3v3 Singles Metagame Discussion Thread [The Pentagon is back!!]

[cant say]

I also came across this on his blog: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-W0n_8srZxpI/Vae9Fjawb2I/AAAAAAAACVc/bAAvClY35oA/s1600/ORAS_S10_PGLKP.png

This chart seems to reflect the PGL usage literally(this is my guess at least, looking at the top 12 on pgl this is pretty accurate aside from very minor differences which im assuming have to do with the timing of when these people collect the stats), and it shows up to the top 50 which is pretty neat! And it shows the stats from every format as well :D except Special but oh well.

Now if this is accurate then I find this really interesting! The differences between this and the PGL's top 12 is that Blaziken and Thundurus, and Rotom-W and Suicune are swapped. I know that Rotom-W did drop down towards the end of the season and I'm pretty sure Blaziken did too, so this would mean they had collected this data around mid-season (which would make sense as then he could publish it and people could use the information and make changes to their teams for the rest of the season). It really sucks that this also doesn't have usage percentages, so the only benefit of this list is seeing what is popular outside the top 12... Porygon2 seems to be dropping quite far down after peaking at #9 in season 9 (now at #17). Cresselia is also dropping down quite far, now #20 after being #10 in season 9... Surprised that Serperior is so close to cracking the top 12, I would be super psyched to see it up there on the PGL. Dragonite seems low to me, especially after all the talk we had recently about it 'consistently being ranked high in Japanese viability rankings'

Keep in mind the PGL stats are only usage of the 3 pokemon brought into matches. That means Pokemon like Serperior may as well be on a majority of these teams or even trubbish (I'm saying a pokemon and a mild swear all in one word haha) and the top 12 will still be w/e they are since these Pokemon aren't brought to as many games. So having a nugget feraligatr on the team as the 6th slot, never using it, and playing 1000+ matches at 1600+ won't alter usage data and make gatr even a .1% nugget holder :'(

Also, you can use trubbish the same way and see no usage data for it lol

Yeah I know that, what are you trying to say? that @nouthuca recorded every Pokemon he saw at team preview, and not what he actually saw in battle? That might actually make sense since his list which breaks down usage based on ranking and total usage differ greatly.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

2k+ rating teams for season 10 are up

http://aaaapokemon.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-141.html

Also as of mid season 10 there has been a rise of Kanga/Gengar/Blaziken/Suicune/Thundurus/Garchomp teams. The megas in here will vary (obv Kanga will be 1 mega, but some variants use no additional megas, while others use Blaze or Gengar).

I had a great time reading these! I don't even play singles, or haven't delved fully into it, but the full descriptions of the top teams (most of them linked to their own blogs) is cool stuff. The Japanese community obviously takes at least Battle Spot Singles as seriously as other countries do VGC, with major emphasis on topping the ladder, blogs for major teams and players, etc.

Are people looking at these for the Battle Spot analyses? Some of them may be able to be stolen wholesale (maybe with credit). I can read enough Japanese to get the gist of some of the descriptions of the Pokemons' roles, and most of the moves and items, though hopefully someone knows more.

 

[GroudonEmpire]

Yeah I know that, what are you trying to say? that @nouthuca recorded every Pokemon he saw at team preview, and not what he actually saw in battle? That might actually make sense since his list which breaks down usage based on ranking and total usage differ greatly.

Yes

 

[nouthuca]

Hi, I visited here because some have access from here to my blog. :)

I explain this article.
http://nouthuca.blogspot.jp/2015/07/10oraskp.html

The first image is what I was counting the actual combat log by 14 people of cooperation.
It was gathered via an app for recording the match.(It is an app that I made. :) )

The last image is what I was created by analyzing the source of PGL.
This is a ranking of the Pokemon that appeared in the match between the top players based on the description of PGL.

I'll answer whatever you want to ask me.
please ask a question with a simple English. :)

 

[cant say]

Hi there nouthuca and welcome to Smogon! We're excited to see you here in Battle Spot.

