Project Victim of the Week

[Kit Kasai]

I think he listed it as a check instead of a counter because zapdos can't switch into Pinsir if rocks are up.

 

[aVocado]

I think he listed it as a check instead of a counter because zapdos can't switch into Pinsir if rocks are up.

How not?

252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 248 HP / 192+ Def Zapdos: 105-123 (27.4 - 32.1%) -- 77.1% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

and if it switched as it used SD:

+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 248 HP / 192+ Def Zapdos: 209-246 (54.5 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

 

[Kit Kasai]

Nevermind misread the calc ;-;

 

[Aragorn the King]

I think the line between check and counter is getting a bit blurred here. I'm not sure why Zappy was considered a check while Rhyperior was considered a counter. Yes, they both win 1v1, so they're definitely at least checks. Rhyperior takes 80% maximum from +2 Pinsir, while Zappy takes 66%. Add on SR, and Rhyperior is taking 86%, while Zapdos is taking 91%. Considering Zapdos has reliable recovery while Rhyperior does not, I'd say they're either about even, or that Zapdos handles the situation better.

I think it's safer to consider both as checks, but what do you guys think?

 

[mcdanger]

Check

Thundurus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunder Wave
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Thundurus can come into +0 Return as well as +2 Quick Attack and OHKO it back with Thunderbolt. Close Combat hits for at most 39% at +0 allowing Thundurus to get in easily on its coverage moves, but loses to +2 Close Combat plus Quick Attack. With its 111 base speed, Thundurus can outpace Mega Pinsir fairly easily as well but only reliable beats it at +0

 

[Froggyboy]

CHECK

Dusclops @ Eviolite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
IVs: 0 Atk
Impish Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Night Shade
- Rest
- Sleep Talk/Curse

Dusclops can come in on an +0 Return. be able to take a hit and fire off a Will-O-Wisp to make anything Pinsir wants to do to this thing completely useless. Though Dusclops can't handle M-Pinsir well if it predicts the switch and gets off an SD, as +2 Return does enough for a burnt M-Pinsir to take down Dusclops before it can get off a Rest. Dusclops can easily wall Mega Pinsir, as long as it doesn't get predicted on the switch and get set-up on.

 

[AM]

Check

Raikou (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 32 HP / 252 SpA / 224 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Extrasensory
- Volt Switch

Raikou can come in on M-Pinsir before it gets to +2 or can take a +0 hit from either Return or Close Combat, while surviving Quick Attack and OHKO with either Thunderbolt or Volt Switch. It can only come in reliable before the +2 though so if it's at +2 chances are you're sacking something to get Raikou in.

 

[linkinparkrules]

Arikado ah yeah i forgot about roost, can't believe that my set hav but didn't mention about it. will fix that

 

[silver97]

I'm going to nominate one of the most underrated pokemon pf the ou metagame, it should be considered at least as a mega pinsir hard check

HIPPOWDON

Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Ability: sand stream
Evs: 252 hp/252 def/4 atk
Impish nature
-Stealth rock
-Slack off
-Earthquake
-stone edge/rock slide

Fully defensive Hippowdon is one of the best physical walls in ou and it can be considered at least as a hard check for pinsir since it can take any unboosted attack from the flying bug and avoid being 2HKOed, then it can either recover with slack off or retaliate with a 4x supereffective attack, stone edge is a more effective option because it KOs every time, rock slide is a more accurate attack that can still be effective with some residual damage. If pinsir switches out hippo can setup stealth rock to deal massive damage on the next switch-in

252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 160-189 (38 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Hippowdon Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Pinsir: 272-324 (100.3 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 Atk Hippowdon Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Pinsir: 204-244 (75.2 - 90%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage

The only thing preventing hippowdon from being an actual counter is the fact that it can't switch into a +2 return (i wonder what can do it)

+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 318-375 (75.7 - 89.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[silver97]

Are we allowed to nominate more than one check/counter?

 

[Aragorn the King]

Are we allowed to nominate more than one check/counter?

It's Sunday, and suggestions end on Saturday, so I'd like to wait for more entries before people can start to nominate more than one check/counter. On like Thursday/Friday, feel free to nominate another. Hopefully that makes sense.

