Gen 6 The XY Ubers Viability Ranking Thread [Read Post #1000]

[Blue Jay]

This post might seem controversial, but I think that Xerneas should be dropped to A+ rank. Here's why:

1. Xerneas absolutely needs to use a power herb in order to use geomancy, but without life orb i feel like it doesn't hit hard enough...
2. Xerneas is easily revenge killed by arceus-normal and CB Scizor, which were very viable in gen 5 too. It also can't really get past mega gengar.
3. Xerneas suffers from 4 moveslot syndrome. Without thunder(bolt), it has no means of doing anything to Ho-oh (+2 geomancy doesn't 2hko), while brave bird is an easy OHKO with just a bit of prior damage. additionally, Ho-oh can easily Whirlwind it out. Lugia also completely walls non-Thunder(bolt) variants if sr isn't down, and guess what, Lugia can easily roost. However, xerneas really needs moonblast, focus blast and flash cannon to beat the most common threats
4. Xerneas can't really boost to +3 SpA/+3SpD/+3Spe, which might be crucial at times (i know it's situational, though)

A few things to correct here.

Gengar is the one that needs to watch out for Geomancy Xerneas, if Xerneas sets up safely a Thunder or Psyshock will blast Gengar to bits. The only way Gengar can handle Geomancy Xerneas is if it lacks moves that OHKO Gengar after a boost (and even then it will have to sacrifice itself to eliminate Xerneas, as Sludge Wave does not come close to a OHKO against +2 Xerneas), or if you somehow manage to prevent Xerneas from setting up at all, which is rather challenging to do.

Xerneas also does not need Flash Cannon for anything. It has awful coverage, middling Base Power and is actually weaker than Moonblast against opposing Xerneas due to both Pokemon's Fairy Aura boosting the power of Moonblast. Thunder(bolt), Focus Blast, Hidden Power Fire and Psyshock are the sensible options, but most targets for Psyshock are awful, rare Pokemon and Focus Blast and Hidden Power Fire overlap a good deal, so the 4MSS is not really that bad. Thunderbolt also accomplishes nothing against Lugia; in fact, because of how powerful Moonblast is, Ho-Oh and Heatran (which would be hit much harder by Focus Blast instead) are about the only Ubers viable Pokemon against which Thunderbolt is more powerful than Moonblast.

Furthermore, please acknowledge all of Xerneas' viable sets. It is rather versatile.

 

[orch]

Talonflame for C+

It's an excellent cleaner and super strong flying priority. However, it requires a quite bit of support to function well. It's an excellent mon on any spikes offense team tho. It OHKOS a lot of frail sweepers after sr which is very cool:

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Mewtwo Y: 315-372 (89.2 - 105.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Blaziken: 566-668 (188 - 221.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Darkrai: 256-303 (91.1 - 107.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

etc

 

[PROBLEMS]

why is arceus normal anything but S rank.. you can theorymon this on paper for as long as you like but honestly its still the most deadly sweeper in the game

 

[Blue Jay]

I personally no longer oppose Extremekiller Arceus for S rank. Most of my problem with it in S rank was to do with how the rank is defined, but now we have a precedent in Gengar of a Pokemon that really doesn't fit the definitions but was deemed simply potent enough to go in S rank, and perhaps it is time we redefine the rank.

 

[MMII]

why is arceus normal anything but S rank.. you can theorymon this on paper for as long as you like but honestly its still the most deadly sweeper in the game

I disagree

 

[Hack]

Anyway, move aggron off the list, or at least to d-rank whatever. It has a notable niche that it can phaze E-killer, but it lacks actual viable defensive synergy otherwise, very burn prone if you don't run rest and you can't afford running resttalk with the 4mss if you want to compress teamslots. I don't know why was on the list in the first place, I must have missed it when we did the initial one.

 

[DoABarrelRoll]

A few things to correct here.

