Dragons of Generation 5

@ Raptorq: What is Kyuremu KOing Blissey with, then?
That's why I said it's too early to have that discussion.
Without knowing all its moves, it's not possible to know. But it's still a possibility to keep in mind, so claims like "outclassed by Palkia" are pointless. That's all.
 

cosmicexplorer

pewpewpew
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
@AxelLow: Kyuremu will probably do the stallbreaking thing better, with higher attacking stats. But Sazando will definitely have a niche, being faster than Kyuremu, and resisting the attacks of all the new Ghost-types. And I definitely agree with you about Pursuit; it'll be faster than most ghosts, allowing it to deal good damage even if they don't switch out.
 
I agree with Orly, and Ice-Eyes about Sazando. That thing can, and will be, a monster. I would rather see it be mixed, and have the capabilities of busting stall open here, and there. It'll also be a great check to most of the new ghost types, and even stop others from really wanting to come in on it's mixed attacks.

If he does get pursuit, he can possibly trap alot of problems, and revenge kill various pokes.
I think it has the potential to do all three in one with the correct EV spread, nature, and move set. I could see it Sazando being one of the few Pokemon who can use a neutral nature effectively; it wants to keep all of the bulk, speed, and balanced offenses without any set backs. I was thinking of trying a move set like this.

Sazando @ Leftovers (if they still exist)
Serious Nature (or any other neutral nature)
EVs: Enough to outspeed Timid max speed Shanderaa, enough attack to OHKO Shanderaa with Crunch, some in special attack, and some in bulk.
-Pursuit
-Crunch
-Draco Meteor / Dragon Pulse
-Fire Blast

Now this is all theorizing, but if it learns all of these moves, this is the set that I'd use.
 
I am really looking forward to these! The move tutors, egg moves and TM lists are going to have a big affect on these. If Sazando learns Dragon Dance as an egg move it can be like Salamence and easily be a great threat.
 
I don't get why Ice-eyes seems determined to hate the new pokemon. Will you forgive me if I say you're one of those "oh no I hate the new generation gamefreak spoiled the game noooooo" people? Just wondering, no offence.

Anyway as I said before Ononokusu probably has potential to be a great anti-lead with it's attack stat to destroy everything and taunt. And why compare it to the other dragons? It can still rip apart a whole chunk of the metagame. Theres no rule stating it must be dragon vs dragon.
 
@AxelLow: Kyuremu will probably do the stallbreaking thing better, with higher attacking stats. But Sazando will definitely have a niche, being faster than Kyuremu, and resisting the attacks of all the new Ghost-types. And I definitely agree with you about Pursuit; it'll be faster than most ghosts, allowing it to deal good damage even if they don't switch out.
Good point Cosmic. Kyuremu would have an excellent time breaking stall (hopefully). Sazando is indeed, going to be amazing, and I hope it's movepool can show for it as well. If it doesn't get pursuit i'll be a bit upset, but I'd still use it regardless for it's amazing possibilities.

@Orly- That set does indeed look good. I might exchange Dark Pulse for Crunch, but either way I think it would work nicely.

In fact, Sazando may also have alot of other viable sets come to think of it o.0
 
I'd like to talk about the fate of Kurimugan.

It looks like a poor man's Ono.. But apparently, this thing does have Superpower, on the other hand, it seems to lack the special attack to pull off a decent Mixset..
However, it does have Encourage..

That said, this thing might still be too strong for UU.
However, if the metagame does become too offensive.. It might be banished to UU anyway.

It's definitely not bad.
It has decent bulk, high attack and nice typing, especially because it doesn't suffer the dreaded 4x Ice weakness most Dragons up to now suffered. And with its bulk, it can definitely make use of it. And with Encourage, it can make up for its low speed with stronger attacks coming off an already good 120 attack.
If Encourage prevents the stat drop from Superpower and the confuse from Outrage.. This thing could definitely be a force to be reckoned with, regardless of its low speed.
 
I think I'd only CB Kurimugan. Even then it might be too slow. Maybe Scarf for it? If it gets some sort of priority move, and SD, I can see that being a nice set. Of course, I highly doubt that might happent : P
 

Ice-eyes

Simper Fi
Guys, just because Ono is outclassed doesn't mean the new gen isn't cool! There's all sorts of crazy stuff and I'm as excited as anyone.
 

cosmicexplorer

pewpewpew
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
I think it has the potential to do all three in one with the correct EV spread, nature, and move set. I could see it Sazando being one of the few Pokemon who can use a neutral nature effectively; it wants to keep all of the bulk, speed, and balanced offenses without any set backs. I was thinking of trying a move set like this.

Sazando @ Leftovers (if they still exist)
Serious Nature (or any other neutral nature)
EVs: Enough to outspeed Timid max speed Shanderaa, enough attack to OHKO Shanderaa with Crunch, some in special attack, and some in bulk.
-Pursuit
-Crunch
-Draco Meteor / Dragon Pulse
-Fire Blast

Now this is all theorizing, but if it learns all of these moves, this is the set that I'd use.
I'd say use LO, but it sounds like it could work, considering we have no knowledge of the metagame yet. That base 125 SAtk just screams to be abused, and trapping Shanderaa is a huge plus. I also think a Specs set is viable, as other have mentioned, due to its great SAtk + STAB Draco Meteor, just like Latias.
 
