lol oops. I seem to shy from mega gyarados and scizor, because the stat and ability change isn't as drastic and their role/function doesn't change.
I love mega beedrill he's so cool, but he seems more suited for singles.
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[Online Competition] Scrappy Skirmish
- Thread starter DragonWhale
- Start date
You have a point, however he doesn't really stand out in a 3v3 metagame. That's why like no one uses him.
I'm working on 2 strats right now. 1 is 2 tailwind supports with 2 strong attackers. The other is fake out/sky drop space making for set up sweepers. Any idea when this will be on showdown? I'm building teams without checks in mind for the banned common pokemon, and want to test them as such.
PumpedAaron brought to my attention the existence of No Guard Fissure in this comp. I think it'll be able to run rampant if left unchecked. What do you guys think?
How?
There are a bunch of different ways. The most easy, as far as I see, is Role Play Landorus-T + Machamp. Lando copies No Guard, spams Fissure. ez.
Well Landorus-t is banned anyway. The most common way to abuse this is Role Play Sheer Cold Smeargle with Machamp.
Derp, forgot about that. It's the same concept though: copy No Guard and start the spam.
I should mention that my initial stating of this gimmick involved Wormadam and Trick Room. Wormadam has Sturdy, never mind, just use Focus Sash, so as long as you can avoid double-targeting, and priority attacks, you should be great.
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Many of the things people are complaining about are the things I'm excited about for this competition.
Rotom is banned...so are all of the "powerhouses" found on pretty much every doubles team. Not that I play doubles often, but it's just so annoying to run into the same teams over and over and over again. This format is going to force people to actually think a little instead of picking the pokemon with the highest base stat total or best competitive usage (as many of them are banned) to powerhouse their way through the meta.
Though, I am disappointed that they didn't wait until after the Spooky Cup to make the ban list, and that some of the secondary powerhouses are still viable (such as Zapdos). Frankly, I actually think there aren't enough "top" pokemon on the ban list (Speed Boost Mega Blaziken, for example).
Aw, heck...I'm just excited for there to be a competition with no freak'n Rotom on practically every team. It was the overuse of Rotom which made me stop playing in the Pikachu Cup (got tired of seeing one on every team); I know it's competitively excellent, but it's BORING to see the same stuff all the time.
I'm considering my team right now...I have a couple odd ideas. I don't expect to crack the top rankings (I never do, anyway), but I'm gonna have fun with this and try out all sorts of different ideas I've been considering since I got bored in the Spooky Cup.
Honestly, I really hope I never run into anyone who uses anything remotely similar to that. Man...and I thought cookie-cutter teams were cheap wins. No Guard + Sheer Cold has got to be the cheapest way to win I've ever heard of. If someone started to use that on me, I'd either hyper-target the Smeargle or just forfeit. I actually find it hard to believe that someone would want to get to the top/win so badly they'd use such a cheap win-con.
Granted, Smeargle is frail as heck, but it could at least take out one of the opponent's pokemon, two if a person's lucky or the opponent doesn't realize the danger. Still cheap, though.
Rotom is banned...so are all of the "powerhouses" found on pretty much every doubles team. Not that I play doubles often, but it's just so annoying to run into the same teams over and over and over again. This format is going to force people to actually think a little instead of picking the pokemon with the highest base stat total or best competitive usage (as many of them are banned) to powerhouse their way through the meta.
Though, I am disappointed that they didn't wait until after the Spooky Cup to make the ban list, and that some of the secondary powerhouses are still viable (such as Zapdos). Frankly, I actually think there aren't enough "top" pokemon on the ban list (Speed Boost Mega Blaziken, for example).
Aw, heck...I'm just excited for there to be a competition with no freak'n Rotom on practically every team. It was the overuse of Rotom which made me stop playing in the Pikachu Cup (got tired of seeing one on every team); I know it's competitively excellent, but it's BORING to see the same stuff all the time.
I'm considering my team right now...I have a couple odd ideas. I don't expect to crack the top rankings (I never do, anyway), but I'm gonna have fun with this and try out all sorts of different ideas I've been considering since I got bored in the Spooky Cup.
