Team Probat

[les gets]

Long and boring intro:
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It's been quite a while since I last posted a rmt, I think my previous one dates back to when latias was still OU. I took a break from smogon shortly after I posted that rmt, and just before salamence was banned I came back. Then world cup came along and I really wanted to be on a team so I practiced for a few days and then tried out for US South, and made it. I lost the first qualifier match against twash which got pretty controversial I guess but I let it go because I didn't care that much. Then shortly after I got haxed and lost my second match. About that time I also did poorly in the frontier, making some dumb misplays which got me removed from the frontier early. I guess it's normal to slump but I slumped at the worst possible time, and I was disappointed with myself. Naturally I lost interest in pokemon yet again and took a ~2 month break, failing to complete my last qualifier match (even though it didn't matter).

After summer was almost over I visited smogon just to check things out and to see if some other pokemon like breloom got banned while I was gone, and also to see if any of my wcop teammates had sent me hate messages or anything like that. I realized that I had completely deserted my tutor, phil, for 2 months (well, "tutor"...more of an excuse to hang out and make some teams). I felt bad, and surprisingly after all that time gone, I was still his tutee according to the thread, so we met up a couple times on irc to brain storm for one last team. I won't get into specifics, but basically phil theorymoned CB Crobat at one point and it sounded interesting, so he helped me build a team to test it using it in the lead spot. It took me a bit of time to make this team solid, especially since I had been away from pokemon for a while, and the fact that I lack the free time I had last spring does not help my cause. However, this team has become one of my best and certainly my most favorite team to use in a long time. I know that I didn't exactly make a comeback from leaving during wcop; I reached ~1550 cre which isn't too bad considering the small amount of free time I had for shoddy, even though I know I could get higher for sure. When the smogon server was down for a while, I went to play on team uber, and I didn't lose a single game there, which was at least 20 or so battles. I didn't enter any tournaments with this team either. In fact, I hardly ever enter any tournaments around here or really get involved, which is why hardly anyone even knows who I am, unless you happened to catch me on irc or saw one of my previous rmts. Unfortunately I think it's too late for me now with Black and White being released, I'm not really interested in learning everything over again. But hey, it's definitely been fun just chillin in the background and doing w/e.

Brief team-building:
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I normally don't start off building teams with the lead, but in this case I did. Metagross matches up very well with Crobat because it can get Stealth Rock up quickly after Crobat U-turns to it, which is usually easy to do because of the typing. Bullet Punch is also what sets Metagross apart from other partners for Crobat because U-turn and Bullet Punch can take out many common leads like azelf, roserade, smeargle, etc. The two were so good together that it was too much to pass up.

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After I had those two I wanted a nice bulky water-type that could handle Heatran with ease. I chose offensive Suicune with leftovers because it is very effective which I already know from previous experience, and it checks a ton of stuff like dragonite and gyarados. I knew that adding suicune would help give me a good foundation for the rest of the team. So after I had half of the team done, I used the marriland team-builder thing to help motivate me to pick something else because I didn't really have a team goal in mind. Without really looking at the marriland team-builder, I thought of heatran because it is very popular, and I also knew that I could use 4 useful moves instead of 3 moves + stealth rock since metagross already had stealth rock. After a few minutes of thinking about what kind of heatran would be nice for this team, I chose magma storm heatran with taunt because it helps me beat stall and of course trap blissey, which is amazing considering blissey is suicune's main counter.

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I had two slots left, and at this point I am trying to think of two more pokemon that have nice synergy with the rest of my team and that can patch up any weaknesses I still have. I noticed a slight weakness to ground-type moves which usually isn't good, even with a shuca berry on tran and suicune countering most users of ground-type attacks. I also noticed a larger weakness to electric-type attacks which needed to be fixed. Flygon naturally came to me as a great choice for that 5th spot on my team with its great typing, and the fact that I would then have two fast u-turners sealed the deal. The last spot on my team was up for debate for a little while, like with any team, and I had to focus on what I still lacked, which wasn't much, or what I could double check. I was still a little weak to special attackers, so something like snorlax would have been nice, but I didn't want to get set up on by stuff like dragonite, and I also wanted to abuse the fact that blissey would almost always be trapped (damn magma storm's accuracy). Eventually I went with Lanturn literally just because it takes on most special attackers with ease, often utilizing volt absorb to its fullest extent, and it also takes advantage of blissey not being around alongside suicune.

With the sixth slot filled and some testing done to fix up some moves and ev spreads, Team Probat was finished, and I am very satisfied with the final product.

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In-depth:
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Crobat @ Choice Band
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 72 HP / 252 Atk / 36 Def / 148 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
- Taunt
- Super Fang

CB Crobat must be my favorite mon to use right now because it's just such a boss, and not just as a lead. I think phil saw rem use it before telling me but I don't know exactly who started using CB Crobat first. Thanks to whoever did though, and a huge thanks for not spreading the set around as well. Anyways, Brave Bird pretty much 2HKOes everything that doesn't resist it like Gliscor and Swampert after sr damage, and it even OHKOes some fairly bulky stuff like offensive Kingdra and Gyarados. Crobat is an amazing counter to all grass-types and fighting-types due to the 4x resistance to both, and Brave Bird OHKOes them all, including but certainly not limited to, Celebi, Shaymin, Machamp, and Breloom. One might think that Crobat's Stealth Rock weakness combined with the recoil from Brave Bird would mean that Crobat does not stay alive very long after it u-turns or gets switched out, and there's some truth to that, but Crobat always has time to at least fire off some Brave Birds or finish something off / scout with U-turn. Crobat is a great lead because it never lets my opponent gain any early momentum. Since it's faster than almost everything, I can just U-turn out to another mon if I get a bad match-up.

