In-Game Tier List Discussion

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The Sandile line is awesome - i used them more often than Drilbur, because they aren't as broken, which makes them ultimately more fun to use. They're fast, powerful, and immensely useful against the E4 - their defenses are arguably not the best around, but if you get a Sandile with Intimidate, you'll be surprised by how well it can take physical hits. Moxie is stupid, seeing as the only time it's more useful than Intimidate is the E4, and Krokorok can ohko evrything Caitlin has regardless. They also perform amazingly post-game with all the Psychic-types.

Btw, Gollett @Eviolite sweeps through Marshall 10 times out of 10. Iron Defense + Curse is a foolproof plan, seeing as the only attack that can hurt you is Throh's Payback. Everything else doesn't 2HKO, even if it crits.
 
Leavanny:

Pros
-High Attack
-Gets Swords Dance
-Has excellent STAB early on
-Has Bug STAB(now screw off Lilligant fanboys, this is Leavanny ftw)
-Swarm X-Scissor...?
-ScopeShadowBlade(some gay crap I invented, Scope Lens+Shadow Claw+Leaf Blade)

Cons
-Evolve by LV 29 just for Slash, seriously. Without Slash, Leavanny seems somewhat lame.
-If you want GrassWhistle have fun dragging Swadloon all the way to Mistralton :P
-Lame typing
-Lame defenses
-Chlorophyll is very useless, Leaf Guard is extremely stupid, hence both abilities troll you at some point
-Swords Dance. At LV 46. Granted, Haxorus learns it at 48, but Haxorus only needs DD. And speaking 'bout that, Agility is an egg move for Leavanny :P
 
Leavanny:

Pros
-High Attack
-Gets Swords Dance
-Has excellent STAB early on
-Has Bug STAB(now screw off Lilligant fanboys, this is Leavanny ftw)
-Swarm X-Scissor...?
-ScopeShadowBlade(some gay crap I invented, Scope Lens+Shadow Claw+Leaf Blade)

Cons
-Evolve by LV 29 just for Slash, seriously. Without Slash, Leavanny seems somewhat lame.
-If you want GrassWhistle have fun dragging Swadloon all the way to Mistralton :P
-Lame typing
-Lame defenses
-Chlorophyll is very useless, Leaf Guard is extremely stupid, hence both abilities troll you at some point
-Swords Dance. At LV 46. Granted, Haxorus learns it at 48, but Haxorus only needs DD. And speaking 'bout that, Agility is an egg move for Leavanny :P


You dont need Slash. Return is better. Grasswhistle is shit. Leavanny has awesome typing (bug/grass just so happens to screw over all plasma grunts, except the ones with Trubish).

Yeah, Slash, GrassWhistle, and cool typing aren't cons. It's only cons are, like you said, Lame defenses, cruddy abillties (tho plenty of in game Pokemon dont make use of their abillity), and late Swords Dance (you don't even need Swords Dance that much anyway).


Leavanny's cons sure are less than Lily's tho.
 
Yes, I am a Lilligant fanboy, but that's because she's very good. I'm a Snivy fanboy as well, but I'm not trying to put it in a higher tier because I agree that it's not that great in-game. Just because I'm a Lilligant fanboy doesn't mean that I don't like Leavanny, and I do like it a lot, which is why I supported it being in Upper-mid next to Lilligant. Also, it seems pretty hypocritical to complain about all the Lilligant discussion when I just checked back about 20 pages and saw some decent Leavanny discussion going on.
 
Thats probably why people were recommending having it carry an evolite a few pages back. If you want to 'mitigate' the defensive problem.

I'm still going with Drilbur, its had so many good things said and hardly any negative feedback whatsoever save for the intial training phase.

Drilbur will probably start looking good for me right around route 4/Castella City I predict, right about the exact same time you run into Sandile.
You can't use Eviolite to much success on a Pokemon with such low defenses. It multiplies defense stats by 1.5, so it doesn't help that they are so low in the first place. That also means you can't use Lucky Egg... that's just bad.
 