So from my understanding, the first image is compiled from what you've actually encountered, whereas the second image is taken directly from the PGL itself? That's really quite interesting! How do your source the data from the PGL? How often do you do it? Would you be able to find out the percentage that each Pokemon is used? When do you plan to get the statistics for the current season?

I hope to see you more around the forum and join in on our discussions :)

 

[nouthuca]

>the first image is compiled from what you've actually encountered?
YES, It is a Pokemon that we've actually encountered.

>How do your source the data from the PGL?
I'm using a program that this man has created. This is great! XD
https://github.com/sacchin/ToyBox/b...9416d9582ca074/ImageEditor/src/PGLGetter.java

>How often do you do it? & When do you plan to get the statistics for the current season?
Each season.
Season 9 : http://nouthuca.blogspot.jp/2015/05/9oraskp.html
Season 8 : http://nouthuca.blogspot.jp/2015/03/8oraskp.html
Season 7 : http://nouthuca.blogspot.jp/2015/01/7kp.html
But image was analyzed PGL data are from Season 10. :(

>Would you be able to find out the percentage that each Pokemon is used?
It is impossible to do it in the image that analyzed PGL data.
I can do it in the image based on actual combat.

HAHA, It is difficult to write in English!!
(These have been translated by Google.)

 

[Melon Vodka]

-cut

Wow, it's amazing (and very useful) what you did. I suppose that usage stats help very well since they come from battles of the strongest players, or anyway who is in the top ladder (If I understand well). I see so many fire 'mons, it's weird since in 3v3 stealth rock is used. Just to say, there are: Talonflame, Heatran Charizard, Blaziken, Entei, Volcarona, Rotom-H. Ok, maybe they aren't so many, and then Heatran and Blaziken are just 1x weak, but they are more than I expected.

Nice even the teams list. Useful since I'm not good to build teams, not now.

HAHA, It is difficult to write in English!!
(These have been translated by Google.)

Don't worry, the important is if people understand what you want communicate. And I understood your message (and I'm not english). ;)

 

[nouthuca]

I see so many fire 'mons, it's weird since in 3v3 stealth rock is used.

It is a difficult question　in the point that I will be able to explain well.

1,Stealth Rock is not used every time.
- Pokemon that can use Stealth Rock is not in opponent's. (There is no need to be frightened into Stealth Rock.)
- It is less effective my Pokemon. (It's fatal to certainly Charizard, but it is not the case for Kangaskhan, Suicune, Serperior.)

2,Stealth Rock is not almighty.
- When you use Stealth Rock, there is to be a fatal unguarded moment.
-- Taunt　can interfere with Stealth Rock. (by Gengar, Talonflame, Thundurus, Serperior, etc.)
-- There are several status move that may decide the outcome. (Substitute, Dragon Dance, Trick, etc.)
- Some of Pokemon can heal. (Roost by Charizard, Talonflame)

3,Pokemon that can use Stealth Rock are limited.
- Garchomp : It is very weak in Ice Type, and It is better not use Stealth Rock have more power.
- Hippowdon : In many cases, it does not have only two kinds of attacks. (Ground, Rock) It does not beat Grass Type.
- Ferrothorn : It is very weak in Fire Type, and It is very very slow.

Hmmmm?
How about with this?

 

[cant say]

Yeah Skyark we've discussed the value / viability of Stealth Rock countless times all over this forum. The tl;dr version is that it's really only used to break Focus Sash or Sturdy so that your main sweeper can OHKO things without having to worry about them, and if your team has problems with Talonflame, Charizard or Volcarona. It is NOT mandatory like it is in OU.

nouthuca thanks for the answers! Here are my replies:

>How often do you do it? & When do you plan to get the statistics for the current season?
Each season.

I understand you would do it every season. I meant to ask when can we expect to see the statistics for this season?