However, feel free to nominate as many checks/counters to the Pokemon in the archive that are still missing some or are missing common/good checks/counters.

 

[silver97]

It's Sunday, and suggestions end on Saturday, so I'd like to wait for more entries before people can start to nominate more than one check/counter. On like Thursday/Friday, feel free to nominate another. Hopefully that makes sense.

However, feel free to nominate as many checks/counters to the Pokemon in the archive that are still missing some or are missing common/good checks/counters.

Ok, i'll look for the missing counters in the archive

 

[Salemance]

Now that I got a comp back, I shall present one of my favored mons to defeat the Mega BirdBug man............... Mega Aggron!

Soft Counter

Tankoceratops (Aggron) @ Aggronite
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Atk
Impish Nature
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Rest
- Sleep Talk


Wile he was able to handle the bug much easier back when it only ran earthquake, the Physical Chansey is still capable of holding his own against the bug. Switching in as he dances? No problem. Tank the hit (lose bout 50-59% wihout factoring hazards in) and OHKO with rock Slide after the Defense drops. Aggron comfortably switches in during to any of his other attacks (not even being 2hKO'd by a combination SR, Return and close Combat) and can find an opportunity to heal himself later on in the match.Yet why is he labeled such a soft check for a titan of defense?

Its for the mere fact one MUST Mega Evolve him before sending him in to fight the bug. A Close Comabt is devastating for Aggron in his original form, and really you should only be trying to switch him in un evolved if you are fealing ballsy to catch the Mega Pinsir in on the SD or a predicted Return/Quick Attack as Aggron fears nothing then through his mighty x4 resist to flying and shrugging off the beasts Boosted assault. While an amazing mon, he has his flaws, and must be used cautiously.

All hail the Tankceratops!

 

[Jukain]

i was gonna do skarm, but then i realized that rhyperior is, unarguably, the best mega pinsir counter in the game. thus, i thought i'd bring up the best check. keeping this short and to the point, there's not that much to say.

Manectric @ Manectite
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power Ice
- Overheat

Mega Manectric is perhaps the best offensive check to Mega Pinsir in the game. With Intimidate, it can even easily switch into anything Mega Pinsir has to offer at least once if it's at relatively high health.

-1 252 Atk Mega Pinsir Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Manectric: 119-141 (42.3 - 50.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
-1 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Manectric: 99-117 (35.2 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

And OHKOes with Thunderbolt or even Volt Switch. I think it's better than Raikou because Raikou can't switch in as well, and is more difficult to wear into boosted Quick Attack kill range.

+1 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Manectric: 87-102 (30.9 - 36.2%) -- 62% chance to 3HKO
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Raikou: 123-145 (38.3 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

The only disadvantage is having to figure out when to Mega Evolve, but it's not even hard, as Mega Manectric can revenge kill Mega Pinsir at basically any point and is easy to Mega Evolve early-game as it can just evolve and Volt Switch out. So, I don't think that's too big of a concern.

 

[bigkahuna07]

Skarmory is my fav counter for mega pinsir

Skarmory
Item Leftovers
Impish 252 HP/24 speed/ 232 def
Moves:
Brave Bird
Roost
Stealth Rock/Spikes
Whirlwind/Spikes

With Aegislash being banned to Ubers, Many M-Pinsir will now be running Close combat which at +2 only does about 60% with a jolly nature and will guarantee that Mega Pinsir gets OHKO'd by Brave Bird. Some calcs

+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 55-66 (16.4 - 19.7%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Mega Pinsir Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 171-202 (51.1 - 60.4%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 142-168 (42.5 - 50.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. -2 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Pinsir: 368-434 (135.7 - 160.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Don't think Skarmory got posted yet so just putting my fav way for dealing with mega pinsir.

 

[Kit Kasai]

Why are you calcing against a -2 pinsir?

 

[linkinparkrules]

so many checks and counter @@ maybe this thread should be considered having 4 best checks and 4 best counter for each victim of the week... Pinsir has 4 good counters and it's hard to eliminate one of them... the same for checks...

 

[Aragorn the King]

so many checks and counter @@ maybe this thread should be considered having 4 best checks and 4 best counter for each victim of the week... Pinsir has 4 good counters and it's hard to eliminate one of them... the same for checks...

