-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Smogon University PO Statistics — November 2011
- Thread starter Antar
- Start date
- Status
First of all, what would PU even stand for?
And also, man those are a lot of GOOD mons that are hardly used in NU. Flareon and Leafeon are complete bosses. Amoonguss can be a huge jerk. Rapidash, Muk, Cinccinno are all good physical attackers (even if the first two are walled by Rhydon). Etc. etc. I guess this shows that NU clearly isn't bottom-of-the-barrel at all.
Also from the NU 1337 (or 1200) stats:
| 32 | Flareon | 107 | 6.254% | 96 | 6.936% |
I guess that was mainly my undoing. ;D
Awesome special tank for sure, with WoW to boot. I love this thing.
Klinklang is good, and sadly shit like Magmortar is KOd after a bit of prior damage. Maybe you should try playing NU a bit before ragging on it? lol
A tier below NU... Baton Passing already looks incredibly prominent, what with Volbeat, Ninjask, Leafeon, etc.
... Someone hasn't played in the tier at all. In a metagame run by Sawk, Swellow, etc, and Klinklang beats them all after a Shift Gear (which is ridiculously easy to set up, even when you're against the best players), why the hell would it NOT be good? Play one game in NU, and you'll see it deserves that spot. And about Magmortar:
+1 Adamant max Attack Klinklang vs 24 HP Magmortar: 71.04-83.84%
Can't switch in, dies with Rocks up almost 100% of the time. Magmortar's an awesome counter. That and most of the spinners in NU suck (except for Armaldo, more people should use it) and almost no one carries them.
Neglected fire and electric types? Why mention a counter (and btw, no Fire type can take two attacks from Klinklang except for Torkoal iirc) if no one uses them?
EDIT:
| 40 | Snover | 818 | 4.518% | 784 | 5.086% |
| 46 | Glaceon | 766 | 4.231% | 594 | 3.854% |
| 76 | Walrein | 452 | 2.496% | 356 | 2.310% |
You can't explain this.
Scizor is back...
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
wombat: I should be able to do that
I remember early this generation, I thinking about that. Like with 4 usage tiers, and perhaps ~50 Pokemon per tier, I was thinking that we're not really going to be very "far down the barrell" by the time we got to NU.
I did suggest making the cut-off for each tier a little bit lower, so we'd get a larger proportion of the overall Pokemon viable in one of the main metagames (as we have it now, the tiers are small enough that we've got quite a few Pokemon viable in multiple metagames (e.g. the Water/Grounds, Gorebyss, Magneton, etc.), which isn't a bad thing, especially if you're a fan of one of those Pokemon), but it's a tricky one. I think it would've been a good idea to do that, but on the other hand, we do get other people complaining that the tiers are too large. Another option would be doing more than 4 usage tiers, but is there enough demand for a 5th metagame? And would it be too much work?
It's not exactly a big problem though, but maybe something we should bear in mind when Generation VI comes around and we have even more Pokemon.
Anyway, about the stats, Chansey continues to climb in OU, and Blissey continues to fall. I'm interested to see if this continues until Chansey overtakes Blissey, or if they stable out at some point, or the metagame shifts so that Chansey peaks and falls back down, with Blissey increasing back up again.
I'd love that too ;_; but looks like Meinshao and Virizion have a higher chance of dropping. Sure he's been at the same place for the past stats but its still pretty solid OU at 4% :(. On that note Meinshao and Virizion will be interesting drops for UU D:
Scrafty is viable in OU, but it has trouble setting up with Fighting-type moves running around. One of the biggest problems I find with Dragon Dance Scrafty is that you either have to pick between the weak Drain Punch or the reckless Hi Jump Kick. So yeah, bring this gangster lizard down.
On another note, Virizion is pretty good, with its high Special Defense and ways of boosting its otherwise mediocre offenses in Calm Mind and Swords Dance (and the new Work Up). Too bad it's heading for UU, but it will show off its unique abilities there. :) Hehehe I only used Calm Mind Virizion
On another note, Virizion is pretty good, with its high Special Defense and ways of boosting its otherwise mediocre offenses in Calm Mind and Swords Dance (and the new Work Up). Too bad it's heading for UU, but it will show off its unique abilities there. :) Hehehe I only used Calm Mind Virizion
Someone got to #1 on the ladder using a Magneton apparently, which might've popularized it a bit.
As a Portuguese speaker, I wholeheartedly agree with this if only for the tier name.
