NU Discussion Thread

[Steinhauser]

I'm sorry, but what wall/tank does Wobby outspeed? With 33 base speed, even Relaxed Swampert outruns it. When I meant Carvanah like defenses, I didn't mean in respect to the names, I was referring to HP / Def / SpD. There is absolutely no way it would be broken and it is ignorant to think otherwise.

Blissey (0 Spe Bliss: 146, 252 Spe neutral Wobb: 165), which is reason enough to use him - guaranteed risk-free Bliss elimination. And then there's Forry, Bronzong, Dusknoir, Hippowdon, Snorlax, you name it. And Wynaut can do the exact same thing because it also outspeeds Blissey (159 with a +Spe).

If you're going up against walls, you don't need to run defenses at all, and can pump speed as much as you want.

And then there are things like Skarm and Swampert (like you mentioned) whose only option is to phaze you away, which leaves them encored on their previous move (Stealth Rock/Spikes usually).

Wobbuffet and Wynaut are broken, and it has nothing to do with stats.

 

[Sceats]

The reason dugtrio isnt uber is because of his movepool. He unlike wobbuffet doesent have encore, tickle or massive defences along with reflect and mirror coat

 

[Huntofthelion]

The reason dugtrio isnt uber is because of his movepool. He unlike wobbuffet doesent have encore, tickle or massive defences along with reflect and mirror coat

He also can't trap fliers or pokemon with levitate.

 

[Veedrock]

Why is Wobbuffet being discussed in the NU thread of all places?

 

[Riverside]

The reason dugtrio isnt uber is because of his movepool. He unlike wobbuffet doesent have encore, tickle or massive defences along with reflect and mirror coat

It's the perfect Revenge killer, far superior than Pursuiter Weavile and Co.

Doesn't need skills like Wobby, so...

It's dugtrio power (Trait, stats, typing, movepool) and Medicham's trait even have power on its name :p (Good movepool too, etc)

 

[Sceats]

Out of curiousity, what leads are being used? Ive only experienced bibarel, piloswine and persian.

 

[zarator]

It's the perfect Revenge killer, far superior than Pursuiter Weavile and Co.

Doesn't need skills like Wobby, so...

It's dugtrio power (Trait, stats, typing, movepool) and Medicham's trait even have power on its name :p (Good movepool too, etc)

Originally Posted by Fat A Guide to D/P Uber Battling

Why Wobbuffet? One may ask why Wobbuffet is Uber; its stats besides Hit Points are very low, and its movepool consists of a meager seven moves (eight counting the promotional Tickle). However, it is known as the ultimate set up pokemon, and it is classified as an Uber purely because it has a trait - Shadow Tag - that traps all Pokémon that are not holding a Shed Shell or have the move U-Turn or Baton Pass. Wobbuffet's titanic HP lets him use his moves - Counter, Mirror Coat, and most importantly, Encore - to great success. His ability to set up sweepers such as Rayquaza and Arceus with a deadly combination of Encore and Shadow Tag is definitely not something that players should overlook. In Advance, 386 play, or the 3rd generation as many call it, 2 Wobbuffets facing each other would cause an extremely long and mindbendingly boring stallwar due to their mutual inability to switch out, thus causing them to try and slap around each other for no damage until they Struggle, which will never finish thanks to the recovery they receive from the item Leftovers. However, this problem has been fixed in Diamond/Pearl. Two Pokemon with Shadow Tag will be able to escape out of each other, and thus preventing this dreadfully boring battle of willpower. This, however, is not a reason why Wobbuffet is not Uber, as it can trap anything else and force either a knockout or a free turn with Encore. If Wobbuffet Encored a damaging attack, the opposition would be promptly destroyed, and if it Encored a setup move, Wobbuffet's user would almost be guaranteed a free turn to switch to another Pokemon and set up.

And anyway Veedrock is right, this is not the place to discuss whether or not Wobbuffet is Uber. It already an established status for him. And there have been a Policy Review discussion about Wynaut, if you want to look for it on the Policy Review subforum.

 

[supermarth64]

I take the blame for talking about Wobbuffet, but I was merely explaining why he's Uber and things like Medicham and Pinsir aren't UU?

 

[umbarsc]

Wobbuffet is uber because it is too good for OU. Pinsir and Medicham aren't UU because they don't have enough usage in UU. If we get more serious about NU, Medicham and Pinsir will likely be banned (and sent to the ban tier between UU and NU), but not before we test them thoroughly.