Every week it has been difficult choosing only three checks, since often like 8 solid ones are given. I don't want it to just be like submitting a check gets you a spot in the archive, since some noms aren't that great. But I kinda think three may be too harsh. I'll think about extending it to four, and if I do, I'll add a fourth to every archive that deserves it. Also, I'm going to link every mon in the archive with a pastebin of their set, so providing checks and counters to old Pokemon will be easier.

Thanks guys! Keep 'em coming!

 

[bigkahuna07]

Why are you calcing against a -2 pinsir?

that is if he had used Close Combat he would be at -2 def

 

[Aragorn the King]

that is if he had used Close Combat he would be at -2 def

Close Combat only drops your defenses to -1, not -2. Unless for some reason you were calcing it against a Pinsir who's used it twice, which I guess isn't that unreasonable.

 

[bigkahuna07]

Close Combat only drops your defenses to -1, not -2. Unless for some reason you were calcing it against a Pinsir who's used it twice, which I guess isn't that unreasonable.

wow can't believe I did that srry for the mixup, here are the correct calcs

0 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. -1 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Pinsir: 276-326 (101.8 - 120.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

still the guaranteed OHKO and no pinsir with earthquake will stand a chance against skarmory IMO as +2 return still only does

+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 142-168 (42.5 - 50.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 55-66 (16.4 - 19.7%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery

Skarmory can just kill it with good ol BB, or set up rocks/ phaze it out and has roost to heal off the damage it takes, however many M-pinsir I see are paired with a talonflame, so IMO Rhyperior is still by far the best way to deal with mega pinsir as others have stated.

 

[linkinparkrules]

Aragorn the King is it ok if i put a check and counter for the previous victim here?

 

[Aragorn the King]

Aragorn the King is it ok if i put a check and counter for the previous victim here?

I'd rather it be a Pokemon whose checks and counters aren't completed yet. But, if you think you have a fantastic check or counter to something that's already full, in this case Heracross, I guess feel free to post! I want this thread to have some structure, but I don't wanna limit you either. Post away!

 

[linkinparkrules]

Aragorn the King if you link every mon in the archive with a pastebin of their set, i think there should be a discription for each pokemon's set and how they work, what each ivs' spread is for.
by the way here's my Kyurem-b's check: Mega Heracross

Heracross (M) @ Heracronite

Trait: Swarm

EVs: 200 HP / 252 Atk / 58 Spd

Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)

- Close Combat

- Rock Blast

- Pin Missile

-whatever move you want

heracross needs to be mega evolved before becoming a check to kyurem-b, or modest ice beam is 2hko (naive ice beam 3hko regardless, just to make sure, and because heracross is slower). The ivs set is a little bit different from the victim's set, but it has a point and i haven't known why the victim set gets only 40hp yet . Since commom kyurem-b has their spatk max, 200hp to make sure that rash ice beam guarantee 3hko only if no SR is on heracross's side (again, i'm unsure if rash or naive is more common on kyurem-b so Aragorn the King glad if you can explain a bit on each of the victim's set):
252+ SpA Teravolt Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs. 200 HP / 0 SpD Mega Heracross: 147-174 (41.8 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
while rock blast get a nice chance of OHKO:
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-B: 390-470 (96.2 - 116%) -- approx. 93.8% chance to OHKOso this is the way to beat K-b. Kyurem-b comes into something it can kill, i switch to mega hera. There's 2 situations:
+ it uses subs, then ice beam me. I rock blast, about 2 first hit breaks his sub: 252+ Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (2 hits) vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-B: 156-188 (38.5 - 46.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery. the next 3 hits will seriously weaken it: 252+ Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (3 hits) vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-B: 234-282 (57.7 - 69.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery. it then use another ice beam and i use CC or something. Done. (that's why i need ice beam for avoiding 2HKO)
+ it ice beam. then if it sub, the situation is the same as above ( but really, no one dat stupid). so if it ice beam again, i can survive another hit and destroy it with either CC or Rock Blast.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Forgive me for asking, but are their actual definitions for how the words 'hard' and 'soft' are being used?

I have no idea what a soft counter or a hard check is or what's the difference...

I know what a hard counter is (since that's very traditional and is basically the definition of a counter). Otherwise sounds pretty subjective all.