RU Threat List

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Here are some threats that might be good to add:

Offensive Threats:
Crawdaunt. It gets Dragon Dance, adaptability and dual stab that is only resisted by one type (It gets super power for that though). It's a bit hard to pull of a dragon dance or two without a focus sash though.

Medicham. This thing requires quite a bit of prediction since the best sets are if it has a choice band or a choice scarf. It can at least 2KO nearly the entire tier using either Hi-Jump kick, Zen Headbutt, or Ice Punch if it has a Choice Band. With a choice scarf of course it'll be faster but it'll miss out on quite a few 2KO's or OHKO's.

Defensive Threats:
Poliwrath. While this pokemon doesn't have the best defenses it has a pretty good typing that allows it to survive an attack from most shell smashers and phaze them with circle throw and it also resists bug type attacks. (Although most bug types carry electric or grass type moves) It's also a pretty good counter for Durant since it resists it's common attacks and again can phaze it.

These are just suggestions though.
I disagree with Crawdaunt, lots of things outspeed it even after a Dragon Dance, and personally I have never had trouble with them (although I do use Gastrodon, who is the perfect counter for it, so I am a little biased...)

Medicham I agree with

Poliwrath is good, but it's not amazing. Once you know the set its running, its not that hard to get around. More of a minor threat than a major one.


He pairs pretty well with Rain teams, in my opinion. Fast Rain Dance, has Hydration, has Spikes and Yawn for support, all sorts of fun stuff to play with. I'm surprised more people don't use him.
Hydration is pretty useless on it though. The only status it ever gets is para, but most people go for the flat-out kill than trying to cripple it.
 
Can't do that, because whenever I use said sets, I lose really badly and it's not a good battle. Only good battles should be done as warstories.
Do a battle against a really good player on PO and invite everyone to look at the battle.
 
I disagree with Crawdaunt, lots of things outspeed it even after a Dragon Dance, and personally I have never had trouble with them (although I do use Gastrodon, who is the perfect counter for it, so I am a little biased...)
Jolly Crawdaunt outspeeds base 105s after a single DD so it is fast enough to attempt a sweep after just one Dragon Dance.

Also I don't know how Gastrodon could possibly hope to check, never mind counter, Crawdaunt when a +1 Crunch with 0 Atk EVs and Jolly Nature does 55.9 - 66.2% to Bold 252 HP/252 Def Gastrodon; while Gastrodon with Modest 252 Sp.Atk cannot OHKO 0 HP/0 Sp.Def Crawdaunt with Earth Power even after Stealth Rock.

A more realistic scenario would be LO Max Attack Crawdaunt Crunch vs Calm 252 HP/4 Def/252 Sp.Def Gastrodon: 112.7 - 132.9%

Nothing needs to be said about Crawdaunt with any Attack or HP investment, even less about a Crawdaunt at +2. The only counter to Crawdaunt in the tier that I have faced is Poliwrath.
 
I think Krookodile definately deserves a mention. With a scarf and moxie, it becomes one of the most effective late game sweepers in the tier.
Ran a few calcs to see what it could outspeed, all which are assuming Krook is holding a scarf and that the other Poke is running max speed EVs with a +Speed nature.

Yanmega: Outspeeds before the boost, but what Speed Boost Yanmega doesn't use Protect to scout before it starts attacking?
Venomoth: Outspeeds even after +1, more than that you're screwed.
Primeape: If it's holding scarf you die.
Sceptile: Can outspeed before the Unburden boost.
Galvantula: Outspeeds non-scarf variants
Sharpedo: Same situation as Yanmega
Durant: Outspeeds, but I'm not sure on damage calcs to see who would come out on top.


That's just a sample of some of the faster threats in the tier. I feel Krook would only be viable for picking off weakened foes, but not for sweeping because something faster will always come in and force the switch after you get the Moxie boost.
 
@Xephyr
I understand that you are testing everything, and I really appreciate the effort involved in this list, but as any decent player knows some pokemon just don't work with their playstyle. Not saying you are a bad player or biased, just saying that as a single player it is impossible for you to have a complete knowledge to use every pokemon successfully. This is not bashing you or your playstyle at all. All that I am trying to say is that you don't need to be so mean about how you tell someone something sucks. On another note you could look at getting some extra opinions about Pokemon, maybe getting some people to help you test them and write about them. You don't need very many, maybe just 1 or 2 more, just enough people to give some different views on things and help to test the threats of the tier.

I am not saying you are doing a bad job, or that you aren't a good battler, quite the contrary I am suggesting that you are a good battler, but that your playstyle may not be suited for everything. Anyways I am not trying to bash you and I appreciate what you are doing, perhaps looking for some other competent battlers to help you test stuff would help to make this easier on you.

