Ladder Balanced Hackmons

[Halliday]

They call me the king for a reason
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/balancedhackmons-82344972
I actually got really lucky with this and managed it first try. No joke.

 

[CactusCacti]

So I was toying around with stuff and decided to try something simple:
I tossed imprison on a contratory spamming v-create, super power mega blaziken ala kfc.
And suddenly things started dying as imposters could not longer steal the boosts.
Granted, still walled by sheddy and weak to prankster but I kinda found it intresting how the normally not so recommended to use at higher levels stat up user became lot more useful just with slapping imprison on it.

So I kinda wonder why people dont use imprison more to check imposters? I can see many megas being bulky enough to do a "double dance" with imprison and then stat upper of choice. Granted it does limit the move slots of attacks to 2. But with so many moves its easy to do a stab + filler for about neutral coverage in BH anyway.

 

[Adrian Marin]

Imprison is good this gen, especially since Imposter is more common than before. Honestly though, I feel that Imprison + sweeping is not effective, it's only effective as a checkmate situation, it works well on Pokemon that have the time to do it and are constantly haunted by Imposter. I've been using it with Poison Heal Yveltal and it works very well against defensive teams. It is usually at least able to knock off vital items and PP stall the opponent.

Just click "A Paranoid Stall Balanced Hackmons team (Win/Loss 46-1)" on my signature for more information about my Imprison Yveltal set.

 

[ntiller]

So I was toying around with stuff and decided to try something simple:
I tossed imprison on a contratory spamming v-create, super power mega blaziken ala kfc.
And suddenly things started dying as imposters could not longer steal the boosts.
Granted, still walled by sheddy and weak to prankster but I kinda found it intresting how the normally not so recommended to use at higher levels stat up user became lot more useful just with slapping imprison on it.

So I kinda wonder why people dont use imprison more to check imposters? I can see many megas being bulky enough to do a "double dance" with imprison and then stat upper of choice. Granted it does limit the move slots of attacks to 2. But with so many moves its easy to do a stab + filler for about neutral coverage in BH anyway.

The reason people don't use Imprison a lot (it isn't awful, but it's generally not good on sweepers imo) is that it takes a set-up turn. If you have time to Imprison, you have time to Tail Glow/Shell Smash on a Judgmentmon, which gives you more immediate damage the following turn as well as frees up your ability slot (which is generally much more valuable than the item slot that Judgment costs).

 

[Rumors]

On the other hand, every Judgement mon except Arceus utterly loathes Trick and Knock Off, the latter of which is fairly common on both offensive and defensive mons alike. And Judgement mons can be crippled without their plate.

Meanwhile, Imprison is almost entirely useless against teams that don't have an Imposter. It's possible, but unlikely, you'll seal the move of a non-Imposter, but it's unlikely to matter. You also run into the issue of an Imposter managing to get in before Imprison, at which point you risk a speed tie on the move.

So really, they have their pros and cons, but the former is generally easier to use.

Personally, I found Prankster Imprison handy in Gen V when 50% or so of the leads were Moldy Deo-S or Sub-passing Ferrothorn. A moveset of Spore/Sub/Baton Pass/Imprison pretty much ensured early game momentum if the opposing lead relied on one of those moves. However, since both are rather uncommon as leads right now, this is more of a gimmick than a good set this generation.

 

[Gerard]

Wouldn't imprison be bad also because of the 50/50 chance to backfire horrifically? you're gonna speed tie so they can imprison you as well and then you're the one forced to switch

 

[Rumors]

Ideally, you set-up Imprison before the Imposter switches in. Or you have some sure-fire way to outspeed said Imposter, such as Quick Feet.

Of course, if it switches in and you're in a speed tie... well, hope you have another counter on your team.

 

[CactusCacti]

I actually used it on a contratory mega blaziken due of the setup turns at first.
Meaning I'd just hit the imprison first and begin super power and V-create spam for massive damage. It worked well with few u turners and baton passers making sure the speed tie never happened.

Granted, it has its problem due of the setup turn on the sweeper side, so the only other pokemon I so far had found it to work decently that have not been contratory users has been the Mega Mewtwos(X especially) and Arceus due of their insane stats and decent typings, allowing them to bulk sponge and speed up whatever the opponent might be up to on those two turns.

But yeah, if the foe has no imposter, it is useless as a whole. But honestly, Imposter is a pretty damn good thing to have so I rarely see teams without imposter.

 

[Rumors]

After a LR Electrify Gengar absorbed a Trick in a match, I got curious if the move/ability combo was being properly reflected in the sim as it was in-game. Eventually, this led to Kumi and I actually going to check. You can see for yourself with these two videos:

ZW8G-WWWW-WWW5-6Q6P
PTUW-WWWW-WWW5-6Q6T

But, in summary, Electrify + LR seems to catch all offensive move except hazards (unless there's any in particular we missed). Didn't check Parting Shot because I forgot my Pangoro was Moldy, but since it ate Trick, Curse, Skill Swap, and Roar... yeah... Also worth noting: LR also stops opposing Electrify. So, want to stop a Mega-Gengar from harassing you? Send in something like LR Yveltal.

Not quite the results I was hoping for, but it is what it is.

 

[Broken_Spacebar]

Hi all. I've noticed my technician mega mewtwo x set being used recently so I figured I'd post it.

Entrée (Mewtwo-Mega-X) @ Lum Berry //Lum berries seem to work the best, since if you get spored, you wake up and then use shift gear, which allows you to outspeed anything that's unboosted (e.g. deoxys-speed)
Ability: Technician
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Storm Throw
- Gear Grind
- Bonemerang //or Dual Chop, you can switch around those three moves
- Shift Gear

The main problems exist in the accuracy of gear grind and bonemerang, which can be annoying at times, so you could forgo shift gear for coil, although you can 1hko most things after boosting once with shift gear, thus avoiding any possible damage. It's really up to you.

