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NOC Deathnote NOC Mafia - GAME OVER, Postgame in #714
- Thread starter Blazade
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Also this talk about merlin claiming just makes it fucking easier for mafia to narrow down kills so I'm just going to say stop fucking talking about this
what do i have to reread?
mafia guess everyones role each night and kill correct guesses etc etc
it doesnt matter. merlin outs 3 townies. in exchange, we get rid of two scum. i thought about it though - merlin shouldnt claim until deathnote is lynched. at that point analyze the situation. mafia look REALLY powerful in this setup but whatever. however, i still think haruno's discussion of it is pro-town in essence.
twin, may i also note you were against discussion of this genre in steven snype's game when you said town shouldnt discuss terrorists kills and all that? and you were scum then? i have you slightly on the town side here, but wavery.
mafia guess everyones role each night and kill correct guesses etc etc
it doesnt matter. merlin outs 3 townies. in exchange, we get rid of two scum. i thought about it though - merlin shouldnt claim until deathnote is lynched. at that point analyze the situation. mafia look REALLY powerful in this setup but whatever. however, i still think haruno's discussion of it is pro-town in essence.
twin, may i also note you were against discussion of this genre in steven snype's game when you said town shouldnt discuss terrorists kills and all that? and you were scum then? i have you slightly on the town side here, but wavery.
I said that speculating that the terrorists have 0 kills is a extremely retarded thing to plan around and put pressure on fh in that game also the chances mafia wins instantly get boosted probably more than twice once merlin gets outed because of the entire extra final guess
Been rolling around in bed for an hour now and can't sleep (yay) but been thinking
Texas isn't scum, just misguided. His posts have noobie genuity to them. Texas, what you're experience is confbias. This happens to most players of all skill levels and can be hard to overcome. Try to look past it; it can ruin your game for you.
Twin, what was your reason for voting Texas there?
Texas isn't scum, just misguided. His posts have noobie genuity to them. Texas, what you're experience is confbias. This happens to most players of all skill levels and can be hard to overcome. Try to look past it; it can ruin your game for you.
Twin, what was your reason for voting Texas there?
Also Texas, because I know me saying that isn't enough:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=69562
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=69509
I can't discuss these because they're ongoing. That said, read my isos. I am new to mafia too and am trying new playstyles while adapting my own. The later end of my iso on the first one shows me doing exactly what I'm doing now, spamming to get an obvious scum lynched without much explanation and none initially. The second game contains a bare reads post after I sub in and casually fosing/fucking around with little explanation. I can't state my alignment; mathematically it is very unlikely I'm scum in both which should reassure you that's how I play as town. If you don't know, confbias is thinking you know something and matching everything to that. You think I'm scum so you interpret whatever I do as scummy regardless of whether or not it is. You need to look past that.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=69562
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=69509
I can't discuss these because they're ongoing. That said, read my isos. I am new to mafia too and am trying new playstyles while adapting my own. The later end of my iso on the first one shows me doing exactly what I'm doing now, spamming to get an obvious scum lynched without much explanation and none initially. The second game contains a bare reads post after I sub in and casually fosing/fucking around with little explanation. I can't state my alignment; mathematically it is very unlikely I'm scum in both which should reassure you that's how I play as town. If you don't know, confbias is thinking you know something and matching everything to that. You think I'm scum so you interpret whatever I do as scummy regardless of whether or not it is. You need to look past that.
Asek
Banned deucer.
On harunos claiming idea...
This has already been established but this is a horrible idea. We sacrifice Merlin and another crucial townie in denying mafia info for 2 of their members.... so what? The power these 2 held is then given to the remaining mafia man and now that hes flying solo its a lot harder to try link that mafia to any team member or anything, effectively making scum hunting for that last person a lot harder. Its been debunked pretty hard but just for suggesting this I'm wary of haruno this game....
And I flip pages and haruno is still suggesting the claim game. Don’t Do this again.
And I flick through and the discussion is stagnating around merlin. Let me tell y'all once and for all why merlin claiming is the most horrendously shithouse idea possible right now.
Mafia Cannot kill without an attaching the name to the role. The whole concept of merlin being randed at this point is pretty much a 0 possibility (read: we would be extremely EXTREMELY unlucky) of merlin getting killed anytime before night 3. Stop bringing up merlin being randed as a reason for merlin to claim, this a fucking horrible idea, and the discussion that keeps flowing around merlin only makes mafia being able to pinpoint a merlin MORE likely, through tells they can see on them. The merlin claim should never ever happen due to how powerful that extra guess is (in fact i would argue ALL claiming should be outlawed in this game for lategame reasons but thats whatever). You are continuously dragging this game through a cycle where we arent doing ANY scumhunting and just playing into mafia hands by continuously discussing this merlin rubbish. Stop. Doing. It. NOW.