On another note has anyone else noticed the amazing coverage Bug/Rock gets in this tier? Rock Polish Armaldo seems like it would dominate. I would say Shell Smash Crustle, but it is just to slow to effectively run a sweeping set. A utility set seems interesting on it though, it being one of the few pokemon in the tier to get Spikes+SR.

Also Scyther is beast. Swords Dance/Aerial Ace/Quick Attack/U-turn(Bug Bite), is a really effective set. Add to that the fact that it can get an eviolite boost means that it can be deceptively hard to take down. Walled completely by Rhydon/Rhyperior and other rocks/steels though. But that is what U-Turn is for right?
 
@Xephyr
I would say Shell Smash Crustle, but it is just to slow to effectively run a sweeping set. A utility set seems interesting on it though, it being one of the few pokemon in the tier to get Spikes+SR.
I would have to disagree with you there.

A 4 hp/252 atk/252speed jolly crustle reaches a speed stat of 414 after a Shell Smash and his attack stat reaches around 578 after said shell smash. Thats pretty fast and pretty strong. Crustle also has STAB Rock Blast and X-Scissor, and as you said in your full post, bug+rock is amazing coverage for this tier.
 
Crustle is indeed great, in the same way Cloyster is - access to hazards with a crazy offensive option in the same moveset. Both its STABs can't be absorbed either. Problem is deciding whether you want that extra STAB or extra hazard alongside Shell Smash. And of course, a built in focus sash is not only great but gives you more item choice, in which case the two herbs are both nice.

But as said, investment of EVs means you'll forego defense for offense and vice versa, so unlike Cloyster you can't have both. For a hazards team lead, it's a nice suggestion, and won't be a sitting duck if something gets in its way.
 
I don't understand why everybody is complaining about Xephyr being cautious about what he puts on the list and what he doesn't. The list he already has going is pretty darn accurate and handy when team building, so everybody should stop complaining and agree to disagree.

Anywho, is Wargle a viable threat at all in this tier? I feel a Scarf set would be handy, but it suffers "I'm not fast enough" syndrome. It's a shame it's male only, it would have enjoyed Agility as an egg move.
 
That about feraligatr? Access to swords dance and dragon dance, good physical move pool, respectable attack, okay speed, priority in aqua jet, great typing and decent bulk. He is like a mini Gyarados.
 
Xephyr, how much time do you spend on a Pokemon when it comes to testing? Due to the number of Pokemon within this tier it seems like you're spending not enough time on some of them. You may need to enlist the help from other decent players to better analyze specific Pokemon and determine if they're truly great material or not. Asking for people who post moveset ideas/Pokemon to post logs of their battle with said Pokemon/moveset wouldn't be a bad idea as well.

BTW, Testing a Pokemon's true potential =/= winning matches. Note I'm saying this in general, not specific towards you Xephyr.
 
I think the problem is that this thread is being treated differently by different people.

I think this thread needs to be cleaned up, with suggestions for useful Pokemon needing to be backed up by logs or proper logical reasoning and experience. This will save time and effort on Xephyr's part. I would suggest Zephyr simply ignoring posts that do not follow these guidelines and update the OP with these rules accordingly.

As a follow up measure, a new thread should be created dedicated to discussion of movesets in RU. This thread is really catering to too much at the minute and it is getting out of hand. If enough people support this proposal then I think it should be implemented. I would be happy to start a thread entitled Creative RU Movesets or for somebody else to start one to take the burden off this thread.

Btw I appreciate this thread and it should used and maintained as a resource rather than a swamp of speculation/argument. My two cents.
 
Why are we pissing him off? He's doing great for making this thread.

And if you want some Pokemon in the first post, just make a post like his.
 
For all of you who don't believe that Emboar is a monster with a Scarf Set:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JGf5...&feature=feedu

He won this game for Dangerous36m! hell he took down a Wash Rotom, Scrafty, Mew and Latios with Emboar!

Well the point of me linking that video was to show that an Emboar can be used to pick off things the opponent has due to its powerful stab moves. The point was also to show that a great player could use Emboar effectively. It is well known on Youtube that Dangerous36m is a very good player.

The only reason I really use Emboar over something like Entei and Typhlosion is because of:
- his attack stat
- his Fire/Fighting stabs
- Favorite pokemon

Really the only viable Emboar set is Scarfed, and even then its not a sweeper. Its meant to pick off things. I realize that now. The only reason one would ever use it over something like a Scarfed Typhlosion or a Banded Entei in a competitive setting is because of his STAB Flare Blitz and STAB Superpower and possibly his 123 base attack stat.

I shouldn't have go on and on about useless sets like Flame Charge Emboar and what not but as many will agree, not just one person can prove a set useful or even a pokemon useful. It requires many people to test the set in many different situtations. Not everything works like it does on Paper in this crazy metagame.

I did honestly go on and on about lame sets like a little whiny brat and that was wrong of me. I just get so riled up about how limited some pokemon are in terms of usefulness.

