I really doubt anything with Shadow Tag is going to sneak out of the uber tier. That being said, Porygon2 still resists ghost and with the pre-evolution item it'll be able to take a few hits. Seems it can learn Shadow Ball from now on too, so you can still Trace Shadow Tag and kill it if it's running a choice item. I loved this thing back in third gen and I'm glad to see it might get a jump in popularity.
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Porygon2
- Thread starter Garganator
- Start date
If two Pokemon with Shadow Tag are in play, they both can switch.
Dugtrio was never banned for having an ability that functioned like Shadow Tag most of the time. It's not the ability; it's what the Pokemon can do with it, and that remains to be seen.
That said, nothing can really counter Shadow Tag Shanderaa, so it isn't much of a concern. However, Porygon2 will really be changing what it means to be a defensive Pokemon in this metagame.
Tyranitar pisses all over Shandeera, even with hp fighting.
Porygon like previously said could just learn Shadow Ball if it is that much of a concern/threat. Discharge also does a fair amount of damage, and threatens with a paralysis.
Porygon like previously said could just learn Shadow Ball if it is that much of a concern/threat. Discharge also does a fair amount of damage, and threatens with a paralysis.
I didn't mean to imply the ability itself should be banned, but you said it nicely. Shandera can just -theoretically- set up ridiculously easy if he has it.
I wasn't aware of that btw, they can both switch? Back in third gen I'm pretty sure I could trap Dugtrio with P2. It doesn't seem to make sense that this is changed.
I wasn't aware of that btw, they can both switch? Back in third gen I'm pretty sure I could trap Dugtrio with P2. It doesn't seem to make sense that this is changed.
Double switchouts from Shadow Tag have been around since 4th gen, I was there, I saw. Wobbuffet vs. Wobbuffet was no longer the worst thing that ever happened.
Shadow Tag's mechanics were changed in Gen IV to stop the scenario of two Wobbuffets trapping each other, unable to switch or kill each other, resulting in the game becoming completely stuck. I don't know about Arena Trap, but I'm sure Gen III is no representation.
Thanks for explaining. ;)
Yeah, Porygon2 was always considered to be a good check to certain threats (like Intimidaters, ...) and it could have been a wonderful check (read: revenge killer) for Shandera, probably saving him a piece of Tyranitar's cake. But oh well...
I can't even count the number of tough matches Porygon2 has carried me through in Gen IV, and it'll only get better with the addition of the "prevo" stone in Gen V. As I see it, however, his sets and purpose won't change much. Magic coat's buff is a nice plus, but beyond that, he's still going to use the "defensive duck" set with trace, the charge beam sweeper set with analyze, or the trick room support set. Trick specs is still usable, but sadly, analyze and trick can't be used together. And I don't like Pory2 using a straight up 4 attacks specs set, when PoryZ and a hundred others do the job much better.
Using Trace or Analyze depends of two things:
1) What do you want to counter?
2) What moveset will you use with it? which partly depends of the former
PS. I like the new inclusion of the Pre-evolution Stone, it makes some overshadowed Pokémon in great counters of dangerous threats (and thanks to that, we can have a good DDSalamence counter for 5th gen metagame).
1) What do you want to counter?
2) What moveset will you use with it? which partly depends of the former
PS. I like the new inclusion of the Pre-evolution Stone, it makes some overshadowed Pokémon in great counters of dangerous threats (and thanks to that, we can have a good DDSalamence counter for 5th gen metagame).
Assuming this Pre-evo stone does work as suggested and also works for P2, this also helps his role as a Trick Room supporter quite a bit. He only gets bulkier now, and you might even be able to invest more EVs into his Sp Atk as a result. It's a shame that Analyze is based on who attacks last rather than the Pokemon's Speed stat...
Yeah- trace has definantly gone down in value. Intimidate users gained overconfidance, and sand throw/ sand power doesn't really help p2. However, it no longer needs the gimmick of trace thanks to the pre-evo stone, and analyze is probably the better ability now since p2 will often be slower.
Tbh i still prefer trace. Bulky gyara will still use intimidate and a believe Mence has to use intimidate if it wants Outrage (correct me if i'm wrong). P2 might not need trace as much as it use to as now it's is genuinely really bulky, but Trace just has such good utility
Note that users of Overconfidence REALLY appreciate Intimidate, however. Salamence and Gyarados have a much more difficult time switching into fighting attacks without it, and even pokemon like Warubiaru (good HP and passable defenses) will want it to switch into the likes of Stone Edge or Earthquake more easily.
Overconfidence is also somewhat gimmicky. DDMence was only sweeping once everything was sufficiently weakened as is, Overconfidence won't change that. The same revenge-killers are taking you out, so I would much rather get that chance to actually set up.
