But one more typo I overlooked. I also originally said I used Team Musharna for battles 201-300 when it should have said 101-200. My streak still can't be submitted because of my methods, so it's moot.If you lost battle 316 that means you had a streak of 315 not 316.
I'm assuming that zero-attacks sets like Meganium 4 as leads would remain even after bringing in Durant and having no more potential OHKO? My only experience with Struggling enemies was with disabling a banded poke's locked move, and they were either killed right afterward or had no one to switch to.Also have briefly thought about how a level 1 Cottonee/Whimsicott would work with similar support moves, but the main edge Sableye has is in baiting Espeon into using moves like Grass Knot and Dazzling Gleam so you can switch directly to Durant and X-Scissor it. Embargo isn't used often, but it's key when you're fighting a lead like Latios where one set has Protect and another has an item you want to get rid of.
Yeah, the only ones that switch out are those that only have Normal/Psychic/Fighting attacking moves against Sableye, and even those are kind of inconsistent on which turn they switch. Setting up against something like Meganium 4 is fine because when they have Truant, you can use Protect when they Struggle and prevent recoil damage. A lot of sets like that don't even require you to use Protect that often because Glalie can spam Taunt just often enough until they Struggle to low health and then let them use a recovery move.I'm assuming that zero-attacks sets like Meganium 4 as leads would remain even after bringing in Durant and having no more potential OHKO? My only experience with Struggling enemies was with disabling a banded poke's locked move, and they were either killed right afterward or had no one to switch to.
Tell me about it. I was so envious of the guys that had an AI partner with a solid legendary plus decent backup; until AFTER I'd already gotten the damn trophy, some of the best 530+/600 BST pokes were paired with utter deadweight with stall sets, or a Banded poke, usually Trevenant. After I had at least three streaks killed by CB Trevenant making the worst possible decision and killing my own pokes, I swore I'd never pair with it or another CB holder again.Multis: This was ugly. My only decent friend set used Haxorus3 with Rivalry and Toxicroak3 with Anticipation. Choice Band Haxorus can hit really hard, but will happily Earthquake for KOs even when it will knock out its partner too, making a lead Flying-type or Levitator pretty much a necessity. After much trial and error, I settled on a lead of Modest Togekiss with an Assault Vest (Dazzling Gleam - Air Slash - Grass Knot - Aura Sphere) and a backup of Jolly Mega Kangaskahn (Power-up Punch - Return - Crunch - Sucker Punch). The AI is horribly bad and still sometimes stays in when locked into Earthquake when both the foes fly, Outrages when one of the foes is a Fairy, etc., but my own Pokemon were just good enough to keep the team afloat. Even EVed for Speed and Special Attack, Togekiss can tank a lot of special attacks, and Mega Kanga cleans up a lot of messes. I switched to Latios and Greninja for battle 50, since with specifically tailored sets, they much better cover Nita and Morgan's Pokemon. So glad the multi grind is over!
Thanks, that's good to know. For some reason, in over 1,000 matches of Super Triples, I've never seen Quick Guard. I don't think the AI understands priority very well. Spiritomb is constantly trying to Sucker Punch my Talonflame even though it's slower. Also, I almost always Fake Out Escavalier, which is a +3 versus +2 priority (edit - this isn't right). Also, considering the AI's obsession/fear with/of OHKOs, it's probably expecting Fire Blitz with I hardly ever use. Maybe it only uses it on Aqua Jet or something.I actually fought an Escavalier 1 today in Triples, who used Quick Guard twice for some reason (Megahorn could have hit one of my pokes for neutral damage.) The move only exists on three sets, only one of which possible to encounter past battle 40 (Cobalion 3) but it is still there.
Probably just people repeating misinformation. You couldn't even do it without the Yache Berry unless Greninja were Modest (and even then, it would only be 68.8% of the time) because Tornadus has HP investment and is therefore alarmingly bulky. Jolly Scarf Darmanitan actually CAN sweep her, but you only have a 62.5% chance to OHKO Landorus.So I was doing a favour for wowgek7 in which I had to get the ribbon for clearing the super Chatelaines in any mode on his Salamence, so I took the Talonflame / Azumarill / M-Kangaskhan team I used to get there the first time I did it and figured I'd bring Salamence in just for the 50th match. I heard you could sweep her by spamming ice beam with a scarf Greninja, lucky for me I had one on hand. Unlucky that after OHKOing her Thundurus I found that her Tornadus could tank ice beam thanks to it's yache berry and proceed to kill Greninja with Focus Blast! Even worse was that I had figured if Greninja was going to solo Nita with Salamence riding the bench, I may as well try to get the ribbon on my trusty old story-mode Delphox as well. Once I had stopped freaking out about my fallen Greninja I decided to send in Delphox and try to finish it off so I could bait Landorus into locking itself into earth power so Salamence could finish it. It didn't help that Tornadus spammed double team and hid behind it's sub but luckily Delphox pulled it off!
