I'm just wondering, where in the world are you supposed to level up Petlil in the first place? The gym that comes after is the bug one isn't it?
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In-Game Tier List Discussion
- Thread starter Colonel M
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Battle Company? Route 4? EXP Share?
1) There are a couple Dwebbles in that Gym
2) You are more than capable of training against stuff other than Gyms, y'know.
I was referring to Petilils sp[eed which makes it impossible to wild poke train as it cant run from anything. And I most certainly have used it before, Ive finished 3 runthorughs and am Scrambling a 4th atm and I was commenting from experience. Your last comment may be accurate but then that stems directly from other comments saying how good it is--people want to see this thing that everyone says is so amazing and find that in most situations it is useless.
Drilbur is far and away the better ground type; Sandile doesn't even begin to compare to Drilbur until level 40, and even then it's still worse due to having lower attack, worse typing, and worse moves Excadrill gets Earthquake at level 36; Krookodile doesn't learn the same STAB until level 54.
On topic of Leavanny: I still think it's better than Lily. You get them both at the EXACT same point of the game, the only way Lily can really even be good is if you play Black, but Leavanny is useful regardless if you play black or white. Once you get Sewaddle, it'll be doing much better than Lily in pinwheel forest. You can train Sewaddle with all those Cotton's/Lily's in the forest, and it rapes team plasma grunts wit no problem. Not to mention it beats 2 out of 3 of the monkeys, where lily only beats Panpour. Once you leave Pinwheel, you should have a Swadloon by now, and Swadloon hits quite hard, and is pretty bulky. You can train it in the battle company, those fisherman in the desert, and the Parasol Lady in the desert, and also 2 of the 3 dancers in Castelia City. It also can do a Sandile grind (tho i dont get why people like grinding with Sandiles so much), and it gets a boat load of exp. from Burghs Leavanny. After all this, if you were Potion spamming, and gave it a massage, it WILL be evolved. Now you gots a Pokemon with a 105 base atk, and two decent STABS. Now, you can stop training it for a while till you get to the 5th gym, which it destroys, and once you leave the gym, You might be at the level where you get X-Scissor, if not, you can wait till after chargestone for it. Then, just 6 more levels to go and you get the awesome Leaf Blade. You get many more oppurtinities to grind it since it's typign screw team plasma grunts.
So, as you can see, using Razor Leaf and Bug Bite is no problem for Leavanny.
So, as you can see, using Razor Leaf and Bug Bite is no problem for Leavanny.
Thanks! And thanks Vladimir & Spweasel!
Well, can't argue with it being 3 > 0. Nobody seems to be arguing in Sandile's favor, so Drilbur it is. I actually think that I will catch him early if it will be worth it a little bit later.
@Vladimir I will have access to Conkeldurr, so is there still any reason to have a Scraggy on my team? Conkeldurr seems to be the best fighting type in the game, but I'm wondering if Scraggy will still have any other uses.
I'm sorry to have gotten you guys "Liligant" discussion off topic though. Imo, it seems to be the best "in game" special grass type, while Leavanny is the best physical one, nomatter what tier they wind up in.
Scrafty is possibly the best Pokemon in-game against the Elite 4 and beyond simply by having an almost perfect typing, great defenses, and Moxie. Marshal's really the only holdout, since Scrafty can either just crush or set up (with X-Speed) and then crush any of the other 5 trainers.
I stand by my assessment that Marshal is the single hardest encounter in the game, since everything has amazing coverage and you aren't really given a chance to set up. Even worse, most of the best counters for Marshal are extremely bad Pokemon otherwise - Confagrigus, for example, would have an easy win against him, but Yamask is just lame for most of the game. Even otherwise amazing counters like Jellicent or Golurk won't like getting hit by Grass Knot (200-240 Power attacks sting even coming off of 30-55 SpA).
I stand by my assessment that Marshal is the single hardest encounter in the game, since everything has amazing coverage and you aren't really given a chance to set up. Even worse, most of the best counters for Marshal are extremely bad Pokemon otherwise - Confagrigus, for example, would have an easy win against him, but Yamask is just lame for most of the game. Even otherwise amazing counters like Jellicent or Golurk won't like getting hit by Grass Knot (200-240 Power attacks sting even coming off of 30-55 SpA).
