isn't a very good counter in my book

 

[jvl101993]

that's the point of this thread though, there are things which CAN potentially threaten it, given my thoughts as to why megakhan is still a viable ou

Talonflame doesn't potentially threaten Blaziken. It actually threatens Blaziken, yet we're not un-banning that thing anytime soon. Mega-Khan is easily a viable OU mon. In fact, it's too viable. Are you telling me you will be able to consistently preserve your Infernape for the entire match? That you will switch in Infernape on Mega-Khan's Sucker Punch or after it has killed something? Infernape threatens as a CHECK. Switching in on PuP isn't a great option either. PuP + Sucker Punch deals 186 HP minimum, or 63.5% minimum on Infernape. Basically, if Infernape takes 26.6% prior damage (14.3% with SR), it will die from LO recoil, while Mega-Khan may have taken down 1 or more other Pokemon before since you were preserving Infernape. So you're basically forcing yourself to play 5-6 until Infernape can taken Mega-Khan down, when in that situation, it probably already has done its job.

 

[jvl101993]

Skill swap, reread it.

You're forgetting that if they don't choose Sucker Punch, Alakazam loses without having done anything.

You use Skill Swap, they use Return/Crunch, breaking your Sash.
You use Psychic/Focus Blast, they use Sucker Punch.

You're down a mon, they can switch and get Parental Bond back the next time they come out. Good job. You're down a Pokemon and have done no damage to Mega-Khan. This is a HORRIBLE strategy. You're better off getting one attack off on Mega-Khan than trying to be cute with a gimmick tactic.

 

[ColtCababa]

So I ran a calculation, and apparently, max Defense Sableye is only 3HKOed by Mega Kangaskhan's Crunch:

252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 121-144 (39.8 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Now I know that maximum Defense Sableye is significantly rare, but if such a scenario occurred, would Crunch be Mega Kangaskhan's best option against Sableye, and wouldn't Sableye be able to retaliate with Will-O-Wisp, or can Mega Kangaskhan still get past Sableye through conventional means? I apologize if there's something I'm missing here, this just had me wondering.

 

[RoboZygo]

I think that when there is discussion on banning certain mons, we should have a general 'no gimmick' rule. Discussion should involve bringing up VIABLE pokemon that are useful in situations than dealing with Mega Kanga

Examples:

Choice Scarf Heracross (Viable, and can check Kanga)
Infernape

Etc.

None of this skill swap foul play whatever the hell BS. Even bringing up Sable or Cofag makes my eyebrows raise because they're really not very good other than dealing with Kanga.

 

[Wisp]

252+ SpA Life Orb Parental Bond Alakazam Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Kangaskhan: 324-382 (92.3 - 108.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

You have 1 turn to get an attack off with Alakazam before dying to sucker punch, assuming everything works out perfectly, and the OHKO is still not guaranteed. This thing is a monster, and that's without any investments in bulk.

Edit: I even gave it a life orb, if you give it a sash you can't OHKO, period.

 

[trickmasterj]

that's the point of this thread though, there are things which CAN potentially threaten it, given my thoughts as to why megakhan is still a viable ou

also the infernal contraption I'm using is temperamental

1. Your quote is broken
2. Something that is this powerful and can sweep ~90% of the game unhindered needs a lot of solid flat out counters to not be taken to Uber
3. Unless you made the worst misplay you possibly could have, whatever could threaten your Khan (I'll assume its unboosted) doesn't matter as you will almost always have at the minimum 2 teammates on the sidelines waiting to murder whatever what's to threaten you (ex. Sable he threatening to burn you? Slap that Heatran/Rotom-H/Chandy/any freaking fire type in thlocked as I personally believe that this is less of a discussion and more of a cluster of people yelling at some random people waltzing in, beating a dead horse, and then going "All right I'm such a small minority I might as well shut up."[/quote]

Talonflame doesn't potentially threaten Blaziken. It actually threatens Blaziken, yet we're not un-banning that thing anytime soon. Mega-Khan is easily a viable OU mon. In fact, it's too viable. Are you telling me you will be able to consistently preserve your Infernape for the entire match? That you will switch in Infernape on Mega-Khan's Sucker Punch or after it has killed something? Infernape threatens as a CHECK. Switching in on PuP isn't a great option either. PuP + Sucker Punch deals 186 HP minimum, or 63.5% minimum on Infernape. Basically, if Infernape takes 26.6% prior damage (14.3% with SR), it will die from LO recoil, while Mega-Khan may have taken down 1 or more other Pokemon before since you were preserving Infernape. So you're basically forcing yourself to play 5-6 until Infernape can taken Mega-Khan down, when in that situation, it probably already has done its job.

I would like to apologize for my broken quotes, and maybe I like those odds, but there may not be one certain way to stop megakhan, but there are ways, some not practical, but may we should try to stop it with le ss conventional pokemon, there are plenty of unused mon that might hold the potential to do as such

 

[fish6067]

It's already been said to death but for what it's worth I believe mega-kang is just to powerful in the current OU environment and thus deserves to be banned. Despite being very predictable, it is still absurdly hard to stop with even the strongest defensive walls once it gets to +2. And power-up punch, which is in effect 70BP, does this. I use mega kangaskhan in my current team and my strategy is basically to attempt to weaken the opponent's team in general, especially their pokemon that could check mega-kang, and then send kanga out late game to finish up. Even if I am in an awful position after poor prediction and misplays, mega-kang still wins me matches due to his sheer power. It's scary, and imo too powerful for anything but ubers.

Once mega gengar and kanga have been cleared up from the PS servers, as the ban of kangaskhanite seems very likely, it will be fun to experiment with other megas who were initially overshadowed. Mawile, for example, I think could be a real threat in OU and many people will turn to him when kanga goes.

 

[Jaded_Hades]

To be fair, Physically defensive Mandibuzz can usually KO it with Foul Play after 2 PuP's or at least Whirlwind it out.

 

[Chou Toshio]

trickmasterj -- the problem with pushing that argument revolves on whether said "less conventional Pokemon" are able to handle the conditions of the metagame (whether they can actually win against enemies besides their intended target). Generally, the answer is "no". In the case of Mega Kang though, even the less conventional "counters" are all shaky at best, and generally are not hard for Kang to destroy-- never mind the rest of the metagame destroying them outright.

Jaded_Hades -- The Foul Play point is totally irrelevant because a +2 Kang will OHKO Mabdibuzz with Return...