Ice Breath

[KevlarX290]

sadly hitmontop can't learn a techSTABed MtStorm then again drainpunch works better

Drain Punch + Technician no longer works since Drain Punch's power increased to 75. Not that Hitmontop could learn it anyway.

 

[Enlong]

Speaking of multibattles and Anger Point, what about in Triple Battles?

I admit I don't understand all the mechanics, but can't you use, say a Dreamworld Camerupt, something with Ice Breath or Mountain Storm, and a Togekiss with Follow Me?

Draw all enemy attacks to the Togekiss, crit the Camerupt for Anger Point, and then fire off a +6 Earthquake?

 

[Bodofagod]

Primeape could always use a sub to avoid taking damage from the crit. But i never double battle so its just a shot in the dark there

 

[Akita Neru]

Okay, a crit doubles the damage outcome.
When attacking, if it's a crit, first it negates all defesive boosts, then calculates the damage from that and turns it to x2. Or x3 if it's Sniper.
It doesn't double Base Power but damage outcome, which is, after all the damage calculations, much more deadly.
So a 3x Ice Breath is not 120 Base Power, thus almost just like a Blizzard, but it does way more damage than that.

As for Octillery, it should really get Ice Breath.
I mean, he's an octopus alright. Maybe he shouldn't be able to breathe such ice.
But the damn guy gets to shoot rocks and fire and whatnot, so I'd say he should totally get Ice Breath. Maybe even Mountain Crush, considering he gets Seismic Toss and stuff.

 

[KevlarX290]

As for Octillery, it should really get Ice Breath.
I mean, he's an octopus alright. Maybe he shouldn't be able to breathe such ice.
But the damn guy gets to shoot rocks and fire and whatnot, so I'd say he should totally get Ice Breath. Maybe even Mountain Crush, considering he gets Seismic Toss and stuff.

It got Icy Wind in 3rd and 4th gen lol.

 

[Thorhammer]

Okay, a crit doubles the damage outcome.
When attacking, if it's a crit, first it negates all defesive boosts, then calculates the damage from that and turns it to x2. Or x3 if it's Sniper.
It doesn't double Base Power but damage outcome, which is, after all the damage calculations, much more deadly.
So a 3x Ice Breath is not 120 Base Power, thus almost just like a Blizzard, but it does way more damage than that.

As for Octillery, it should really get Ice Breath.
I mean, he's an octopus alright. Maybe he shouldn't be able to breathe such ice.
But the damn guy gets to shoot rocks and fire and whatnot, so I'd say he should totally get Ice Breath. Maybe even Mountain Crush, considering he gets Seismic Toss and stuff.

Base Power is a multiplier. Doubling BP is virtually the same as doubling damage.

 

[Nokocchi]

Let's cross our fingers for a future move tutor, maybe?

It's a TM Move.

The only non-Ice Type that can learn the TM is Mew.

I think GF wanted to give Ice-types a (decent) move that couldn't be learned by any non-Ice types, rather than handing it out to all the Water types too like they usually do.

Afterall, the most that Ice has ever gotten in return from Water moves is the Bubblebeam/Water Gun TMs in 1st Gen(Though the only non-Water Ice types then were Jynx and Arcticuno) and Water Pulse TM in 3rd/4th Gen.

 

[Azure Demon]

Best use of this would be in Doubles or Triples.

Stick in Primeape or Warubiaru and it's instant Belly Drum, and providing the Crit user is faster the Anger Point pokemon can start attacking at full power immediately. Even better if the Crit user can use Psych Up. Stick a SE-Reduction berry on the Anger Point pokemon, make sure the CRIT user doesn't have stab, has 0 SpAtt IVs and reducing nature, and you're good to go.

Great strategy but why not have the anger point pokemon sub first because anger point activates through sub then you can proceed to sweep

 

[Aqueos]

Yes, we can now break random stockpile cradily sets. Mountain storm could be neat. (DIE CURSELAX DIE) but ice breath.... don't think so.

 

[GtM]

One problem with that: attacking your own pokemon in doubles isn't a very good strategy. And since this strategy will be pretty obvious, Primeape/Tauros will get obliterated by the opponent before it can do anything.

Primeape learns Endure as a 4th Gen move, but does that work for multiple opponents? If it does... Salac berry and you're set.

 

[SHUCKLE MAN]

These moves are pretty much like weaker versions of Razor Leaf, Slash, etc. from RBY then. Judging by how good those were, these moves should be nice.

 

[Immaterial]

Primeape learns Endure as a 4th Gen move, but does that work for multiple opponents? If it does... Salac berry and you're set.

Yup, Endure works until the turn ends. Still a very priority- and scarf-weak strategy, however.

 

[Farewell]

Smeargle learns Ice Breathe which can help breeding, and also it gets Technician, boosting its Power. J/K!

