Rhydon has virtually the same Attack stat, and Eviolite provides more of a defensive boost than Solid Rock (1.5x defenses = 2/3 damage, which is better than 3/4 damage from Solid Rock). This is largely offset by Leftovers recovery, but Rhydon does tank a single hit slightly better, which can give it an advantage against a boosted Pokemon (since it can survive and KO in return with its still very high Attack stat, even if it's uninvested, along with insane coverage even if you forgo Stone Miss). But if you use Rhydon over Rhyperior, you should absolutely be using it with Wish support. If you're running a set with Sub, always use Rhyperior for Leftovers recovery, unless there's a specific attack you want your Sub to survive and Rhydon's Subs can take it while Rhyperior's can't.
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Rhydon with Eviolite
- Thread starter VictiniforVictory
- Start date
What about Flygon or Stone edge misses which happen to me at least three times a game? That is why I run double edge.
Not exactly since Rhyperior actually has the option to use items that boost the power of his attacks.
Ice Punch > Double Edge if you're looking to hit Flygon.
Recoil-less Double Edge seems attractive, but it's not worth it when you have better coverage moves. 99% of the time there is no reason to run Double Edge, so 99% of the time both abilities are just as useless. Let's stop the silly argument.
OK I've been playing with the damage calculator, looking at Lefties Adamant 160/0 Rhyperior. 4/252neutral Rhydon on SE hits Rhyperior takes less damage after Leftovers up until hits are doing about 75%, where Rhydon is taking about 69% from the same hit(4x and 2x). For neutral attacks, Rhydon is comes out ahead for any hit that does more than ~20% to Rhyperior. Similarly with resisted hits Rhydon is taking less damage far earlier. All of this is factoring in Leftovers at the end turn.
For 160/0 neutral Perior vs 0/252 +nature Don, Rhyperior fairs better up until about 40% where they start to equalize in damage taken on SE hits and ultimately Rhydon starts taking significantly less.
For special attacks, 0/252 Rhydon fairs better than 160/0 Rhyperior once Rhyperior is taking like 20% on SE hits and even sooner on resisted and neutral hits so basically all the time.
tl;dr: In general Rhyperior takes SE physical hits better while Rhydon fairs better against basically everything else.
For 160/0 neutral Perior vs 0/252 +nature Don, Rhyperior fairs better up until about 40% where they start to equalize in damage taken on SE hits and ultimately Rhydon starts taking significantly less.
For special attacks, 0/252 Rhydon fairs better than 160/0 Rhyperior once Rhyperior is taking like 20% on SE hits and even sooner on resisted and neutral hits so basically all the time.
tl;dr: In general Rhyperior takes SE physical hits better while Rhydon fairs better against basically everything else.
wow my first post sure did get alot of commotion being a noob is hard
I use Rhydon on trickroom teams, also a rock polish set isn't too bad. Rhydon's speed and typing really hurt it a lot. I try to find a place for it on my teams but the results are always underwhelming.
Rock/Ground just isn't a good defensive typing. Rhyperior has Solid Rock and poses more of an offensive threat than Rhydon, so there's no real point to using Rhydon in UU.
Rhyperior isnt too different in stats. All of periors stats except speed are 10 base points higher.
Plus, Rhydons more bulky with eviolite. Youve all seen blissey/chansey damage calculations. Rydons defenses are awesome. Also, Solid rock decreases super effective moves by 1/4, not too gamechanging, but respectable nonetheless.
I might add some calcs later, unless someone else does it for me.
Also, for the lightingrod vs rock head thing, does Rhydon not get Head Smash? unbelievable
Plus, Rhydons more bulky with eviolite. Youve all seen blissey/chansey damage calculations. Rydons defenses are awesome. Also, Solid rock decreases super effective moves by 1/4, not too gamechanging, but respectable nonetheless.
I might add some calcs later, unless someone else does it for me.
Also, for the lightingrod vs rock head thing, does Rhydon not get Head Smash? unbelievable
Yeah, Rhydon doesn't have Head Smash.
It's 200x better than Stone Miss :/
It's 200x better than Stone Miss :/
I guess if you really wanted to be gimmicky and Run a mixed set on Rhydon lightingrod might have some use. I mean Rhydon does have a special movepool most pokemon would kill for.