Anyway that thrilling warstory aside, I'm now wondering where everyone has been getting the idea that scarf protean Greninja can sweep her? I'm surprised at myself for not remembering the yache berry in the first place but whatever...
If you're going to take one Pokemon in for that battle, let it be Focus Sash Shell Smash Cloyster.So I was doing a favour for wowgek7 in which I had to get the ribbon for clearing the super Chatelaines in any mode on his Salamence, so I took the Talonflame / Azumarill / M-Kangaskhan team I used to get there the first time I did it and figured I'd bring Salamence in just for the 50th match. I heard you could sweep her by spamming ice beam with a scarf Greninja, lucky for me I had one on hand. Unlucky that after OHKOing her Thundurus I found that her Tornadus could tank ice beam thanks to it's yache berry and proceed to kill Greninja with Focus Blast! Even worse was that I had figured if Greninja was going to solo Nita with Salamence riding the bench, I may as well try to get the ribbon on my trusty old story-mode Delphox as well. Once I had stopped freaking out about my fallen Greninja I decided to send in Delphox and try to finish it off so I could bait Landorus into locking itself into earth power so Salamence could finish it. It didn't help that Tornadus spammed double team and hid behind it's sub but luckily Delphox pulled it off!
Anyway that thrilling warstory aside, I'm now wondering where everyone has been getting the idea that scarf protean Greninja can sweep her? I'm surprised at myself for not remembering the yache berry in the first place but whatever...
Try saying that out loud haha. Thanks, I'll remember for next time. Just hope that annoying Tornadus doesn't double team hax you and land a couple focus blasts!If you're going to take one Pokemon in for that battle, let it be Focus Sash Shell Smash Cloyster.
Wow that's interesting that the Tornadus is EV'd like that. I suppose theoretically, prankster double team (and also substitute) could shut down any strategy for it. I'm going back through this thread because I'm sure I read it here that Gren was the perfect answer..Probably just people repeating misinformation. You couldn't even do it without the Yache Berry unless Greninja were Modest (and even then, it would only be 68.8% of the time) because Tornadus has HP investment and is therefore alarmingly bulky. Jolly Scarf Darmanitan actually CAN sweep her, but you only have a 62.5% chance to OHKO Landorus.
500!
I wasn't planning to post the 500th battle since the streak's not over yet, but the battle turned to be something of a nail-biter while showing off top threats, so here it is:
K29W-WWWW-WWW8-XGZR vs. Slowking / Dewgong / Aurorus / Vaporeon
The new team is as follows:
Lucario @ Lucarionite ** Zica Charger
Nature: Timid
Ability: Steadfast
EVs: 252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4 HP
- Aura Sphere
- Flash Cannon
- Nasty Plot
- Protect
Greninja @ Focus Sash ** Zinglon
Nature: Timid
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 SpA, 244 Spe, 12 HP
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot
- Dark Pulse
- Mat Block
Garchomp @ Life Orb ** SuperCarrot
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 HP
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Protect
Talonflame @ Sharp Beak ** U-Ship
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 HP, 4 SDef
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Tailwind
- Protect
Lucario is in the first position to scout for Magnet Pull - having Mat Block Greninja in it is more comfortable, but with Lucario you can check if Magnezone and Probopass have Magnet Pull (and therefore don't have Sturdy) whenever they show up
Why run special Lucario instead of the more common, harder-hitting physical one? Physical Lucario's moves aside from Close Combat suck - you get no Iron Head and priority on a base 112 Speed Pokémon is generally useless in the Maison, aside from hitting Aerodactyl with Bullet Punch. It also gets hit by Intimidate, Static, Flame Body, is destroyed by burn, and all the other nasty things. With Special Lucario, you have Aura Sphere, the best move in the Maison and the counter to many BrightPowder/Double Team Pokémon, including Regigigas, Lax Incense Explosion Lickilicky, Brightpowder Glaceon, Brightpowder Magnezone, and more. Against resists like Lati@s1 and Zapdos2 it is unfortunately not as awesome, but the ability to hit through Sand Veil/Snow Cloak/Muddy Water/Mud Bomb/Double Team/Minimize bullshit is amazing. And it has Flash Cannon for an equally powerful secondary STAB, giving it the powerful coverage physical Lucario wishes it had. Nasty Plot rounds it out with a massive power boost that makes Mega Lucario's neutral hits around 50% stronger than SE Ice Beam from Greninja, which is a heck of a lot of damage, and enough to kill nearly anything, including most resists when combined with the appropriate attack from Greninja. Dark Pulse is rejected since it's not powerful enough to get the snipes you'd want it for (most notably Slowking).
