Like Punchshroom said, the Infestation comes first, then the Sleep Powder on the trapped foe. I usually Sub first to scout. If they switch, free sub. If they try to status, free sub. If they try set up (which they usually do thinking I'm gonna switch), free sub. If they try to sub, free sub (since Infiltrator ignores that). Use Infestation on whatever is in when they probably break the sub, then try to Sleep Powder if you're faster, or switch and give yourself an opportunity to set up with something else.
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Other Creative / Underrated Sets Thread (Read the thread, NO SHITTY GIMMICKS)
- Thread starter ginganinja
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It's an interesting idea, but I think the problem with this is that Thundurus is too frail to afford to let Sleep Talk pick a random move. Healing that LO recoil is nice and all, but if you're up against like a Garchomp or something and you want the HP Ice but get Rest or Tbolt... well, yeah. Rest-Talk usually works because the guys who use it can afford to take a hit; Thundurus can't. He'd die before he gets to Rest again.
I'm not sure it's *underrated* per se, but I have yet to see one on the ladder and think it should be getting more usage, so here we go:
The Lando Calrissian Bluff
Landorus-Therian @ Assault Vest
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 SDef
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- U-Turn
- Knock Off
As far as I could tell, Lando got two major boosts coming into X and Y. The first was Assault Vest; already with solid physical bulk thanks to intimidate, Landorus could also complement its special bulk with an assault vest, while at the same time bluffing a choice set. The first thing that goes into most players heads when they see a Lando sans leftovers is that it's a scarfer, which can really help maintain a nice bluff. The second major bonus that Lando got was Knock Off. With the new Knock Off buff, there's no reason *not* to use the move on him; it basically suits him perfectly. Not only does he really benefit from knocking items off his counters, like Skarmory's leftovers, Gliscor's Toxic Orb, or Dragonite's weakness policy, but he can also check most justified users hoping to switch in; he can tank attacks from (non band) Terrakion, even after the justified boost, and KO back with Earthquake.
Lando's improved bulk with intimidate + assault vest allows him to work as a crucial defensive pivot while also pressuring the opponent into thinking that you're running a choice set, making this Landorus-Therian a valuable contribution to bulky offense and voltturn, the two most dominant playstyles so far in X and Y.
The Lando Calrissian Bluff
Landorus-Therian @ Assault Vest
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 SDef
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- U-Turn
- Knock Off
As far as I could tell, Lando got two major boosts coming into X and Y. The first was Assault Vest; already with solid physical bulk thanks to intimidate, Landorus could also complement its special bulk with an assault vest, while at the same time bluffing a choice set. The first thing that goes into most players heads when they see a Lando sans leftovers is that it's a scarfer, which can really help maintain a nice bluff. The second major bonus that Lando got was Knock Off. With the new Knock Off buff, there's no reason *not* to use the move on him; it basically suits him perfectly. Not only does he really benefit from knocking items off his counters, like Skarmory's leftovers, Gliscor's Toxic Orb, or Dragonite's weakness policy, but he can also check most justified users hoping to switch in; he can tank attacks from (non band) Terrakion, even after the justified boost, and KO back with Earthquake.
Lando's improved bulk with intimidate + assault vest allows him to work as a crucial defensive pivot while also pressuring the opponent into thinking that you're running a choice set, making this Landorus-Therian a valuable contribution to bulky offense and voltturn, the two most dominant playstyles so far in X and Y.
Oh I agree completely, I just really enjoy the idea of Prankster + Sleep Talk to screw with the game mechanics and Thundurus is really the only Prankster user that can function offensively. If the rumors are correct and Thundurus gets Aeroblast this gen it might be more viable since then he'd have a very reliable STAB to spam that couldn't potentially be walled by any Ground type. Currently it would probably only be a successful strategy with screen support to take hits better, maybe on a priority/Prankster abusing team with double screen Klefki? On that note I played around with a SleepTalk Klefki right when XY came out with Swagger and Twave that really messed up anyone without Taunt or a Ground type, but it doesn't do much more than the standard SwagKey aside from being more annoying to kill if you can't OHKO it.