Since Phil hadn't actually used CB Crobat yet, I wasn't really sure what moves or spread I should use. U-turn and Brave Bird are a must for Crobat because that's what Crobat uses 99% of the time. I tested a few other options like Pursuit, Cross Poison, and even Zen Headbutt (yeah I don't know either...ask rem). I'm not a fan of choiced Taunt, but it really saves my ass against stupid Baton Pass teams, and it's also occasionally useful for forry/skarm/etc. Super Fang is mainly for when Crobat is about to die and Brave Bird doesn't do enough. Don't let the speed EVs throw you off (it's pointless to run max speed just to tie with Aerodactyl and Jolteon); Crobat is still faster than all base 115s, Scarftar, and stuff that beat scarftar by 1 point. After maxing Crobat's Attack, I decided to use 72 HP EVs for a good SR number and then dumped the rest in Defense so Close Combats, Seed Bombs, Focus Punches, Dynamicpunches, u-turns, etc. would be easier to take and switch into.

I know a lot of people like the lead match-up thing so here it is:

Azelf - U-turn to Metagross and Bullet Punch
Aerodactyl - Switch to Metagross and use Bullet Punch. If it didn't taunt, then I set up stealth rock.
Swampert - U-turn to Heatran (it won't Earthquake) and use Hidden Power Grass
Metagross - U-turn to Heatran and use Magma Storm
Machamp - Brave Bird
Jirachi - Switch to Metagross, use Stealth Rock
Infernape - Brave Bird 2HKO (sash), Fake Out can't flinch
Ninjask - Taunt
Tyranitar - U-turn to Metagross, then normally I use stealth rock and then Hammer Arm, possibly Bullet Punch if I'm slower
Heatran - U-turn to Suicune
Roserade - U-turn to Metagross and Bullet Punch
Hippowdon - U-turn to Suicune
Uxie - U-turn to Metagross, use Stealth Rock
Smeargle - U-turn to Metagross and Bullet Punch
Gliscor - U-turn to Suicune
Bronzong - U-turn to Metagross, use Stealth Rock
Dragonite - U-turn to Metagross for the STAB attack (Extremespeed doesn't do much to Crobat), then switch to Suicune

Worst match-ups include aerodactyl and some random choice stuff like scarf azelf and CB dragonite, but as you can see, no common lead is anything more than bothersome.

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Metagross @ Lum Berry
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 228 HP / 252 Atk / 28 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Bullet Punch
- Explosion
- Hammer Arm

Metagross is a great partner for Crobat because it handles many of the leads that Crobat has trouble with. The two leads that actually outpace Crobat, Scarfrachi and Aerodactyl, are easily dealt with by Metagross. I usually don't like using lead Metagross because it's boring and predictable and just not very effective, but LumGross with Bullet Punch is just so good with Crobat that I needed to use it. Stealth Rock and Bullet Punch was a must, and I really wanted explosion so I can blow up shit I don't like. I tried Earthquake and Meteor Mash in the last spot, but they both sucked, so I searched Metagross' moves for something useful. I ended up trying Hammer Arm, and it wasn't completely useless, so I kept it. With Hammer Arm, Metagross doesn't have to blow up on Blissey or Snorlax, and I still can still OHKO Tyranitar. Also, Magnezone usually fails to trap me, especially if it tries to Magnet Rise, lol. I need the Lum Berry for sleep powder/spore/twave leads and also to scout other pokemon like blissey for status moves.

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Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Electric]

Suicune is such a great pokemon because it checks a ton of stuff, it's easy to use, and it's extremely hard to take down as well without Blissey or LO/Specs T-bolt. Even if my opponent tricks a choice item, they now have to deal with a choiced +1 Hydro Pump, and their Rotom/Jirachi is probably dead now, too. With Heatran everywhere these days, I think it is very important to have something like Suicune or Vaporeon to safely switch into it. Suicune is usually my first Dragonite switch-in as well because they usually try to eq or fire blast stuff on my team before using Dragon Dance, if they have it. Because I have leftovers, my opponent won't know immediately if I have Ice Beam / Hidden Power Electric or not. Unfortunately, leftovers plus 3 attacks has become more common so people are more careful, but for every four or five people that play it safe on the ladder, there is one person that foolishly switches in their Breloom or bulky Gyarados. Speaking of Gyarados, Hidden Power Electric is my main way of beating Gyarados as well as Empoleon and Vaporeon if the last member of my team isn't around. I definitely prefer Hydro Pump over Surf for the extra power, especially with leftovers.

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Flygon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- U-turn
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Toxic

I liked Flygon before Latias got banned, I liked Flygon after Latias got banned, and now I like it even more with Salamence gone as well. It's sort of hard to explain why Flygon is so good because it doesn't look too good on paper (or at least that's what I thought at first), but after playing with it for a few games, one realizes that it is actually quite effective. Flygon is the first of two much-needed Electric-immune pokemon on my team as well as the second of two much-needed Ground-immune pokemon as well, and Flygon has many more useful resistances that the rest of this team benefits from too. It is also my second U-turn user on my team, which is so useful because I can finish something off with one U-turn user and go to the other U-turn user to U-turn the switch-in. Since Latias and Salamence are banned, teams are less prepared for the leftover OU Dragons, making it easier to spam Outrage mid and late-game. I don't need stone edge or thunderpunch because gyarados/gengar are not problems at all, and fire blast sort of sucks. Toxic may seem ridiculous but it helps with bulky waters, namely vaporeon, which can be a real pain.

