Pokémon Kangaskhan

[McGrrr]

Subpunch snip

I dislike Substitute without any form of HP recovery, and MKanga doesn't even get Leftovers. I think this is specifically tailored to Rotom-Wash, right? Except you're still getting burned by Scarf variants. Return does more damage than Focus Punch to neutral targets, while Fire Punch hits Steel Types for just as much, and has a burn chance. Earthquake/PuP covers Heatran, so why is this superior to say... Return/Earthquake or PuP/Sucker Punch/Fire Punch? Sure, Substitute eases prediction, but it's not free, sacrifices a lot of bulk, and is an own goal against Rocky Helmet users. Unless you really want to screw with Trevenant, I'd use the many superior options available.

A couple of other points:

1. In your analysis, I think Jolly should really be the recommended nature. There are just too many things around the 300 speed benchmark that makes Adamant sub-optimal.
2. Knock Off was great when I tried it (mainly because of how uncommon Blissey/Chansey currently are), but I heard that Knock Off is actually illegal, so I'm back to running:

Kangaskhan (F) @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Early Bird
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Seismic Toss
- Crunch
- Sleep Talk
- Rest

No fancy EV spread either, because 100 base is such an important speed tier that maximum is really the best option. 4 SDef because I prefer Genesect/Porygons to receive an Attack boost. Seismic Toss hasn't caught on, but that's fine with me! This is the MVP of my 58-7 team.

 

[Shroomisaur]

...Sub Punch Kangaskhan

I first thought of SubPunch Kanga about a month ago, but when I tried it, I was horribly disappointed. Running Sub with no lefties really sucks, and while Focus Punch is incredibly strong, I never found much use for it. For example against Skarmory, if you Sub on the switch then use Focus Punch, the Skarm will tank the hit and whirlwind you away, just the same as if you were running PuP + Crunch. I'd rather have the potential of being at +2 than being down 25% HP guaranteed.

Not to mention, most players on the ladder also recognize that Mega Kangaskahn will completely mow over their teams unless you sacrifice things to it, so you're not likely to find a free turn to set up a Sub.

Hey guys, what about Dusclops?

I already addressed all the Ghosts a few pages back (probably a dozen pages back at this point, given how fast this thread moves)! While you're correct in that Dusclops is one of the few Ghosts that can reliably take 2 Crunches and WoW Mega Kangaskahn, it's a setup-fodder Pokemon in general unlike Sableye. It was very difficult to use on a standard team even in last gen 5's UU.

 

[Hoenn]

Has anyone got any ideas for offensive partners for this thing? I'm trying to remember something that attracts bulky steels and ghost types but coming up short.

 

[Liarliarpantsonfire]

Ghost/Normal core is strong as always ever since Gen 1 with Snorlax and Gengar. They are immune to each others weaknesses and attack from both sides of the spectrum respectively. Gengar and Kangaskhan has been mentioned and just works very well.

 

[RaRaRabbit]

So since M-Gengar's ban, I have been trying to think of who I want as my new mega, and I have kind of settled on M-Kanga. I do have a couple questions though...

First, and this might be against the rules to ask this.... but... looking at the thread, it seems a lot of people are saying how over powering and over centralizing M-Kanga is. What does the general thread feel is the possibility of its ban? Should I not even bother, and start looking for another mega? At least after the Gengarite ban, Gengar is still Gengar and can be useful, so I don't feel like I lost TOO much out of the M-Gengar ban. However, regular Kanga.... won't be that lucky. Will I be wasting my time?

Second, and this is a little longer... it seems like the move set that I have seen to be the most interesting from this thread's suggestions is Return, PuP, Crunch, Sucker Punch. I know an alternate move set that has been mentioned is Return, PuP, Earthquake, Crunch/Sucker Punch, although this seems to be with a lot of people arguing over sucker punch to crunch usefulness. Also, according to the MoveSet Statistics, it seems that EQ is the 4th most used move, while crunch is the 6th, with a huge difference in the percentage of usage.... (EQ being %64 and Crunch being %10). Can some one convince me why it would be more prominent to run EQ when a +2 PuP might just be good enough? My second fear is Aegislash with balloon... I have seen quite a few... I hate them. And that is one reason why I am hanging back on the EQ train, due to things like him.