Pory2 will also absolutely shut down Water Absorbers (Suicune and Vappy), Flash Fire (Heatran), Volt Absorbers (Raikou and Jolteon), can actually threaten Shandera (who would otherwise simply set up on it), can effectively take on Swift Swimmers and Sand Throwers (once it has removed Doryuuzu or Gorebyss, it has its own boost to work with as well as high defenses), and much more. I wouldn't dismiss Trace so quickly just yet.
Swift swimmers and sand throwers would still probably outrun pory2 so that point is moot. Pretty much all the other pokemon you mentioned can be taken down by blissey (heatran's explosion got nerfed so I don't think it kos any more), so if you're already running blissey it's not that important (he faces them well with boosted defences anyway). Intimidate mons are the biggest benefit from trace.
Right now pory2 wishes he could run tri-attack/tbolt/ice beam/shadow ball/hp fight/toxic/twave/recover.
Shadow ball makes it much harder for shandera to set up on it and is good coverage if you're running hp fight, and hp fight is its strongest move against doryuuzu (50% stronger than ice beam), ttar, and heatran (which is good if not running trace), as well as some other pokemon.
Right now pory2 wishes he could run tri-attack/tbolt/ice beam/shadow ball/hp fight/toxic/twave/recover.
Shadow ball makes it much harder for shandera to set up on it and is good coverage if you're running hp fight, and hp fight is its strongest move against doryuuzu (50% stronger than ice beam), ttar, and heatran (which is good if not running trace), as well as some other pokemon.
Is Charge Beam viable instead of Thunderbolt? That way, Porygon2 can grow to be even better than its evolved counterpart from facing what it counters.
I found Suicune to do the countering job quite well, though you'll want to invest some into special defense in order to survive the initial hits.
I've been using no special defense EVs and it worked alright.
The problem is actually getting it in, do you'll want to predict it and/or u-turn out. So that's kind of a pain. But it's generally doable.
On the topic of Porygon-2, though.. Without STAB'ed high powered fighting attacks or toxic, you probably won't be breaking that thing.
It really is a beast, when I came up against it, I just couldn't do anything for forfeit because that thing just won't die.
Suicune can fight Shanderaa, but if it can't switch in, it can't be a counter.
TRACE. Keep it, believe me. Check it:
Porygon2 @ Evolution Stone
Nature: Bold
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 HP/ 96 Def/ 156 SpD/ 4 Spe
-Magic Coat
-Ice Beam
-Thunderbolt
-Recover
This is my anti-lead...it tears shit up. I know that seems so odd, but it alone has shut down teams magniificently. Max HP and balanced defences, except that SpD is one point higher, stopping Porygon-Z and Genosect from getting their Download boosts. Magic Coat is a giant middle finger to an abundance of leads. And that's not just because it's Magic Coat; people expect Pory2 to carry a status move, or TR, so it isn't uncommon to have Taunt thrown your way. Erufuun and Voltolos are no problem at all, AND you snag Mischievous Heart from them (priority Recover, woo!). Sableye is slower than Pory2 as well, so yay there. Oh, and Outrage from a +0 Ononokusu (yeah, I've seen it) 3HKOs this duck, while it 2HKOs back with Ice Beam. Thunderbolt is useful against DrizzleToed (and Magic Coat sends back Hypnosis), Gyarados, Starmie, Vaporeon, and Suicune. And Trace is a must, since it allows you to ability scout, something that's extremely important these days. Oh, and Tracing Swift Swin/Sand Throw is far from useless; you won't be faster than whoever you Traced it from, but you do have a chance of outspeeding their teammates with it.
I don't care about its tiering; Porygon2 is definitely a force to be reckoned with, if used well. Lol a ton of people ragequit against me yesterday after losing their strategies and half their Pokemon to the duck alone.
Porygon2 @ Evolution Stone
Nature: Bold
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 HP/ 96 Def/ 156 SpD/ 4 Spe
-Magic Coat
-Ice Beam
-Thunderbolt
-Recover
This is my anti-lead...it tears shit up. I know that seems so odd, but it alone has shut down teams magniificently. Max HP and balanced defences, except that SpD is one point higher, stopping Porygon-Z and Genosect from getting their Download boosts. Magic Coat is a giant middle finger to an abundance of leads. And that's not just because it's Magic Coat; people expect Pory2 to carry a status move, or TR, so it isn't uncommon to have Taunt thrown your way. Erufuun and Voltolos are no problem at all, AND you snag Mischievous Heart from them (priority Recover, woo!). Sableye is slower than Pory2 as well, so yay there. Oh, and Outrage from a +0 Ononokusu (yeah, I've seen it) 3HKOs this duck, while it 2HKOs back with Ice Beam. Thunderbolt is useful against DrizzleToed (and Magic Coat sends back Hypnosis), Gyarados, Starmie, Vaporeon, and Suicune. And Trace is a must, since it allows you to ability scout, something that's extremely important these days. Oh, and Tracing Swift Swin/Sand Throw is far from useless; you won't be faster than whoever you Traced it from, but you do have a chance of outspeeding their teammates with it.