Next time someone brings up merlin claiming i lynch them. No questions asked.
And a question I leave before I go to bed, any specific interactions so far in this game have certain vibes for people? I'm going to scope more of this shit out tomorrow, but Josh against Texas is something I feel I need to read further into.
This has already been established but this is a horrible idea. We sacrifice Merlin and another crucial townie in denying mafia info for 2 of their members.... so what? The power these 2 held is then given to the remaining mafia man and now that hes flying solo its a lot harder to try link that mafia to any team member or anything, effectively making scum hunting for that last person a lot harder. Its been debunked pretty hard but just for suggesting this I'm wary of haruno this game....
And I flip pages and haruno is still suggesting the claim game. Don’t Do this again.
And I flick through and the discussion is stagnating around merlin. Let me tell y'all once and for all why merlin claiming is the most horrendously shithouse idea possible right now.
Mafia Cannot kill without an attaching the name to the role. The whole concept of merlin being randed at this point is pretty much a 0 possibility (read: we would be extremely EXTREMELY unlucky) of merlin getting killed anytime before night 3. Stop bringing up merlin being randed as a reason for merlin to claim, this a fucking horrible idea, and the discussion that keeps flowing around merlin only makes mafia being able to pinpoint a merlin MORE likely, through tells they can see on them. The merlin claim should never ever happen due to how powerful that extra guess is (in fact i would argue ALL claiming should be outlawed in this game for lategame reasons but thats whatever). You are continuously dragging this game through a cycle where we arent doing ANY scumhunting and just playing into mafia hands by continuously discussing this merlin rubbish. Stop. Doing. It. NOW.
Next time someone brings up merlin claiming i lynch them. No questions asked.
And a question I leave before I go to bed, any specific interactions so far in this game have certain vibes for people? I'm going to scope more of this shit out tomorrow, but Josh against Texas is something I feel I need to read further into.
I stopped getting notifications from this thread and i simply thought this game was the dead-est NOC ever. I was busy.
second of all Josh you're cool and all but what the fuck is up with you and triple posting this game??? lmao. It almost feels like you are just posting content to have it here...
also what the fuck is this talk of claiming and NO LYNCH lmao. I don't think merlin claiming right now is a good idea. It would really make me feel uncomfortable. I highly suggest town does not claim and we think carefully about our lynch today, more than the usual first day of NOC. This game is really swingy, so let's keep that in the backs of our mind.
As a last note I really don't think referring to other games is beneficial even to prove a point as Josh tried to do because the rules of this game are so DRASTICALLY different than literally every other NOC. It takes away claiming, one of the pillars of mafia itself. as far as player meta goes, josh usually uses more aTE :^) but we can't base anything off of player meta simply because of this rule change.
second of all Josh you're cool and all but what the fuck is up with you and triple posting this game??? lmao. It almost feels like you are just posting content to have it here...
also what the fuck is this talk of claiming and NO LYNCH lmao. I don't think merlin claiming right now is a good idea. It would really make me feel uncomfortable. I highly suggest town does not claim and we think carefully about our lynch today, more than the usual first day of NOC. This game is really swingy, so let's keep that in the backs of our mind.
As a last note I really don't think referring to other games is beneficial even to prove a point as Josh tried to do because the rules of this game are so DRASTICALLY different than literally every other NOC. It takes away claiming, one of the pillars of mafia itself. as far as player meta goes, josh usually uses more aTE :^) but we can't base anything off of player meta simply because of this rule change.
I double and triple post in every game
And I linked those for a point of reference. I didn't state my alignment, it's not meant to get a read on me, it's meant to show that's how I've been playing
Keep in mind I've only been town once in smogon noc and I was killed n2, yall don't have experience with me due to how new I am. This game is a themed role madness, ofc it's different. Scum hunting still applies.
Asek, merlin dying n3 is - get this - still just as bad.
