Pokémon Empoleon

[Razhem]

Visually I love the steel pengüin, but pokemon X is my first real foray into Pokemon, and seeing how defog and stealth rock are transfer only moves (a defogger is something I really would appreciate having...) I have to accept I won't be able to breed one with a decent support set. So basically I'm assuming the assult vest set is pretty much the best it can hope for? I'm also very tempted to breed Dododoggy's set just for the hell of it, seems like it could be surprisingly good.

Also, anybody has thought of trying to get any mileage out of it's Hidden Ability? Seems like a bad idea on principle, but it does have more physical moves than special and access to swords dance, so there sort of seems to be something there, but seems like too much effort initially to me when from what I hear Azumarril is a lot better at it.

 

[Bombkirby]

Visually I love the steel pengüin, but pokemon X is my first real foray into Pokemon, and seeing how defog and stealth rock are transfer only moves (a defogger is something I really would appreciate having...) I have to accept I won't be able to breed one with a decent support set. So basically I'm assuming the assult vest set is pretty much the best it can hope for? I'm also very tempted to breed Dododoggy's set just for the hell of it, seems like it could be surprisingly good.

Also, anybody has thought of trying to get any mileage out of it's Hidden Ability? Seems like a bad idea on principle, but it does have more physical moves than special and access to swords dance, so there sort of seems to be something there, but seems like too much effort initially to me when from what I hear Azumarril is a lot better at it.

You know you can always trade for one right? Plenty of people will be breeding em.

 

[zachmac]

Also, anybody has thought of trying to get any mileage out of it's Hidden Ability? Seems like a bad idea on principle, but it does have more physical moves than special and access to swords dance, so there sort of seems to be something there, but seems like too much effort initially to me when from what I hear Azumarril is a lot better at it.

Stat lowering moves are just so rare(except for ones like Shadow Ball, but those are unreliable), so you'll probably just find your Empoleon attempting to sweep without Defiant triggering. You want something more reliable.

...I've been telling people they need something more reliable a lot lately. I think I'm starting to see a pattern here.

 

[Razhem]

As I understand it trade moves aren't egg moves, so I'd need a ready to play right out of the package Empoleon with those moves since I can't breed one. If anybody is up for trading a 5 IV Empoleon with Defog and Stealth Rock I'd be more than happy, but chances are I won't have anything to offer the other person considering the effort needed to get 5 IVs going in previous pokemon versions, though if by some chance somebody is up for it I'll be more than happy to see if I can give an offer.

 

[EternalZ]

I've been trying out Offensive Defogger Empoleon and it's been working quite well.

Empoleon @ Air Balloon
Modest
252 HP/252 Spa.Atk/4 Spe
- Scald/Surf/Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Stealth Rock/Grass Knot/Hidden Power Fire
- Defog

Also checks stuff like Chomp and Exca before the balloon pops

 

[Dododoggy]

I have a question. Has anyone ever ran a defiant empoleon that was successful? It has a decent physical move pool and iv'e watched OU battles where people have pulled it off nicely. It seems like a gimmick to me but if the situations right, defiant empoleon could kick some butt!

 

[AOPSUser]

Considering that many OU Choice Banders hit harder than Empoleon does AFTER the Defiant boost, I'd say it could work, and would be unexpected, but would be a bit gimmicky.

The hard part is sweeping with the boost.

 

[Terminate421]

I JUST noticed he gets Icy Wind, think he could use that in doubles? Not really as a damage doing move but something to slow down pokemon. Perhaps Tyranitar could use that as a partner or some other slightly average speed pokemon?

 

[JGSabino]

Seeing how Empoleon has an unique typing and supporting role, I think this is one of the best partners to Mega Charizard X. Being a Steel-type it's only natural that it pairs well with Dragon-types, but that's far from being their only sinergy. Mega Zard X also has a really neat typing that allows it to run Roost and even defensive sets efficiently (although those sets hardly justify the mega slot imo); nonethless, it can play as a very efficient bulky setup sweeper that's unfortunately hampered by Stealth Rock.

Empoleon can Defog those sneaky pebbles away while set upping its own Rocks, something Charizard X appreciates, while helping the whole team by walling two huge threats for semi stall teams, Manaphy and Latios. That's a whole niche available for Empoleon. While it might not be able to defeat Manaphy, Roaring it away gives another chance to Charizard X (or any other setup sweeper in this case) to finish the game first. Charizard X is still the best setup sweeper in this regard due to that sexy neutrality or resistance to every move Manaphy carries.