Guys, just because Ono is outclassed doesn't mean the new gen isn't cool! There's all sorts of crazy stuff and I'm as excited as anyone.


^ Just sayin :)

Specs Sazando would be epic, but I'd definitely go with the mixed attacker with pursuit instead. Although, specs Sazando with boltbeam maybe?
 

SJCrew

Believer, going on a journey...
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Oh my goodness, I nearly had a heart attack when I saw Kyuremu. I've said since the beginning of the Gen 5 hype that all I ever wanted out of the deal was an Ice Dragon and now my prayers have been answered. I used to draw stuff like this when I was a little kid...and the stats look just the way I imagined them too. Thank you, God, thank you Gamefreak, and thank you Gen 5... :')
 

Ice-eyes

Simper Fi
BoltBeam is dumb because Ice + Dragon is redundant. Dragon / Water / Fire is the best three-move coverage combo for non-Mix Sazando and for Latias (annoying Grass / Steel thing is annoying although candlemon can eat it).
 
The List of the Fearsome 5th Generation Dragons


# 612: Ononokusu (Dragon)
76/ 147/ 90/ 60/ 70/ 97
Rivalry/ Mold Breaker
Probably the Pokemon that almost everyone playing Pokemon around the world are psyched about, Ononokusu has a lot more in terms of ferocity than just a badass looking sprite. With a humongous base 147 Atk stat coupled up with a over- average base 97 speed stat, its almost assured that Ononokusu will wreak the same fear as Garchomp did when it was OU. But unlike Garchomp, Ononokusu has access to both swords dance and dragon dance.


# 643: Reshiram (Dragon/ Fire)
100/ 120/ 100/ 150/ 120/ 90
Turbo Blaze
The first of the two cover Pokemon of Pokemon Black and White Versions, Reshiram is nothing to laugh about after looking at its stat layout. A base 150 SpA stat, a base 120 Atk stat, decent speed and bulk and its unique typing – Dragon/ Fire, Reshiram has won the hearts of battlers all over the world. Though the effect of Reshiram’s ability, Turbo Blaze is unknown, it is still something to look forward to hearing about as its name does make it sound exceptionally cool.


# 644: Zekrom (Dragon/ Electric)
100/ 150/ 120/ 120/ 100/ 90
Terra Voltage
The Black Yin Pokemon. Just like its counterpart, Reshiram, Zekrom has a unique typing – Dragon/ Electric; but unlike the White Yang Pokemon, Zekrom’s offensive base stat layout is basically the opposite of Reshiram’s. While its counterpart has a base 150 SpA stat and a base 120 Atk stat, Zekrom has a base 150 Atk stat and a base 120 SpA stat so it will wreak the same havoc Reshiram will, but only on the other side of the offensive spectrum.


# 646: Kyuremu (Dragon/ Ice)
125/ 130/ 90/ 130/ 90/ 95
Pressure
Say hello to my personal favourite of the 5th generation, the only Pokemon with an Ice/ Dragon typing. With both offensive stats sharing a base 130 stat and a base 95 speed stat (Outspeeding both Reshiram and Zekrom), Kyuremu will probably be seen as a mixed attacker since there aren’t any stat boosting moves to be seen in its arsenal yet.

So yeah, those were the dragon types, the 5th generation offers and my interpretation of them all. So please post with your opinion on these fearsome Dragons and let me know what you personally think they will be able to accomplish at the competitive Pokemon scene!
I put my bet on all of this dragon to be Uber. They are like salamence, except stronger and bulkier. 147 base atk stat, Ononokusu is really going to be uber, since he gets both DD and SD, that makes him unstoppable after a DD or so. I think Garchomp is going to be OU, since Ononokusu outclass him but with his ability sand veil, theres a reason why garchomp should be Uber. Zekrom and Kyuremu, you rock.
 
Choice Band and DDance Ononokusu is going to be scary...

Choice Specs Sazando is going to be scary too. All you need to do is get rid of Blissey.

Kyuremu is probably the coolest dragon yet. Dragon/Ice is such a boss typing and it has awesome offensive stats, considering that it can also outrun both Reshiram and Zekrom.

EDIT:
Ononokusu doesn't outclass Garchomp since it still has that lovely troll speed (outruns every other non-uber dragon), arguably better typing, and good bulk.
 
I put my bet on all of this dragon to be Uber. They are like salamence, except stronger and bulkier. 147 base atk stat, Ononokusu is really going to be uber, since he gets both DD and SD, that makes him unstoppable after a DD or so. I think Garchomp is going to be OU, since Ononokusu outclass him but with his ability sand veil, theres a reason why garchomp should be Uber. Zekrom and Kyuremu, you rock.

The bottom three yes. Ono? No. In fact, I wont start on this again since we already had a huge discussion about outclassing pokes, and the like.
 