Yes, I am a Lilligant fanboy, but that's because she's very good. I'm a Snivy fanboy as well, but I'm not trying to put it in a higher tier because I agree that it's not that great in-game. Just because I'm a Lilligant fanboy doesn't mean that I don't like Leavanny, and I do like it a lot, which is why I supported it being in Upper-mid next to Lilligant. Also, it seems pretty hypocritical to complain about all the Lilligant discussion when I just checked back about 20 pages and saw some decent Leavanny discussion going on.
Nobody is complaining
 
Leavanny:

Pros
-High Attack
-Gets Swords Dance
-Has excellent STAB early on
-Has Bug STAB(now screw off Lilligant fanboys, this is Leavanny ftw)
-Swarm X-Scissor...?
-ScopeShadowBlade(some gay crap I invented, Scope Lens+Shadow Claw+Leaf Blade)

Cons
-Evolve by LV 29 just for Slash, seriously. Without Slash, Leavanny seems somewhat lame.
-If you want GrassWhistle have fun dragging Swadloon all the way to Mistralton :P
-Lame typing
-Lame defenses
-Chlorophyll is very useless, Leaf Guard is extremely stupid, hence both abilities troll you at some point
-Swords Dance. At LV 46. Granted, Haxorus learns it at 48, but Haxorus only needs DD. And speaking 'bout that, Agility is an egg move for Leavanny :P
I agree with the Pros, but the cons are a bit off. Here is what I would add:

Pros (everything you said +):
- Leaf Storm.
- Comes with great stabs: Razor Leaf and Bug Bite.

Cons:
- Terrible coverage. Totally walled by Steel types.
- Poor defenses.
- Weak to Rock. This is an issue considering the main Rock type of the game can't be OHKO'd thanks to Sturdy.

I'd say it is a Upper or Lower Mid Pokemon.
 

breh

強いだね
Cons:
- Terrible coverage. Totally walled by Steel types.
- Poor defenses.
- Weak to Rock. This is an issue considering the main Rock type of the game can't be OHKO'd thanks to Sturdy.

I'd say it is a Upper or Lower Mid Pokemon.
A) The only steel-types ingame are Bisharp (which can't really hurt you and is neutral to X-scissor) and Durant (which outspeeds anyway)
B) Its defences are fine IMO. Not amazing but they were never much of an issue.
C) so.... what exactly does that hurt? half near all of the ingame boldore seem to love to power gem me before they use rock slide, neither of which KOes. if you really have that much boldore trouble, don't lead with leavanny in caves.

EDIT:

And Flying, Fire, and Poison. His coverage options aren't good enough to kill things without a x2 boost.

It's even worse since the most common Fighting type also packs Rock attacks, so you better hope for a OHKO. Not to mention Flying, Bug, and, to a lesser extent, Poison are fairly common attacking types as well.

A)Leavanny is not walled by Poison, Fire, or Flying types. While I don't think a logical person would keep it in, what with its weaknesses to those types and all, Return or Shadow Claw hits them well enough.
B)Why the do you keep Leavanny in on Timburr in the first place?
 
Pros (everything you said +):
- Leaf Storm.
Not much of a pro, since you won't have it until extremely close to the end of the game (probably not pre-Ghetsis) unless you overlevel in some way.

- Comes with great stabs: Razor Leaf and Bug Bite.
Splitting hairs, but I'd call them decent STABs, not great ones.

Cons:
- Terrible coverage. Totally walled by Steel types.
And Flying, Fire, and Poison. His coverage options aren't good enough to kill things without a x2 boost.

- Weak to Rock. This is an issue considering the main Rock type of the game can't be OHKO'd thanks to Sturdy.
It's even worse since the most common Fighting type also packs Rock attacks, so you better hope for a OHKO. Not to mention Flying, Bug, and, to a lesser extent, Poison are fairly common attacking types as well.

I'd say it is a Upper or Lower Mid Pokemon.
I think Upper Mid is appropriate.
 