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Heatran @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 128 HP / 168 Spd / 212 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Magma Storm
- Taunt
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Earth Power

Next up is Heatran, or "HeaTrap" as some call it. When Salamence was banned, the FGW became very popular. The Water and Grass part of the core changes from team to team; the water-type could be Vaporeon, Suicune, Gyarados, Starmie, Kingdra, or even something else, and the grass-type could be Celebi, Shaymin, Breloom, or Roserade. However, the fire-type of the FGW core is always the same - Heatran - and that is why I think Heatran is the #1 used pokemon right now. Anyways, the common battler doesn't need much explanation about Heatran and what it does, but I will briefly review. Heatran provides great resistances for the team, and it's STAB fire attack can really devastate unprepared teams. I chose this kind of Heatran because it really helps tear stall teams apart, especially by trapping and killing blissey. With Blissey gone, Suicune can pretty much sweep if it is in good health. With 212 SpA and a Modest nature, Magma Storm will really dent almost anything that switches in, even if it resists the attack. Hidden Power Grass is very important because otherwise Swampert is quite annoying for this team to deal with. Earth Power is useful for stuff that Magma Storm and Hidden Power Grass can't hit as hard like opposing Heatran as well as Tyranitar and Roosting Zapdos, or just when I don't want to risk using Magma Storm because of the low accuracy. Taunt is essential on this set because it stops blissey/vappy/etc. from healing, and it really helps me beat stall. I honestly don't really know what the EV spread does, I just copied it from the analysis and it works fine for me so I just left it.

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Lanturn @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 52 HP / 60 Spd / 252 SAtk / 144 SDef
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Surf
- Thunder Wave
- Charge Beam
- Substitute

Last, but certainly not least, is Lanturn. Lanturn was the last member to join the team, and to be honest it is probably the weakest link, however it still does it's job pretty well and it's also incredibly underrated. Lanturn is my second Electric-immune Pokemon, and boy does that come in handy. Lanturn is a great switch-in for many special attackers including Rotom-a, Starmie, Jolteon, Zapdos, Suicune, Vaporeon, and more. The difference between my Lanturn set and the OU Sub Charge Beam set in C&C is that I have Thunder Wave instead of Ice Beam. I prefer Thunder Wave because it is easy to spread paralysis around and it is easy to abuse it as well. With Thunder Wave, it is very hard for my opponent to set up on me unless it is a trick room bronzong. I usually use substitute the first time I bring Lanturn in to see what my opponent has for it because a lot of people expect Thunder Wave or another electric move so they switch in their ground-type like Flygon, which puts me in an unfavorable position. With Leftovers, Substitute and Thunder Wave, my opponent will usually think my attacks are pretty weak and therefore underestimate the power of Lanturn's attacks. Some relevant notable calcs include the following: Surf 2HKOes offensive Rotom-a, Charge Beam with a single boost 2HKOes Vaporeon as well as offensive Suicune, and Surf 2HKOes Jolteon. Ice Beam would be useful for Grass-types, however there are a lot more times when I prefer to have Thunder Wave. Crobat can come in usually for free against Shaymin and Celebi to fire off a Brave Bird or use U-turn, and if I paralyze them with Thunder Wave, Heatran can also usually come in on the STAB grass attack. This Lanturn is cool because it can usually beat Blissey 1v1 even with sandstorm up, and unless I have truly horrible luck, I'm pretty sure Lanturn can always beat Blissey with no sandstorm (I've always beaten it when that was the case). After Blissey is gone, I usually have a sub and +6 special attack, so something else will have to go down on my opponent's team as well. The biggest problem I think Lanturn has in general is the fact that it cannot heal itself, however I normally don't mind this because it still manages to stay alive for quite a while most of the time, long enough for me to weaken stuff and spread some paralysis around at least. One might think at first that Lanturn is redundant with Suicune in many ways, but it totally isn't; in fact the only thing they really have in common is their STAB water attack. The EVs are pretty standard because the spread in C&C seemed just fine and exactly what I wanted: enough HP for 101 subs, maxed out special attack, and the rest in SpD. At first I did not want any speed EVs because I did not think it would matter, having Thunder Wave, but then I read what the speed EVs were for and I changed my mind; I definitely needed to outpace Vaporeon so I could sub before it uses Toxic against me, because Lanturn getting poisoned sucks big time. Besides Metagross setting up Stealth Rock, thankfully my team does not give Forretress a chance to set up anything (Toxic Spikes) unless Flygon is locked into something that Forretress can switch into.

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Final Thoughts
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There isn't really a goal that the team aims to accomplish; my strategy changes from one battle to the next. For example, if the other team has blissey, my strategy is all about trapping blissey so my special attackers can eventually sweep the team. This team is very bulky with lots of resistances/immunites, and my play is based around that, while still maintaining offensive pressure and not letting my opponent gain any momentum. I utilize my two U-turners to the fullest extent in every battle. When Crobat comes in to use U-turn, I will see what kind of steel-type my opponent has to switch in, and then when I weaken the steel-type enough or it dies, Crobat has a great time with Brave Bird, even 2hkoing offensive rotom-a (and defensive zapdos is rare). The style of this team is a little different than other balanced and bulky offense teams, which is why I wouldn't mind if raters tested this team out a bit before making a rate if they are unsure about how this team works or something of that nature.

