ORAS UU Viability Ranking Thread

[Thanks Brock Obama]

edit: removed Pikachu mentions

I'm all for Suicune going to S-Rank myself, he's been a pokemon that every team needs to prepare for the longest time, and as long as he's at least generally healthy he's got a chance to win you the game if you can remove whatever your opponent has brought to beat it. On top of that Suicune has good defensive use as well, as pure water gives him handy resists to fire and ice, while Scald helps him scare out other physical threats. Honestly I don't think there's much call to get into Suicune too much since everyone knows what he pretty much does by now, and I personally think he does enough to merit a place next to pokes like Jirachi and Zygarde.

 

[dingbat]

Pikachu is not being ranked. It's not even UU, and it's even worse than Scrafty is here. Enough Pikachu talk.

I'm going to move Suicune into S rank since much of us are in support of it (including me), and it's just a really strong force at the moment.
I may move Granbull up to B+ as well, since this meta has literally become a Fighting-type meta with M-Gallade and M-Bunny starting to run everywhere.

Edit: Searching for more change proposals in thread atm

 

[DiscoDucky]

Meowstic to C. It's a very good Dual Screens setter that allow stuff to safely set-up, such ad Gallade and Absol.

Seriously, ask anyone in UnderUsed. It literally makes any bad player marginally good.

 

[dingbat]

Also removing Mega Banette from Viability

Other things in consideration that I've seen
Mega Sceptile: B+ --> A-
Mega Pidgeot: B+ --> A-
Tornadus: B --> B+
Mega Houndoom: C --> B-
Meowstic: Unranked --> C

 

[nv]

I really like the idea for Mega Bird Jesus and Mega Sceptile moving up to A- rank from B+ rank.

Mega Bird Jesus: This one is obvious as with the bans, 4 of them being Fairies, UU has become a Fighting- type meta with Mega Lopunny and Mega Gallade running rampant at the moment. Mega Bird Jesus has found a great place in the current UU meta as a great Fighting check since it has base 121 Speed, U-turn, a great STAB move in Hurricane (and doesn't miss thanks to No Guard), and a great coverage move in Heat Wave. What holds it back is the fact that it isn't that bulky and it is easily worn down by some common Choice Scarf users in UU.

Mega Sceptile: This one is a bit less obvious but as he was weak to the Fairies who are now banned, he is automatically a bigger threat. The fact that his STAB combo is pretty cool too with Grass STAB to bop Bulky Waters and Dragon STAB to bop many Dragons fairly easily, such as Hydreigon, Haxorus, and so on. Lightningrod also allows it to easily switch into Volt Switch users and garner a free +1. What truly holds it back though is the piss poor bulk / defensive typing and the fact that even with 145 Special Attack, it doesn't hit as hard as you want it to hit.

 

[KaiseraAeros]

I really like the idea for Mega Bird Jesus and Mega Sceptile moving up to A- rank from B+ rank.

Mega Bird Jesus: This one is obvious as with the bans, 4 of them being Fairies, UU has become a Fighting- type meta with Mega Lopunny and Mega Gallade running rampant at the moment. Mega Bird Jesus has found a great place in the current UU meta as a great Fighting check since it has base 121 Speed, U-turn, a great STAB move in Hurricane (and doesn't miss thanks to No Guard), and a great coverage move in Heat Wave. What holds it back is the fact that it isn't that bulky and it is easily worn down by some common Choice Scarf users in UU.

Mega Sceptile: This one is a bit less obvious but as he was weak to the Fairies who are now banned, he is automatically a bigger threat. The fact that his STAB combo is pretty cool too with Grass STAB to bop Bulky Waters and Dragon STAB to bop many Dragons fairly easily, such as Hydreigon, Haxorus, and so on. Lightningrod also allows it to easily switch into Volt Switch users and garner a free +1. What truly holds it back though is the piss poor bulk / defensive typing and the fact that even with 145 Special Attack, it doesn't hit as hard as you want it to hit.

