Ghost is entirely superior to Dark except for Normal-types, and they're all hit harder by Fighting anyway except for Normal/Psychic and the currently nonexistent Normal/Ghost.
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Mienshao
- Thread starter Not Scicky
- Start date
It doesn't even matter, as far as picking HP Ghost/Dark goes. Hi Jump Kick hits Toxicroak for 97 Base Power, factoring STAB and the resistance, so it's stronger than HP Ghost. Considering Kojondo has higher Attack than Special Attack, HJK turns out to be clearly the better option against Croak.
Unless you're doing something crazy like switching in Kojondo on Toxicroak while it uses Bulk Up, in which case HP Ghost might be stronger... But then Kojondo is getting its ass kicked by Croak either way.
Actually, taking into consideration you lose stat points with ghost, that makes dark better, since you don't really gain anything from ghost, but you do gain a point in each defense with dark.
I wonder how a fully special set would work out. It's faster than lucario and gets baton pass, even if it doesn't get nasty plot. Eh, it'll probably be better going mixed with cheer up.
it would be THE best scout if it was part bug type
U-Turn Regeneration Kojondo is pretty much "immune" to entry hazards too, as you'll heal the switch in damage by switching out. Oxymoron much?
The only problem with that is actually switching in. This thing is so frail I would be worried about switching it in on anything barring maybe a Metapod String Shot.
I run a reckless high jump kick LO set for a sucide lead. Kinda of funny when u hit something for that much damage.
I don't really get what you mean here, as Regeneration heals it as soon it switches out, therefore it is practically impossible for Kojondo to die to entry hazards.
I know! How awesome would it be if it got rid of its stealth rock resistance?! Awesome!
^The above was sarcasm.
Kojondo is at at 25% health. He switches out, which means he now gains 33% health and is at 58%. Now, on switching in, even 6 layers of spikes on the field won't KO him.
Ahhh, i see. He can never have less than 33% switching it, so no matter how low he was when he switched out, he would always have at least 33% while switching in and he cant get KOed by entry hazards at that point, even with three layers of spikes and SR, he would take about 32% putting him at around 1% minimum. then i guess the point has to be expanded to include switching into opponents attacks as well as entry hazard damage.
Technically speaking you can only put down three layers of spikes but I wonder how much damage six layers of spike do to a grounded Pokemon?
Edit: The lack of reliable Ghost or Dark moves is somewhat disappointing. The reliance on Stone Miss worries me a bit.
In the game he always has a bad attitude lol needs to be more adept!!
Oh! Yeah, I get it now too! He can never switch in with less than 34% health. I was thinking "He's not immune to entry hazards. Sure he can heal away the damage by switching out, but his health isn't always going to be above 25% Mienshao just became that much cooler. It's funny how the simplest things escape us sometimes.
He knows that, of course. The damage doubles for each layer you lay (heh) so:
1. 6.25
2. 12.5
3. 25
4. 50
5. 100
6. 200 You really need to float at this point...
Six layers of spikes + 2 layers of toxic spikes and stealth rock are up. Volcarona switches in and takes 256% damage factoring in the first turn of poison.
Holy shit.
EDIT: I just had a look, and of the fifteen pokemon that can have regeneration, Mienshao and Ho-oh are the only pokemon that do not take neutral damage from stealth rock. Ho-oh is the only one immune to spikes, but stealth rock kills it anyway. Neutral stealth rock damage and triple spikes = 37% damage. This means that, aside from magic guarders, Mienshao is the only pokemon that cannot be killed by entry hazards.
That's not how it works. This is the correct pattern:
1. 12.5%
2. 18.75%
3. 25%
If it were to continue, it would likely do so by adding 6.25% damage for each additional layer.
4. 31.25%
5. 37.5%
6. 43.75%
7. 50%
Derp, you're right Thor. I had it confused with SR damage. Coulda sworn one layer did 6.25% though...
So Volcarona takes 106% damage from full entry hazards. Still doesn't look good for him.
Are there any other 4x rock weak grounded pokes?
So Volcarona takes 106% damage from full entry hazards. Still doesn't look good for him.
Are there any other 4x rock weak grounded pokes?
With three layers of Spikes, two layers of Toxic Spikes, and Stealth Rock, it takes a total of 81% damage by the end of the first turn. It would take 106% from full entry hazards if you could go up to six layers of Spikes. But if you could, why stop there?
Any 4x rock weak grounded Pokemon would have to be Bug/Fire, Bug/Ice, or Ice/Fire. The latter two type combinations don't exist at present, so that only leaves Volcarona and its pre-evolution.
Either way, what all of this means is that Kojondo will always gain more HP from switching out than it will lose from switching back in, so yes, Regeneration completely protects it from Spikes and Stealth Rock. Toxic Spikes is another matter...
You use amoonguss to take care of toxic spikes. I do! ^_^
So how can mienshao take advantage of regeneration?
I like to use it as a lead. Jolly 252/252 attack and speed, focus sash, hi jump kick / stone edge / fake out / u-turn. He can take a hit with focus sash, then switch in at opportune times and wear stuff down with fake out or u-turn, which heals him.