That's got to be the most unsportsmanlike thing to do in the history of Pokemon, ever.
Honestly, I really hope I never run into anyone who uses anything remotely similar to that. Man...and I thought cookie-cutter teams were cheap wins. No Guard + Sheer Cold has got to be the cheapest way to win I've ever heard of. If someone started to use that on me, I'd either hyper-target the Smeargle or just forfeit. I actually find it hard to believe that someone would want to get to the top/win so badly they'd use such a cheap win-con.
Granted, Smeargle is frail as heck, but it could at least take out one of the opponent's pokemon, two if a person's lucky or the opponent doesn't realize the danger. Still cheap, though.
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Abomasnow learns sheer cold and role play. But this strat takes 2 pokemon and 1 turn so that 1 bad pokemon can do single target KO's. Not that scary to me. I hate dealing with trick room/tailwind more.
Well the fact that Mega Metagross and rain go almost completely unopposed means I'm not so sure about this banlist forcing a lot of variety, I'd expect a flood (pun intended) of Mega Metagross rain teams since those are a popular archetype for Mega Metagross teams in VGC. It'll definitely change up the stuff that people are using though so if you're just tired of seeing the same top threats then there's still that. Not sure Spooky Cup would've changed things too much though, besides losing Volcarona which isn't a huge loss comparatively. Maybe Weavile and Liepard (are they popular in Spooky Cup?) but those are niche threats that you'd kind of want to get a chance at the spotlight and not banned.
Blaziken isn't really a "top" threat in VGC normally (definitely a cool anti-meta choice though) though and that's the kind of Pokemon I'd want to get a chance in a competition like this, but seeing as its niche was being able to cover a ton of the biggest threats in one slot (it beats all of Landorus-T, Kang, Aegislash, Amoonguss, Mence, Heatran, Charizard Y if Rock Slide, Bisharp, Hydreigon and Terrakion but guess which of these are not banned?) and has a tough matchup against rain, I don't think Blaziken will be an overbearing threat you'll see every other battle.
As I stated in the other thread, they probably should have taken it a step further and banned anything with a Base stat over 500 or so. Because I don't know about anyone else, but I wouldn't call Mega Metagross, a Poke with stats soaring to the 700's, "Scrappy"...>_<
The Poke I'm the most happy about not seeing though is Talonflame. Now every participant won't have to add hard counter for it so this freaking turkey won't sweep their whole team! If you can blame one reason for the explosion in Rotom use, it's that thing.
And about Smeargle: it blows, but only if you're not prepared for it. I learned that the hard way in a battle spot singles match on ORAS where a Smeargle user spored my lead, used Geomancy, and Baton Passed all the stat boost to a AssaultVest Goodra which of course was impossible to take down at that point. It PO'ed me at first but then I realized it's easily stoppable.
I actually played someone in the Primal cup who tried to Dark Void me with one (which I believe puts both opposing Pokes to sleep in doubles?) but I stopped it cold with a Taunt from Thundurus, OHKO'ed the thing, and I believe I ended up sweeping his team (it was 3-0 at minimal). I still have it saved if you want me to upload it. Probably my favorite moment playing these things thus far.
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Yea...I'm seeing a plethora of rain teams on Showdown. Also ran into a sun team, and a couple trick room teams. Seems as if most teams are using those sort of teams, or whatever powerhouses they can still get their hands on. So, on the other hand, I'm getting tired of seeing some of the 'mons which are starting to become common even now. XD
Spore Breloom seems popular, along with Dark Void Smeargle. Zapdos is everywhere, and the two megas I've seen most often are Altaria and Metagross.
Agreed. Already seen some Virizion, Cobalion, Raikou, Tornadus...not to mention Zapdos is the new Rotom as it seems to be everywhere.
But, yea...I agree. I don't exactly consider those sort of pokemon as "scrappy". They're (pseudo) legendaries, for crying out loud...hardly scrappy (I did beat a couple of teams with said pokes on them with my non-powerhouse team I'm having fun with, but still...).
