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np: OU Suspect Testing Round 5 - Sandstorm (Excadrill/Thundurus Banned)
- Thread starter JabbaTheGriffin
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Yea, I've always used MS to set up DDs, since after that the only real thing that threatens you is priority (like every goddamn pokemon in the game).
I mean yea SR kind of screws that up (may need to roost once), but Dragonite is still a very threatening pokemon. I don't see how people keep saying that he's useless without MS; a pokemon nearly as bulky as swampert and as strong as Tyranitar with coverage only stopped by Heatran in two moves (Fire Punch/Dragon Claw) is no laughing matter.
That being said I've never really liked the mixed set; Salamence does that much better.
I mean yea SR kind of screws that up (may need to roost once), but Dragonite is still a very threatening pokemon. I don't see how people keep saying that he's useless without MS; a pokemon nearly as bulky as swampert and as strong as Tyranitar with coverage only stopped by Heatran in two moves (Fire Punch/Dragon Claw) is no laughing matter.
That being said I've never really liked the mixed set; Salamence does that much better.
Sounds good, but you can't control when your opponent breaks multiscale since you don't have Roost. Thundurus can come in without Multiscale activated, like it should.
Edit: Dragonite needs Speed EVs and Dragon Dance or Roost, without those I don't see it as being all that good.
He's mostly useless without MS, if you mean without the ability entirely. Without ms up he's a lot less threatening, because you can just revenge his ass.
Besides, swampert's bulk was mostly due to his typing, and immunity to SS. D-nite has neither, and since he's rarely used as a lead, he'll probably take 25% from SR too. Coverage is meaningless when i bust out a gliscor, SD up, and ice fang.
Besides, swampert's bulk was mostly due to his typing, and immunity to SS. D-nite has neither, and since he's rarely used as a lead, he'll probably take 25% from SR too. Coverage is meaningless when i bust out a gliscor, SD up, and ice fang.
This is why I love Haxorous, mold breaker > multiscale. Speaking of Haxorous, why doesn't anyone use Scarf Haxorous? It's seriously underrated. Even without choice band, it still hits like a truck with 432 attack and STAB outrage. It's a pretty good revenge killer because not many people expect it, and it can destroy things like Latios. People dont really have much room to make an error predicting what type of Haxorous set it's running, as CB just destroys everything, especially with the help of Magnezone killing steels. 1 mistake, and the DD set will destroy you. This makes the scarf set even more effective.
I use it. Its utility is shown in the warstory in my signature. It's a really effective check to most fast Pokemon because everyone expects Band or LumDD nowadays.
You should generally try backing that up with some common stuff that can revenge it, otherwise your post means shit.
Looking at the usage charts you can see that Ferrothorn, Tyranitar, Latios, Politoed, Thundurus, Rotom and Conkeldurr and incapable of revenging it without taking alot of damage. If you are at around 60%, even stuff like Gengar, Scizor, and Gliscor aren't safe.
EDIT: Whether nite has taken SR damage or not, Thundurus is still eating an extremespeed. Which generally stops it from sweeping.
Looking at the usage charts you can see that Ferrothorn, Tyranitar, Latios, Politoed, Thundurus, Rotom and Conkeldurr and incapable of revenging it without taking alot of damage. If you are at around 60%, even stuff like Gengar, Scizor, and Gliscor aren't safe.
EDIT: Whether nite has taken SR damage or not, Thundurus is still eating an extremespeed. Which generally stops it from sweeping.
If we're counting SR then Thundurus doesn't even need Life Orb to one shot Dragonite, some people (like me) don't run Life Orb on Thundurus since it's frail to begin with and SR weak.
It is with a thundurus and stealh rock
LO Excadrill, Terrakion, Mienshao, Tornadus HP Ice, Latios, Salamence, Haxorus, Hydreigon, need more?
And then easily revenge kill it. Which opens doors for walls, like blissey, to pass a wish back or stall out your team. And even then, you're completely set-up bait for arguably the best physical sweeper in the entire tier without Fire Blast, no thanks.