I would really like to see only 2-3 Pokemon banned for NU, though. I don't think we should be removing too many powerhouses or else it'll kind of suck. NU is offensive, there's no need to nominate every single Pokemon without a guaranteed counter.

 

[YaM]

As of now, weather is very viable in NU (sun and rain) due to the large amount of weather sweepers

I don't know about Snover and Hippopotas I can't find them in any tier.

For Sunny Day teams the powerhouses of Exeggutor, Victreebel, Tangrowth, Shiftry and Jumpluff are all in NU.

For Rain Dance we have Qwilfish, Relicanth, Floatzel (physical) and Gorebyss (special)

For Hail teams Stallrein, Glalie (can use same set as Stallrein) and Glaceon (crazy sp.atk) are all viable too.

 

[DarXidE]

Out of curiousity, what leads are being used? Ive only experienced bibarel, piloswine and persian.

I've seen buttefree, venemoth, jynx, persian, bibarel, jumpluff, and lopunny as common leads.

 

[Sceats]

yeah, umbarsc sun and hail pwn in nu at the moment due to the high powered sweepers such as exeggutor, while things like scarfed jynx are seriously under rated and stallrein is practically impregnable once you get going unless you have something like a medicham who can threaten a 0hko.

Although regice is surprisingly effective at shutting it down...

 

[ungulateman]

Regice is effectively the Blissey of NU, sort of like Hypno or Slowbro in UU. It's got bad typing, but there's not much Stealth Rock in NU, so it's a very viable counter/check to a lot of special sweepers.

Medicham looks to be moving "up" into the supposed NU-BL tier if it becomes a reality. I wouldn't be suprised to see Bibarel as well, considering how often it can completely shut down an opposing lead.

 

[Blazebat]

I have seen the walling potential of Leafeon in NU and am impressed. Tangrowth may be more of an offensive powerhouse but the extra speed that Leafeon has is definitely a plus. I think that is Tangrowth gets booted (something I strongly believe in) Leafeon could be a premier NU grass wall type. Not to mention that Leafeon can pass some sword dances to something like Medicham or Pinsir.

 

[SHUCKLE MAN]

The most common lead I've been seeing is Persian. Persian being the fastest Pokemon in the tier certainly helps its performance as a lead. It does have the same base Speed as Sneasel and Floatzel though, and they both have higher Attack stats than Persian. Sneasel gets Fake Out, but it's much higher Attack doesn't make up for the lack of STAB.

Both Sneasel and Persian get Taunt too, which is rather nice...

 

[Lemmiwinks MkII]

The most common lead I've been seeing is Persian. Persian being the fastest Pokemon in the tier certainly helps its performance as a lead. It does have the same base Speed as Sneasel and Floatzel though, and they both have higher Attack stats than Persian. Sneasel gets Fake Out, but it's much higher Attack doesn't make up for the lack of STAB.

Or Technician obviously. But Sneasel's big selling point isn't Fake Out itself, it is the ability to fight through it with Brick Break + Ice Shard, or simply Counter it back.

Anyway, I'm most excited about the possible changes to NU next month. Based on recent statistics, it seems that Medicham, Cloyster and Quagsire will be going up to UU, whilst Typhlosion and Torterra may possibly be coming down. But it all depends on how drastic the recent suspect testing has affected usage. Is there anything I've overlooked?

 

[DragonDude]

Common leads are most noticeably Persian and it has decent starting speed. Lots of people use Venomoth too.

 

[Zeromus EG]

Taunt Bibarel is the best lead I've used in this tier.

Base 71 speed means any early walls don't get any SR up while Bibarel sets up his. SR is always great. Super Fang to halve anyones HP :O. Finally, Waterfall just for STAB. Unaware beats late game set ups and Baton Pass leads.

If Medicham goes up next month, it would be great for Hitmonchan. Gives him a chance to shine and gives a lot of walls a better time too, Medicham's excellent coverage is really annoying when all the other walls are Fighting weak.

Typhlosion and Torterra will really shake up the game I think. Torterra only needs 132 Speed EVs with a neutral nature to outspeed everything after a Rock Polish (bar any Scarfers), meaning he can max attack and still come out with 362/246/206 defenses. Grass/Ground/Rock gives good coverage and he can equip Life Orb too. A big threat if it moves down. Definitely gonna try this guy out with Dual Screen support.

Typhlosion will be a big threat with Scarf Eruptions everywhere. Fire is a great attacking type in this tier and with 109 base SpAtk, Typhlosion will definitely make use of it. Just needs EQ to hit the Fire types. Funnily, Scarf Typhlosion would make a good check to RP Torterra, outspeeding and probably OHKOing after the Rock Polish.