I put my bet on all of this dragon to be Uber. They are like salamence, except stronger and bulkier. 147 base atk stat, Ononokusu is really going to be uber, since he gets both DD and SD, that makes him unstoppable after a DD or so. I think Garchomp is going to be OU, since Ononokusu outclass him but with his ability sand veil, theres a reason why garchomp should be Uber. Zekrom and Kyuremu, you rock.
I doubt Ononokusu is going uber: That 97 speed stat is just SO crippling: Sazando, Mence, Chomp, Flygon, Latias, outspeed it, not to mention all of the nondragons.

The other three are most likely to be uber. They're base stat totals alone give them that reason, as the only 2 >600 BSTs are Regigigas and Slaking, both of which have their effectiveness halved by their ability. I see Kyumeru as a wallbreaker, with enough bulk to take weak attacks from Lugia/Giratina and hit them with Ice Beam/Dragon Pulse/Etc.
 

cosmicexplorer

pewpewpew
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
I put my bet on all of this dragon to be Uber. They are like salamence, except stronger and bulkier. 147 base atk stat, Ononokusu is really going to be uber, since he gets both DD and SD, that makes him unstoppable after a DD or so. I think Garchomp is going to be OU, since Ononokusu outclass him but with his ability sand veil, theres a reason why garchomp should be Uber. Zekrom and Kyuremu, you rock.
I don't want to start the whole argument over again, just read through the thread, but Ononokusu is not Uber material. Kyuremu, with that 97 speed and no boosting moves, means that it can and will be revenged, as will Ononokusu. On the other hand, Reshiram and Zekrom are really powerful and probably will be found Uber.

Analysis of Reshiram/Zekrom: As Jibaku said, Zekrom will be a beast with that Cross Thunder and M550. However, it will probably be relegated to more of a supporting role, having no other real physical STAB to work off of. It could possibly use a Choice Band effectively, tying for the second highest attack in Ubers, and having a base 130 power STAB move, letting it hit harder than CBDon. Hitting on the physical side also makes it a rarity in Ubers, where most things hit with Special Attacks. However, it might find its attacks walled by the many defensive Dragons in Ubers. We'll have to see how it plays out. Reshiram, on the other hand, can abuse the sunlight and its tremendous special attack to absolutely wreck things. Although its 90 base speed lets it down, and SpecsOgre hits harder and brings its own rain, Reshiram has a very workable attack stat, and can deal excellent damage to the specially defensive pokemon like Latias that wall Kyogre.
 
Kyumeru will be great at breaking stall, and probably wont be that bad at wallbreaking.

Which brings me to the idea of Sazando again. I can only hope that it gets the godsend movepool it needs to become a powerful contendor. Hell, I wouldn't even care if it didn't get the usual DD for dragons. Calm Mind would be nicer IMO, and could make it dangerous as hell! It's almost like a mini-Latias, just evil >:D

CB Zekrom sounds deadly! I think I want to run some calcs on it.
 
Choice Band and DDance Ononokusu is going to be scary...

Choice Specs Sazando is going to be scary too. All you need to do is get rid of Blissey.

Kyuremu is probably the coolest dragon yet. Dragon/Ice is such a boss typing and it has awesome offensive stats, considering that it can also outrun both Reshiram and Zekrom.

EDIT:
Ononokusu doesn't outclass Garchomp since it still has that lovely troll speed (outruns every other non-uber dragon), arguably better typing, and good bulk.
Ononkusu may not have stab eq or immunity to electrics, but it loses that 4x weakness to ice. Considering it is frailer, pure dragon isn't too bad.
 
To be fully honest i'm more interested in seeing how the new dragon types and Garchomp to an Extent would function if Latias and Latios aren't banned from the start in Gen 5.
 

SJCrew

Believer, going on a journey...
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Speculation is fine, but no matter how right you think you are, making definitive statements about tiering this early is still retarded...

Ono has a speed problem, true, and it'll most likely be top OU until the metagame cools down to a point where all the obscenely powerful mons get the boot. Plus, we need to see how his movepool pans out.

What I'm looking at is a Haban/Yache Berry SD set to get KOs on all my checks while giving me some leeway for an Adamant nature to run through walls. I'll have to test it out later on though, since my eyes are on that Ice Dragon for the time being.
 
Ah, yes. Remember when Dragonite used to be the only viable Dragon type and had the highest base attack of any Pokemon? I do.
Anyway, these new ones are kind of cool, though tbh they do look a little more like Digimon than Pokemon to me, but that's alright. They're probably gonna run Dragonite into the ground, especially Ononokusu. It's hard to believe there's a non-uber Dragon now that had 3 less base attack than Rayquaza.
 
Ono has a speed problem, true, and it'll most likely be top OU until the metagame cools down to a point where all the obscenely powerful mons get the boot.
Why assume that'll happen? If they're all obscenely powerful, they can balance each other out and still create a stable OU tier.

Of course, they might not, but there's no reason to assume they won't. There will probably be some bans, but if BL is any indication, it's possible to get by with very few bans and still have things work out.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top