I've been testing a sun team, and it's been doing okay. The only problem is getting the sun set up, because Ninetales can't do much after it activates drought, and everything else is vulnerable the turn sunny day is used. Once M-Houndoom and one chlorophyll mon can get the sun up they are almost unstoppable, but once the sun goes out it dramatically reduces my team's speed and power. Sun vs. rain is always interesting, but I've been getting better at that. Here's my team so far
Obviously, I still need something non-sun and I've been lazy with the EVs for now. Any feedback or suggestions would be great.
Houndoom-Mega @ Houndoominite
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Heat Wave
- Solar Beam
- Protect
- Nasty Plot
Jumpluff @ Mental Herb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Helping Hand
- Sunny Day
- Sleep Powder
- Grass Knot
Exeggutor @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Solar Beam
- Psychic
- Protect
- Grassy Terrain
Ninetales @ Eject Button
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Overheat
- Disable
- Solar Beam
- Fire Blast
Leafeon
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Knock Off
- Sunny Day
- Protect
Basically, Ninetales is the easiest way to get sun, if it looks like it might be hard. M-Houndoom is fast and very powerful in the sun. Jumpluff provides support, and spamming sleep powder is fun, despite the low accuracy. Exeggutor is surprisingly powerful and still fast with chlorophyll. Leafeon is an alternative chlorophyll attacker and can still function without sun.
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Heat Wave
- Solar Beam
- Protect
- Nasty Plot
Jumpluff @ Mental Herb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Helping Hand
- Sunny Day
- Sleep Powder
- Grass Knot
Exeggutor @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Solar Beam
- Psychic
- Protect
- Grassy Terrain
Ninetales @ Eject Button
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Overheat
- Disable
- Solar Beam
- Fire Blast
Leafeon
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Knock Off
- Sunny Day
- Protect
Basically, Ninetales is the easiest way to get sun, if it looks like it might be hard. M-Houndoom is fast and very powerful in the sun. Jumpluff provides support, and spamming sleep powder is fun, despite the low accuracy. Exeggutor is surprisingly powerful and still fast with chlorophyll. Leafeon is an alternative chlorophyll attacker and can still function without sun.
Obviously, I still need something non-sun and I've been lazy with the EVs for now. Any feedback or suggestions would be great.
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Oh it's been so long since I've used Ninetales.
Allow me to conjure something from the dark days of BW2. Seems odd, I know, but it's relevent in a way I will soon explain:
Ninetales @ Shuca Berry
Timid, 92 HP, 228 Sp. Atk, 188 Speed
- Fire Blast
- Role Play
- Sunny Day
- Solarbeam
Timid, 92 HP, 228 Sp. Atk, 188 Speed
- Fire Blast
- Role Play
- Sunny Day
- Solarbeam
This is my greatest Ninetales; the legend of old.
Here's what she does:
The Speed outruns Jolly, max Speed Landorus-T (which is basically the fastest thing you'll ever have to care about, Speed tieing Khan and such is entirely useless), and everything slower. With Tailwind, you outrun Scarfed Aerodactyl. Because fuck yes.
The bulk, with Sitrus Berry, allows you to tank Earthquake from Adamant LO Excadrill, and Earth Power from Sheer Force LO Earth Power from Modest Landorus-I. You won't believe how often that will surprise people.
The Sp. Atk, though it looks like a remainder, very specifically allows you to 2HKO 252/0 Politoed and most Rotom-W variants with Solarbeam (thank Talos it was not lowered in base power like every other Special attack in the Gen 5-> 6 transition). After all of those benchmarks, there is no remainder. I went nuts with Ninetales back in the day :P
Role Play, I quite literally invented a new niche for Ninetales, along with innumerable furry roleplay jokes.
Role Play lets you copy Chlorophyll from your own team, Levitate, Intimidate, Prankster, Lightningrod (you would not believe how much shit a LR Ninetales walls), and all kinds of goodies from foes; I once forced my opponent to quit by tanking his Scarf Hydreigon's Earth Power, and then using Role Play. It ignores Protect and Sub as well, so there is no cockblocking issues.
However, I'm probably one of extremely few people (perhaps even the only person) that knows how to truly abuse it, so I'd suggest Protect over Role Play if you want a simpler, more generalized set, or have few allied abilities to abuse. Solar Power Ninetales could be funny too.