In conclusion, this team has been extremely fun to use, and I highly recommend the use of CB Crobat, now that I don't care about people knowing about it, and I also recommend the use of Lanturn in OU as well. A big thanks to Phil for helping me and answering all my questions as well as for just being a cool guy, and thanks to icepick for that sick graphic at the beginning of this rmt (slightly edited by me)!

 

[les gets]

Threat List
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Black = not a threat
Orange = threat
Red = big threat
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Heatran: Suicune is a great counter, and Flygon, Lanturn, and even my own Heatran can all step up to the plate, if needed. Heatran can only switch in safely against my metagross when it uses stealth rock, and against crobat as well, but more often then not I will be using U-turn, and Brave Bird will still always 3hko it not including stealth rock, so it needs to be careful.
Scizor: Heatran is a great switch in obviously, and both suicune and lanturn can handle it. Crobat can switch in on any move except swords dance + bullet punch, and Brave Bird does ~75% to the bulkiest of scizors while a cb bullet punch does only 40%.
Rotom-A: Heatran and Lanturn together can beat any rotom-a there is. Flygon can switch in on thunderbolt and u-turn it to see if it is a choiced one, and from there I can deal with it accordingly. If defensive rotom-a is paired with blissey, I can use heatran to get rid of blissey and then all my special attackers can have fun switching in on rotom-a and firing off attacks. Rotom-a is usually the first switch-in for my crobat, especially offensive ones, even though Brave Bird @HKOes them.
Tyranitar: Metagross can switch in on anything and OHKO back, except when tyranitar uses dragon dance, uses earthquake, and has a life orb, which thankfully isn't that common nowadays. Flygon and Crobat can both U-turn it, and Suicune can take it on as well. This all applies to choice tyranitar as well, except it's even easier to handle. Choice band tyranitar may seem like it would be annoying, but without a scarf or a dragon dance up, my entire team can outpace it and OHKO or come close to OHKOing it. Leads are a joke, see lead comparisons.
Gyarados: My team handles Gyarados very nicely. Suicune can beat any and all gyarados, Brave Bird will dent it heavily, Metagross can explode, and gyara can't switch in on lanturn because I'll usually get a sub up. Gyarados usually switches in on Heatran which it cannot do more than once or twice if Stealth Rock is up. And of course, flygon can revenge any gyarados as well. I could use max speed on crobat to outpace adamant +1 gyarados, but gyarados isn't a problem for my team, so it's not worth it.
Metagross: Heatran scares away any metagross, and even if it has occa berry (I haven't seen one since I made this team) as well as earthquake, I can still beat it since I have shuca berry. Heatran can beat any agiligross, and depending on what the 3 attacks are, there is usually something else on my team that can take it down as well. Metagross has never been a problem for me.
Jirachi: For scarfrachi, if I don't have stealth rock up yet, Metagross basically gets a free switch to do that. Otherwise, anything except crobat on my team can switch in safely depending on the situation. For cm Jirachis, I have heatran and flygon. If I have just one of them late game, I can beat cm jirachi no problem. If both of them happen to be gone, I can usually explode with metagross and bring in something else to finish it off before it has a chance to wish up.
Infernape: Crobat outpaces and OHKOes, and Suicune can take a hit and OHKO, as well as Lanturn, depending on the situation. Flygon revenges any infernape. It can't switch in safely on anything, magma storm + stealth rock pretty much kills it. Metagross is never staying in for infernape to switch in unless I have a damn good reason to, such as setting up stealth rock or hammer arming blissey (infernape gets killed by hammer arm anyways). Leads are no trouble at all.
Dragonite: When I had just finished making the team, I thought that Dragonite might be a problem for this team, but it has given me no trouble at all. Suiciune can switch in on anything and OHKO back with Ice Beam. Lanturn will paralyze dragonite, Crobat will wreck it with Brave Bird, Metagross can take any attack and explode if needed, and Flygon can revenge.
Lucario: Nothing on my team lets Lucario set up. If it gets a swords dance up, then I'm in trouble, but it won't get one.
Gengar: Much like Lucario, Gengar has a hard time finding a time to come in and attack or get a sub up. I think out of maybe 6 or 7 gengars that I've played, only one of them was able to get a sub up, and I was able to play around it. Every member of my team matches up well against gengar except for heatran, and gengar cannot switch in without something else fainting first. Gengar has never been a problem for me.
Swampert: I almost made swampert's name orange because it can be a pain to kill, but it really can't do much to me in return besides some nicely-timed roars. Most swamperts I see are leads, and as I said before in the lead comparisons, U-turn + Hidden Power Grass will always take it out if my opponent is foolish enough to stay in. If swampert had recover I think I'd have to make swampert's name red, because the reason why swampert isn't a problem is because I can pretty safely chip away at its health until it dies, often via u-turn from crobat and flygon.
