God vs Science

An interesting story I read recently.



A science professor begins his school year with a lecture to the students, “Let me explain the problem science has with religion.” The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand.

“You’re a Christian, aren’t you, son?”

“Yes sir,” the student says.

“So you believe in God?”

“Absolutely.”

“Is God good?”

“Sure! God’s good.”

“Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?”

“Yes.”

“Are you good or evil?”

“The Bible says I’m evil.”

The professor grins knowingly. “Aha! The Bible!” He considers for a moment. “Here’s one for you. Let’s say there’s a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?”

“Yes sir, I would.”

“So you’re good…!”

“I wouldn’t say that.”

“But why not say that? You’d help a sick and maimed person if you could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn’t.”

The student does not answer, so the professor continues. “He doesn’t, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?”

The student remains silent.

“No, you can’t, can you?” the professor says. He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax.

“Let’s start again, young fella. Is God good?”

“Er…yes,” the student says.

“Is Satan good?”

The student doesn’t hesitate on this one. “No.”

“Then where does Satan come from?”

The student falters. “From God”

“That’s right. God made Satan, didn’t he? Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?”

“Yes, sir.”

“Evil’s everywhere, isn’t it? And God did make everything, correct?”

“Yes.”

“So who created evil?” The professor continued, “If God created everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil.”

Again, the student has no answer. “Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this world?”

The student squirms on his feet. “Yes.”

“So who created them?”

The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his question. “Who created them?” There is still no answer. Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is mesmerized. “Tell me,” he continues onto another student. “Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?”

The student’s voice betrays him and cracks. “Yes, professor, I do.”

The old man stops pacing. “Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?”

“No sir. I’ve never seen Him.”

“Then tell us if you’ve ever heard your Jesus?”

“No, sir, I have not.”

“Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for that matter?”

“No, sir, I’m afraid I haven’t.”

“Yet you still believe in him?”

“Yes.”

“According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn’t exist. What do you say to that, son?”

“Nothing,” the student replies. “I only have my faith.”

“Yes, faith,” the professor repeats. “And that is the problem science has with God. There is no evidence, only faith.”

The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of His own. “Professor, is there such thing as heat?”

“Yes,” the professor replies. “There’s heat.”

“And is there such a thing as cold?”

“Yes, son, there’s cold too.”

“No sir, there isn’t.”

The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The room suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain. “You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don’t have anything called ‘cold’. We can hit up to 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can’t go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458 degrees.”

“Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.”

Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom, sounding like a hammer.

“What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?”

“Yes,” the professor replies without hesitation. “What is night if it isn’t darkness?”

“You’re wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it’s called darkness, isn’t it? That’s the meaning we use to define the word.”

“In reality, darkness isn’t. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn’t you?”

The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will be a good semester. “So what point are you making, young man?”

“Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed.”

The professor’s face cannot hide his surprise this time. “Flawed? Can you explain how?”

“You are working on the premise of duality,” the student explains. “You argue that there is life and then there’s death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can’t even explain a thought.”

“It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it.”

“Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?”

“If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do.”

“Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?”

The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed.

“Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?”

The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion has subsided.

“To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, let me give you an example of what I mean.”

The student looks around the room. “Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor’s brain?” The class breaks out into laughter.

“Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor’s brain, felt the professor’s brain, touched or smelt the professor’s brain? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all due respect, sir.”

“So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?”

Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his face unreadable.

Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers. “I guess you’ll have to take them on faith.”

“Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with life,” the student continues. “Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?”

Now uncertain, the professor responds, “Of course, there is. We see it everyday. It is in the daily example of man’s inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil.”

To this the student replied, “Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God’s love present in his heart. It’s like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light.”

The professor sat down.



What do you guys think?
 
Nice story, but I'm sure in real life a professor would have fought back. Especially since we actually have proof human brains exist from looking at other humans and knowing we could not function without them.
 
The main flaw in this story is that it doesn't actually say anything! It sounds cool, I suppose. It's got that wonderfully obnoxious conceit to it - a smug atheist professor trying his best to publicly embarrass some poor, naive Christians, only to have the tables turned on him in the end.

But when you break it down, there's actually no content behind the story. I've gotten more insight into life and how things work from dirty jokes than this.

But hey - if we use enough rhetoric, ANYTHING sounds good, amirite?
 

Carl

or Varl
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The main flaw in this story is that it doesn't actually say anything! It sounds cool, I suppose. It's got that wonderfully obnoxious conceit to it - a smug atheist professor trying his best to publicly embarrass some poor, naive Christians, only to have the tables turned on him in the end.