Okay I'm reading up rn
rvs is not code for shitposting, its code for generating discussion. you cant discuss out of nothing. the first post in the thread cant be a wallpost defining why twin or haruno are scum, as convenient as that would be.
here is why this post is bad
- trying NL is obvious lynchbait
- trying to lynch over a quoted edit from a clear newb when the original post is available and obviously not scum indicative (note what the post actually was because thats important - he was informed he couldnt do something and edited his post to exclude it. this is with the original post visible. this is not something scum indicative, this is a newb who doesnt understand smogon noc, and trying to lynch over it is fucking awful. the awfulness is amplified by the fact that he acknowledges it was quoted in his post!
- why would you vote texas for that?????? huh???? i get it, rvs, random votes. that is no excuse to fos someone when voting for seemingly legitimate reasons.
- btw, inventing a case and voting it while fosing randomly are huge scum indicators
- "And twin: wouldn't it be better to wait a cycle and see if the mafia kills them, or something? Or maybe something else, given the OTHER roles we have?" literal lol. its not "better", if someone claimed it could easily be a fake claim because if theyre claiming theyre allowing mafia to kill them for free anyways. mafia have technically got unlimited kills, and claiming is anti town.
and to everyone: if you are being wagoned save yourself by ways other than claiming. post a convincing case on someone! claiming is just as bad as getting lynched.
Woke up with a stomach ache, about to go back to bed.
Thetwinmasters There are no non unique roles here, so the only time there wouldn't be a counterclaim is if the CC is inactive. It'll come down to A vs B scenarios in those cases.
Thetwinmasters There are no non unique roles here, so the only time there wouldn't be a counterclaim is if the CC is inactive. It'll come down to A vs B scenarios in those cases.
Cut the condescending attitude Josh. I know what confirmation bias is, this isn't it, you're still scum.
Oh hey, I just got up, and I can finally see the case.
If he was lynchbaiting, then he's a lot more skilled than he could be, meaning coached meaning mafia. BUT you said he's clear newb, so not coached, so you're contradicting yourself (to a minor degree)
I was trying to make abundantly clear my opinion of editing.
I didn't vote for Texas, why do you say I did? And, if you'd actually bothered to read the discussion, you'd have noticed the part about how I missed a timestamp due to the host posting in between the two votes. And I wasn't FoS-ing for a semi-legit vote reason. I was FoS-ing for following some other guy TWICE and relatively quickly each time (I saw a post after returning, saw an alert, refreshed, saw the perceived sheep, twice.)
I wasn't inventing a case, though I admit (now that I've had a night to sleep on it) that I should probably Unvote. I also wasn't the only one who voted him for that, I was one of three. And my FoS wasn't random, as I explained. I was torn between which of them to vote.
Have you even READ our roles? Bodyguard and identity exchanger. I was thinking one of them could protect (or randomly not, make the mafia at least guess). So please forgive me for trying to start a discussion to try and find a good strategy. Yes, I might have been wrong, or I might not have, but you're the one accusing someone for trying to encourage good planning.
Lynch Josh
Scum don't need reasons. Oh, wait.
If he was lynchbaiting, then he's a lot more skilled than he could be, meaning coached meaning mafia. BUT you said he's clear newb, so not coached, so you're contradicting yourself (to a minor degree)
I was trying to make abundantly clear my opinion of editing.
I didn't vote for Texas, why do you say I did? And, if you'd actually bothered to read the discussion, you'd have noticed the part about how I missed a timestamp due to the host posting in between the two votes. And I wasn't FoS-ing for a semi-legit vote reason. I was FoS-ing for following some other guy TWICE and relatively quickly each time (I saw a post after returning, saw an alert, refreshed, saw the perceived sheep, twice.)
I wasn't inventing a case, though I admit (now that I've had a night to sleep on it) that I should probably Unvote. I also wasn't the only one who voted him for that, I was one of three. And my FoS wasn't random, as I explained. I was torn between which of them to vote.
Have you even READ our roles? Bodyguard and identity exchanger. I was thinking one of them could protect (or randomly not, make the mafia at least guess). So please forgive me for trying to start a discussion to try and find a good strategy. Yes, I might have been wrong, or I might not have, but you're the one accusing someone for trying to encourage good planning.
Lynch Josh
Scum don't need reasons. Oh, wait.
Asek's post has a scummy odor to it as well
how is explaining confbias condescending???
anyways hopefully you stop being vi but alas.
another post, more scum.