No wonder he only has 65/60/60 defenses. His offensive stats and movepool + regeneration are fucking godly. The only pokemon that even comes close what he can do is infernape.
He makes a better scout than flygon IMO. Higher speed and attack, drain punch/HJK and u-turn, resistance to SR + regen is better than levitate...
Infernape, cobalon, terrakion, virizion, keldeo and meloetta are the only fighting types faster than him, and he has higher attack than all of them except terrakion and meloetta. 125/105 compared to 129/108 and 128/128. Step meloetta has to transform, so it can't pull off the u-turn scout deal like mienshao.
There are no pokemon that sit between 105 and 108 base speed. Infernape can pull off a scout set like mien, but not as well IMO. I think that this is it's main difference from blaziken.
Unlike infernape and terrakion, mienshao isn't weak to any priority moves. I'm not sure why I'm comparing mien and terra actually. Anyway:
Offensive stats: 125/95/105 and 129/72/108 (mien/terra)
Defensive stats: 65/60/60 and 91/90/90
Mien has u-turn, terra has rock polish. Mienshao is better suited to hit and run tactics, while terrakions higher defenses, sandstorm boost, SD + rock polish and STAB stone edge make it a better setup sweeper.
I'd say that he's better compared to landorus and flygon. Fighting/ground/dragon are all great STABs, They all have similar speed and attack (poor flygon) and have U-turn and SD for scouting and sweeping (wow, poor flygon again!)
Mien is kinda unique. He's pretty interesting to compare to other gen V pokes, as most of the powerful attackers have decent defensive stats too. When I first started to use mienshao, I knew about his base 105 speed, I had noticed his low defenses, but I didn't know about his base 125 attack. Considering his ability + movepool and past stat trends I assumed he'd have base 100ish attack and 55ish special attack kinda like ambipom. I was really shocked to see how high his stats were.
EDIT: Wow, random mess of thoughts. Sorry guys, heh.
Taking advantage of regeneration: Someone mentioned a subpass set in the creative moveset thread I think. Even with SR up, he can set up a sub and baton pass it to something without losing any health. Give him taunt and drain punch to aid the pass. He'd actually make a great offensive addition to a stall team. He's fast enough to be a somewhat universal revenge killer (fake out for priority) and kinda has his own built in wish support :P
Or how about a choice bander with drain punch?
So how can mienshao take advantage of regeneration?
I like to use it as a lead. Jolly 252/252 attack and speed, focus sash, hi jump kick / stone edge / fake out / u-turn. He can take a hit with focus sash, then switch in at opportune times and wear stuff down with fake out or u-turn, which heals him.
No wonder he only has 65/60/60 defenses. His offensive stats and movepool + regeneration are fucking godly. The only pokemon that even comes close what he can do is infernape.
He makes a better scout than flygon IMO. Higher speed and attack, drain punch/HJK and u-turn, resistance to SR + regen is better than levitate...
Infernape, cobalon, terrakion, virizion, keldeo and meloetta are the only fighting types faster than him, and he has higher attack than all of them except terrakion and meloetta. 125/105 compared to 129/108 and 128/128. Step meloetta has to transform, so it can't pull off the u-turn scout deal like mienshao.
There are no pokemon that sit between 105 and 108 base speed. Infernape can pull off a scout set like mien, but not as well IMO. I think that this is it's main difference from blaziken.
Unlike infernape and terrakion, mienshao isn't weak to any priority moves. I'm not sure why I'm comparing mien and terra actually. Anyway:
Offensive stats: 125/95/105 and 129/72/108 (mien/terra)
Defensive stats: 65/60/60 and 91/90/90
Mien has u-turn, terra has rock polish. Mienshao is better suited to hit and run tactics, while terrakions higher defenses, sandstorm boost, SD + rock polish and STAB stone edge make it a better setup sweeper.
I'd say that he's better compared to landorus and flygon. Fighting/ground/dragon are all great STABs, They all have similar speed and attack (poor flygon) and have U-turn and SD for scouting and sweeping (wow, poor flygon again!)
Mien is kinda unique. He's pretty interesting to compare to other gen V pokes, as most of the powerful attackers have decent defensive stats too. When I first started to use mienshao, I knew about his base 105 speed, I had noticed his low defenses, but I didn't know about his base 125 attack. Considering his ability + movepool and past stat trends I assumed he'd have base 100ish attack and 55ish special attack kinda like ambipom. I was really shocked to see how high his stats were.
EDIT: Wow, random mess of thoughts. Sorry guys, heh.
Taking advantage of regeneration: Someone mentioned a subpass set in the creative moveset thread I think. Even with SR up, he can set up a sub and baton pass it to something without losing any health. Give him taunt and drain punch to aid the pass. He'd actually make a great offensive addition to a stall team. He's fast enough to be a somewhat universal revenge killer (fake out for priority) and kinda has his own built in wish support :P
Or how about a choice bander with drain punch?
Volcarona would have 6.25% health left if it switched into 3 layers of spikes, SR and 1 layer of Tspikes and hail or sandstorm was running.
With only one layer of T-Spikes you would do 87,5% + theoretical SS and Hail damage Urugamosu would even take 93,75% just from switching in mid turn at this point even Chanseys Pound seems threatening^^
Edit:Ninja'ed
