Pokémon Kangaskhan

[Lee]

Have people even tested the relationship between Transform and Mega-evos? I wouldn't be surprised if Ditto just became the un-mega evolved form; you don't acquire the Choice Band boost if you transform into a CB Terrakion, I don't see why you'd acquire the Kangaskhanite 'boost' if you switch into MegaKhan.

 

[Kawaii Kyouko]

Have people even tested the relationship between Transform and Mega-evos? I wouldn't be surprised if Ditto just became the un-mega evolved form; you don't acquire the Choice Band boost if you transform into a CB Terrakion, I don't see why you'd acquire the Kangaskhanite 'boost' if you switch into MegaKhan.

Ditto copies Megaforms too.

 

[Caliber Champ]

People really don't know about ditto? Really?

Its a threat. My ditto has survived a + 2 sucker punch from full health at max HP investment. Also, with scarf ditto that transforms into mega kang. Its always going to win the sucker punch battle. Sucker punch vs sucker punch will work and if kang has less than max HP it gets KOed. Ditto saved me from many would be sweeps from mega kang and uses their own weapon against them with speed from choice scarf.

 

[TKGriffiths]

People really don't know about ditto? Really?

Its a threat. My ditto has survived a + 2 sucker punch from full health at max HP investment. Also, with scarf ditto that transforms into mega kang. Its always going to win the sucker punch battle. Sucker punch vs sucker punch will work and if kang has less than max HP it gets KOed. Ditto saved me from many would be sweeps from mega kang and uses their own weapon against them with speed from choice scarf.

Yeah but you never want to use Sucker Punch with Ditto unless absolutely necessary because it's complete setup fodder. I think it's best to go for Return even if you have to eat a sucker punch because it'll do massive damage to switch-ins. If they have a ghost to switch to you could argue it's optimal to go for a Crunch.

 

[Dragontamer]

Have people even tested the relationship between Transform and Mega-evos? I wouldn't be surprised if Ditto just became the un-mega evolved form; you don't acquire the Choice Band boost if you transform into a CB Terrakion, I don't see why you'd acquire the Kangaskhanite 'boost' if you switch into MegaKhan.

I've tested this in-game, at least with Mega-Mawile and Talonflame. Ditto not only (impostor) copies the mega-form on switchin, but also the swords dances / power-up punches along with it.

The problem however, is that +2 Mega-Khan beats Ditto. Ditto is forced to use Sucker-punch, which Mega-Khan survives due to massive amounts of HP. Mega-Khan therefore uses Return and wins. If Ditto uses Return, it wins... but Mega-Khan OHKOs Ditto with +2 Sucker Punch.

So it is a 50/50 game against Ditto's favor. Khan's safest play is to use Sucker-Punch, and let it fail against the faster Ditto. Then, he can switch-out to a different pokemon safely because Ditto is locked into lol Choice-Scarf Sucker Punch.

 

[Otter Power]

Besides, if we're looking to Ditto for counters, I feel we're getting pretty close to the bottom of the proverbial barrel.

So true, but it works. ANYTHING to rid myself of that evil mom with her evil child. Although, even Ditto has a hard time countering her if she has boosted with Power-up punch. Since Kangaskhan has way more HP than Ditto, she can survive a +2 attack from ditto and retaliate with her own +2 attack, which would be enough to kill the Ditto ;-;

The only other thing I've been able to use to counter megakhan is a suicide Froslass/Gengar with Destiny bond. You can DB on the first turn, because sucker punch (usually Kanga's only ghost-coverage move) will fail on it. On the second turn, you can use an attack, and Kanga will die. Yeah, you lose one of your Pokemon to kill it, but it's better than losing six.

 

[Panda]

So true, but it works. ANYTHING to rid myself of that evil mom with her evil child. Although, even Ditto has a hard time countering her if she has boosted with Power-up punch. Since Kangaskhan has way more HP than Ditto, she can survive a +2 attack from ditto and retaliate with her own +2 attack, which would be enough to kill the Ditto ;-;

The only other thing I've been able to use to counter megakhan is a suicide Froslass/Gengar with Destiny bond. You can DB on the first turn, because sucker punch (usually Kanga's only ghost-coverage move) will fail on it. On the second turn, you can use an attack, and Kanga will die. Yeah, you lose one of your Pokemon to kill it, but it's better than losing six.