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

So since M-Gengar's ban, I have been trying to think of who I want as my new mega, and I have kind of settled on M-Kanga. I do have a couple questions though...

First, and this might be against the rules to ask this.... but... looking at the thread, it seems a lot of people are saying how over powering and over centralizing M-Kanga is. What does the general thread feel is the possibility of its ban? Should I not even bother, and start looking for another mega? At least after the Gengarite ban, Gengar is still Gengar and can be useful, so I don't feel like I lost TOO much out of the M-Gengar ban. However, regular Kanga.... won't be that lucky. Will I be wasting my time?

Second, and this is a little longer... it seems like the move set that I have seen to be the most interesting from this thread's suggestions is Return, PuP, Crunch, Sucker Punch. I know an alternate move set that has been mentioned is Return, PuP, Earthquake, Crunch/Sucker Punch, although this seems to be with a lot of people arguing over sucker punch to crunch usefulness. Also, according to the MoveSet Statistics, it seems that EQ is the 4th most used move, while crunch is the 6th, with a huge difference in the percentage of usage.... (EQ being %64 and Crunch being %10). Can some one convince me why it would be more prominent to run EQ when a +2 PuP might just be good enough? My second fear is Aegislash with balloon... I have seen quite a few... I hate them. And that is one reason why I am hanging back on the EQ train, due to things like him.

When aegislash comes in you use pup in regular form to hit it with scrappy then you sucker punch as he kings shield (sucker punch doesnt trigger the shield effect), and then:
+1 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 294-348 (90.7 - 107.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
Aegislash is simply one of the worst kangaskhan switch ins possible, theres absolutely zero chance for it to even scratch you. Stick with crunch and sucker punch, earthquake is useless. Without crunch you cant touch will o wisp ghosts like trevenant and jellicent, without sucker punch you cant kill faster threats. You need both.

 

[RaRaRabbit]

Thats basically confirming why I would use the crunch + sucker punch combo. And I have been in fear of just running crunch against Aegislash, and in fear of just running Sucker Punch against things with WoW... so yeah. just run both. No need for EQ anyways.

 

[MegaSnorlax]

So I have to ask: Why was mega gengar instantly putten to ubers ban, but mega kangaskhan is not getting anything near that? This things got perfect coverage. The only thing even close to a counter is skarmory, but lets be honest here, skarmory will not last a +2 fire punch twice to the face. This thing EASILY sweeps entire teams, yet no one is even considering this thing for ubers? This thing can live all kinds of things with its bulk.

Bulky Arcanine counters Kangaskan easily. It counters Aegislash too and is really good in the meta right now. ghosts with WoW that outspeed khan counter it too. MegaKhan has power but it has never really given me much trouble.

 

[Ajwf]

I already addressed all the Ghosts a few pages back (probably a dozen pages back at this point, given how fast this thread moves)! While you're correct in that Dusclops is one of the few Ghosts that can reliably take 2 Crunches and WoW Mega Kangaskahn, it's a setup-fodder Pokemon in general unlike Sableye. It was very difficult to use on a standard team even in last gen 5's UU.

Any chance of quoting this?

The issue with khan right now is the possibility of crunch. So few run it that I can generally get away with using Misdreveus (don't ask, I'm not explaining myself) or cofagrigus against it, but the ones that do completely wreck house. This is because ghosts are the best way to slow down PuP and boosts in general. But sableye is really impractical to a lot of teams, so finding more than one counter would be nice (though cofagrigus PROBABLY counts).

So, two counters take care of 90% of khan. Is that seriously it?

Bulky Arcanine counters Kangaskan easily. It counters Aegislash too and is really good in the meta right now. ghosts with WoW that outspeed khan counter it too. MegaKhan has power but it has never really given me much trouble.

Uhm, did you check the usage stats on Khan? I seem to remember 70% of them running eq, or something like that.

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

Bulky Arcanine counters Kangaskan easily. It counters Aegislash too and is really good in the meta right now. ghosts with WoW that outspeed khan counter it too. MegaKhan has power but it has never really given me much trouble.