Gengar is the one that needs to watch out for Geomancy Xerneas, if Xerneas sets up safely a Thunder or Psyshock will blast Gengar to bits.
I can't remember the last time I saw a Xerneas with thunder/psyshock. Most of them use Flash Cannon or maybe hp fire to kill Scizor, Genesect and Ferrothorn. hp fire fails to OHKO MGengar even at +2

The only way Gengar can handle Geomancy Xerneas is if it lacks moves that OHKO Gengar after a boost (and even then it will have to sacrifice itself to eliminate Xerneas, as Sludge Wave does not come close to a OHKO against +2 Xerneas), or if you somehow manage to prevent Xerneas from setting up at all, which is rather challenging to do.

Xerneas also does not need Flash Cannon for anything. It has awful coverage, middling Base Power and is actually weaker than Moonblast against opposing Xerneas due to both Pokemon's Fairy Aura boosting the power of Moonblast. Thunder(bolt), Focus Blast, Hidden Power Fire and Psyshock are the sensible options, but most targets for Psyshock are awful, rare Pokemon and Focus Blast and Hidden Power Fire overlap a good deal, so the 4MSS is not really that bad. Thunderbolt also accomplishes nothing against Lugia; in fact, because of how powerful Moonblast is, Ho-Oh and Heatran (which would be hit much harder by Focus Blast instead) are about the only Ubers viable Pokemon against which Thunderbolt is more powerful than Moonblast.
Both Ho
Furthermore, please acknowledge all of Xerneas' viable sets. It is rather versatile.

another irritating thing is that if something with roar/whirlwind (Skarmory) prevents it from sweeping, xerneas will rarely get a second chance to sweep.

A+ please

 

[Haruno]

another irritating thing is that if something with roar/whirlwind (Skarmory) prevents it from sweeping, xerneas will rarely get a second chance to sweep.

A+ please

Your post in bold is full of shit. Sorry.

Not to mention blue J has already adressed that xerneas has multiple viable sets and not just geoxern (which is pretty subpar) but you seem to not realize that. Tata

 

[blitzlefan]

another irritating thing is that if something with roar/whirlwind (Skarmory) prevents it from sweeping, xerneas will rarely get a second chance to sweep.

A+ please

Could i just ask what flash cannon even hits? It's weaker than a neutral moonblast when it's super effective and has pretty awful coverage.

 

[DoABarrelRoll]

Flash Cannon doesn't really hit anything, but it has been seen on 31% of all xerneas. Also tbh all sets have pretty much the same counters, be it the all-out attacker set, the defensive set or the geomancy set. Xerneas suffers from 4mss, gets only one chance to sweep and can't really get past bulky steel-types or heatran. Xerneas is indeed an amazing pokemon worthy of A+, but with those flaws I mentioned, I don't think it deserves S

 

[Haruno]

Flash Cannon doesn't really hit anything, but it has been seen on 31% of all xerneas. Also tbh all sets have pretty much the same counters, be it the all-out attacker set, the defensive set or the geomancy set. Xerneas suffers from 4mss, gets only one chance to sweep and can't really get past bulky steel-types or heatran. Xerneas is indeed an amazing pokemon worthy of A+, but with those flaws I mentioned, I don't think it deserves S

Ladder doesn't mean shit. The only hard stop to xern is aegis which no one is disputing. Other checks can be broken with the appropriate coverage and you're focusing entirely on its geo set which is meh in general

 

[Disaster Area]

You can even run a geomancy set that beats all of its counters, either with a coverage move [for basically anything bar aegi in theory] or run a certain spread that allows u to set up on extra threats [e.g. reflect chestorest sets up on scizor/bronzong/aegi/rachi]

Basically for a mixture of huge versatility, great typing, and sheer power, it deserves S rank.