I wouldn`t call Mega Pidegot a "Fighting Check" per se Mostly becuse its neutral to Fighting type which doesn`t allow him to switch in on than like Tornadus and Crobat Company.The Biggest reason IMO Mega Burd Jesus deserves the A- Rank is the fact its absolute hell to switch in And while its not as ridicoulous it is Simmilar to mega Bunny in that it suffers from "Less-than 4MSS" Syndrome and it has a Free Slot to do whatever the hell you want with it.Longevity?Go For Roost,Want to get Coverage on basically almost anything that resist your normall Fire/Flying Coverage?HP Water(stop arguing about other HPs this is the best one by far lol),Want to do something Dumb?Tailwind to support your random Haxorus,Honchkrow/"Slow" Mon that can Obliterate Teams with bit of Speed,Heck even Work Out if you are feeeling Balsy as hell.

Tornadus to B+ One of the best Flying Types in the tier to use even outside of Rain,while still being Obligatory for any Rain Team build in UU definately deserves the Bump


Mega Houndoom: C --> B- It May be just me looking at this thing from a "Pink-Collored Pair of Glasses" since I played XY UU since the Beta and remenber the time this thing was a S Rank Threat and how it made me shit my pants back in the day and underestimating how shitty it is on this meta and all other stuff but when I look at Mega Houdoom and I look at the entire C rank I can`t see this thing on the same lvl as any of than with a few exceptions the C rank mons that are on C due to requiring very especific Team Builds like how Kabutops is really shitty out of Rain but an excelent rain abuser

 

[BenzMafia]

I wouldn`t call Mega Pidegot a "Fighting Check" per se Mostly becuse its neutral to Fighting type which doesn`t allow him to switch in on than like Tornadus and Crobat Company.

Mega Pidgeot is a decent fighting check because given a free switch a check can beat the opposing pokemon 1v1. 121 base speed and stab hurricane is just enough for bird jesus to do its job. Only downside is you don't outspeed mega gallade and lo shao first turn you mega evolve :(

 

[KaiseraAeros]

Mega Pidgeot is a decent fighting check because given a free switch a check can beat the opposing pokemon 1v1. 121 base speed and stab hurricane is just enough for bird jesus to do its job. Only downside is you don't outspeed mega gallade and lo shao first turn you mega evolve :(

Man I swear every Day I see at least 20 defintions of Checks with half of it involving a free switch and half of it involving having to switch in at least 1 move and that messes me up so damn much that I normally only consider a valid check something that can switch into at least one of the Pokemon STABs at least once and force it out which Pidgeot can`t vrs most Fighting types otherwhile checks and revenge killers are mostly the same thing

Also one small thing that sucks is that Shao HJK or Stone Edge never misses vrs you :(

 

[DiscoDucky]

Why is empoleon a rank? I'd assume with the increase of fightspam, empoleons usage will decrease since it gives mons such as gallade an lop and mienshao an offensive advantage.

 

[radianthero156]

Why is empoleon a rank? I'd assume with the increase of fightspam, empoleons usage will decrease since it gives mons such as gallade an lop and mienshao an offensive advantage.

it's the only thing in the meta that isn't killed by scarf rachi

 

[Venduria]

Qwilfish from Unranked -> B

With all the fighting spam going around, Qwilfish takes a mighty dump on most of them. While being bulky as hell, he can throw out Spikes and T-Spikes to support the team and Intimidate all the physical mons trying to sweep your team. I think of him like a physically bulky Tentacruel in a sense, and has a great support movepool that includes T-Wave, Pain Split, Explosion, Taunt, Acid Spray, Destiny Bond, Haze, and Whirlpool. If only it got Knock Off...

M-Ampharos from B+ -> A-

Flying spam got hit hard with the loss of Togekiss and Staraptor, but with how strong fighting types are, flyers are still amazing. M-Pidgeot, Fletchinder, Crobat, etc. are all getting heavy use to check M-Gallade/M-Lopunny, and M-Ampharos laughs at all of those fliers. Since the meta shift after the BL wave is more favorable, its time for M-Amph to rejoin the A ranks.

I also second M-Pidgeot and M-Sceptile moving up, M-Pidgeot in particular is very scary right now.

 

[slated]

Qwilfish from Unranked -> B

With all the fighting spam going around, Qwilfish takes a mighty dump on most of them. While being bulky as hell, he can throw out Spikes and T-Spikes to support the team and Intimidate all the physical mons trying to sweep your team. I think of him like a physically bulky Tentacruel in a sense, and has a great support movepool that includes T-Wave, Pain Split, Explosion, Taunt, Acid Spray, Destiny Bond, Haze, and Whirlpool. If only it got Knock Off...