+1 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Arcanine: 333-393 (86.7 - 102.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
If you want to ''counter kangaskhan'' you need to be able to tank a boosted hit after a power up punch, which is definitely not the case here.

 

[MagikaripIsOP]

wouldn't it be at +2 not +1

 

[Deaga]

Intimidate lowers it to +1.

 

[MegaSnorlax]

+1 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Arcanine: 333-393 (86.7 - 102.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
If you want to ''counter kangaskhan'' you need to be able to tank a boosted hit after a power up punch, which is definitely not the case here.

factor in Intimidate. Also it is easy to not let Khan set up PuP in the first place.

Also intimidated EQ does not do alot of damage to Arcanine. The good players are the ones who use Return against it. Still Arcanine is a brilliant counter and switch in. Switch a ghost in to PUP then switch Arcanine in and burn it.

MegaKhan only is dominant vs bad players. It is easy to stop, much easier then Talonflame atleast.

 

[Ajwf]

I find that garbage. Mega khan is not easy to stop, even for experienced players, esp stall users. But nice poisoning the well, I appreciate you destroying credibility of anyone arguing that Khan is way too good.

The issue with khan is it is a bit like mega gengar: It is being used wrong. With dark/fight/normal coverage and drain punch, it technically isn't walled at all. The issue to this test is 90% don't run crunch AKA get walled by all (most) ghosts.

 

[MegaSnorlax]

Its not garbage. Im telling you based on experience. Either ignore my advice and keep getting destoryed by MegaKangaskhans, or listen to it.

 

[Jayd]

factor in Intimidate. Also it is easy to not let Khan set up PuP in the first place.

Also intimidated EQ does not do alot of damage to Arcanine. The good players are the ones who use Return against it. Still Arcanine is a brilliant counter and switch in. Switch a ghost in to PUP then switch Arcanine in and burn it.

MegaKhan only is dominant vs bad players. It is easy to stop, much easier then Talonflame atleast.

It's easy to stop once you have a ghost and it isn't running Crunch and your opponent doesn't predict a double switch into the Arcanine you may or may not have.

Anything is easy to counter under optimal conditions. The problem with Megakhan is that optimal conditions are pretty much needed to counter it. In most cases if you can't stop it from PuPing, you're done. Saying "well it's ok if you have a ghost and an Arcanine" misses the point.

Talonflame is much easier to stop.

 

[Ajwf]

Your 'advice' last post (post 750) was "MegaKhan only is dominant vs bad players. It is easy to stop, much easier then Talonflame atleast.". I say this is garbage. There is no advice here. (For your information, I have yet to get wrecked by khan, but still respect it's power as way too much for OU. Might want to stop making assumptions now).

I run counters on every team for Khan, in fact I improvise counters as well, but it is still way too OP. Try testing a bunch of pokemon against it with khan running ideal sets. Not much works. In fact, my improvised counters are solely based on usage stats, which will not get you very far against someone who goes a bit out of their way to run crunch.

 

[Magnemite]

Its not garbage. Im telling you based on experience. Either ignore my advice and keep getting destoryed by MegaKangaskhans, or listen to it.

Why are you ignoring the calcs previously posted? If Arcanine switches into PuP, it gets OHKOed by the incoming Earthquake. If Kangaskhan has already used PuP once before Arcanine switches in, it gets OHKOed by Kangaskhan the following turn by EQ if it has taken any prior damage. How exactly does Arcanine check, let alone counter Kangaskhan?

 

[PK Gaming]

Its not garbage. Im telling you based on experience. Either ignore my advice and keep getting destoryed by MegaKangaskhans, or listen to it.

Don't do this.

Either you start refuting valid arguments with substantive claims, or i'll be forced to start deleting (and infracting) your posts.

 

[Ryolain]

factor in Intimidate. Also it is easy to not let Khan set up PuP in the first place.

Also intimidated EQ does not do alot of damage to Arcanine. The good players are the ones who use Return against it. Still Arcanine is a brilliant counter and switch in. Switch a ghost in to PUP then switch Arcanine in and burn it.