But there's no reason to set up yet another usage tier right now. We should focus on expanding the RU and NU userbases first.
But they're *not* completely unviable. As many people (including myself) have pointed out, some of these pokes fare very well in higher tiers.
Probably true. But if it's ever "broken" in a tier, its usage will either rise up to where it's not a candidate for a lower tier, or it'll fall into a BL. And if it's not "broken" in any tier, I see no problem with letting it play in that tier
Say it out loud. The way that people avoid using them, you'd think they must stink.
That's my point. I would really like to see a system of metagames where every (non-NFE, at least) pokemon was viable *somewhere*.
The reasoning for the cutoff is as follows: a pokemon is OU if, in 20 standard matches, there is greater than a 50% chance that it appeared in at least one battle. Twenty is an arbitrary number, but the idea is that, if it is unlikely that you'll see a pokemon in one of 20 battles, it's probably not necessary to think about having a counter to it. Lowering the cutoff would make the metagames *harder*, in the sense that one would be expected to be able to deal with a larger and more diverse range of threats. I'm personally against it.
RU and NU actually have decent sized player bases already. There were slightly more RU matches last month than Ubers battles, and NU wasn't that far behind.
In spite of all my responses above, my original post was basically just an idle thought. I personally think that there's no reason to wait for the upper metagames "stabilize" (NU will have been out for three months once January rolls around, how long does it take for a metagame to "stabilize?") before we introduce additional ones--the chaos is part of the fun, IMO. I'm not suggesting new Smogon councils--PU would be an "unofficial" metagame like NU is now and RU was five months ago.
But hey, that's just my opinion, and if I'm in the minority, I see no reason to force a new metagame on anyone.
I am seeing a metagame being particularly dominated by Rain more and more.
People prefer banning everything to do with Sand and Sun and want Rain, the most powerful weather by far, the weather that NEEDS the most competition to stay in check, dominant?
This is a strange shift from when we were discussing the DrizzleSS ban. Huh.
People prefer banning everything to do with Sand and Sun and want Rain, the most powerful weather by far, the weather that NEEDS the most competition to stay in check, dominant?
This is a strange shift from when we were discussing the DrizzleSS ban. Huh.
? Sawk has no problem crushing Klingklang with its stab before a boost, and your point is irrelevant after a boost (it kills something that has less than stellar defenses after a boost, awesome!) Any good player Swellow player will run Magneton so its a moot point. Magmortar at best is a check, "sorry" but its fucking sad that it can't even OHKO after a boost without SR. Like, I just can't picture this thing reliably setting up... ever. Like in Swellow's case, even without magneton, it has no problem just using u-turn and switching to the dozens of Pokemon who resist its main STAB + can take a +1 Return from a Pokemon with base 100 attack.
My point was that if way more people seriously played NU, you Klinklang wouldn't even be used because its absolutely terrible, even in the lowest of all tiers(Its main STAB is steel + best coverage move is return. That right there sums it up for me.)
But you're right, I don't play NU so I guess i'm better off leaving the tier to the experts.
Woot Deoxy-s and Scizor back on top.
Also GO ALAKAZAM YOU CAN DO IT.
Lastly WTF Dugtrio WTF
Also GO ALAKAZAM YOU CAN DO IT.
Lastly WTF Dugtrio WTF
I don't see it how it makes metagame harder. Lowering the cutoff % doesn't mean people can't use random UU/RU/NU pokes in OU.
On the otherhand, lowering it would mean more things get sent up to the higher tiers. Small effect in UU, but it be bigger in RU and massive in NU (pretty much resulting in a "new" NU tier, considering its top 20 or 30 would move to RU).
Though I don't personally play RU or NU, so I don't know if thats good or bad.
...congrats, that was exactly my point. Ninjask provides a niche service, and since that service is less popular now due to the "threat" of stuff like Deoxys-S in OU, Whimsicott in UU etc, Ninjask has fallen below the cut-off in every tier. Even though it's a great Baton Passer. It's kind of like Quagsire; Unaware provides a niche service, but it's not enough to get Quagsire above the usage cutoff in any tier.
This is not wrong. But the justification for lowering the cutoff should *not* be just that there are more pokemon unless 5th gen OU is less "centralized" than 4th gen, and if THAT were true, there would be no need to lower the cutoff.
By ways of an analogy, top-tier colleges do not suddenly admit more students just because their applicant pool increases in size. Not the best analogy, but still.
Does that make sense?
I just updated the post with the new statistics, and 1337 stats should follow shortly.
- Status