Starmie: There is no better counter to any starmie than lanturn. Flygon and Crobat can kill it with u-turn as well.
Blissey: I come across blissey just as often as heatran it seems like. Blissey will always show itself early in the match due to my 3 special attackers. If it comes in on heatran and magma storm hits, then blissey dies or blissey is left extremely weak, too weak to switch out, come in taking sr damage, and heal itself. If Blissey comes in on lanturn as a sub, and there is no sandstorm, then lanturn can beat blissey 1v1 and then kill something else as well. If blissey comes in early game on lanturn with sand up, or if it comes in on suicune, then I will switch to Metagross to get stealth rock up, as well as to scout for what kind of status move it has. If I already have stealth rock up and blissey comes in forcing me to switch, then I'll either switch to metagross to force it out, or stall it a bit with double switches etc., depending on the situation and then force it out some other way. Once I get heatran in, I will lure blissey out to trap it and kill it.
Azelf: Mostly seen as a lead, see lead comparisons. For other versions (I've seen one or two) like nasty plot, depending on what attack I think it could use, I can switch to heatran or possibly to one of my u-turners to take it out.
Gliscor: Crobat can 2hko with Brave Bird, and gliscor cannot do a thing back. Suicune counters it easily as well. Flygon has toxic as well
Magnezone: It will usually come in against metagross thinking it can trap me, which it can, but it'll get left with ~12% after I use hammer arm. Heatran beats it and, without hp grass, lanturn has a jolly time. Flygon too.
Skarmory: It will get a layer of spikes as I switch out from Metagross, and that is they only time I will see skarmory, unless it comes in to die or flygon/crobat are choice locked into something other than u-turn, which is extremely rare of me to do after skarmory is revealed.
Machamp: Crobat
Vaporeon: Lanturn is a great counter for this thing, but it cannot stay alive for ever, and vaporeon can. Suicune can set up on it, but I also need to save suicune for other things. If those two are gone, as a last ditch effort, I can explode with metagross or attempt to kill it with brave bird. If I can at least paralyze vaporeon with lanturn before lanturn dies, I will have a better shot at beating it. Flygon can usually poison vappy midgame when the steels get worn out, so that helps a ton if lanturn wasn't able to use thunder wave. I can usually kill vappy, but it is a massive pain if it's part of a well-played fgw core.
Breloom: Let something take the sleep, switch to Crobat.
Zapdos: I have only faced a couple Zapdos, both offensive-oriented, and both times I brought Lanturn in to Thunder Wave it (hp grass isn't the end of the world). From there, I can use Heatran/Suicune/Lanturn to beat it. Sometimes Flygon can toxic it as well.
Flygon: Crobat and my own flygon can usually switch in to use U-turn after my opponent u-turns. Flygon is always my opponent's first switch into Lanturn, so it'll take ~50% from surf if it stays in, or I can use thunder wave if I think it will use u-turn. Suicune and Crobat beat any other kind of Flygon.
Kingdra: I've seen a lot of these, and for a reason I will never understand, most people, including several great battlers, like to switch in kingdra when crobat is out, even after they have seen that I have Brave Bird. They get OHKOed by Brave Bird every time. Suicune can beat it 1v1 and Flygon can revenge. Lanturn can do something to it as well.
Suicune: Basically the same thing as vaporeon, except Suicune cannot heal itself. If I actually came across crocune more then 0 times, then I would make suicune's name orange.
Celebi: Crobat and Heatran both beat it no problem, and it's easy to predict celebi coming in when I have suicune out, so ice beam will hurt it. Lanturn can't hurt celebi, but the paralysis helps a lot.
Jolteon: Lanturn and Flygon
Empoleon: Lanturn and Suicune
Forretress: Pretty much the same as Skarmory.
Bronzong: I'll switch in metagross if I don't have stealth rock up yet, otherwise any of my special attackers can beat it, preferably Heatran.
Togekiss: It was pretty weak against my team then one time I played it. Lanturn, suicune, and crobat can all beat it.
Aerodactyl: Metagross, Suicune
Weavile: Metagross, Suicune, Lanturn
Tentacruel: I've never seen one, I guess it might suck because toxic spikes ruins Lanturn. Other than that, idc
Snorlax: Why doesn't Snorlax get more usage? Anyways, the cursing ones are dangerous to this team. I will harmer arm one time with metagross, which will do maybe 33% after a curse, and that will make my opponent think it can beat be using rest. After I hammer arm I try to explode to beat it. If it switches out (I have faced a cursing snorlax maybe 3 times, and it never has), then it has a great chance to sweep my team. If the moveset is rest/curse/body slam/crunch, then heatran can taunt it and possibly beat it or let something else on my team finish it off. If metagross is gone late in the match then gg, but I will usually see snorlax early in the match since suicune/lanturn/heatran lure it out.
Mamoswine: Suicune, Metagross with Bullet Punch, and Crobat can survive ice shard and OHKO
Roserade: I will try not to let it set up spikes. Once I see it, I can usually do a good job of not letting it get any more layers. It can only get layers up on Lanturn, possibly something else with sleep powder.
Hippowdon: Sort of annoying but Suicune and Lanturn can beat it. Flygon has toxic too.