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Manaphy @ Lefties
Jolly Nature
252 HP / 252 Spe / 4 Att
-Knock Off
-Heal Bell
-U-turn
-Waterfall
With Drizzle around, offensive Manaphy was always the most obvious set, but she actually has a pretty great utility movepool that's not so blatantly overshadowed after the weather nerf. It has a niche of being the fastest status healer in OU bar Espeon, who's much more frail and has worse typing. Lacking Wish limits its role as a true cleric, but it does have the new and improved Knock Off to play with instead. Heart Swap and Skill Swap might also be options to consider, particular Skill Swap now that swapping a useless Hydration onto something is actually beneficial to you.
Jolly Nature
252 HP / 252 Spe / 4 Att
-Knock Off
-Heal Bell
-U-turn
-Waterfall
With Drizzle around, offensive Manaphy was always the most obvious set, but she actually has a pretty great utility movepool that's not so blatantly overshadowed after the weather nerf. It has a niche of being the fastest status healer in OU bar Espeon, who's much more frail and has worse typing. Lacking Wish limits its role as a true cleric, but it does have the new and improved Knock Off to play with instead. Heart Swap and Skill Swap might also be options to consider, particular Skill Swap now that swapping a useless Hydration onto something is actually beneficial to you.
Shroomisaur
Smogon's fantastical fun-guy.
As many people have noted, the metagame is very fast-paced and one of the best ways to gain momentum is with a slow, bulky pivot. Rotom and Lando are extremely common as a result, but there's someone eelse lurking under the water (pun very much intended):
EelVestross
Eelektross @ Assault Vest
Quiet Nature
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
- Volt Switch
- Knock Off
- Flamethrower
- Giga Drain / Acid Spray / Superpower
Sorry Sableye & Spiritomb, Eelektross is now the only Pokemon in the game with zero weaknesses. While it has solid stats all-around, it was held back previously by a lack of utility. XY has answered Eelektross' prayers! First of all, its giant offensive movepool is perfect for Assault Vest, packing a wonderfully slow STAB Volt Switch, the incredibly buffed Knock Off, and boatloads of coverage moves to choose from. Secondly, with 85/80/80 defenses, zero weaknesses (screw you Excadrill) and Assault Vest, he can easily tank most special threats and hit back hard. It can also run a more defensive spread to better handle certain threats.
EDIT: More thoughts/discussion on both special and physical Vestross in the AV thread.
EelVestross
Eelektross @ Assault Vest
Quiet Nature
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
- Volt Switch
- Knock Off
- Flamethrower
- Giga Drain / Acid Spray / Superpower
Sorry Sableye & Spiritomb, Eelektross is now the only Pokemon in the game with zero weaknesses. While it has solid stats all-around, it was held back previously by a lack of utility. XY has answered Eelektross' prayers! First of all, its giant offensive movepool is perfect for Assault Vest, packing a wonderfully slow STAB Volt Switch, the incredibly buffed Knock Off, and boatloads of coverage moves to choose from. Secondly, with 85/80/80 defenses, zero weaknesses (screw you Excadrill) and Assault Vest, he can easily tank most special threats and hit back hard. It can also run a more defensive spread to better handle certain threats.
EDIT: More thoughts/discussion on both special and physical Vestross in the AV thread.
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Seems as a viable set, but why Giga Drain? Water-types won't be switching into you, and the only common Ground-type hit super effectively by it is Hippowdon, which you can't get past anyway, while it can just set up Stealth Rock and phaze you away. It's your best bet against Tyranitar, but you are doing jack shit to it and you are better off using Volt Switch as he comes in. I guess its nice for Mamoswine and Rotom-W, but that seems to be it. On the other hand, Drain Punch is a much more useful option. Drain Punch easily 2HKOes max HP Tyranitar, Excadrill (which avoids the 2HKO from Flamethrower with Assault Vest), is your best bet against Heatran (and can even 2HKO offensive variants if you use max Atk+), while in general providing way better coverage than Giga Drain and uses your superior Atk stat. Actually, it seems like a physically offensive set would work better, something like this:
Brave Nature:
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpA
- U-turn
- Thunderbolt
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
Those moves get perfect neutral coverage together, and a Fire move is not really needed when most Steel-types are covered by either Drain Punch (Ferrothorn, Heatran, Magnezone, Lucario, Excadrill), Thunderbolt (Skarmory, Forretress), or Knock Off (Aegislash). Same goes for Grass-types, most of which are covered by Knock Off (Celebi, Trevenant, Gourgeist, Roserade) or Drain Punch (Ferrothorn). U-turn > Volt Switch for guaranteed momentum, as otherwise you would need to predict correctly against Hippowdon (which would make you useless anyway, as you can't get past it), Excadrill, Garchomp, Landorus-T, etc. Of course you could use more SpA and fit HP Ice or Flamethrower somewhere there, as OHKOing Pokemon such as Landorus-T, Gliscor, Genesect, and Scizor can be huge, but it feels that most of the moves on the set are not easily replaced. U-turn means 100% free switches for your offensive Pokemon, Knock Off is amazing as everybody knows and covers quite a bit of threats, Thunderbolt is STAB, and Drain Punch is your best bet for recovery and getting past Excadrill, Tyranitar, and Heatran, which are everywhere.