>Would you be able to find out the percentage that each Pokemon is used?
It is impossible to do it in the image that analyzed PGL data.

That's a shame! It would be really helpful to see the percentage at which each Pokemon is actually used.

HAHA, It is difficult to write in English!!
(These have been translated by Google.)

Don't worry, you're doing better than most native English speakers here. Google is doing a fine job

 

[nouthuca]

I understand you would do it every season. I meant to ask when can we expect to see the statistics for this season?

I have made the images to always next weekend that Season was over.
Next time will take place around September 21. (But only if it is not busy.)

That's a shame! It would be really helpful to see the percentage at which each Pokemon is actually used.

I think so too. :)
But I can guess by using were analyzed actual match log data.
1st ~ 6th : More than 20%
7th ~ 20th : 10% ~ 20%
21th ~ 40th : 5% ~ 10%
41th ~ 80th : 1% ~ 5%

 

[NOVED]

nouthuca Do you know why people use Hippowdon, Lucario, Dragonite together? What makes them good together? Doesn't sand interfere with Dragonite's ability?

Also, the app you made, what else does it have? Aside from the usage stats

 

[GroudonEmpire]

nouthuca Do you know why people use Hippowdon, Lucario, Dragonite together? What makes them good together? Doesn't sand interfere with Dragonite's ability?

Also, the app you made, what else does it have? Aside from the usage stats

It has powers to make you into an Arceus of a type of your choosing

 

[nouthuca]

nouthuca Do you know why people use Hippowdon, Lucario, Dragonite together? What makes them good together? Doesn't sand interfere with Dragonite's ability?

Hippowdon, Lucario, Dragonite are one of the famous party that the concept of "Increase Attack Move".
Certainly Sand Stream and Multiscale is not good relationship.

I will write a movement of their battle way. :)

1,Choose the Hippowdon as the first Pokemon.
2,Hippowdon will be defeated by opponent after it use the Stealth Rock, Yawn.(Hippowdon will must be defeated by opponent.)
3,Select the Dragonite after the Hippowdon fell, and then select Dragon Dance. Since Dragonite is not yet damaged by Sand Stream, opponent's attack will be halved by the Multiscale. If the opponent did not attack, the function of Multiscale is lost at the end of the turn. In either case, Dragonite that rose Attack and Speed will be ready.
4,Dragonite is ready, and opponents that the function of FocusSash, Study and Multiscale are impaired by Stealth Rock are ready. After that Dragonite will defeat all of opponents.

Multiscale is sufficient that functionality to the one turn of Dragon Dance, and opponents to defeat Dragonite of Multiscale is not functioning with Dragon Dance will receive a lot of damage. Even if Dragonite did not defeat all of opponents, they that has been damaged will be defeated by Lucario.
As a more aggressive choices, players may give Life Orb to Dragonite.(Of course, Life Orb will impair the function of Multiscale.)

Also, the app you made, what else does it have? Aside from the usage stats

My app to record the match, and gives a hint to the user by analyzing it.
What Pokemon is that causes the user loses?
When user select a Pokemon, How much did user win?
The app offers information in order to refine the parties on user.
For statistical information other than Pokemon appeared Ranking is to become intended for each user, there is nothing useful even by summing them.
(I wonder there is a sense in the average of winning rate when players use Genger who have adopted Gengar as ace and who have adopted Gengar no reason?)
I want to advertise my app, but no sense is because only Japanese. XD

 

[Melon Vodka]

2k+ rating teams for season 10 are up

http://aaaapokemon.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-141.html
).

Upff, I wanna rip..err.. Take for a while some of these teams, but it is hard to understand kanjis lol

 

[Memoria]

In doing google translate for some of the teams, came across Mega-Lucario on the second team (http://soropoke7777.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-2.html), looks like it is mixed, would anyone be able to confirm what the nature / moves are? Would be much appreciated.