Hax: I hate hax with a passion, even when it's good. Magma Storm's accuracy is gay

 

[Smith]

Okay I saw that this thread was dying with no posts and that you had made it, and I was such a fan of your last RMT when it came out I have to rate this one! But seriously this is an awesome team, anti-metagame, unique and powerful all rolled up into one. That said my rate is going to be pretty short, because the team doesn't need that much improvement and I'm basically only posting because (a) this thread is too cool to die with no posts and (b) I want to gush a bit.

Okay so your threats list is thankfully very monotone with only two oranges. Can't do anything about hax, but I can see some solutions for Vaporeon and Snorlax. Basically power special attackers are the best way to bring down Snorlax, and Vaporeon needs to be countered by a grass type that can shake off status (Toxic is the only reason Vappy is a threat because Lanturn is the perfect counter, sets up on that (BAN ME PLEASE)). But unfornuately, I'm going to suggest a removal of Lanturn. I love SubCharge Lanturn as much as the next guy, but I think that a LO Shaymin would solve your problems. I'll leave the set to you, Leech Seed is probably good but basically Shaymin gives you an electric resist, counters the above threats, and fulfills many of the same roles of Lanturn. Now that's not to say that he checks Starmie and friends as competently as Lanturn, because he doesn't, and he's certainly not a cool but he still definitely helps you with that. Starmie can still be handled, it just requires some prediction and a little help from Mr. 4 moveslot syndrome.

That's all the advice I have, seriously excellent team. Hope this helps, and BUMP.

 

[AntiMetaGame]

Props for using a CB Crobat! My friend used one the first time I battled him. One thing I think you should consider. If a Curselax and Wish Vaporeon gives you trouble, you can always taunt them with Crobat. If Vaporeon has Toxic, Crobat gets a free switch in and can easily cripple both. I wouldn't risk Heatran for obvious reasons, but like you said, Explode if you have too.

 

[undisputed]

Hey so I wanted to rate this team, but then I forgot, and now I'm back.

Obviously its pretty good, but I can't figure out how you get past Grass Type Pokemon. Celebi kind of walls you as long as your opponent is even semi conservative with it. I don't think anyone will let it take a Crobat U-turn or a Heatran Fire move, and then it beats practically everything else save an Explosion from Metagross, and you only get one shot to get that prediction right. Shaymin isn't as defensive, but it one or 2hkoes everything save Crobat, and Crobat's switches are limited by Stealth Rock. Thats the main issue I see personally.

To fix it, I would highly recommend changing to Ice Beam if you want to keep Lanturn on the team. If you're up for more of a change, then I would recommend trying out Scarf Rotom-a which will handle pretty much everything you have trouble with, and then make Flygon Choice Banded to better deal with Grass type Mons and U-turn. You could also try Sub-Split LO Rotom-a, but then you seem kind of Blissey weak. I don't know how often you get Blisseys trapped by Heatran, so I'll leave that as a side idea.

Anyway, nice team, and good luck.

 

[les gets]

Thanks for the rates so far! I definitely see where you are coming from undisputed, but grass-types just aren't as annoying to deal with as you say they are. Crobat/Flygon will be brave birding or u-turning, and they cannot switch in against suicune when it uses calm mind because of ice beam, which leaves metagross, lanturn, and heatran. You say lanturn cannot do anything, but it can; I will sub as they switch in, and they'll break my sub as I paralyze them, which makes Heatran (and metagross) faster, which is helpful. Metagross can just explode or I can just predict what my opponent will do and switch to the appropriate mon. On paper is seems like grass-types are hard for me to handle but they haven't been more than bothersome to me, so I do not think I will make any changes for that, but I might test some of your suggestions anyway. Thanks for the rate.

 

[Woe of Tyrants]

Starmie spins away Rocks so that Crobat can safely switch in and out, and it also serves the same purpose as Suicune.

Gonna suggest this guy;

Starmie @ Life Orb
4 Hp/252 SpA/252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Surf
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Rapid Spin

 

[les gets]

The idea behind that suggestion is good, but Starmie is no where near as bulky as suicune, and life orb does not help its cause. Also, Starmie cannot reliably check as much stuff as suicune can, stuff like dragonite and gyarados.

 

[Slurray]

Starmie@Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
Calm: 126 HP/ 252 SpA / 126 Spe
-Surf
-Thunderbolt
-Ice Beam
-Rapid Spin

Starmie is naturally fast. This makes it bulkier while still being able to hit back hard, but I honestly can't tell you how well the EVs will work. Also, status absorber.

------------

Alternatively:

Tentacruel@Leftovers
Ability: Liquid Ooze
Calm: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD
-Toxic Spikes
-Rapid Spin
-Surf
-Sludge Bomb / Hidden Power Electric

 

[Super Mario Bro]

Hi,

I'm not really sure that I like that CB Crobat set. Without roost, it's not going to live very long with recoil and hazards quickly depleting its heatlh, and it's never ever good to be locked into moves like Super Fang and Taunt. Because of this, I think you should just use a standard Crobat, who can switch in endlessly against grass types.

Crobat @ Leftovers
Jolly
EVs: 232 HP/76 Atk/56 Def/144 Spe
-Taunt
-Brave Bird
-U-Turn
-Roost

I have personally had the most success with that EV spread, but you may also rotate those 72 Atk EVs into Special Defense if you want. Those EVs let you outspeed ScarfTar and you are always able to survive Adamant Lucario's +2 Extremespeed.

If you decide to go against my wishes and keep CB Crobat, you should seriously consider a Vaporeon over Suicune who can keep your Crobat (and the rest of your team) healthy with Wish.

Good luck!

 

[les gets]

Hi,

I'm not really sure that I like that CB Crobat set. Without roost, it's not going to live very long with recoil and hazards quickly depleting its heatlh, and it's never ever good to be locked into moves like Super Fang and Taunt. Because of this, I think you should just use a standard Crobat, who can switch in endlessly against grass types.