I've been using this set with mild sucess in the OU metagame. This is meant to get a lategame or a surprise sweep, and only tends to fail aggainst priority users. The set is pretty straight forward:
Darmanitan @ Salac Berry
Jolly Nature Sheer Force:
252 Speed / 252 Atk / 4 Spd
- Fire Punch
- Rock Slide/Stone Edge
- Endure
- Belly Drum
Its pretty simples, people mostly expect a choiced Darmatian, so usually if you send it aggaisnt something weak to fire, or expect them to send out a water mon, you belly drum. A +6 Fire Punch/Rock Slide from sheer force darmanitan can pretty much OHKO anything that dosent resist it 1/4. Even the most bulky water mons will die to a +6 Sheer Force Stone edge/rock slide! The only bad part of the set is usually getting outspeed by other stuff like scarf mons/gengar. The endure + salac berry lets you have +6 attack and +1 speed which poses a real threat aggaisnt alot of unprepared teams! Of course this isnt a auto win or anything, it has lots of counters, but it can work as surprise factor, and if your oponent lacks a scarfer with 96+speed, or a aqua jet(mega scizor bulelt punch wont kill darm if he is at half HP). you are usually set for a sweep! Have fun now!
Darmanitan @ Salac Berry
Jolly Nature Sheer Force:
252 Speed / 252 Atk / 4 Spd
- Fire Punch
- Rock Slide/Stone Edge
- Endure
- Belly Drum
Its pretty simples, people mostly expect a choiced Darmatian, so usually if you send it aggaisnt something weak to fire, or expect them to send out a water mon, you belly drum. A +6 Fire Punch/Rock Slide from sheer force darmanitan can pretty much OHKO anything that dosent resist it 1/4. Even the most bulky water mons will die to a +6 Sheer Force Stone edge/rock slide! The only bad part of the set is usually getting outspeed by other stuff like scarf mons/gengar. The endure + salac berry lets you have +6 attack and +1 speed which poses a real threat aggaisnt alot of unprepared teams! Of course this isnt a auto win or anything, it has lots of counters, but it can work as surprise factor, and if your oponent lacks a scarfer with 96+speed, or a aqua jet(mega scizor bulelt punch wont kill darm if he is at half HP). you are usually set for a sweep! Have fun now!
The biggest problem with this set is of course going to be Azumaril. Even if you manage to get off a belly drum, 1 quick aqua jet is going to OHKO it. You definitely need to have counters to Azumaril for this set. Also if you switch in to SR even once and belly drum standard CB Scizor will still OHKO with Bullet Punch. I think that this set isn't really viable, because it needs a lot of babysitting to pull off effectively, which isn't really worth the trouble if its going to just die right after getting +6 Attack.
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Im rly liking this set atm. It has saved me multiple times (and i dont think its been mentioned)
Sharpedo @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Protect/Ice beam
- Waterfall
- Crunch
- Destiny Bond
Carvanha (along with houndour) gets destiny bond as an egg move now. This set is really fun as every one knows sharpy is very frail, so instead of status-ing it, walls kill it. It is simple get speed boosts, kill stuff, use d bond when you will be killed. It is also great at stopping sweepers with less than 1 speed boost and bulky megas/walls. It is fun surprise killing rotom.