Here's a potential alternate set.

Entrée (Mewtwo-Mega-X) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Technician
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Storm Throw
- Gear Grind //You could also run dark void with coil (and replace one of the two-hit moves with it), which works well after the accuracy boost, but you'd lose coverage
- Bonemerang //or Dual Chop
- Coil

One of the best things in this set is STAB storm throw, because with technician, crits, and stab you get a roughly 200 base power move that doesn't check for defense boosts (which has been handy many times).

An important thing to note is that you want a counter to this on your team. I ran a gale wings charizard y set which resisted all of the moves my mewtwo had, but technician mewtwo hits hard, so you might want something bulkier.

 

[Kit Kasai]

Are we allowed to bump threads? ;D

Anyways, tech mm2x is great, storm throw does an insane amount of damage. I ran a set with safety goggles, because I don't really like one time use items. My set was storm/dual/bone/shift, so it could be walled by flash fire togekiss (mainly a contrary wall). It kinda has 4mss though, cause it can be walled by a large variety of things (shed without sacred fire or something like that, togekiss without gear grind, aegis without bonemerang, etc)

 

[Broken_Spacebar]

It kinda has 4mss though, cause it can be walled by a large variety of things (shed without sacred fire or something like that, togekiss without gear grind, aegis without bonemerang, etc)

I agree, I find that it works best as a sort of surprise sweeper (when I first used it, nobody would expect it to 1hko things like registeel) that switches out after a few turns. When I first used this as my lead, I would sweep one or two pokemon, they'd switch in an imposter, and then I'd switch to gale wings charizard y and hopefully get the kill on them if they didn't switch. On my new team I didn't even give it a boosting move; I'm instead running priority (I can't decide if i want to use STAB mach punch which is boosted by technitian or e-speed to get KOs on kyu-b or pixie xernias switch-ins) since 1 hit usually does ~75%.

The main counters you might want to use would be (in decreasing order of effectiveness):
Sturdinja
FF Togekiss (depending on the moves you run)
Unaware Cresselia/Giratina

 

[Rumors]

I've been messing around with Trick Room lately and, surprisingly, it's definitely viable. Stuff like Ampharos and Heracross are terrors in Trick Room, even when unboosted. Though I'm still working on the team's synergy, which is about the only thing holding it back from having consistent performance right now. But still, I'm surprised since I honestly didn't expect to get anywhere with it.

Also, out of curiosity, I resurrected my Gen V rain team, made one tweak (switched Jolteon for Manetric), and gave it a spin in the current meta. And... well... its approach to rain doesn't really work effectively anymore. So the jury is still out on the viability of rain. I'd probably have to gut and rebuild to get something more functional, but that can wait until my other WIP teams are in better shape.

 

[TheCommadore]

Good new everybody. The mega forms of Latios and Latias are implemented in PS, as well as Hoopa, Volcanion, and Diance. To use them you have to manually edit the import/export of your team. The abilities of the legendary trio are not implemented as of yet but there are placeholders for them which apparently do nothing as of yet. Lati@s-Mega cannot make use of soul dew and both are dragon/psychic. All of these pokes are currently usable in BH, and they do have some potential, particularly Volcanion with his odd but useful defensive typing.

Early calculation of the base stats are as follows:
Latios-Mega
80/130/100/160/120/110
Latias-Mega
80/115/120/120/150/110
Volcanion
70/109/120/121/110/70
Hoopa
80/105/59/151/130/75
Diance
50/100/150/100/150/50

 

[Halliday]

Yeah, the one I can see having the least potential is hoopa, due to it's odd typing. The Megi@ses have potential for regenvest and poison heal, but are otherwise outclassed by their base forms. Volcanion has no exceptional stats, but is otherwise good, and diancie is a carbink with somewhat of an offensive presence. Not amazing, but niche.

 

[Kit Kasai]

I think the signature moves will be more significant, especially Volcanion's buffed scald-like move.

 

[NickFusi0n]

So uh, are Steam Eruption, Hyperspace Hole and Diamond Storm implemented too?

 

[GoldenSandslash15]

So uh, are Steam Eruption, Hyperspace Hole and Diamond Storm implemented too?

As of the time of this posting, no.

 

[Kit Kasai]

btw what are the new abilities?

 

[NickFusi0n]

Iirc Smealum said Volcanion didn't have any unique ability but he doesn't remember what it is (neither is he interested to check anyway). I'm personally betting it's Flash Fire or LightningRod... it just seems likely to me.

As for Hoopa my predictions are the following - Shadow Tag, Prankster, No Guard

 

[NickFusi0n]

Also, I've been running:

Latios-Mega @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psycho Boost
- Secret Sword / Psystrike
- Overheat

 

[Sewa]

Would be interesting to understand how Soul Dew works with Mega Lati@s, since when Pokemon mega-evolve the name (in the game) remains the same. We can't know it until someone cracks the game, but a Soul Dew MegaLatios can be extremely threatening.

 

[Arcticblast]

At this point there's a very likely possibility that Soul Dew simply does not exist any more.

 

[GoldenSandslash15]

At this point there's a very likely possibility that Soul Dew simply does not exist any more.

It's on the Battle Maison banlist, so it does exist.

I dunno for some reason I was under the impression that they all got signature abilities.

We know from hacking that the list of abilities stops at #188. They don't have unique abilities.

Also, I've been running:

Latios-Mega @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psycho Boost
- Secret Sword / Psystrike
- Overheat

Well, even when the Latiosite is released, this is illegal. Mega Latios has Levitate, not Contrary.

 

[Kit Kasai]

It has contrary in balanced hackmons >.<