 

[Aquasition]

Flash Cannon doesn't really hit anything, but it has been seen on 31% of all xerneas. Also tbh all sets have pretty much the same counters, be it the all-out attacker set, the defensive set or the geomancy set. Xerneas suffers from 4mss, gets only one chance to sweep and can't really get past bulky steel-types or heatran. Xerneas is indeed an amazing pokemon worthy of A+, but with those flaws I mentioned, I don't think it deserves S

Whoever is using flash cannon is not using GeoXern at full potential. It may be used a lot, yes, but is it being used at full potential? No. Anybody with half a brain will not run flash cannon, because moonblast will hit hard enough vs other fairies.

The only surefire counter is Aegislash. Most of the other pokemon are considered checks, as Xern could be potentially running a move to take them out. Poison-Types? Psyshock. Ho-oh? Thunder or Rock Slide. Heatran? Close Combat or Focus Blast. Scizor? HP fire. And support xerneas is meant to support the team via aromatherapy, and being an answer to non-raining Palkia while running another Arc-Form.

That one chance to sweep can simply be answered by not using that chance until the time is right.Also, note that most teams end up running a xern check BECAUSE of how threatening GeoXern is.

Finally, it's one of the few fairy-types usable in ubers. The only other choices are Fairyceus, and Sylveon, and they are most commonly used for support. Xerneas is most often used offensively, despite offensive Fairyceus being Used, as a CM user, and Support Xern existing.

 

[Cobalt314]

This may be deviating from the topic at hand, but I noticed that both Gengar are in S rank. Is Levitate Gengar as worthy of S rank as Shadow Tag Gengar?

 

[Haruno]

This may be deviating from the topic at hand, but I noticed that both Gengar are in S rank. Is Levitate Gengar as worthy of S rank as Shadow Tag Gengar?

If you're not running mega gengar, you shouldn't be running gengar at all. As opposed to ou viability rankings, uber rankings are looking at a pokemon as a whole as opposed to counting a mevo as a form change and thus there's no reason to put mega gengar in S and leave gengar at any other rank.

 

[Khan!!!]

Talonflame for C+

It's an excellent cleaner and super strong flying priority. However, it requires a quite bit of support to function well. It's an excellent mon on any spikes offense team tho. It OHKOS a lot of frail sweepers after sr which is very cool:

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Mewtwo Y: 315-372 (89.2 - 105.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Blaziken: 566-668 (188 - 221.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Darkrai: 256-303 (91.1 - 107.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

etc

i agree with this. with rocks talon can ohko many things with brave bird including Mega charizard x/y, rayquaza, scarf genesect, lucario etc

 

[DoABarrelRoll]

Whoever is using flash cannon is not using GeoXern at full potential. It may be used a lot, yes, but is it being used at full potential? No. Anybody with half a brain will not run flash cannon, because moonblast will hit hard enough vs other fairies.

The only surefire counter is Aegislash. Most of the other pokemon are considered checks, as Xern could be potentially running a move to take them out. Poison-Types? Psyshock. Ho-oh? Thunder or Rock Slide. Which fail to ohko unless sr is in play, and even then, you have to rely on thunder's 70% acc unless rain is up. Meanwhile Sacred Fire ohkoes in the sun or ho-oh can just whirlwind you out. Heatran? Close Combat or Focus Blast. Which doesn't ohko, and then heatran roars you out or OHKOes you with LO Flash Cannon. Scizor? HP fire. Band Scizor ohkoes you with BP before you can even respond with HP Fire. And support xerneas is meant to support the team via aromatherapy, and being an answer to non-raining Palkia while running another Arc-Form.

That one chance to sweep can simply be answered by not using that chance until the time is right.Also, note that most teams end up running a xern check BECAUSE of how threatening GeoXern is.

Finally, it's one of the few fairy-types usable in ubers. The only other choices are Fairyceus, and Sylveon, and they are most commonly used for support. Xerneas is most often used offensively, despite offensive Fairyceus being Used, as a CM user, and Support Xern existing.