What about Sub/Focus Blast Gengar? Not sure what the calcs are off the top of my head, but I would imagine that FB is at least close to a OHKO.

 

[Mortrialus]

What about Sub/Focus Blast Gengar? Not sure what the calcs are off the top of my head, but I would imagine that FB is at least close to a OHKO.

Doesn't work on Crunch variants.

 

[TKGriffiths]

Doesn't work on Crunch variants.

Yeah even SubDisable doesn't work because you can use Sucker Punch after breaking the sub with Crunch and have that get Disabled instead of Crunch, in the same way Conkeldurr can break a sub with Payback and then use Mach Punch to avoid Payback being disabled.

 

[eesang]

If you give Ditto a defense of 100 to mirror Mega Kangaskhan:
+2 252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ditto: 255-300 (85 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ditto: 280-330 (93.3 - 110%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

So if you want to roll the dice, opt for the Return and see if you can survive the Sucker Punch as Ditto with no hazard damage.

As the Kang player, you have to be pretty healthy to take even the Ditto's Sucker Punch:
+2 252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 255-300 (72.4 - 85.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 280-330 (79.5 - 93.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

If Ditto goes for Sucker Punch, a healthy Kang has to use Return and a wounded one has to switch.
If Ditto goes for Return, Kang has to Sucker Punch, pray Ditto doesn't Sucker Punch, and hope for good rolls.

If I'm the Kang player, I'd just switch out to a Ghost with status moves and hope he doesn't Crunch for some god awful reason.

 

[TKGriffiths]

Muk is pretty decent against Mega mom if you build in Att and defence or hp, being able to 2HKO Mega mom but is 2HKO'd if Mega Kangashan uses return. The thing here is Muks ability would give a 60% chance of Mega Kangashan being posioned I would think, and I'm pretty sure it doesn't want to be posioned, and after gunk shit Muk dies but has weakendKaKangashan enough to maybe stop it? Is muk worth using against Mega Kangashan?

As you say it can't even beat Mega Kang 1v1 so no. Muk's very bad in OU.

 

[Flamebot]

As you say it can't even beat Mega Kang 1v1 so no. Muk's very bad in OU.

Wasn't sure, justwanted to see what others thought about the 60% posion chance + the over 50% damage Gunk shot, but ethier way it'd have to come in on the free switch. So I just deleted my post lol

 

[TKGriffiths]

Wasn't sure, justwanted to see what others thought about the 60% posion chance + the over 50% damage Gunk shot, but ethier way it'd have to come in on the free switch. So I just deleted my post lol

Muk's a pretty cool pokemon don't get me wrong but it's just not good against Mega Kangaskhan. Then again like 95% of all pokemon lose to Mega Khan lol.

 

[Panda]

Doesn't work on Crunch variants.

Well, not necessarily. More like a 50/50 chance for either 'mon.

Now, obviously Gengar is destroyed on the switch if it's hit by Crunch, but let's just assume the Gengar player predicted well and got it in unscathed. It's immune to three of Kang's attacks on the switch-in, after all. From there, it becomes a guessing game. If the Kang player goes for Sucker Punch (turns out Focus Blast is a guaranteed OHKO from Timid Life Orb Gengar w/ SR, 81.3% chance w/o), either the Gengar dies or it gets its Sub up and proceeds to force Kang to switch out. On the other hand, if the Kang player Crunches then it either risks the KO from Focus Blast or takes down a Sub.

I agree that it's not the best answer to Kang as it relies almost entirely on guesswork, but saying that it can't work isn't technically true.

 

[Surge's Exeggutor]

so whats the consensus with nature? Jolly over Adamant on the standard set?

 

[Torty73]

i think adamant is better with sucker punch

 

[Legitimate Username]

I'd use Jolly over Adamant any day. Mega Lucario can check you easily, but if it never got the chance to mega-evolve, it's stuck at base 90 speed for the first turn. At that point, a +2 Power-Up Punch will OHKO. Likewise, Lucario's Vacuum Wave will only 2HKO at best, and Bullet Punch or Extreme Speed will do even less damage.

EDIT: Torty73, +2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Lucario: 154-183 (54.8 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Sucker Punch ain't gonna save you every time. If Lucario uses ExtremeSpeed then Sucker Punch fails, and if it uses Close Combat then it lives and you die. Jolly saves you from that without a problem.