A) The only steel-types ingame are Bisharp (which can't really hurt you and is neutral to X-scissor) and Durant (which outspeeds anyway)
B) Its defences are fine IMO. Not amazing but they were never much of an issue.
C) so.... what exactly does that hurt? half near all of the ingame boldore seem to love to power gem me before they use rock slide, neither of which KOes. if you really have that much boldore trouble, don't lead with leavanny in caves.
Most of them pack Aerial Ace.
Not much of a pro, since you won't have it until extremely close to the end of the game (probably not pre-Ghetsis) unless you overlevel in some way.
Level 50. That's not really overleveled, and it's actually a pretty good attack against Marshal, considering most Fighting types have crappy Sp. Def.

Splitting hairs, but I'd call them decent STABs, not great ones.
At Pinwheel Forest, they're pretty great.

I think Upper Mid is appropriate.
Comments in negrito.
The Klink line and Ferroseed are there too, although Ferroseed is only in Chargestone.
Man, those Ferroseeds are so damn annoying. They completely walled some of my Pokemon in my last playthrough. Even neutral STAB hits don't get them some times.
 
Squid, actually, Fighting-types generally have higher SpDef than Defense (i.e. Heracross, Hitmon-trio, Machamp, Primeape, Gallade; not sure about 5th gen Pokes although I know Conkeldurr does have lower SpD than Def)
 

breh

強いだね
don't use it against marshall; don't use leaf storm either

that's just begging to be stone edged.

Anyway, as for Aerial Ace Bisharp, Grimsley always seems to bring it out last. By that time, you should have a swords dance and be able to OHKO with X-Scissor.
 
Unlike Lilligant, Leavanny should never be used against Marshal due to his extreme love of Stone Edge. All of his Pokemon save Conkeldurr have equal defenses, so Leaf Storm isn't going to be better than Leaf Blade on anything else due to Leavanny's low SpA (or at least low in comparison to his Atk).

Bug Bite and Razor Leaf are about par for the course at that point in the game. This is after Herdier will have Take Down, and shortly before Panpour gets Scald and the Dig TM becomes available. Bug Bite has the slight advantage of 2x damage on a fair portion of Burgh's gym, but it's not like any of those Sewaddles pose any semblance of a threat to your average Pokemon (except possibly Leavanny if we're being generous).
 
Heres the order i belive we should have for te grass types.


High: Sewadle
Upper Mid: Petilil, Pansage.
Low Mid: Ferroseed, Snivy, Virizion, Maractus
Low: Foongus
 
Munna should be at least Mid. Munna with eviolite can survive the odd super effective hit. If you can take it up to level 37, it gets Calm Mind and Psychic by then. Add Shadow Ball and Charge Beam and he will win you matches. He beat 4 of N's team for me. It shouldn't be low tier.
 
I was glancing over the tier list and saw that Pansear is low while the other monkeys are mid. Is he really that sucky compared to the rest? Never used any of the elemental monkeys in-game, but I do know that they have exact same base stats so I don't really understand what's the difference.
 
Is he really that sucky compared to the rest?
Yes. It has weaker STABs than the other two, a worse overall typing, and it needs to compete with the infinitely better Darumaka for Fire types. The only thing it has going for it is Yawn.

We've been over why Munna is low numerous times now - while he has a couple good spots in the game, for the rest of the game you're stuck leveling a painfully weak Pokemon with no good STABs.

Anyways, I'd like to say that after having actually used one, I've revised my opinion of Durant in-game. He's actually kinda lame. I never considered that that he wouldn't be able to take resisted Special hits, which really limits his usefulness against the Elite 4. Even worse, you need to power-level him to at least 45 to even have a chance of doing much of anything against even his best matchups.

Ultimately, I wouldn't tier it any higher than Lower Mid, and I'd lean towards Low for Durant.
 
I was glancing over the tier list and saw that Pansear is low while the other monkeys are mid. Is he really that sucky compared to the rest? Never used any of the elemental monkeys in-game, but I do know that they have exact same base stats so I don't really understand what's the difference.
The STAB attack that Pansear has is a whole world of difference, ya know.