You do realize that Head Miss has the same accuracy, right? XD
Why on earth would you use 0 HP EV Rhydon? This has to be the third time I've posted to dispel this myth. You do not use 0 HP EV's on eviolite pokemon. Eviolite boosts your defenses by 50%. This means you will take 2/3 damage from attacks. This is always the case, no matter what EV spread you are using. The bulkiest spreads gain the same percentage boost as the stupid 0 HP spreads do, which means you are gaining nothing by using an inferior spread. The only time you should be investing in defenses before HP is if both stats are less than half you HP stat and you aren't looking to max either physical or special bulk by putting EVs in one defense stat and into HP. Rhydon's uninvested defense is 78% of its uninvested HP, so each point you put in defense is only getting you slightly more physical bulk than a point in HP. It's not enough to outweigh the advantage of HP EV's increasing bulk on both sides.
If you compare the two with a spread of 252 HP / 252 SpD Careful for each, you find that Rhydon takes much less from both neutral and super effective special attacks. As such, I can see a place for Rhydon in Sand Stream, where it shrug of pretty much any special hit that doesn't prey on one of its 4x weaknesses.
Still a no-recoil STAB Head Smash from Rhydon would kill.
Actually ZeroTarken is right in pumping up the Sp Def first.Scoopapa said:
X-Act's Optimal Defensive EV Spread
I checked the box 'Has Soul Dew' to mimic Sandstream and set both defense modifiers to +1 to account for Eviolite. The result is 252 EVs in Sp Def to be most efficient for an EV bias towards Special Defense > 71%. Even with equal bias between defense and special defense, it recommends 72 HP / 180 SDef, not max HP.
And this is with Careful nature (if it was Adamant - it would suggest more EVs into Special Defense).
EDIT: Oops, Rhyperior is still UU.
Rhydon without Eviolite is 100% outclassed by Rhyperior, so no, there's no reason to run any other item on Rhydon if you're going to use it in UU.
I was just running some numbers quick I wasn't concerned with what was optimal ._.
The thing is he didn't specify special or physical in his spread, so I couldn't really assume that he was just going for the most special bulk with 252 EVs. Seeing 0/252 and no specification of physical or special kind of made it look like he was talking about 0/252/252. I'll concede that 252 Atk and 252 SpD might have merits in Sand Storm, but I still think Rhyperior will outclass sets going for Attack EVs. I'd much rather get that insane bulk and abuse Dragon Tail and Sleep Talk if I'm gonna go for Rhydon over Rhyperior.
lmitchell0012
Wi-Fi Blacklisted
Nothing personal against rhydon here, but having a 4x weakness to water and grass (as well as it's other weaknesses) isn't something that is desired in ANY of the metagames. If you're looking for a wall, use porygon 2 instead. As if being immune to ghost wasn't good enough, being able to trace abilities that grant him immunities (levitate, volt absorb, motor drive, flash fire, etc) make him an absolute BEAST no matter what metagame you use him in.
P2 is still OU. ._.
Just gonna add my two cents.
You probably should not run Lightningrod in case of an opposing Pokémon with Trace. The last thing you want to do is raise the foe's Porygon-Z's Special Attack.
Make it Rock Head instead.
You probably should not run Lightningrod in case of an opposing Pokémon with Trace. The last thing you want to do is raise the foe's Porygon-Z's Special Attack.
Make it Rock Head instead.
uh, Rhydon doesn't have any electric attacks outside of Thunderpunch, so the entire point is moot.
It's really unlikely for any for the 2 UU-legal Trace Users (Porygon and Gardevoir) to be able to get a Lightning Rod boost, because the player with the Rhydon would probably have to forget about the Traced ability to use an electric move on it.
It can still be an issue because it could possibly force you to use weaker attacks.
i.e. Gardevoir comes in, kills your Rhydon, all you have left to revenge is a Raikou. Gardevoir used Trace so your Raikou can't use Tbolt, its most powerful attack. We're assuming Raikou is an event one and carries Aura Sphere over Shadow Ball.
In reality this has like a .000001 chance of ever happening (who the hell uses Gardevoir anyway) but it's still worth running Rock Head over Lightningrod because there is no way Gardevoir could ever make use of Rock Head. It's like how it's better to run Whirlwind over Roar on Skarmory just in case the opponent has something stupid and obscure like Soundproof Mr. Mime. Might as well not risk it.
i.e. Gardevoir comes in, kills your Rhydon, all you have left to revenge is a Raikou. Gardevoir used Trace so your Raikou can't use Tbolt, its most powerful attack. We're assuming Raikou is an event one and carries Aura Sphere over Shadow Ball.
In reality this has like a .000001 chance of ever happening (who the hell uses Gardevoir anyway) but it's still worth running Rock Head over Lightningrod because there is no way Gardevoir could ever make use of Rock Head. It's like how it's better to run Whirlwind over Roar on Skarmory just in case the opponent has something stupid and obscure like Soundproof Mr. Mime. Might as well not risk it.