But when you break it down, there's actually no content behind the story. I've gotten more insight into life and how things work from dirty jokes than this.

But hey - if we use enough rhetoric, ANYTHING sounds good, amirite?
word
 
The problem is...all the student's arguments can be scientifically tested to determine their validity.

On electromagnetism:
Electrons are observed, studied, and quantified all the time through myriad experiments done by scientists around the world. I'm not going to go into the whole quantum-mechanical arguments about uncertainty, and whether or not they exist before being observed, etc.
Here's a nice link for reference...Maxwell's Equations of Electromagnetism

-=edit=-
If any more proof is needed about electromagnetism, here is a link concering a famous experiment that more or less proves that electrons can be observed. The experiment itself isn't the important part, it's the fact that the plate is registering the impact of individual electrons.
link

On Evolution
Evolution HAS been observed and verified in plenty of labratory situations. For example, this fairly well known labratory experiment.

On the professor's brain:
It's called an MRI, genius.

A little analysis and the student's entire argument falls to bits. He's gonna fail college.

</thread>
 

Firestorm

I did my best, I have no regrets!
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Aside from the horrible, horrible argument against evolution... actually even then it's bad as I'd assume a science teacher would know that "cold" and "darkness" are the terms for the absence of "heat" and "light" respectively. All it did was frame "good" and "evil" is a quaint little way.
 
cold means a state with little heat, darkness means absence of light, any science professor would know that
 

Xia

On porpoise
is a Contributor Alumnus
I really liked that story. A good read, even though this entire thing will more than likely become what your title suggests (God vs Science). I, however, would like to make it about interesting college stories, so here's mine:

An English professor stands in the front of the classroom on finals day. He grabs the back of his chair, and adresses his class.

"Your final," he starts,"Will be on one topic, and one topic only, you are to persuade me into believing that this chair does not exist. You have three hours."

Within a minute of completing his instructions, a young man in the front row puts down his pencil, grabs his paper, walks it to the professor's desk, and walks out.

The professor, unable to suppress his curiosity, grabs the paper and reads the single sentence the boy had written.

"What chair?" the boy had wrote.
 

TheFourthChaser

#TimeForChange
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I really liked that story. A good read, even though this entire thing will more than likely become what your title suggests (God vs Science). I, however, would like to make it about interesting college stories, so here's mine:

An English professor stands in the front of the classroom on finals day. He grabs the back of his chair, and adresses his class.

"Your final," he starts,"Will be on one topic, and one topic only, you are to persuade me into believing that this chair does not exist. You have three hours."

Within a minute of completing his instructions, a young man in the front row puts down his pencil, grabs his paper, walks it to the professor's desk, and walks out.

The professor, unable to suppress his curiosity, grabs the paper and reads the single sentence the boy had written.

"What chair?" the boy had wrote.
lmao, did you ever find out what grade he got for that?

edit: I was joking about "what grade he got"
 
@Ludan:

I find it difficult to believe that anybody could fall into that sort of intellectual trap. I'm pretty sure several people have already said this, but any college professor knows that dark=absence of light, etc.

Btw, did you render that avatar yourself? I, personally, suck with apophysis and hold great respect for anybody who can figure that damned program out.
 

Xia

On porpoise
is a Contributor Alumnus
=] Thanks Jabba. I'd like to meet the guy who did that. he is one of my idols for thinking outside the box.
 
A entertaining read.
Any professor would argue that instead of letting that student ridicule him in front of the class.
And as said the evolutionary process has been tested, observed and made commercials about it. The professors brain does excist and so on.
 

Deck Knight

Blast Off At The Speed Of Light! That's Right!
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God sucks.
So you believe the following:

a) God exists.

b) God is malevolent and/or apathetic.

What a horrible existence that must be.

Slightly more on topic:

Science and God are not two inherently opposing forces. They are not a duality in any sense whatsoever for a normal human being. The vast majority of scientists claim some kind of religion. This is because religion informs them morally where science informs them empirically. Science cannot determine good and evil, it can only describe events. Science can be used for good or evil, but cannot self-determine which it is. The results of human tolerances in Nazi gas-chambers being a prime case of bioethics where clearly the scientific method is used to analyze the results of what most would consider an atrocity.

The only time "science" conflicts with "religion" is when religion's moral precepts get in the way of a particular scientist's ambitions. This is pretty much what happens when anything conflicts with "religion." The only reason people buy into this duality is because it is much more convenient to call your opponents Bible Thumpers then it is to lay out an actual argument for government funding of your repeatedly unsuccessful, results-devoid human experimentations, among other things.
 

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