But then again, this is all theory, and RP Torterra got a load of hype in the start of nUU anyway, so we'll have to see. Two great new additions to only strengthen an already offensive metagame.

(This is assuming they do get moved down at all, Lemmiwinks XD)

 

[Aquamilotic]

A double weather team might be nice. Jumpluff, Shiftry, Gorebyss, Floatzel, Drifblim and Manectric. Jumpluff and Shiftry benefit from sun, Gorebyss and Floatzel benefit from rain, Drifblim sets up weather (and Shiftry and Gorebyss also have weather moves), and Manectric is a non-weather-reliant sweeper.

 

[SHUCKLE MAN]

Well, I really doubt Torterra is going to NU next month. It's been really popular lately. Check the UU sticky. They're talking about him quite a lot.

 

[MegaKick]

I fing that chesto rest drifblim is destroying unprepared teams. He has perfect coverage with shadow ball and hidden power fighting, and after a rest, can sweep with at least +2 speciel attack and +2 speed. And he doesn't get destroyed by a single hit when sweeping, thanks to immunity to some priority moves (vaccuum wave, mach punch, and e-xpeed) plus his huge hp stat and +2 sp. def.

Tangrowth+Regice+Slowking is like skarmbliss in advance OU. Only specfic pokemon or crazy sets on common pokemon can get past them. Basically, a good team revovlves around a solid core of regice/articuno+tangrowth+fire resist, a late game sweeper like drifblim or linoone, a wall breaker such as flareon, and a solid anti-lead makes a very simple but effective team. Speaking of anti-leads, I fing that pinsir is the best. I beleive it was in one of HeySup's warstory's. The ability to get great coverage and stealth rock is great. He can also be saved as a gimmicky flail sweeper. Piloswine also makes a greant anti-lead, similar to mamoswine in OU.

 

[A.P.]

Based on recent statistics, it seems that Medicham, Cloyster and Quagsire will be going up to UU, whilst Typhlosion and Torterra may possibly be coming down.

I don't know about Torterra. It's had a huge jump in usage recently.

 

[Khyl]

Parasect is actually pretty good in NU. Aside from the obvious Spore, his typing gives him a lot of opprotunities to switch in, and with max attack he 2HKOs Leafeon with X-Scissor. He can further support the team with Aromatherapy, or Stun Spore.

Regice is overrated. With the standard set of Rest/Sleep Talk/Thunderbolt/Ice Beam, he's easily set up on by pretty much anything not weak to Bolt-Beam. Sure he walls special attackers, at least those that don't have calm mind, but he can't do much back to the other team.

So far weather is no big deal. Nothing can hit quite as hard in the rain as Kabutops and Omastar, so the generally weaker rain sweepers are comfortably walled. The best thing Hippopotas teams have got is Cradily, who is nowhere near Walrein as far as stalling is concerned. Speaking of hail, I actually don't see a lot of it. Maybe its the lack of good Spinners and Toxic Spikers.

 

[Sceats]

yeah, i really doubt that typhlosion and torterra will go down while cloyster and quagsire go up.

Typhlosion wouldnt even need eruption with all the sun happening and few fire types to sponge the hit.Torterra would also be too versatile, knowing support moves such as the screens and leech seed while still being able to sweep accordigly.

 

[Khyl]

A few NU Pokemon stand out at me as broken after playing for a few weeks.

Medicham: (Offensive Charcteristic) Pure Power is just ridiculous, and Medicham can abuse it. With a Choice Scarf he outspeeds the entire tier, and can really clean up late game. Or he can just destroy things early game.

Ursaring: (Offensive Characteristic) Even with a Jolly nature, Ursaring can OHKO everything in NU Except for Shuckle after a Swords Dance and a Toxic boosted Facade. Close Combat and Crunch hits what Facade doesn't, and Ursaring can sweep if your opponent doesn't have anything that doesn't outspeed and OHKO.

Leafeon: (Defensive and Support Characteristic) Possibly the best user of Roar. Leafeon is only rivaled by Tangrowth as the best Physical Wall in the tier. With few physical weaknesses, and resistance to Earthquake, Leafeon can switch into Ground types with ease, and hit them with Leaf Blade, or just Wish to heal teamates. 110 At, Swords Dance, and 95 Spe can also let Leafeon sweep, or pass it to something else to sweep.

There are plenty of other offensive and defensive threats, but none are as threatening as these.