Lucario's Ground/Fire/Fighting weaknesses need to be covered, and many potentially viable Pokémon can do this - but only Talonflame can counter the specific threats that Lucario is terrible against: Scarf Darmanitan, Volcarona and Speed Boost Blaziken are the big ones. This Pokémon is rather underwhelming in the Maison - many of the fast threats you would want to use priority on (Aerodactyl, Jolteon, Manectric) resist it, its power is lacking for securing kills with its non-existent bulk even with Sharp Beak, and Flare Blitz can't even kill Sheer Cold Articuno unless you give it Life Orb. I'd advise against using Talonflame as a back-up in Maison Doubles, unless you're using Mega Lucario and require it on your team because of that. In its defense, Tailwind can be very useful in some situations, and enables it to contribute something even with Zapdos and Thundurus looming over it and turning it into a smoldering turd. Max HP is standard fare for Maison, and absolutely required for it to be able to switch in into nasty attacks like Darmanitan Flare Blitz and not die to recoil after getting the kill.
You may think I'm underrating the Pokémon since it got this far in the Maison, but it really is every bit as bad as I say - check out these calcs:
252+ Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gardevoir: 139-165 (97.2 - 115.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Volcarona: 186-222 (96.8 - 115.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO)
252+ Atk Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def Articuno: 152-180 (77.1 - 91.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gourgeist-Average: 168-200 (97.6 - 116.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Leafeon: 132-156 (94.2 - 111.4%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 136-162 (92.5 - 110.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
I've seen Talonflame miss every single one of these kills during the streak, and it has been costly every time. It's a small miracle the streak hasn't ended because of it yet. If I had a Life Orb to spare, I'd give it to Talonflame in a heartbeat despite the recoil just to secure kills. It's pretty much the Wide Lens of Talonflame, without it you are gambling with Play Rough-like odds at best when it counts. Don't use Talonflame as a back-up in Maison Doubles - unless your team has a huge Volcarona/Darmanitan/ShucaBlaziken-shaped hole that needs to be filled and nothing else can do it, which this one does.
Garchomp is the best Dragon in Maison Doubles/Triples. It has immunity to Thunder Wave and Electric immunity, which are mandatory to have on any team that utilizes Mat Block Greninja, as it hates fast Electric attacks and Thunder Wave. Not much to say, other than if you run Mat Block Greninja, be it in Doubles or Triples, you want Garchomp. Life Orb is preferred for this team, as the enemies have to die before they KO the frail, weak Talonflame. Yache Berry would help a lot against Slowking and Slowbro and other Waters, but without Life Orb Garchomp would lack the damage it needs.
Mat Block Greninja destroys 90% of the Maison all by itself harder than any other (non-TR Aron) lead could. It's so powerful there's nearly no reason to run any other lead in Aron-less Maison Doubles - Mat Block puts Fake Out to shame, and it is also a potent offensive force with three STAB attacks including STAB Ice Beam and massive Speed on top of it.
The top two threats by far are Slowking and Slowbro, resisting Lucario while killing everyone with Blizzard/Ice Beam, Surf and Psychic under Trick Room. Slowbro can be killed with Dark Pulse + Flash Cannon, but Slowking is unkillable and will always set up TR. Slowbro is no less of a threat, though - if it shows up 3rd/4th and you don't have Greninja around to hit it, it is an even bigger menace than Slowking with Blizzard to destroy all and massive physical bulk to stop Talonflame and Garchomp from touching it. If the dreaded Slowking + Slowbro lead pair shows up on a Pokémon Ranger or Beauty Orla, it will probably be the end of the streak if the back-ups are anything decent.
Zoroark is another big threat, as it OHKOes Lucario while outspeeding it on Turn 1 and masquerading as something harmless.
Other nasties include the usual things Mat Block Greninja fears - Roller Skaters and all the terrible, terrible Electric Pokémon and Choice Scarf users they run, and Trick Room. More specifically to the Lucario/Talonflame/Garchomp set-up, bulky waters are unpleasant, though usually manageable if their names don't begin with Slow. Confuse Ray, Thunder Wave, Hypnosis and Teeter Dance are as threatening as ever, though Lucario does hit Regigigas nicely. Donphan is hell, as it is wildly unpredictable against Greninja/Lucario - I've seen it use Seed Bomb on Greninja, Stone Edge on Greninja (why?! Seed Bomb is stronger even if Stone Edge crits), and less commonly Earthquake and Fissure. You just never know what's coming when Donphan comes out, and it's absolutely miserable. On the bright side. once its Sturdy has popped and it's done claiming the Fissure kills, Talonflame has priority to put it down for good.
As always, I'll be wrapping this up once the streak is done. Topics to be covered include why Mega Charizard Y is outclassed by Mega Lucario as a Greninja partner, and some lucky near-loss battle videos.
My pleasure! Note, however, that I'm traveling this week and so only have phone access. I'll have to hold off on updating until the 27th or so, but can then be more regular.NoCheese has volunteered to take over management of this thread. I've moved some posts around to make him the OP.
Thanks NoCheese!