Fire Blast is obvious STAB, and the only way Ninetales will ever KO something. Her Heat Wave is weak, Overheat doesn't KO anything relevent that I have ever found. Flamethrower is weak and single target.
Anyway, try that Ninetales set; it's still relevent even after years of metagame evolution thanks to Toed, Excadrill, Lucario, grass types, etc. still existing in this meta.
Chlorophyll allies, Exeggutor is probably the best bet, though we also have:
- Shiftry. Fake Out, STAB Knock Off, and great mixed potential.
- Tangrowth. Very similar to Eggy, minus the Psychic STAB + weaknesses, and mixed potential with Power Whip / Rock Slide. I used it with my Tales, but mostly because of Grass Gem :s
- Leafeon is probably the best physical sweeper, and outruns+KO's Toed in its own element and should handle Mega Swampy.
- Vileplume, though inferior to Venusaur, does not have to compete with Venusaur or Amoonguss at all anymore. Keep this in mind guys. Also has Moonblast to hit Dragon/Dark/Fighting.
- Victreebel. It always stood apart from Venusaur with mixed potential, and Weather Ball for nice coverage in a meta devoid of prominent Fire mons (Charizard, Heatran, Rotom-H, Talonflame, all banned).
After that I'd get something to deal with Zapdos (or use Lightningrod, LR Ninetales > Zapdos), and probably MegaGross since it's not that weird to see in Rain especially with MegaMence gone. Don't need 2+ Chloro mons; Ninetales always was the weakest Weather setter (well, other than Abomasnow) so you need to be able to function without Sun. Ninetales isn't bulky. It can be a troll, but that's about the pinnacle of its usefulness.
MegaGross, I guess Scizor (Knock Off), Ferrothorn, Gyarados, Swampert, Gastrodon (moar Role Play fodder), Krookodile, etc.
Your own Mega, hell, why not go MegaDoom if you're using Ninetales. Tales + Doom + Eggy + Swampy could be a fun core.
Mega Houndoom thugh, Nasty Plot is an insant GG and all, but good luck setting that up without a redirector (all of which are banned except the redundant Volcarona). Dark Pulse for STAB might be a tad better.
Exeggutor... Grassy Terrain is something I like to dick around with in the Maison or unranked matches, but again, too hard to set up. The power would be nuts though.
Energy Ball or Leaf Storm for secondary STAB could be useful, as you don't want to Solarbeam something in the Rain (or a Toed switchin).
Ninetales set above, Protect/Role Play is your choice.
Houndoom @ Houndoomite
Timid, 4 HP, 252 Sp. Atk, 252 Speed
Ability: Flash Fire -> Solar Power
- Heat Wave
- Protect
- Solarbeam
- Dark Pulse
Exeggutor @ Life Orb
Modest, 252 Sp. Atk, 100 Sp. def, 156 Speed
Ability: Cholorophyll
- Solarbeam
- Protect
- Leaf Storm / Energy Ball / Sleep Powder
- Psychic / Psyshock
Outruns +120 (Max Speed, Timid Alakazam) in the Sun, while Speed creeping uninvested Hitmontop by about 5 points without Sun.
Sp. Def remainder reduces the odds of Timid/Bold Zapdos' Heat Wave KOing you so you can get an extra Psychic on it.
If you just want 252/252/4 that's fine as well. Tanks Max Attack Adamant Mega Swampert's Ice Punch even with no investment at all.
Rest of the team needs a Mega Metagross counter (Houndoom / Ninetales is only a check) and it's pretty open ended after that.
Houndoom @ Houndoomite
Timid, 4 HP, 252 Sp. Atk, 252 Speed
Ability: Flash Fire -> Solar Power
- Heat Wave
- Protect
- Solarbeam
- Dark Pulse
Exeggutor @ Life Orb
Modest, 252 Sp. Atk, 100 Sp. def, 156 Speed
Ability: Cholorophyll
- Solarbeam
- Protect
- Leaf Storm / Energy Ball / Sleep Powder
- Psychic / Psyshock
Outruns +120 (Max Speed, Timid Alakazam) in the Sun, while Speed creeping uninvested Hitmontop by about 5 points without Sun.