Sharpedo @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Protect/Ice beam
- Waterfall
- Crunch
- Destiny Bond
Carvanha (along with houndour) gets destiny bond as an egg move now. This set is really fun as every one knows sharpy is very frail, so instead of status-ing it, walls kill it. It is simple get speed boosts, kill stuff, use d bond when you will be killed. It is also great at stopping sweepers with less than 1 speed boost and bulky megas/walls. It is fun surprise killing rotom.
I use a ferothorn + mandibuzz with defog, they both can support really well darm. Darm really isnt the biggest star of my team, but with the apropriate support it can really wreck stuff :D
Considering that OHKO moves are banned on smogon, I'm thinking of trying this set out for wifi battles.
Lapras @ Lum Berry
EVs: 252 HP/ 252 Sp Def/ 4 Def
Nature: Calm
- Horn Drill
- Sheer Cold
- Rest
- Sleep talk
Specially defensive master of bullshit luck.
Lapras @ Lum Berry
EVs: 252 HP/ 252 Sp Def/ 4 Def
Nature: Calm
- Horn Drill
- Sheer Cold
- Rest
- Sleep talk
Specially defensive master of bullshit luck.
Why have a lum berry on a restalk pokemon? That nullifies its purpose.
And, i can near guarantee you you'll die before you get the chance to pop one of those off successfully.
Hey Guys, been testing this out on an offensive sun team and seems actually surprisingly viable. Camerupt anyone?
Camerupt @ Leftovers
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Solid Rock
252 Speed/252 Atk/4HP
-Growth
-Flame Charge / Rock Polish
-Earthquake
-Rock Slide
So yeah, pure power and viability on a sun team.
Camerupt @ Leftovers
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Solid Rock
252 Speed/252 Atk/4HP
-Growth
-Flame Charge / Rock Polish
-Earthquake
-Rock Slide
So yeah, pure power and viability on a sun team.
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IDK man, with 70/70/75 defenses and 4x weak to water just spells doom for this guy even in the sun. Azumaril is going to shit on this guy so hard. Also M-Lucario as well as Scizor and popular mach punch users are really going to give this guy a hard time to even do anything. The other problem is that this set is that if you use weakness policy there is really no point in using growth, so you're better off using Weakness Policy + RP, but once again the problem is that this guy really can't take a hit from anything.
Did you get this from Pokemon Showdown Overused chatroom? lol I (my showdown name is mamaboogz) was up there asking people who learns Destiny Bond so I could troll with a pure destiny bond team...
But yeah, I think Mega Houndoom running Sub + Dark Pulse + Flamethrower + Destiny bond is creative (you lose Nasty Plot but you do get a free kill essentially) with 115 speed, and obviously Sub + DBond go really well together because Mega Houndoom isn't frail like it's former for an OHKO
Got a few interesting sets for you guys:
Assault Dog
Acanine @ Assault Vest
Intimidate
Adamant 4 HP 252 Atk / 252 Spe
-Flare Blitz
-Close Combat
-Wild Charge
-Extreme Speed
Physical Wall Mega Scizor
Scizor @ Scizorite
Technician
Impish 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
-Bullet Punch
-Roost
-Defog
-Knock Off
Assault Dog
Acanine @ Assault Vest
Intimidate
Adamant 4 HP 252 Atk / 252 Spe
-Flare Blitz
-Close Combat
-Wild Charge
-Extreme Speed
Physical Wall Mega Scizor
Scizor @ Scizorite
Technician
Impish 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
-Bullet Punch
-Roost
-Defog
-Knock Off
Definitely liking the utility M-Scizor, but the Arcanine set is really iffy. Like Arcanine isn't really bulky and since you have no EV's invested in tank, the Assault Vest is wasted, you are probably better off just running a Life Orb or Choice Band to maximize your damage.
I have tried a similar set on regular Scizor in the past and it worked out pretty well, so I wouldn't be too surprised if I saw this set being used in the near future.
With an offensive spread (4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe), factoring in Intimidate and the Assault Vest, Arcanine's defensive stats at lv100 are 322 HP / 294 Def / 294 SpD which isn't that terrible for a bulky attacker. I could probably move some offensive investment into HP or the defenses to make it a little more bulky though.