The way of using it? Scarf a Smeargle and use on a Life Orb Tauros with Anger Point. Out Speed, deal weak damage, and then Tauros can deal major damage!

 

[Ekanselttar]

There's also Healing Beam(?), the move that heals the target for 50%. Faster crit + slower heal could have some potential in triples.

 

[Nokocchi]

Smeargle learns Ice Breathe which can help breeding

It's pretty pointless to breed Ice Breath when eveyrthing that can learn it outside of Smeargle himself can learn the TM anyways, and TMs can be used Infinite times now, making breeding TMs itself is pointless outside of oddities like Energy Ball Ninetales, Unless you trade the TM move Pokemon to a game that hasn't gotten that TM yet.

 

[thewetmop]

You're saying Calm Mind wasn't common?

i think its common, but not common enough to warrant a permanent 15 power drop to your attack. I can't see myself using this over icebeam unless the pokemon i'm using can't learn icebeam

 

[Redneck]

Also, from what little I know about damage calcs, Crits are calculated at the very end. STAB is factored first so for Fighting and Ice pokemon, its not 40*2 but 60*2 i think. (correct me if i'm wrong, which I think i might be). wow...

Uh, >_>?


40 BP x 1.5 STAB x 2 crit = 120
40 BP x 2 crit x 1.5 STAB = 120



It doesn't matter when they're calculated, it's multiplication <_<

 

[thewetmop]

Primeape learns Endure as a 4th Gen move, but does that work for multiple opponents? If it does... Salac berry and you're set.

how does this actually work out in doubles though? by using ice breath+endure, you wast an entire turn. If, by chance, nothing terrible happens then, you set primape up at 1hp, and it kills something. However, you're opponent is gong to attack primape with both pokes and kill it after 1 kill.

you could keep primape alive with a follow me user, but this still ends in each player loosing 1 poke per turn, which doesn't sound great for a strategy that takes this much setup.

 

[lumpor]

Do any Pokemon with Sniper get Assemble Crew? It makes the target's ability the same as the user, which could give one of these Pokemon Sniper and give effectively give them a 120 Base Power move. It's still pretty gimmicky (especially on Dageki since he gets Close Combat).

Might as well pass them technician, eh?

 

[Sevsouv]

For the double strategy why not use a decoy Driftlim to pass the sub while the other poke (slower than Drifblim) use the crit attack on primeape as he comes in behind the sub? It's a bit longer to set up but the strategy is less obvious.

 

[Flareon]

This was designed to get around calm mind/curse and the like imo

 

[Banryu]

I checked this already. :\ No Sniper gets either move, and on everyone else, it's basically inferior Ice Beam or Close Combat/Hi Jump Kick.

 

[Cristhianmlr]

But, somebody see certain thing?

Ice Breath pass throught Battle Armor and Shell Armor, Drapion can hate this in UU, being an cool Toxic Lead, also, Marowak die in pain.

And Torterra (no, my precious!), is on a world of pain (well, almost any Ice Attack can kill he, excluding certain Ice Punches).

I think that Ice Breath is better with support Ice-type PKMN, however, the only PKMN that can use this it that way is Froslass with Cursed Body.

Furijio can work with this, also, if it carrys a Dual Screen set.

 

[SupremeDirt]

Uh, >_>?


40 BP x 1.5 STAB x 2 crit = 120
40 BP x 2 crit x 1.5 STAB = 120



It doesn't matter when they're calculated, it's multiplication <_<

Furiijio (0 EVs, Neutral Nature) Ice Beam vs Diglett (0/0 EVs, Neutral Nature): 228.5-269.5% (368-434 HP)

VS

Furiijio (0 EVs, Neutral Nature) Ice Beam vs Diglett (0/0 EVs, Neutral Nature): 458.3-540.3% (738-870 HP) (Critical Hit)

434/870=2.00461

Slightly stronger.

However...

Furiijio (0 EVs, Neutral Nature) Ice Breath vs Diglett (0/0 EVs, Neutral Nature): 195-231% (314-372 HP) (Critical Hit)

VS

Furiijio (0 EVs, Neutral Nature) Blizzard vs Diglett (0/0 EVs, Neutral Nature): 286.9-339.1% (462-546 HP)

Blizzard does more damage. Given, I have dramatized the differences by using Diglett, but nonetheless, Blizzard does far more.

 

[Banryu]

Neither Octillery nor Kingdra gets it. :\ I've checked. No one, period, gets Sniper + one of these moves... just like nothing gets No Guard + Purgatory.

IMO, like Purgatory, the moves are effectively useless in competetive play. Maybe they'd have some niche uses, but.... I doubt it.

You might also want to list some Pokes that learn these moves in the OP (it might help to prove me wrong).