I think the problem is that this thread is being treated differently by different people.

I think this thread needs to be cleaned up, with suggestions for useful Pokemon needing to be backed up by logs or proper logical reasoning and experience. This will save time and effort on Xephyr's part. I would suggest Zephyr simply ignoring posts that do not follow these guidelines and update the OP with these rules accordingly.

As a follow up measure, a new thread should be created dedicated to discussion of movesets in RU. This thread is really catering to too much at the minute and it is getting out of hand. If enough people support this proposal then I think it should be implemented. I would be happy to start a thread entitled Creative RU Movesets or for somebody else to start one to take the burden off this thread.

Btw I appreciate this thread and it should used and maintained as a resource rather than a swamp of speculation/argument. My two cents.
I completely agree and apologize for causing most of that pointless argument.
 
I'm just saying, the Emboar the guy used in that video was a choice bander, not a scarfer. With maximum investment and a boosting nature it has a base speed of 256 which can outrun quite a few pokemon. Without a band it can't OHKO or 2KO (Lol not like it wants to 2KO) certain pokemon.

While Emboar can be a heavy hitter it isn't really seen much, plus it's quite easy to counter (Low Defences, Low Speed, If it has a scarf it won't be able to do as much damage plus it's main attacks hinder Emboar. Flare Blitz does recoil damage while Superpower lowers attack and defence). Xephyr shouldn't just add everything that can do a lot of damage to your team or threaten your team, otherwise this list would be practically endless.
 
You know who I'm surprised that isn't on this list and aren't used more in the tier?

Ninjask and Smeargle, both who used to be OU last generation.

Ninjask baton passing speed boost maybe gimmicky with all the phazers and hazers in this tier but if done correctly, can put the opponent on the back foot, as it works the same way as last generation.

Smeargle can do alot of things in this tier as also has access to spore, although it's main niche is probably baton passing belly drum, if you can pull off a belly drum pass to say something like ENTEI with extreme speed, i doubt anything without a focus sash, red card or Quagsire or have the Sturdy ability would survive, with usable speed and access to adamant extreme speed from a +6 pass from smeargle this tier will have a hard time countering it, since it can't be burnt and paralyze won't affect extreme speed unless your unlucky where 1 out of 4 chance that you can't move.

You could probably pass to other physical pokemon with priority like Shapreon, or pokemon just just fast in general like Sceptile.

Smeargle can also batonpass other things like shift gear, quiver dance and shell smash, although obviously venemoth and Gorebyss do this better, heck even dusknoir culd probably scare a few things with +6 shadow sneak.

Since those pokemon are likely to rise to UU because some pokemon are being banned to either BL or Uber (eg Kyurem and Garchomp) or some pokemon are moving down because of the lack of sunlight :P (eg Charizard, Victrebell). There's a good chance Venemoth and Gorebyss will move to UU. Leaving the job to Smeargle in RU, obviously Huntail would replace Gorebyss smash passing in RU.
 
although it's main niche is probably baton passing belly drum, if you can pull off a belly drum pass to say something like ENTEI with extreme speed, i doubt anything without a focus sash, red card or Quagsire or have the Sturdy ability would survive.
Eviolite Rhydon and Rhyperior are very common, and they laugh off the hit with max HP and no def investment (or vice versa) if its not coming from CB Entei.
 
I think the OP is almost to the point where it shouldn't be editted anymore. A threat list does not equal a list of things that could be good, it's a list of things that are commonly used and should be prepared for. Sure, against the right opponent, something weird as hell like Klinklang could work well (just an example). but that doesn't mean it should be on this threat list.
 
I just can't wait until the new usage stats come out so we can officially get rid of Venomoth, Gorebyss, and Cresselia. Maybe even Yanmega too. I'm tired of those four poisoning this metagame.
 
I just can't wait until the new usage stats come out so we can officially get rid of Venomoth, Gorebyss, and Cresselia. Maybe even Yanmega too. I'm tired of those four poisoning this metagame.
I'm using 3 of those at the moment. :D

Seriously though, if those 4 left, the metagame would change VERY drastically! :o Although that's probably why we haven't started suspect testing quite yet. Things need to settle down for a couple of months.
 
I'm using 3 of those at the moment. :D

Seriously though, if those 4 left, the metagame would change VERY drastically! :o Although that's probably why we haven't started suspect testing quite yet. Things need to settle down for a couple of months.
It would indeed...I think everything would be a lot more balanced. Frankly I already think the metagame is decently balanced though.
 
The whole metagame right now revolves around countering Yanmega, Venomoth and Cresselia lol! I'd love to see a metagame without them but at the same time they will be missed :(

Also I agree that the current threatlist represents the current top and most common threats in the metagame and can be kept like this for the time being. Anybody looking for a quick line-up of things to look out for will do well if they look at that list so kudos to Xephyr and everybody who suggested stuff.
 
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