Crobat @ Leftovers
Jolly
EVs: 232 HP/76 Atk/56 Def/144 Spe
-Taunt
-Brave Bird
-U-Turn
-Roost

I have personally had the most success with that EV spread, but you may also rotate those 72 Atk EVs into Special Defense if you want. Those EVs let you outspeed ScarfTar and you are always able to survive Adamant Lucario's +2 Extremespeed.

If you decide to go against my wishes and keep CB Crobat, you should seriously consider a Vaporeon over Suicune who can keep your Crobat (and the rest of your team) healthy with Wish.

Good luck!

First of all let me emphasize the fact that I very rarely use Taunt or Super Fang, I guess I was not clear enough about that. There are obvious benefits with using roost and lefties with a more defensive spread, but the whole beauty of cb crobat is how fucking powerful it is with brave bird and the fast cb u-turn as well. I am sure your set works well too, but your set is different; not better. If you are "not really sure" you like cb crobat, you should try it out, and then who knows, you might change your mind. Vaporeon is a better suggestion that I might try and the idea is good, however the reason why I prefer suicune is because the offensive nature that suicune has fits my team better. Thanks for the rate SMB!

 

[Rising_Dusk]

Hey Cost,

Crobat is a beast Pokemon, and your team actually supports him and itself really well. There's definitely not much I'd change, but I think there's one change that might be worth considering on your team.

Consider trying CurseLax over Lanturn
​

I make this suggestion because mostly you're using Lanturn for checking Electric-type attacks, Starmie, and other stuff of that nature. Snorlax actually does all of these things as well, and can even set up on them. Try the following:

Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 188 HP / 104 Def / 216 SpD
Careful nature (+SpD, -SpA)
~ Curse
~ Body Slam
~ Crunch
~ Rest

This gives Snorlax some longevity, lets him switch in and even set up against Starmie, Jolteon, and Heatran, the strongest special hitters you'll see around. You can then actually go to town with Snorlax. Snorlax also checks a lot of things that Lanturn is sketchy about, such as Heatran's Earth Power or Shaymin's Seed Flare, which will help your team an absolute ton.

If you try Snorlax, you might consider a bulky Starmie as a partner over Suicune to at least have a second Fighting-type resistance besides Crobat.

Other than this suggestion, I can't see any glaring flaws in your team. Good job! +luvdisc

 

[Junk]

Although this isn't that much of a problem, since Flygon has even defenses, putting the extra 4 EVs into Special Defense would probably be better than 4 EVs in HP so that Porygon-Z doesn't get the SpA boost.

 

[Faladran]

Hey Cost,

So as everyone else has mentioned, this is just a great team overall (I was actually slightly jealous initially that I didn't get assigned to Phil during B101). Anyway, I like RD's Curselax suggestion for the reasons he brought up, so it may be worth trying out. The only thing I'm concerned about is if it would slow down the offensive pace of your team at all, but it's generally an attacker by nature as well, so it shouldn't be too big of a problem. It also opens up an opportunity for Lucario to switch in though, and Jolly SD variants could be difficult to face late-game.

Since you've brought up Vaporeon as being among the biggest defensive problems for your team to face, I was thinking of suggesting a Chesto Rest Kingdra to replace Lanturn. It retains the ability to set up against bulky water-types while being able to set up safely against LO Starmie. Although it does share some similarities with Lanturn in terms of Pokemon it can switch into, using it will leave you more vulnerable to Zapdos, so it's really up to you here.

Good luck with your team!

 

[eastamazonantidote]

I'm not a fan of changing pokemon, so I'll try to work with what you have already (though ChestoRest Kingdra seems like a pretty solid fit).

Crobat really wants Roost. Once your opponent knows it's choiced you'll get ample opportunities to Roost on switches. Over Taunt or Super Fang? I'm a huge fan of Super Fang but I feel that it is more replaceable than Taunt. Also, Taunt could be replaced with Whirlwind, though choicing into a negative priority attack isn't the best option most of the time. Also, you want to max out your speed to take on Adamant DDGyara.

I'm very tempted to drop Charge Beam on Lanturn for Thunderbolt. A +1 Charge Beam does less damage than a regular Thunderbolt. Hell, a +2 Charge Beam does about the same as a regular Thunderbolt. The boosted Surf is nice, but immediate damage is usually more helpful than chances at boosting. Also, have you considered Confuse Ray? Forcing extra switches (especially against those Natural Cure grassers) is a great way of wearing down opposing pokemon. Also, your opponent now attacks a Sub-up Lanturn only 50% of the time. Just something to think about.

 

[les gets]

@ Rising_dusk - Snorlax and Lanturn are extremely similar, and snorlax fits ok with the rest of my team, but it just doesn't quite fit as well as lanturn. If I replace lanturn with snorlax, I become lucario weak because the rest of my team cannot handle +2 attacks. Lanturn makes sure nothing sets up on it with thunder wave, and it is also a bit more offensive which fits this team better. If I ever decide to test some changes, I'll probably try curselax first (even though I've used it on this team before already). Thanks for the rate!

@ Faladran - ChestoRest Kingdra is an excellent pokemon, and I might try it out, but it does not fit as well as lanturn does in my opinion. Thanks for the rate man.

@ easta - Actually, Crobat does not want Roost at all, and no, I don't want to max my speed for adamant gyara because it is not a problem at all for this team, therefore I'd much rather have the extra bulk, as stated in the op. Charge Beam does enough damage to gyara and it allows me to set up and beat vappy/suicune/blissey 1v1, and the boosted surfs are deadly. I can't afford to replace any of my moves for another move which relies on hax to be effective. Thanks for the rate though.

