Anyways, there are plenty of solid threats that can beat the shit outta Garchomp.
Yeah and everything you listed involves multiple pokemon, and losing at least one of those pokemon. Then there's 80% sand veil bla bla
I think the people who want Garchomp banned are just sour at their experiences. If you can't manage to get around Garchomp, you either have poor team building skills or you are just incompetent.
Please tell me that this is a joke.
Really? Wobbuffet was broken because of its ability to take the game back into the wobbuffet's user's control the second it came into play. Wobbuffet does not "react" to your opponent - the opponent has to "react" to Wobbuffet the second it comes into play - I'm pretty sure people have commented on this on the old wobbuffet thread. The point is wobbuffet creates free turns for any Pokemon in your party, not just the Pokemon currently in play, that was what was deemed "dangerous". If you think switching in Wobbuffet means "you are a step behind" then maybe you yourself are a little behind in terms of arguments
Wobbuffet's speed and movepool dictate that it must react to the opponent's attacks, regardless of what options your opponent has. Wobbuffet is doing all of the reacting so that your next pokemon can use that free turn to clean up. You are the one who said that reacting to your opponent gives them a step ahead, and since Wobbuffet is forced to react to the opponent I put two and two together based on your own implications here. I really don't need the personal attacks when you are the one who has it backwards in this instance.
Now, for your other "points". I would bother addressing them if you haven't already corrupted with your ideology about how every "theory" about the damn game must support the fact that Garchomp is uber - there really isn't a point in "debating" with you considering I have already pointed out to you many times that you lost objectivity, and thus, the "right" to be taken seriously in threads such as this. What you are doing right now is overcomplicating my points more than it needs to be.
I'm not debating Garchomp here, I'm just applying it here since it's the most obvious example of people using the "no counters" argument. I'm not overcomplicating your points, I'm pointing out that they simply don't apply to every situation and really can't be used as an end-all solution in team building or in analysing the game.
Nice attempt to turn this into a "Garchomp" debate, btw. Come back when you are ready to see the game seriously. I mean when you say shit like
"Fuck Yache Chomp has no fucking counters! Run for it!"
What you essentially just said is "Once Garchomp comes into play, it is gg". And I'm pretty damn sure this isn't true. And you act like you ALWAYS have to sacrifice two Pokemon for it - funny, I've taken Garchomp with only sacrificing one, or even less! - sacrificing Pokemon X so my other Pokemon can kill it! Sacrificing one of my Pokemon for one of theirs? If this is a bad trade, then why the hell would people go out of the way for suicide leads?
Oh give me a break. You are smart enough to realize that the most painfully obvious application of this thread is the Garchomp debate, although it also does apply to things like Aerodactyl in UU.
...and actually I do think that suicide leads are retarded. At least you can't say I'm being inconsistent!! I really can't explain why people would make that bad of a trade so sorry small fruit but I can't answer your last question here :(
Now, I assumed that you would be rational and not claim that nothing can EVER switch into Garchomp so it can kill it the next turn - which is why I even assumed perfect counter - which WOULD be the rational argument. If a stupid berry is enough to throw you off your horses and make you start whining about how Pokemon X is broken then honestly I wonder how you obtained your reputation as such a good player.
Can you stop with the personal attacks plskthx? I'm not "whining" or being thrown off my horse by a berry. Obviously I've KOd countless Garchomp, its just unneccessarily boring to do so. Not only do I have to play the entire match waiting for it to come out, I also have to shift the entire focus of my team to being anti-Garchomp in the team builder. It just makes the game boring as fuck. You know what the arguments are...so why are you acting so childish about this?
The point is this - you make the best choices based on any situation. If this means feeding a Pokemon to Garchomp so your next Poke can nail it, so be it. If this means that setting up SR and sacrificing your lead is the best decision, then so be it. If this means exploding on Garchomp or any threat you can't deal with, so be it. Why do you assume that your Pokemon must SURVIVE (aka must be a 100% COUNTER) the encounter when you can use it to kill the other? The point of the game is to win, aka to checkmake, not to constantly put people in check over and over again.
Ok, and what if the best choice in any situation is lose a pokemon? No matter what you do, you lose. I don't want to play a game where the best option is to pick which part of my team is the most useless for it to be sacrificed, ESPECIALLY in a game like pokemon where there is so much hidden information. Nobody is assuming what you think they are.
Interesting implication there! Why bother bringing up that fact if it won't be an "argument" to your great cause of banning Garchomp?
It's just a neat little statistic. I don't know what you're getting at here but it sounds like you are just letting off steam and not really saying anything =\
And you still haven't given a valid reason about why "no counters" is irrelevant in discussing tier placement.
etc etc etc. Is everything about Garchomp to you? Then why haven't you found ways to work around the fact that Garchomp is there, instead of thinking of it like this God Piece that wrecks the entire game? What do you do when there is something so big that one Pokemon can't handle? That's right. You use two. Oh, and you want to know why it is balanced? Cause you can use one too.
I hope to God that this part of your post is a joke. "Garchomp is balanced because you can use one too!" Let's allow Kyogre in OU! It won't be a problem because EVERYONE can use it!!
And its not just me that thinks Garchomp is everything. Have you played OU...uh...ever? (rhetorical) The entire OU tier is about Garchomp.
So essentially, skiddle, jrrrrr, SubVersion, chrisisme, "thanks for missing the point and arguing about something arbitrary", something that stark users seem to do very very often! Perhaps all of you "claiming" that "everyone knows this" - that's nice, everyone knew this the second Surgo made his thread, but judging by all of the posts half of you churn out when discussing the metagame, you guys really don't "know" it. What good is knowledge you can't apply to your arguments? Nothing. Makes you wonder why I made my decision not to post here anymore huh? (aka you are free to respond, but don't expect a response back - I am done)
Go ahead and declare a personal victory even though you missed what I said. Dismissing my post as arbitrary while criticizing me for doing the same thing is laughable. Nothing I said was wrong.
You're just under the assumption that "having no counters" doesn't matter, without any actual reasoning behind it. I'm saying that does matter. Maybe you should read your own thread about how to argue
If you really want to get rid of this counter 'mentality', you're going to have to remove the 'Counters' section present in every pokemon analysis. :\ Sure, one's utmost priority in a battle is to get their strategy front and center, but if the momentum is not in your favor, countering gets you back on track. I essentially think that's the gist of the counter concept.
Thank god someone ACTUALLY gets it. Countering helps you make up ground on your opponent, not the other way around as the OP is claiming.