I made a really shitty team that was just being devoured by RotomW and was looking for an answer for it when I came up with this set which works great on its own but especially against RotomW:
Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
Adamant, Guts
168 HP/ 228 Att/ 112 Sp Def
-Drain Punch
-Knock Off
-Mach Punch/Power Up Punch
-Ice Punch/Stone Edge
The EVs could probably use some tweaking, but 252/252 hardly seemed appropriate as this set is made to take Special Attacks, dish out powerful Drain Punches, and recover HP.
Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
Adamant, Guts
168 HP/ 228 Att/ 112 Sp Def
-Drain Punch
-Knock Off
-Mach Punch/Power Up Punch
-Ice Punch/Stone Edge
The EVs could probably use some tweaking, but 252/252 hardly seemed appropriate as this set is made to take Special Attacks, dish out powerful Drain Punches, and recover HP.
Hm, I'd definitely like to try out that scizor. I've been looking a bit at a bulky roost megascizor to set up multiple swords dances, but this seems a bit better use of that bulk, especially with only the one weakness. However, I might prefer U-Turn > Bullet Punch for better damage output and the ability to fit nicely as a defogger for VoltTurn, which really has no resident defogger right now. Definitely going to try this out though, thanks.
EDIT: I've been trying your set and loving it. Here's this replay of your scizor entirely dismantling the opponent's team if you'd like it (U-Turn was used over Bullet Punch):
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pokebankoubeta-69804069
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I have seen people run this set before, it is definitely extremely viable. Assault vest makes Conk really tanky and Drain punch gives a reliable way of healing damage. I would though say to put another slash on the fourth move for Thunderpunch, so Conk has a way of hitting water types of Azumaril and Gyara harder. Nonetheless this is a great set.
Nice! I thought the set might be good since it has the same physical bulk as Skarmory, but better special Defence and Attack, plus it only has 1 weakness which is super easy to cover. The only reason I used Bullet Punch over U-turn was so that Technician wouldn't be a useless ability, plus a little priority is always nice.
perplexingpool
Banned deucer.
Leavanny @ Focus Sash
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- Sticky Web
- Knock Off
- Magic Coat
- Leaf Blade
I've been using this as an offensive sticky web lead to some success. Focus Sash guarantees you can get up Sticky Web, Magic Coat bounces back taunt, opposing hazards, etc. Leaf Blade is obligatory STAB, and Knock Off is a great support move, and provides coverage alongside Leaf Blade. Overcoat makes sure sandstorm damage doesn't break your sash. It hits surprisingly hard as well:
252 Atk Leavanny Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 234-276 (57.9 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Leavanny Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 236-282 (77.6 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Leavanny Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Donphan: 176-210 (45.8 - 54.6%) -- 53.5% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Leavanny Leaf Blade vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 302-356 (88.5 - 104.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Leavanny Leaf Blade vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 126-148 (35.7 - 42%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pokebankoubeta-69685032 Here is a replay showcasing this set. Note: At this point I was using Toxic instead of Magic Coat on Leavanny.
It's reliably able to set up Sticky Web, Knock Off an item, and weaken something before going down. Sometimes it'll get up more hazards or status something with Magic Coat, or even kill something. I'm not sure if it's a better Sticky Webber than Galvantula and Smeargle, but I definitely think it's pretty good.
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- Sticky Web
- Knock Off
- Magic Coat
- Leaf Blade
I've been using this as an offensive sticky web lead to some success. Focus Sash guarantees you can get up Sticky Web, Magic Coat bounces back taunt, opposing hazards, etc. Leaf Blade is obligatory STAB, and Knock Off is a great support move, and provides coverage alongside Leaf Blade. Overcoat makes sure sandstorm damage doesn't break your sash. It hits surprisingly hard as well:
252 Atk Leavanny Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 234-276 (57.9 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Leavanny Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 236-282 (77.6 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Leavanny Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Donphan: 176-210 (45.8 - 54.6%) -- 53.5% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Leavanny Leaf Blade vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 302-356 (88.5 - 104.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Leavanny Leaf Blade vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 126-148 (35.7 - 42%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pokebankoubeta-69685032 Here is a replay showcasing this set. Note: At this point I was using Toxic instead of Magic Coat on Leavanny.
It's reliably able to set up Sticky Web, Knock Off an item, and weaken something before going down. Sometimes it'll get up more hazards or status something with Magic Coat, or even kill something. I'm not sure if it's a better Sticky Webber than Galvantula and Smeargle, but I definitely think it's pretty good.
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