They would hurt if they actually used them.
I've tested a Golurk against Marshal before. The only thing that poses any threat at all is Throh's Payback. Everything else just spams Stone Edge, ignoring Grass Knot.
So Scrafty is that good then? Even for the entire game? Well, I'll probably run both Conkeldurr and Scrafty in my next playthrough.
For Marshal, I've got Archen planned, *I've learned my lesson against his Sawk before so Archen is for the rest* And Serperior's and Conkeldurr's bulk should help greatly. (Snivy as my starter is out of preferance & free panpour)
@Sigilyph is probably redundant with Archen right? I already know Archen's success and God tier power first hand, but I don't know much about the nasca bird.
For Marshal, I've got Archen planned, *I've learned my lesson against his Sawk before so Archen is for the rest* And Serperior's and Conkeldurr's bulk should help greatly. (Snivy as my starter is out of preferance & free panpour)
@Sigilyph is probably redundant with Archen right? I already know Archen's success and God tier power first hand, but I don't know much about the nasca bird.
Scraggy is solid for the entire game. He gets Brick Break and Hi Jump Kick very early, and if you throw the Evolite on him, he goes from being defensively strong to being a ridiculous wall (to the point where even SE attacks aren't much of a threat). If you don't want to waste the Evolite on him, he wears the BlackGlasses and Expert Belt pretty well, too.
His biggest drawbacks are that he's slow to learn any especially good Dark attacks (you are stuck with a choice between Payback and Faint Attack until level 38), and that he's a little on the slow side (but not slow enough to guarantee Payback).
While Sigilyph might be mostly redundant, if you want to try it out don't feel too bad about boxing Archen. Keeping the game interesting is more important than having the optimal in-game party, especially when Sigilyph can hold its own.
His biggest drawbacks are that he's slow to learn any especially good Dark attacks (you are stuck with a choice between Payback and Faint Attack until level 38), and that he's a little on the slow side (but not slow enough to guarantee Payback).
While Sigilyph might be mostly redundant, if you want to try it out don't feel too bad about boxing Archen. Keeping the game interesting is more important than having the optimal in-game party, especially when Sigilyph can hold its own.
Speaking of Sigilyph, i vote it for Upper Mid. Being a Psychic type means it is screwed by the many Dark Types in game, and when you get it, it is stuck with Psybeam and Air Cutter. I got lots more reasons why, but dont feel like posting em
Alright, thanks! : )
I think what I'm going to do is have a rotating team with different types this time around. Between, Snivy/Panpour/Drilbur/Timbur/Durama/Scraggy/Sigilyph/Archen
I haven't really used any really high teir pokemon before aside from Archen, so this ought to be interesting.
@On the topic of tiering Whenever the tiers get updated, I believe that Panpour also deserves high tier. I just think that Scald in game is simply crazy, especially when Panpour gets it and evolves right around the same time. (L.22 in Castelia City should not be hard at all) Perhaps at least high tier for us Snivy users.
@Cicada Upper mid is as low as it probably should go though. I've had no experiance with it, but it gets ALOT of praise. It doesn't seem to be outclassed by Archen as much as Pidove/Ducklett are.
I think what I'm going to do is have a rotating team with different types this time around. Between, Snivy/Panpour/Drilbur/Timbur/Durama/Scraggy/Sigilyph/Archen
I haven't really used any really high teir pokemon before aside from Archen, so this ought to be interesting.
@On the topic of tiering Whenever the tiers get updated, I believe that Panpour also deserves high tier. I just think that Scald in game is simply crazy, especially when Panpour gets it and evolves right around the same time. (L.22 in Castelia City should not be hard at all) Perhaps at least high tier for us Snivy users.
@Cicada Upper mid is as low as it probably should go though. I've had no experiance with it, but it gets ALOT of praise. It doesn't seem to be outclassed by Archen as much as Pidove/Ducklett are.