 

[orch]

You're seriously underestimating xern's bulk LOL. Also, it's incredibly easy to get SR up and keep it on field. If you actually think that you can easily use Ho-Oh to check xern, then you're just delusional.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatran Flash Cannon vs. +2 200 HP / 0 SpD Xerneas: 218-260 (49.2 - 58.6%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 338-398 (76.2 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[Haruno]

You people need to stop assuming geoxern users are complete morons and trying to set up when (insert check here) is still healthy

 

[GRB1]

I'm going to recommend the Mega Lati twins for C / C-

To be honest, the only one of the Lati's with real Uber potential in any way is Latias. The one thing to set her apart is her niche in pseudo-checking some ScarfOgres and maybe an unexpected status spreader. What distinguishes her from other performers of the aforementioned roles like AV Palkia is her access to Roost / Recover and Levitate (fuck E-Quake and T-Spikes).

 

[Haruno]

I'm going to recommend the Mega Lati twins for C / C-

To be honest, the only one of the Lati's with real Uber potential in any way is Latias. The one thing to set her apart is her niche in pseudo-checking some ScarfOgres and maybe an unexpected status spreader. What distinguishes her from other performers of the aforementioned roles like AV Palkia is her access to Roost / Recover and Levitate (fuck E-Quake and T-Spikes).

They're not even released yet.....

 

[DoABarrelRoll]

I'm going to recommend the Mega Lati twins for C / C-

To be honest, the only one of the Lati's with real Uber potential in any way is Latias. The one thing to set her apart is her niche in pseudo-checking some ScarfOgres and maybe an unexpected status spreader. What distinguishes her from other performers of the aforementioned roles like AV Palkia is her access to Roost / Recover and Levitate (fuck E-Quake and T-Spikes).

The one with more uber potential is Latios. He can somewhat check scarfogre too and actually 2HKO it with lo thunder. Latios has access to those moves as well, and tbh Latias is, in my opinion, outclassed until the day soul dew is released

 

[Haruno]

The one with more uber potential is Latios. He can somewhat check scarfogre too and actually 2HKO it with lo thunder. Latios has access to those moves as well, and tbh Latias is, in my opinion, outclassed until the day soul dew is released

Latios is fucking weak, has a pretty shit typing and lol LO. Without soul dew, both latis are pretty useless and should not be considered for serious uber play.

 

[MMII]

They aren't released so we won't be adding them, change topics please.

 

[Valafar123]

This post might seem controversial, but I think that Xerneas should be dropped to A+ rank. Here's why:

1. Xerneas absolutely needs to use a power herb in order to use geomancy, but without life orb i feel like it doesn't hit hard enough...
2. Xerneas is easily revenge killed by arceus-normal and CB Scizor, which were very viable in gen 5 too. It also can't really get past mega gengar.
3. Xerneas suffers from 4 moveslot syndrome. Without thunder(bolt), it has no means of doing anything to Ho-oh (+2 geomancy doesn't 2hko), while brave bird is an easy OHKO with just a bit of prior damage. additionally, Ho-oh can easily Whirlwind it out. Lugia also completely walls non-Thunder(bolt) variants if sr isn't down, and guess what, Lugia can easily roost. However, xerneas really needs moonblast, focus blast and flash cannon to beat the most common threats
4. Xerneas can't really boost to +3 SpA/+3SpD/+3Spe, which might be crucial at times (i know it's situational, though)

I just want to put this out:

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 148 Def Xerneas: 290-344 (73.7 - 87.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Modest Xerneas with a spread of 0/0/148/252/0/104 outspeeds everything up to Scarf Terrakion after its Geomancy boost.

Granted it's very likely that there will be some prior damage on the turn of setup, but if there isn't, Xerneas can still sweep and has over 43% chance to OHKO Scizor after Stealth Rock with Moonblast.

I thought the calcs are interesting, though I'm not sure what to make of them.