M-Ampharos from B+ -> A-

Flying spam got hit hard with the loss of Togekiss and Staraptor, but with how strong fighting types are, flyers are still amazing. M-Pidgeot, Fletchinder, Crobat, etc. are all getting heavy use to check M-Gallade/M-Lopunny, and M-Ampharos laughs at all of those fliers. Since the meta shift after the BL wave is more favorable, its time for M-Amph to rejoin the A ranks.

I also second M-Pidgeot and M-Sceptile moving up, M-Pidgeot in particular is very scary right now.

def agree with both these noms, qwilfish is actually good now (fuckin great, i used qwil to get top 5 on the ladder back near the beginning of the blissey era in xy) and it checks fires too.

i made a nom for mega amphy before but yeah it was really screwed over with the addition of mega altaria and mega diancie, since those mons just setup all over it. It's pretty nice now for the reasons you stated.

also Cofagrigus doesn't even check lopunny, sub encore just beats cofag lol

 

[BenzMafia]

Cofagrigus doesn't even check lopunny, sub encore just beats cofag lol

Incorrect, Lopunny does this much damage with hjk (37.9 - 45.1%), Cofagrigus passes Mummy and bunny is forced to switch out therefore cof technically beats lop 1v1 but considering only recovery option of cof is pain split which is not reliable it struggles to do its job consistently because bunny can switch out, come back later, rinse and repeat. Especially if lopunny is running sub baton pass cofagrigus can't even heal with pain split and give free turns to dangerous dark types such as krook who can pursuit trap it with relative ease.

 

[Venduria]

Its not really a win if you get to a stalemate. Cofagrigus is a decent answer to non-Sub-Encore M-Lopunny, but is kinda pointless to use otherwise. I feel like Cofagrigus just isn't worth it anymore, as its defensive sets lack recovery outside of Pain Split or Rest-Talk, and offensive sets have a small niche on TR teams with its TR NP set which just isn't as effective as it was last gen. If you need a M-Bunny check/counter, just throw a Cresselia on your team and call it a day.

 

[Pokemoon]

why is mega steelix ranked? i don't see why it is, if someone could tell me thx

 

[dingbat]

Mega steelix is ranked because it has its defined niche of being able to cockblock volt switches (and other electric types), something that Mega Aggron couldn't do. Otherwise, it would be totally outclassed by it.

 

[Meru]

Can we please stop asking the ranking and placement of mons. If you're that interested and dumbfounded, the Simple Questions / Simple Answers thread serves as a much better tool. The purpose of this thread to generate lively discussions about the metagame, and describe the influx/trends of certain threats and how powerful they are so that players from other tiers can get an idea of the state of the metagame based off of this resource. Quite frankly, it's been lacking lately, which is sad, as discussion here is probably one of the best ways to get noticed for Community Contributor badge. If you're really concerned, try asking in IRC, PS! UU room, or like I said before, the Simple Questions / Simple Answers thread.

In addition, if you're nomming a mon that is in PU, you should think long and hard about whether or not you're going to be taken seriously. This thread is going to be more heavily moderated to prevent shitposting, and if you're not one of the shitposters, at least refrain from responding to noms that are literally a joke (yes Pikachu is one of them)

 

[RyanKoopa]

I'd like to nominate Crobat for A+. The biggest difference I can see between A+ and A are that mons in A+ are things every team needs an answer to, while those in A (while being prominent threats) are merely things you need to look out for. Crobat is just plain more important to look out for than any other mon in A, and I just think Crobat's impact on the metagame is more akin to Hydreigon or Mienshao than it is to say, Empoleon or Azelf. On that note I'd also like to consider Celebi for A+ rank as well due to the ease with which it can bp boosts to either physical or special sweepers depending on the set, though I'm not as certain on this nomination.

I also think Delphox and Ferroseed should be added once again to C Rank. I don't understand why they were removed in the first place, the metagame shift dosen't seem to have affected them too much (especially Ferroseed.) Oh, and I also support Qwilfish for B

 

[glock in my toyota]

I also think Delphox and Ferroseed should be added once again to C Rank. I don't understand why they were removed in the first place, the metagame shift dosen't seem to have affected them too much (especially Ferroseed.) Oh, and I also support Qwilfish for B

erm,, isnt this tier like entirely fighting spam now? this change ruined ferro's chance at viability imo.