In exchange, Charizard X sports a quad resistance to Fire that Empoleon appreciates, as being a bulky water doesn't ensure him Fire resistance. That means it can check Volcarona and Mega Charizard Y, two threats that can get past even the most specially defensive Empoleon. Additionally, they both aren't very good at dealing with Rock, Ground and Fighting threats, types that relate to Physical attackers and thus make Pokémon like Landorus-T, Slowbro, Tangrowth and Trevenant very viable partners to round off the core.

 

[Dododoggy]

I JUST noticed he gets Icy Wind, think he could use that in doubles? Not really as a damage doing move but something to slow down pokemon. Perhaps Tyranitar could use that as a partner or some other slightly average speed pokemon?

Cresselia is the main icy wind user in doubles. Empoleon in doubles will get slaughtered by the Dis-Quake combo seeing that empoleon has both an electric & ground weakness.

 

[SomeDrunkRockLee]

Stat lowering moves are just so rare(except for ones like Shadow Ball, but those are unreliable), so you'll probably just find your Empoleon attempting to sweep without Defiant triggering. You want something more reliable.

...I've been telling people they need something more reliable a lot lately. I think I'm starting to see a pattern here.

Defog, sticky web, and intimidate have all been mentioned. Swords dance can provide some support in case there's nothing to stat drop, and empoleon has decent priority in aqua jet.

However, this is about where empoleon's reign of terror ends. Feraligatr, crawdaunt, and azumarill all posses stronger aqua jet and, in many respects, better physical coverage. The former two also possess swords dance. The only real benefit would be to use defiant, and honestly it's not really worth it with sticky web usage so low. The main advantage would be switching into defog, but it's situational.

So defiant isn't particularly competitively viable; you're probably better off going with something else.

On a side note, here's to wishing competitive (special clone of defiant) got better distribution, because it's literally outclassed on every single pokemon that received it, yet it has so much potential.

 

[ncrimson]

Scalding them does help in that regard, even if it's not as reliable a way of padding one's defenses as a WoW burn is. It's also notable as being able to carry Knock Off as well, making it an interesting mix of tricks. If you were -really- desperate to surefire debuff, it can have Featherdance bred to it but that'd negate the use of Assault Vest.

Scald/Knock Off/Aqua Jet/(Flash Cannon or Ice Beam) might work well with Assault Vest.

hi, what evs and nature would should be run on this set?

 

[zachmac]

Defog, sticky web, and intimidate have all been mentioned. Swords dance can provide some support in case there's nothing to stat drop, and empoleon has decent priority in aqua jet.

The deal with Defog, Intimidate, and Sticky Web is they won't be on every team, and you can't force your opponent to use them on you. You can take advantage of them, but you can't be dependent of them in order to work. And with Empoleon's attack stat, it is dependent on them.

So even if it wasn't outclassed, it's still an iffy strategy.

 

[Hibiki]

I really hope Empoleon finds a claim to fame in defog support this gen. The 4th gen SubPetaya set was brutal, being stopped only by bulky waters which you ran toxic spikes for... until it got stopped cold by Ferrothorn in 5th gen.

 

[SomeDrunkRockLee]

I really hope Empoleon finds a claim to fame in defog support this gen. The 4th gen SubPetaya set was brutal, being stopped only by bulky waters which you ran toxic spikes for... until it got stopped cold by Ferrothorn in 5th gen.

The problem here is there's just better defog users; the lati@s, M-Scizor, Skarmory, and others are much more competent at reliably clearing hazards. Empoleon is really niche, and I definitely don't think it'll make OU. Maybe a decent UU/RU defogger, depending on where it ends up, but it's generally outclassed.

 

[Jaroda]

This my favorite set on empoleon (offensively)

Empoleon @Petaya Berry
252 sp.atk/252hp/4def
Modest
-Rest
-Sleep Talk
-Hydro Pump
-Ice Beam

For having such a great sp. atk Empoleon gets no moves like C-Mind,N-Plot, Ect. Secondly Empoleon gets no recovery moves other than rest & aqua ring so iv'e put together a set That lets you get a sp.atk boost AND Recovery. The strategy behind this is that after taking a few hits empoleon gets the boost. When you know your in range within a next attack of getting the boost you can then use rest and sleep talk away! Although sleep talk chooses by random you still have a 66.6% chance of getting a damaging move. Whats also great about this is with 252 HP and average defenses Empoleon can take neutral/not very effective hits very well! So all in all iv'e had great success with this set-up for Empoleon!