Incinerate: 30 BP
Water Gun: 40 BP
Vine Whip: 35 BP

Pansear sucks, and Pansage is only good because he's actually a decent grass-type. There are so many fire-types in Unova, frankly it's not even funny. Pansear can't 2HKO Cilan's Pansage iirc. That shows how FAIL it is.(Panpour roflstomps Chili's Pansear, Cress' Panpour is barely 2HKO'd by Vine Whip...)

@thejoker98: PEMN, lol. Who are you ever grinding Munna up against, anyway? Level 37 is somewhere around Twist Mountain, you are joking if you are asking people to drag around an unevolved Pokemon that is ridiculously slow around. (the only exception is Scraggy, but it is just too damn good, since Payback does a fuckton)

beating 4 of N's team isn't good enough for Musharna when Haxorus can sweep all of Ghetsis, including Hydreigon. Musharna dies to Zoroark, last I checked.
 
I vote Venipede for low tier. That thing sucks bawls. It;s only stab is Poison Sting till some gridning, and its damn hard to grind a Venipede. Once it goes into a Whirlipede it's pretty decent in terms of bulk, but it fails to kill really anything with bug bite and Poison Tail. Even as a Scolipede it still sucks. It's frail as frail can be, Bug Bite and Poison tail are crap till you get Megahorn, and even Megahorn fails to kill stuff in 1 hit as much as you'd like, with something so frail.
 
I call bullcrap on the above two posts. There's no need to catch a pokemon as soon as it's available - Venipedes caught on Lostlorn Forest (which is early enough to be a team member) are at lvl 21 or so, ready to evolve. Whirlepede has great defense and decent attack, while Bug Bite/ Poison Tail are good STABs (it's ironic how Bug Bite is an advantage for Leavanny but a disadvantage for Venipede), and it just becomes THE beast at Mistralton, when it gets Megahorn. Although less useful in the E4, it has a niche of Batton Passing Iron Defense to its teammates to take on Bouffalant and other pokes better. Upper mid for sure.

Also make sure to catch a Durant with Hustle, which OHKOs all E4 pokes without grinding.
 
I call bullcrap on the above two posts. There's no need to catch a pokemon as soon as it's available - Venipedes caught on Lostlorn Forest (which is early enough to be a team member) are at lvl 21 or so, ready to evolve. Whirlepede has great defense and decent attack, while Bug Bite/ Poison Tail are good STABs (it's ironic how Bug Bite is an advantage for Leavanny but a disadvantage for Venipede), and it just becomes THE beast at Mistralton, when it gets Megahorn. Although less useful in the E4, it has a niche of Batton Passing Iron Defense to its teammates to take on Bouffalant and other pokes better. Upper mid for sure.

Also make sure to catch a Durant with Hustle, which OHKOs all E4 pokes without grinding.
I call bullcrap on this post. I did use Venipede, it sucks. It needs Poison Sting to do actual damage until Poison Tail.

Dude, what have you been SMOKING? Sewaddle has higher Attack than Venipede, and Megahorn is pretty much to counter his lame Attack. Bug/Poison may be defensively better than Bug/Grass, but Bug/Grass is superior offensively. It doesn't even get Swords Dance until post-E4. :|

Honestly, why BOTHER with training Scolipede just for that niche? It's a lot, a lot faster to just have Haxorus DD his way through the competition, and with Fraxure available in Victory Road, I don't see how hard can THAT get.

Besides, if we consider about Venipede in Lostlorn, there's also Swadloon. Who STILL has Bug Bite and Razor Leaf. Honestly, did you just pull this shit out of your ass without actually playing through the game itself? And Scolipede's niche isn't Baton Passing +2 Defense, it's to spam a extremely fast Toxic into the opponent's face.

p.s. Durant OHKOes EVERYTHING in E4? I call bullshit on that, plus Hustle sucks without Hone Claws. I dunno how is base-level Durant is able to KO threats like Chandelure, Sawk and Conkeldurr before dying a painful death of his own.
 
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