 

[Torty73]

I'd use Jolly over Adamant any day. Mega Lucario can check you easily, but if it never got the chance to mega-evolve, it's stuck at base 90 speed for the first turn. At that point, a +2 Power-Up Punch will OHKO. Likewise, Lucario's Vacuum Wave will only 2HKO at best, and Bullet Punch or Extreme Speed will do even less damage.

I only use adamant with sucker punch. and what ever people say - sucker punch has saved me in many a battle

 

[Dragontamer]

Well, not necessarily. More like a 50/50 chance for either 'mon.

Now, obviously Gengar is destroyed on the switch if it's hit by Crunch, but let's just assume the Gengar player predicted well and got it in unscathed. It's immune to three of Kang's attacks on the switch-in, after all. From there, it becomes a guessing game. If the Kang player goes for Sucker Punch (turns out Focus Blast is a guaranteed OHKO from Timid Life Orb Gengar w/ SR, 81.3% chance w/o), either the Gengar dies or it gets its Sub up and proceeds to force Kang to switch out. On the other hand, if the Kang player Crunches then it either risks the KO from Focus Blast or takes down a Sub.

I agree that it's not the best answer to Kang as it relies almost entirely on guesswork, but saying that it can't work isn't technically true.

So its a 50/50 chance if you predict well AND hit with a 70% accurate move AND are running a Life Orb (Sub variants tend to run Black Sludge).

IE: Its a 50/50 game of "Khanga Wins if he guesses right", and "Gengar wins if you guess right 2 times in a row... and btw, the "win" only happens 70% of the time. The other 30% of the time, Khanga wins anyway"

Also, Gengar takes over 50% damage from the 2nd hit of Sucker-punch or Crunch. So Gengar also has to be at high-health to play the 50/50 game. If Gengar is at 75% or less (before subbing), the Sucker Punch or Crunch KOs him anyway THROUGH the substitute.

 

[Panda]

So its a 50/50 chance if you predict well AND hit with a 70% accurate move AND are running a Life Orb (Sub variants tend to run Black Sludge).

IE: Its a 50/50 game of "Khanga Wins if he guesses right", and "Gengar wins if you guess right 2 times in a row... and btw, the "win" only happens 70% of the time. The other 30% of the time, Khanga wins anyway"

Also, Gengar takes over 50% damage from the 2nd hit of Sucker-punch or Crunch. So Gengar also has to be at high-health to play the 50/50 game. If Gengar is at 75% or less (before subbing), the Sucker Punch or Crunch KOs him anyway THROUGH the substitute.

Hm...good call. I completely disregarded the 2nd hit of Parental Bond in regards to Gengar attacking from behind a sub. Also, you're right that Life Orb Gengar tends to use something other than Sub, like Protect which wouldn't help at all against Kangaskhan.

 

[Mortrialus]

Hm...good call. I completely disregarded the 2nd hit of Parental Bond in regards to Gengar attacking from behind a sub. Also, you're right that Life Orb Gengar tends to use something other than Sub, like Protect which wouldn't help at all against Kangaskhan.

Yeah, that's why you're starting to see a lot of Megaskhan run both Sucker Punch and Crunch. Gengar comes in and subs, putting itself at 75%. Megaskhan uses Crunch. The first crunch destroys the sub and the 2nd one has a good chance of OHKOing Gengar. Traditionally, Sub / Disable Gengar tend to have Black Sludge / leftovers to heal up the health used on Substitutes.

Sub / Disable Gengar works, but only on Earthquake variants.

 

[shadowpandax]

Your calcs don't take in account Parental Bond.

+2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 370-438 (87.2 - 103.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

 

[Xcreated]

Has any one tried using confragius (idk how to spell the name but the ghost with mummy as it's ability) against mega kang on showdown or something?

 

[Ajwf]

Yeah, cofagrigus was the dedicated counter to kan (and still technically is) on my Dreadnoughts stall team. He works fairly well but really gets wrecked if the kan user is smart enough to play hit and run for a while until you are worn down.

 

[Shroomisaur]

Whelp, Kangaskahnite (finally) got the boot. So long, Megakahn, it was fun while it lasted! Have fun rampaging in the Uber Tire.

With Mega Kangaskahn out of the picture, I doubt there's any reason to discuss normal Kangaskahn. It might be nice in NU, but there's not much hope for it in OU without a +2 PuP, boosted stats, and a choice-free sub-breaking 50% power boost. Looks like this thread's days of crazy damage calculations and niche counters are over.