You are far better off running Agility and Substitute. Much better speed, no randomness, and even allows you to potentially abuse Torrent while beings safe from status. Try a Weakness Policy RestTalk Lapras instead for something similar yet more effective

 

[SergantGold]

The problem here is there's just better defog users; the lati@s, M-Scizor, Skarmory, and others are much more competent at reliably clearing hazards. Empoleon is really niche, and I definitely don't think it'll make OU. Maybe a decent UU/RU defogger, depending on where it ends up, but it's generally outclassed.

Its many resitances and the fact that skarmory's head looks stupid makes it be an option over the rest, especially if you do not want to use your mega stone on scizor. it also provides great utility with Knock Off and SR, and can burn a lot of mons with scald. It will probably be the premier defogger of UU IMO oncethe tier settles down(when Latias, Cube, and Keldeo GTFO)

 

[Photofluid]

Its many resitances and the fact that skarmory's head looks stupid makes it be an option over the rest, especially if you do not want to use your mega stone on scizor. it also provides great utility with Knock Off and SR, and can burn a lot of mons with scald. It will probably be the premier defogger of UU IMO oncethe tier settles down(when Latias, Cube, and Keldeo GTFO)

I am seriously thinking the only reason it is not among the best defogger is because it does not get roost, I have been always assuming it does just until recently, sigh.

 

[SergantGold]

I am seriously thinking the only reason it is not among the best defogger is because it does not get roost, I have been always assuming it does just until recently, sigh.

Reliable recovery is the only thing preventing it from becoming the best Defogger that doesn't take a mega slot, IMO.

 

[Mario With Lasers]

Erm, are we sure Defiant Empoleon is outclassed that much? Bisharp has become a legitimate OU-worthy pokémon and it's partially because of Defiant against Defog users. Can't we seriously work anything from this for Empoleon?

 

[SergantGold]

Erm, are we sure Defiant Empoleon is outclassed that much? Bisharp has become a legitimate OU-worthy pokémon and it's partially because of Defiant against Defog users. Can't we seriously work anything from this for Empoleon?

Empoleon has a lackluster movepool physically coverage wise, and his attack stat isn't quite high enough for it to be considered over Bisharp. if empoleon had competitve that would be another story.....

I JUST noticed he gets Icy Wind, think he could use that in doubles? Not really as a damage doing move but something to slow down pokemon. Perhaps Tyranitar could use that as a partner or some other slightly average speed pokemon?

It would be useful in VGC and doubles, as speed control is very important in Doubles

 

[Jayd]

I used to do mad work with an SD Empoleon in 4th gen (before Defiant obviously) but the metagame has changed a lot. Even back then its power was a problem. It's main niche over other Jetters is its exceptional defensive typing which allows it to get off SD's very easily. Basically you're sacrificing the raw power of the initial Aqua Jet for a much better chance of setting up even two or three SDs. But like I said, power is a problem, especially since its tempting to invest even more in its defensive stats to tank more hits, maybe set up more. I'm really not sure what the optimal balance would be; might be a matter of preference.

 

[Photofluid]

Erm, are we sure Defiant Empoleon is outclassed that much? Bisharp has become a legitimate OU-worthy pokémon and it's partially because of Defiant against Defog users. Can't we seriously work anything from this for Empoleon?

Defiant just happen to provide a huge niche for Bisharp. The major reason makes OU this gen is mainly due to the steel nerf. Also Bisharp is not completely reliant on defiant as a +0 sucker punch is already threatening enough with its 125 Atk and beneficial nature, and it can SD itself anyway(though Empoleon also could). Unfortunately Empoleon really need the +2 to run any physical set with that pitiful 86 Atk.

Empoleon has a lackluster movepool physically coverage wise, and his attack stat isn't quite high enough for it to be considered over Bisharp. if empoleon had competitve that would be another story.....

It would be useful in VGC and doubles, as speed control is very important in Doubles

Even if it gets competitive instead, it does not have the 80 BP STAB priority to spam like Bisharp, and its speed is rather pitiful.

Okay, and everything I post on this thread I simply can't stop myself cursing GF not giving it roost..............

 

[GenXXZ]

Honestly, even this gen poor Empoleon does not have much going for it. It would certainly give Skarmory a run for its money if it had a reliable recovery move, but unfortunately it still hasn't gotten one. Ah well, it will still do some pretty awesome stuff in UU with its now buffed Defog.

 

[SergantGold]

Honestly, even this gen poor Empoleon does not have much going for it. It would certainly give Skarmory a run for its money if it had a reliable recovery move, but unfortunately it still hasn't gotten one. Ah well, it will still do some pretty awesome stuff in UU with its now buffed Defog.

its useable in OU (More useful than gourgeist small if that says anything) and its many resistances and good utility in Knock Off can set it apart from skarmory. unless it gets something like slack off or roost it will need cleric support for it to work effectively.