I don't care about its tiering; Porygon2 is definitely a force to be reckoned with, if used well. Lol a ton of people ragequit against me yesterday after losing their strategies and half their Pokemon to the duck alone.
That set makes me drool with giddiness
Been using that set for ages tbh. It works wonder (and the guy doesn't die :') )
Why is there no mention of a Trick Room set?
Porygon2 @ Pre Evolution Stone
EVs: 252 HP/40 Def/216 SpDef
Nature: Sassy (0 Spe IV)
Ability: Trace
~ Trick Room
~ Ice Beam
~ Magic Coat/Thunderbolt
~ Recover
Porygon2 was one of the best Trick Room Pokemon in Gen 4 and it got even better with the Pre Evolution Stone and the better Magic Coat. This set is meant to be a lead as you can easily set up Trick Room with Porygon2's amazing bulk. Magic Coat allows you to bounce back Taunt that would stop you from setting up as well as using your opponent's Stealth Rock against them. Ice Beam is for Dragon-types, as this Porygon2 can switch in on just about any Draco Meteor, and Recover is so you can keep setting up Trick Room.
The EVs give Porygon2 its last bonus point in SpDef with maximum HP and the rest in Def. I like running a Specially Defensive spread on Porygon2 because it can take things like Draco Meteor and Shaymin-S's Air Slash fairly easily and hit them with Ice Beam and Salamence will be Intimidated, anyway. Other Trick Room users like Slowbro and Dusclops make better physical walls for setting up Trick Room with Porygon2, as well.
Porygon2 @ Pre Evolution Stone
EVs: 252 HP/40 Def/216 SpDef
Nature: Sassy (0 Spe IV)
Ability: Trace
~ Trick Room
~ Ice Beam
~ Magic Coat/Thunderbolt
~ Recover
Porygon2 was one of the best Trick Room Pokemon in Gen 4 and it got even better with the Pre Evolution Stone and the better Magic Coat. This set is meant to be a lead as you can easily set up Trick Room with Porygon2's amazing bulk. Magic Coat allows you to bounce back Taunt that would stop you from setting up as well as using your opponent's Stealth Rock against them. Ice Beam is for Dragon-types, as this Porygon2 can switch in on just about any Draco Meteor, and Recover is so you can keep setting up Trick Room.
The EVs give Porygon2 its last bonus point in SpDef with maximum HP and the rest in Def. I like running a Specially Defensive spread on Porygon2 because it can take things like Draco Meteor and Shaymin-S's Air Slash fairly easily and hit them with Ice Beam and Salamence will be Intimidated, anyway. Other Trick Room users like Slowbro and Dusclops make better physical walls for setting up Trick Room with Porygon2, as well.
The question of the ages... What move is preferable for when Porygon2 is being used as a tank:
Thunderbolt, Discharge, or Charge Beam?
Thunderbolt, Discharge, or Charge Beam?
@TorchicBlaziken: I would say that that really depends on your team. I'd personally stay away from Charge Beam, simply because (unless you're running Pory2 as slightly offensive), the +n won't help much (you can still be forced out). Not to mention that you still have to flee from Roopushin, Machamp, and sometimes Breloom, since taking their Fighting moves is pure lunacy. Discharge will help spread paralysis around, but you may miss out on some important 2HKOs (or I suppose OHKOs as well).. if your team needs the paralysis support, then that's superior. Watch for Roopushin though, who would be willing to take the paralysis. Thunderbolt is power, which is why I run it, seeing as how with no SpA investment, it needs whatever power it can get. So it's ultimately up to you.
@DDRMaster: I'm not sure how useful it'll be with Ice Beam alone. Tri Attack may be more useful there, though Normal alone is...shaky. I'm not going to claim that my knowledge of the metagame, new or old, is extensive, but without Thunderbolt, Pory2 falls to Water Pokemon. But without Magic Coat, it isn't a lead. I'd probably forgo its lead position, and keep BoltBeam coverage. There are other slow Pokemon that can use Magic Coat, and I feel like they'd be more suited for it if Pory2's going to carry TR.
@Shiny Crobat: it's so amazing, seriously. Lol though I have to run from those with Knock Off, because it really wants its Stone.
@Master Morty: I literally have been fawning over it ever since I started using it lol.
@DDRMaster: I'm not sure how useful it'll be with Ice Beam alone. Tri Attack may be more useful there, though Normal alone is...shaky. I'm not going to claim that my knowledge of the metagame, new or old, is extensive, but without Thunderbolt, Pory2 falls to Water Pokemon. But without Magic Coat, it isn't a lead. I'd probably forgo its lead position, and keep BoltBeam coverage. There are other slow Pokemon that can use Magic Coat, and I feel like they'd be more suited for it if Pory2's going to carry TR.
@Shiny Crobat: it's so amazing, seriously. Lol though I have to run from those with Knock Off, because it really wants its Stone.
@Master Morty: I literally have been fawning over it ever since I started using it lol.