Yeah-I personally agree. There are multiple good in-game fliers, its inability to deal with Steels or Darks (other than Scraggy) is painful when they appear, and I found that if you go into the E4 underlevelled, it has a tendency to just barely fail to OHKO things it should, and get OHKO'd in return. (I.e. the AI just uses their Full Restore of doom.) That's not to say it's really normal mid-tier material; it lasts more than long enough until Air Slash, and Psybeam's 65 base power with STAB isn't totally unviable for the guy. It can use makeshift Air Cutter+Scope Lens for the Critscope trick (granted it's not nearly as good at it as Pidove, but it has higher offenses off the bat to work with,) and Magic Guard means that random status hax isn't nearly as bad an issue for Siggy as for other mons. It's good when you get it, and it can easily catch up to your team when you get it, but it slows down too much near the end for me to honestly consider it a full member of the High tier.
If the only 3 tiers were High, Middle, Low, I would still be supporting Joltik and Petilil for High; however, since the idea of splitting the tiers up further has been brought up again, I think they should be Upper-mid because of the fact that they are merely great while the rest of High is terrific. Try paying closer attention.
The fact that people are discussing those two Pokemon means that they deserve to be discussed. Get over it and stop throwing hissy fits just because you're not completely getting your way.
Also, in case you haven't noticed, pretty much all Pokemon have been discussed at some point. This thread is 88 pages long and has been around since September.
Any thoughts on reuniclus, chandelure, and haxorus? I think i'll try them on my next playthrough, but why are they generally disregarded? Do they really come that late? I think reuniclus, when the time comes, should be at least mid because in the beginning (as solosis) he actually has high special attack and in my first run killed my throh.
Haxorus really is mid/lower mid, due to requiring a detour and not matching up well against the last 2 gyms. If you're willing to baby him up from an Axew at Mistralton, the Fraxure can get you a good distance. Realize that Haxorus comes LATE-if you're underlevelled, you might not see him for the main story playthrough at all. (Coming into the E4 at level 44, my Fraxure evolved RIGHT. FREAKING. AFTER. GHETSIS.) Not that Fraxure is entirely useless-you're babying him against the E4, who can hit him hard through the Eviolite, and with Dragon Dance he can even sweep a *couple* members of Ghetsis' team. Heck, with Dragon Dance and the relatively uncontested Eviolite he can get a pretty wide variety of sweeps in, although he falters against the bosses and the only mons he can really attack safely in the gyms are Deino. I would still use him if you don't plan on using other late-game Pokemon, since the Eviolite was a major reason I actually managed to sweep with the thing.
Litwick requires babying in the tower you find it in, but at Mistralton Cave you can find a Dusk Stone that will let you instantly evolve it from a Lampent to Chandelure. Since Lampent actually isn't missing out on much from an instantaneous evolution (Shadow Ball comes as a TM in Relic Castle,) this is a major advantage, letting it cut its middle stage almost entirely and go straight to "own everything in my path." That's according to this thread.
As for Solosis, keep in mind that he's frail and slow. He is a glass cannon at its most obvious-its evolutions simply balance it into a tank.
The tier lists gauge effectiveness versus effort at completing the main storyline. Archen requires fairly minimal effort and gives maximum effectiveness.
You don't have to follow them-I've been considering using Larvesta for a second version despite all its many negatives (bad leveup movepool, limited TMs, bad stats, and inability to efficiently evolve even AFTER Ghetsis), and several mons simply require EXP share/Lucky Egg babying to get good-but they certainly are helpful for determining how well your mons will fight through the in-game.
Much like Scrafty, Krookodile absolutely wrecks the elite 4. Once you get a few moxies under you're belt you're laughing at everyone bar Marshal. Krookodile also gets plenty of dragon moves just to make sure you're hitting everything neutral. I haven't used Excadrill, but Krookodile is seriously awesome in game.
Sandile and Krokorok suck, though. They have shitty defenses and the effort to get to a Krookodile isn't even worth it when Excadrill has Swords Dance and a typing that lets it set up.
Damn, your right, reuniclus probably isn't efficient.
Thats probably why people were recommending having it carry an evolite a few pages back. If you want to 'mitigate' the defensive problem.
I'm still going with Drilbur, its had so many good things said and hardly any negative feedback whatsoever save for the intial training phase.
Drilbur will probably start looking good for me right around route 4/Castella City I predict, right about the exact same time you run into Sandile.
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