So far:
ルカリオ＠ルカリオナイト
むじゃきCS
インファイト、ラスターカノン、悪の波動、悪巧み

GoogleTranslates into:
Lucario Lucario @ Night
Innocence CS
In Fight, raster canon, evil wave, intrigue

Assuming it's Naive natured, [Close Combat, Flash Cannon, Dark Pulse, ?], any clarifications?

Thanks.

 

[bobochan]

In doing google translate for some of the teams, came across Mega-Lucario on the second team (http://soropoke7777.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-2.html), looks like it is mixed, would anyone be able to confirm what the nature / moves are? Would be much appreciated.

So far:
ルカリオ＠ルカリオナイト
むじゃきCS
インファイト、ラスターカノン、悪の波動、悪巧み

GoogleTranslates into:
Lucario Lucario @ Night
Innocence CS
In Fight, raster canon, evil wave, intrigue

Assuming it's Naive natured, [Close Combat, Flash Cannon, Dark Pulse, ?], any clarifications?

Thanks.

I believe Naive nature is correct, last slot should be Nasty Plot.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

I believe Naive nature is correct, last slot should be Nasty Plot.

Can confirm the last is Nasty Plot. Nature is Naive.

When in doubt, check Bulbapedia and see if the move/nature you think it is lines up with the Japanese equivalent they list. Sometimes kanji will get in the way, but if you plug that into Google first, you should be able to get the kana (the smaller syllabic characters) to check.

Being able to read Japanese helps, but in general you should be able to figure out the teams here just with Google translate and reasonable guesses at English equivalents. It's definitely worth trying them out. I've been playing around a bit on the Singles ladder on Showdown with the #5 team. Unfortunately I'm junk at singles.

Also, there are a ton of Japanese players on that Showdown ladder. Way more than I realized.

 

[Melon Vodka]

2k+ rating teams for season 10 are up

http://aaaapokemon.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-141.html

Err, is there something like this just for VGC?

 

[NOVED]

Err, is there something like this just for VGC?

There's nugget bridge that has reports for teams that were successful in tournaments

 

[DragonWhale]

Also, there are a ton of Japanese players on that Showdown ladder. Way more than I realized.

There are quite a number of users on the top 500 that are Japanese, but most of them are alts of a few people (e.g. all the names ending in -poke is one guy).

 

[Melon Vodka]

In doing google translate for some of the teams.

me too but:
メガエルレイド　＠メガ石　正義の心→精神力
インファイト/思念の頭突き/冷凍パンチ/雷パンチorアンコール
陽気　努力値:A12振り、Sぶっぱ、残りH

Mega Erureido @ Mega stone justice of mind → mental strength
In Fight / thoughts of head-butting / Frozen Punch / thunder punch or Angkor
Cheerful effort value: A12 swing, S Buppa, remaining H

I suppose this is Mega gallade @ Galladite
Justice becomes Inner Focus
Close combat - zen headbutt - Ice punch - Thunder Punch / Encore
Jolly.. and here's the trouble, is that 12 atk, 252 spe and what remains in hp?

This is the team: http://ch.nicovideo.jp/hamayu_unison/blomaga/ar833542

 

[Melon Vodka]

Err, is not there anyone that can help me?

 

[NOVED]

Yes, your translations were correct. He has 12 attack on his Gallade because it guarantees an ohko on max hp mega kanga, and the rest went into HP to help bulk im assuming. The HP does help you live blaziken flare blitz, kanga return(double edge can still kill) and other things as well.

 

[Pyritie]

Jolly.. and here's the trouble, is that 12 atk, 252 spe and what remains in hp?

If it helps, the japanese format EVs with "HABCDS", where H is HP, A is Atk, B is Def, C is SpA, D is SpD, and S is Speed.

 

[Melon Vodka]

If it helps, the japanese format EVs with "HABCDS", where H is HP, A is Atk, B is Def, C is SpA, D is SpD, and S is Speed.

Ohoh, yeah dude, this will help me for sure. Thanks!