Exca needs adamant LO to revenge reliably has balloon only averages around 60% anyway with rock slide. If Dragonite KOd something, and then pretty much crippled a torndadus / thundurus / latios it has broken down a pretty big part of the other team and done its part and netted you an advantage. I wouldn't call that easily revenged killed. Again, it isn't a predictable set so it's likely to net you alot of KOs and e-speed damage if you play it right. I'm not arguing for it's invicibility, is it isn't meant to sweep. It's meant to punch holes in the other team.
You say that as if Adamant LO isn't popular on Excadrill. Besides, Dragonite netting a KO in Sand with Rocks up and LO recoil is not very easy since it can be stalled out and easily revenged. We know it can't sweep, but I generally like wallbreakers to not give Excadrill a free SD or die after E-Speeding one poke.
Play real opponents using that set and you'll see how much pressure it can put on you in the beginning of a match. >.>
I don't see the issue with MS LO mixnite. It's like the "perfect" (not exactly perfect, but really good) anti-lead in this game considering how slow it is with a quiet nature allowing it to abuse MS and that most opponents will need to break MS first to beat it. Tell me, what can tank a Draco Meteor, Fire Blast, and an Earthquake/Brick Break to OHKO back? Yeah, you can play around it, but not if the opponent can also play around you. ;)
Also, Lead mixnite isn't supposed to live long anyway. It just hammers away at whatever is in and then dies after getting a light hit in with Extremespeed. This is even better if they send in Latios or Thundurus since they're practically crippled by it. Anything slower can't outright OHKO Dragonite at ~80% health (well without getting KOed first). Hell, even Gliscor's uninvested Ice Fang is giving off a pitiful ~65% damage output for a 4x Super effective attack, and this is without any HP or Defense investment in Dragonite's part. This is without MS. With MS it can tank a Scarf/Expert Belt Hydreigon's Draco Meteor without HP investment to KO back (though Hydreigon has to be Timid with Expert Belt).
Also, Nkululeko, none of your revenge killers are KOing with Multiscale active outside of maybe banded Salamence and Specs Latios. If MS isn't activated then Dragonite has probably already done his job and killed something or severely crippled a key wall. Also, about half of those revenge killers are eating an Extremespeed that can shave off a healthy 50% before the kill.
I really like Eggbert's Rain MixNite set, since it provides a secondary STAB other than Draco Meteor to wank the opponent, which makes it less easier to stall it out. Replacing a boosted Aqua Tail for Super Power has some drawbacks but also helps in not getting forced out easily. Facing a Drought team would be a nightmare though, but that's where weather war comes into play.
Speaking of Dugtrio, another benefit of running Hippowdon is that your weather changer can't be trapped by him.
Also about Mienshao missing HJK, he really has it a lot better than any Fighting-type considering if you miss a HJK at full health, you're not completely screwed if you switch out
Also about Mienshao missing HJK, he really has it a lot better than any Fighting-type considering if you miss a HJK at full health, you're not completely screwed if you switch out
HJK should always be used on Mienshao, unless for some weird reason you're running a Calm Mind set. As Meru said, the missing isn't that big of a deal, as Regenerator will restore your hp regardless. It destroys so many things, it should definitely be used over Aura Sphere. I mean, as Vix stated, it 2hkoes Skarmory. You know something is bad ass when it can 2hko Skarmory with a physical fighting move, and also ohko Gliscor with the same set.
thats where wobbuffet comes in. traps, encores stealth rock, tickles, then dugtrio kills
With all of this dragonite nonsense being able to tank any hit and always get a DD, I'm probably going to put Haxorus on my team for a long while, I'm sick of losing a third of my team to that thing.
edit: HAH! Detailed Result:
MOLD BREAKER Adamant 255 Atk Haxorus Outrage vs Impish 255 HP/255 Def Dragonite: 91.71% - 108.03%
46.15% chance to OHKO
It's guaranteed if you are a DD variant. Suck on it dragonite!
edit: HAH! Detailed Result:
MOLD BREAKER Adamant 255 Atk Haxorus Outrage vs Impish 255 HP/255 Def Dragonite: 91.71% - 108.03%
46.15% chance to OHKO
It's guaranteed if you are a DD variant. Suck on it dragonite!
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