 

[franky]

alright got the pm.. hmm Explosion > taunt on heatran allows you to get rid of blissey immediately because magma storm is not efficient enough to hit 8 times in a row. blissey gones means everyone will sweep sufficiently easier because it really is annoying. additionally, explosion can sometimes help deal with vaporeon. another suggestion i like is ice beam over thunder wave to bather grass-types for se. good luck, this is a breathe of fresh air cost and welcome back!

giving this some hearts

 

[ENZ0]

Sup Cost,

BEAST team! CB PR0BAT is so G00D and underrated, you support a sweep easily. There really isn't much to say, but i got after battling this team so many times I got a few nitpicks. Try Payback over Taunt on PR0BAT cuz I recently realized it can take out Rotom. You might want to use Iron Ball Metagross to abuse Flygon and Heatran's Ground-Type move. Suicune was, is, and will always be a B0SS. Zapdos with Substitute, Hidden Power Grass, and/or Toxic (L0L) is annoying, so I suggest using Stone Edge over Toxic on Flygon. Definitely use Explosion over Taunt on Heatran; I really don't see how good it can fare on this Heatran set without being a full-on LO set. No comment on Lanturn lol cuz I realized after you supporting it that it can really fcuk stuff up. Hope this helps dude, and good luck!!!

Looking forward to you coming out strong in the upcoming tournaments! Thanks BR0 for being awesome!

 

[MazeL]

I noticed that Lanturn is really an oddball on your team. All it is really doing is checking special threats. In the place of Lanturn, I would use a CurseLax of your own. The set of Body Slam / Crunch / Rest / Curse works really efficiently. As for the EV's you would want to maximize Special Bulk, by maxing out Sp. Def, and HP, although I am unsure if you should add attack EV's. If statuppers are not your thing, a BandLax would be your thing.

Snorlax @ Choice Band / Muscle Band
Ability: Thick Fat
Nature: Adamant
EV's: 252 Atk / 252 SpD / 4 HP
-Body Slam / Return
-Pursuit
-Earthquake
-Fire Punch

The Choice Banded version hits like a truck, although is risky locking a pokemon that slow into a move. Selfdestruct is also an option in place of Fire Punch or Earthquake, to end with a bang. Body Slam is used over Return for the chance of Paralysis. For as the Muscle Band set goes, it runs the same EV's, moveset as the Band set, but bluffs the Choice Band. There is no Leftovers recovery, so most people will think it is the Choice Band set.

That is all I have to say. Great team all together, especially with the use of Crobat running the Choice Band set. Goodluck for the future.

 

[les gets]

@ franky & enz0 - Thanks for the rates guys, I'm addressing both of you at the same time since you both suggested using explosion on heatran. This is something that I have thought about before and decided that I didn't want to do it, but thinking about it a second time, I think explosion might actually be good on heatran. However I do not think taunt is the move to replace; I think earth power is the weakest move on the team because it is mainly for hitting ttar/heatran for SE damage and also for hitting other stuff neutrally so I don't have to use ms/hp grass, such as finishing off a scizor. I really like taunt for messing with stall-ish pokemon and I think it is much more useful than earth power. Even though I'll barely use this team at all anymore in the future, I will definitely consider this change. Also enz0, payback is an interesting option but payback requires some prediction, and it is not the best attack to be locked in on, especially since crobat is faster than everything, plus I really need taunt for baton pass teams and defensive pokemon when the time comes. You have the right idea about zapdos but stone edge will not help me against defensive ones because stone edge cannot 2hko so it can roost+pp stall me very easily. Besides, if I am going to use a move against zapdos (switching in, or just non-sub ones, which is thankfully pretty common), wouldn't toxic be like, the best move ever? haha anyways thanks for the rate enz0, and you too franky!

@ maze - I have talked about curselax already, and I don't want to use choice snorlax because this team cannot afford more than 1 or 2 pokemon setting up against me in one battle. Thanks for the rate though!

 

[Siegrin]

I don't really like the idea of metagross having hammer arm, I'd recommend you switch it to Earthquake, which has good damage over many enemies. Lately, I've been testing out Max Speed Metagross and it actually works, maybe you should give that a shot, along with adding Ice punch somewhere along the set to be a Dragonite counter, as they occasionally switch in to metagross. The reason for Ice Punch is that many people don't expect it and they switch Ice weak pokemon in.

 

[les gets]

I don't really need ice punch because dragonite isn't a problem for this team. Earthquake has its uses, but I like I said in the op, hammer arm still hits a lot of what earthquake hits for SE damage as well as hitting blissey, snorlax, tyranitar, and some others for SE damage. Thanks for the suggestion though.

 

[Xcallion x]

i love the team but it seems that you use metagrosses explosion to deal with too many things. if your meta explodes to get a free switch/kill a threat then what do you do about something like snorlax when it comes in and starts setting up? i thought that a bulky starmie set could work wonders in place of lanturn.
Starmie@Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
Calm: 126 HP/ 252 SpA / 126 Spe
-Surf
-Thunderbolt
-Ice Beam
-Recover/Rapid Spin
This set would also let crobat get in more often if you run rapid spin.

 

[les gets]

Blissey and Snorlax will show themselves early in the game due to my three special attackers, so I know to save metagross when that happens. Starmie doesn't fit in lanturn's spot for many reasons, typing being an obvious one. Thanks though

 

[les gets]

using my bump :)