MegaKhan only is dominant vs bad players. It is easy to stop, much easier then Talonflame atleast.

Switching to a Ghost first means Arcanine is not countering it. It's checking it in tandem with a teammate and prediction. There's also absolutely nothing stopping MKang from just using PuP when you switch Arcanine in as you're switching your Ghost out. If they do that, you stand a pretty good chance at getting killed by PuP -> Return before you even touch it. EQ versions just flat out beat you, even without a PuP boost. EQ will always out damage Return, so I don't know what the hell you're talking about saying it "does not do a lot of damage" and saying good players will use Return. Arcanine might be a check in certain situations, but it's definitely not a counter, and you have to run such a weird EV spread to pull it off that Arcanine isn't doing much else on your team.

 

[Magnemite]

Your 'advice' last post (post 750) was "MegaKhan only is dominant vs bad players. It is easy to stop, much easier then Talonflame atleast.". I say this is garbage. There is no advice here. (For your information, I have yet to get wrecked by khan, but still respect it's power as way too much for OU. Might want to stop making assumptions now).

I run counters on every team for Khan, in fact I improvise counters as well, but it is still way too OP. Try testing a bunch of pokemon against it with khan running ideal sets. Not much works. In fact, my improvised counters are solely based on usage stats, which will not get you very far against someone who goes a bit out of their way to run crunch.

I'm assuming that they don't run Crunch because without Sucker Punch it is very difficult for it to sweep offensive teams, which are by far the most common team archetype in the current metagame. If it lacks priority, it is very easily revenge killed against offense. You can (and should) run both, but most ladder players probably wouldn't think to do that.

 

[Ajwf]

So do we then assume that it isn't OP because of 4mss? Because, like mega gengar, it can be sent to wreck specific team archtypes, and can do so to a large majority of style with overwhelming power?

I think that was discussed at the beginning of the set building for the Khan analysis. It can revenge kill just about anything, sweep offense teams and wall break with ease. In my eyes, it performs all styles at a premier level, and specifically the sweeper style with an ability that is perhaps too good for OU (due to it's bulk, power, speed combo).

 

[Varnithis]

I'm assuming that they don't run Crunch because without Sucker Punch it is very difficult for it to sweep offensive teams, which are by far the most common team archetype in the current metagame. If it lacks priority, it is very easily revenge killed against offense.

I run both. PuP/Return/Crunch/SP. Rocky helmet Ferrothorn can be obnoxious, but I have other mons for him anyways. Crunch and SP because the safeest way to stop PuP is to switch a ghost in. This is usually obvious, and if they switch a ghost into what they think is PuP, and eat Crunch instead, they are usually out a ghost, and Khan is now running off his base 100 speed. EQ is very nice against some threats, but Crunch hits all of them neutrally as well, and once you get PuP rolling Return or even a neutral crunch is going to tear a big hole in any physical wall.

Sableye is the safest ghost to come in, and is still the most rock solid check to Megakhan i've seen. I've had suprising success with Hawlucha as well, but Hawlucha gets hurt real bad to kick Khan in the face (but it's a real good shot at the OHKO).

 

[Ryolain]

I run both. PuP/Return/Crunch/SP. Rocky helmet Ferrothorn can be obnoxious, but I have other mons for him anyways. Crunch and SP because the safeest way to stop PuP is to switch a ghost in. This is usually obvious, and if they switch a ghost into what they think is PuP, and eat Crunch instead, they are usually out a ghost, and Khan is now running off his base 100 speed. EQ is very nice against some threats, but Crunch hits all of them neutrally as well, and once you get PuP rolling Return or even a neutral crunch is going to tear a big hole in any physical wall.

Sableye is the safest ghost to come in, and is still the most rock solid check to Megakhan i've seen. I've had suprising success with Hawlucha as well, but Hawlucha gets hurt real bad to kick Khan in the face (but it's a real good shot at the OHKO).

I also run both. People keep pitting Crunch vs. Sucker Punch against each other for a moveslot when they cover completely different things and serve different purposes. There's no reason to choose one or the other.

 

[MagikaripIsOP]

I run fire punch for ferro and skarm