 

[jamashawalker]

I'd like to nominate Cresselia from A- --> A Rank

This metagame is extremely hyper offensive and fighting spam with the trio Meinshao,Gallade, and Lopunny. Cresselia can check the 2 former and hard counter the latter. The main reason though I believe cresselia should be nominated is for her amazing support movepool that can really help HO teams. Thunderwave can aid in paralysis support which is crucial in this metagame, Toxic hits alot of walls that come in making it much easier for your sweepers to get past them, Moonblast hits for super effective on alot of the top ranked offensive mons, Dual Screens to aid in setting up making it alot easier, and finally Lunar Dance to top it off. Nothing worse than fighting a Gallade who you thought you crippled with Will O Wisp and damage come back in full health ready to sweep once more. All in all Cresselia helps with stopping threats while providing support for your team at the same time. That not something most walls can do bar celebi(and it runs into 4MMS)

 

[Nickos]

Hard counter? You mean Lopunny can't just run Toxic like sometimes does, or just sub and then pass it?
Also:
252 SpA Cresselia Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Lopunny: 75-89 (27.6 - 32.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

 

[HT]

Hard counter? You mean Lopunny can't just run Toxic like sometimes does, or just sub and then pass it?
Also:
252 SpA Cresselia Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Lopunny: 75-89 (27.6 - 32.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

Might wanna check your calc bud, Mega Lop is a fighting type. And I haven't really seen toxic at all, but that's just me

0 SpA Cresselia Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Lopunny: 144-170 (52.9 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[Jaguar360]

Hard counter? You mean Lopunny can't just run Toxic like sometimes does, or just sub and then pass it?
Also:
252 SpA Cresselia Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Lopunny: 75-89 (27.6 - 32.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

So you're running Toxic, Baton Pass and Sub on the same set? I didn't know that Lopunny had 5 moveslots?
Toxic is a valid point though. Fake Out or Encore are probably best in the final slot after the main STAB moves.

Still Cresselia is still a hard check or even a counter to Mega Lopunny Toxic or not and the metagame suits it very well at this point. It has Moonlight for semi-reliable recovery, support with Thunder Wave, Toxic and Lunar Dance and does a good job of checking Fighting types as even Knock Off doesn't do that much. It could feasibly stay A- rank or go to A rank. I don't have enough experience with it to clearly say which.

 

[Venduria]

So you're running Toxic, Baton Pass and Sub on the same set? I didn't know that Lopunny had 5 moveslots?
Toxic is a valid point though. Fake Out or Encore are probably best in the final slot after the main STAB moves.

Still Cresselia is still a hard check or even a counter to Mega Lopunny Toxic or not and the metagame suits it very well at this point. It has Moonblast for semi-reliable recovery, support with Thunder Wave, Toxic and Lunar Dance and does a good job of checking Fighting types as even Knock Off doesn't do that much. It could feasibly stay A- rank or go to A rank. I don't have enough experience with it to clearly say which.

I think you mean Moonlight instead of Moonblast, but I agree that Cresselia should move up solely because it is one of the few viable Pokemon not afraid of M-Lopunny. Psychic as a defensive type is a bit of a mixed bag, benefits being great against fighting and psychic, while being U-Turn and Knock Off weak is really unfortunate. Cresselia does have the benefit of either going full support, or being somewhat of a win-condition with its Sub CM set with Moonblast. I don't think it should go any higher than A though, as M-Aggron and M-Beedrill to some extent give it a lot of trouble.

 

[silenced]

Cresselia should certainly go to A. Even with SE hits, they really need to be boosted or have STAB behind them to have any sort of potency against the floating duck. The knock off weakness is more annoying than bad as the only knock off that really hurts cresselia is the one coming from krookodile/M-Absol because without boosts or STAB SE attacks, it takes stuff all damage. The only other irritation about it is that it doesn't have a reliable way to get rid of status, outside of the unreliable psycho shift.

Beyond that, having a wall that doesn't give too much of a damn about hazards, and adding to that an ability to act as as a win-con while walling a good chunk of the meta, that seems like A rank stuff to me. Jamash already covered the support options in nice detail.