LYNCHBAIT. NOT LYNCHBAITING. LOL? the fuck is lynchbaiting? is that your way of saying reaction gauging?
nobody here wants editing mes amigo. his edited post was quoted. it was not malicious. your vote was terrible and you should feel terrible.
where did i say you voted for texas? i read the discussion. explain to me why that is fos worthy. on what planet is sheeping twice in rvs scummy? its irrelevant.
your vote was the worse by a significant margin. you should not have been torn there, there was no reason to vote texas there. in fact, lets go back to your epic lynchbaiting comment. he was lynchbait. lynchbait is good at hooking scum. so really, albeit unintentionally, he caught scum. good on ya hitmonleet.
i have already stated ive read the roles. there is no "finding a good strategy", speculating role strategy as a whole does exactly one thing in noc: allow scum to play around it. unless you #breakthesetup you should not be speculating it. merlin shouldnt be being discussed either, but i have to defend haruno here because hes obvtown and it hurts hes getting flack.
the first two arent even condescending lmfao
I'm going to also agree with the idea that Merlin claiming (well anyone really) is a pretty terrible idea in this game unless things change drastically. Trying to figure out a sensible numbers game here is practically impossible because we can realistically never know how many cycles we have left considering the mafia can just death note the entire game in one night. Any information provided to them jumps up the odds pretty dramatically as well.
I will also say that while I agree nothing Hitmonleet did was a huge mafia tell (note I never even voted for him), Josh jumping to his aid that strongly felt kinda weird to me. Now realistically I would be surprised if the mafia team buddied that hard on the first day, but it definitely rubbed me the wrong way.
So the conclusion of this is Haruno (and everybody else) needs to stop trying to get people to claim, and Josh + Hitmonleet is interesting to keep an eye on as things progress. I'll try to have more concrete reads on other other people in the next couple hours though.
I will also say that while I agree nothing Hitmonleet did was a huge mafia tell (note I never even voted for him), Josh jumping to his aid that strongly felt kinda weird to me. Now realistically I would be surprised if the mafia team buddied that hard on the first day, but it definitely rubbed me the wrong way.
So the conclusion of this is Haruno (and everybody else) needs to stop trying to get people to claim, and Josh + Hitmonleet is interesting to keep an eye on as things progress. I'll try to have more concrete reads on other other people in the next couple hours though.
They don't need to be a scum team for Josh to be buddying him, or vice-versa
the situation should read as hitmonleet looking townier and me looking scummier for whiteknighting
why did i jump to his aid? im relatively new here too. after playing on ms i realized just how much different smogon noc is; people here need to rely on meta less. but the point is, hitmonleet did a good job baiting scum, even though im 95% sure thats unintentional and just newbie being newbie. remember hoods everyone? where i was scum and pushed dentricos really hard for editing? and that person in question was also newb. now, dentricos ended up being vamp, but thats not really the point!
people are misinterpreting me i think. i dont read hitmonleet as townie, though aura flipping as scum would make him pretty clear town imo. i think texas is very likely town, and just tunnelling because hes a newer player while being a person who has an ego (hey condescending police, thats not an insult! its ok to have an ego!) outside of mafia regardless. hes going to admit hes wrong eventually, for now its pretty much just worth ignoring him. dont vote texas, though, itll click eventually. haruno is town because of the town in his discussion. as scum he would not be playing for a merlin claim like that, its not worth drawing the attention to yourself. most of the pl is lurking and the two non-aura scum are in that. the funny thing is i agree with texas, asek's post had a scummy tone to it. but randomly fosing is useless and for now im very very confident aura is flipping red so id rather we focus on that.
why did i jump to his aid? im relatively new here too. after playing on ms i realized just how much different smogon noc is; people here need to rely on meta less. but the point is, hitmonleet did a good job baiting scum, even though im 95% sure thats unintentional and just newbie being newbie. remember hoods everyone? where i was scum and pushed dentricos really hard for editing? and that person in question was also newb. now, dentricos ended up being vamp, but thats not really the point!
people are misinterpreting me i think. i dont read hitmonleet as townie, though aura flipping as scum would make him pretty clear town imo. i think texas is very likely town, and just tunnelling because hes a newer player while being a person who has an ego (hey condescending police, thats not an insult! its ok to have an ego!) outside of mafia regardless. hes going to admit hes wrong eventually, for now its pretty much just worth ignoring him. dont vote texas, though, itll click eventually. haruno is town because of the town in his discussion. as scum he would not be playing for a merlin claim like that, its not worth drawing the attention to yourself. most of the pl is lurking and the two non-aura scum are in that. the funny thing is i agree with texas, asek's post had a scummy tone to it. but randomly fosing is useless and for now im very very confident aura is flipping red so id rather we focus on that.
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