Sp. Def remainder reduces the odds of Timid/Bold Zapdos' Heat Wave KOing you so you can get an extra Psychic on it.
If you just want 252/252/4 that's fine as well. Tanks Max Attack Adamant Mega Swampert's Ice Punch even with no investment at all.
Rest of the team needs a Mega Metagross counter (Houndoom / Ninetales is only a check) and it's pretty open ended after that.
Most common things I'm encountering in this meta (in order):
-Azumarill (Belly Drum set); paired with either a Follow Me pokemon (Togekiss, Clefairy/Clefable, Smeargle), or a Rage Powder pokemon (typically Volcarona)
-Trick Room teams
-Metagross (normal and Mega)
I'm not seeing as many pokemon running Taunt as I saw when it first started. Have also barely seen a Rain team since the first couple days, though I have seen one or two Sun teams; Weather teams aren't as common as they used to be.
Smeargle used to be really common, but not as much as before. I usually see Dark Void or Follow Me ones when they do pop up, though there's the occasional Baton Pass Smeargle.
Starting to see more Hitmontop usage, as well.
I'm still playing around with team builds to find a team that I like using, which works, and is fun. As long as I'm having fun with a team and it has at least a 1:1 W:L ratio (a 2:1 ratio is preferred), I'll probably go with it since I'm doing this mostly for fun.
At this point, I'd settle for a 1:1 ratio...no matter what team I build, I just can't seem to win lately. Had no problem at least winning 2:1 a couple days ago, but now I'm getting stomped and having second thoughts about entering the actual competition. -_-
-Azumarill (Belly Drum set); paired with either a Follow Me pokemon (Togekiss, Clefairy/Clefable, Smeargle), or a Rage Powder pokemon (typically Volcarona)
-Trick Room teams
-Metagross (normal and Mega)
I'm not seeing as many pokemon running Taunt as I saw when it first started. Have also barely seen a Rain team since the first couple days, though I have seen one or two Sun teams; Weather teams aren't as common as they used to be.
Smeargle used to be really common, but not as much as before. I usually see Dark Void or Follow Me ones when they do pop up, though there's the occasional Baton Pass Smeargle.
Starting to see more Hitmontop usage, as well.
I'm still playing around with team builds to find a team that I like using, which works, and is fun. As long as I'm having fun with a team and it has at least a 1:1 W:L ratio (a 2:1 ratio is preferred), I'll probably go with it since I'm doing this mostly for fun.
At this point, I'd settle for a 1:1 ratio...no matter what team I build, I just can't seem to win lately. Had no problem at least winning 2:1 a couple days ago, but now I'm getting stomped and having second thoughts about entering the actual competition. -_-
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So I'm getting the itch for this one and I'm pondering the viability of a few mons. That is Reuniclus, Exploud and Granbull. Reun seems to be the new OU darling while Exploud seem to have the perfect one move-ability combo in Scrappy Boomburst (Specs?). That paired with a Telepathy user seems interesting to me. Or maybe a AV holder.
I'm rubbish at building teams but the VGC section makes mention of this so it shouldnt be so tough.
I'm rubbish at building teams but the VGC section makes mention of this so it shouldnt be so tough.
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Maybe you can build it better than me, but I tried out Life Orb Exploud, and it was really more support damage than the strong hits I expected (prolly cause Exploud has a rather low Sp.A compared to others in the meta). Put max 252 in Sp.A, plus a Modest nature, and it still needed to strike 2-3 times to KO mons (even supported with Helping Hand).
For Reuniclus and Granbull, perhaps a trick room team?
You really need to use Choice Specs with Exploud to make it work. It won't OHKO everything but I occasionally got a first turn double OHKO during the Spooky Cup competition. The only things that bothered me were Focus Sash, bulky mons, Protect, and faster leads even after Tailwind that could OHKO Exploud.
Any Pokémon with a pentagon marking can be used, meaning that Pokémon that are only obtainable in Pokémon X and Y are usable as well as stuff that can be found in OR/AS.
Speaking of: Any hard counters in the meta? It causes major issues for my team.
I'm testing Dragonite, but he can't do anything major to it without a boast.