I would have to say that some things are significantly dropping in usage, particularly Terrakion, Keldeo, Kyurem-B, Latias, and Thundurus-T. Thundurus-T may be outclassed by Thundurus, but Latias got Defog. I don't think the Fairy weakness is as debilitating as originally thought. So why are (specifically) Keldeo, a Pokemon that got suspected last gen, and Terrakion so low?
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Other OverUsed General Discussion
- Thread starter The Grand Babido
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Thundurus-I is worth running over Thundurus-T in my mind purely for the fact that it's the only offensively threatening prankster user. A lot of sets go one way or the other, but leaving a little present in the form of T-wave with +1 priority backed by a speed stat over 350 on anything that KO's it barring ground/electrics makes it an easy revenge kill or a forced switch into something that'll just take damage in the process.
BurningMan
fueled by beer
I am pretty sure that in a couple of months after things have settled more they will be OU again, Latias is actually an awesome Pokemon and really common amongst better players due to the Defog/Healing Wish combo. And Terrakion/keldeo are currently simply outshined by new stronger attackers like Mega Luke etc. they also gained new checks/counters like Talonflame, Aegislash,Azumarill etc. and Fighting isn't that great of a stab anymore overall the metagame wasn't really kind to them. Still they are excellent offensive Pokemon with great stab combos and stats so i doubt they will be in UU for long (Terrakion was actually UU in very early BW too ;) )
As far as Latias goes, I've been looking at the move Reflect Type, is that new to this gen? Don't own X or Y just yet. That move could have some great, if situational, utility, but a primary use will be to completely wall and slowly whittle at anything that relies on leech seed recovery and spore tactics. The tricky part will be getting the switch in before spore is used, so that Latias can use Reflect Type, become grass, get an immunity...
This move is like a defensive/stall Protean that requires planning for different scenario's ahead of time or just being really quick on your feet.
This move is like a defensive/stall Protean that requires planning for different scenario's ahead of time or just being really quick on your feet.
Ojama
Banned deucer.
The XY OU Metagame is very interesting and I like it at lot because there are some stuff we didn't have in Gen 5 that help a lot. I'm thinking about Aegislash, Knock Off being stronger and helps a lot vs Stall, Mega Evolutions, Fairy Type helping against Fighting and Dragon type Pokemon, Assault Vest etc. You guys are wondering why Keldeo and Terrakion are so low in usage, and I personally think that this is a good think. Last Gen, there was no Team without Keldeo +/or Terrakion. Countering them was so difficult that we had to use Landorus-T + Lati@s almost everytime. As for their rarity in the tier, I don't really agree with this statement because people are now realizing / have realized that Keldeo is still extremely powerful and useful as much as Terrakion though I think Keldeo is a bit better in the current Metagame. The difference is that we now have other possibilities than counting on Lati@s/Landorus-T to handle them.
Weathers being nerfed is I think all we asked for this generation. Though at the end of BW2 people realized that Rain/Sun Teams weren't THAT much powerful, at least they know that Sand Teams are still the best. But now they all last max 8 turns with the appropriated item which actually totally destroyed Ninetales and Politoed. MegaCharizard Y has replaced Ninetales but what we called Sun Teams in the previous gen is gone. There is no more Dug + Venusaur + Espeon/Xatu/Spinner which definitely affects our teambuilding process. Instead of the handling a sun Team by using a Weather + X or Y Pokemon, we now have to deal with the weather inducer itself aka Mega Charizard Y that is to me one of the 5 best Mega Evolutions. It's now very interesting the way we now beat "sun teams" because we are no more afraid of Dugtrio which is a very important point because Dugtrio was probably the reason why Sun Teams looked so "broken" in Gen 5 and why Non-ScarfHeatran wasn't considered as a Sun counter. We still use Tyranitar to beat those Teams but this is the same problem as before: it isn't a reliable counter. While we had to be careful when sending in Tyranitar last generation, we now have to be careful with MegaCharizard's Focus Blast. There are also new stuff like MegaCharizard X, MegaGyarados etc to counter those Teams so that's why they are no longer used. As for Rain Teams, this is now purely offensive Teams because we can no longer use Rain Stall with Rain lasting max 8 turns (which means Politoed doesn't have Leftovers). Rain Teams are now improved Gen 4 Rain Dance Teams as there is a Rain inducer. But to close this paragraph about Weather Teams, Sun and Rain Teams are in my opinion dead. Weatherless and Sand Teams are dominating the Metagame and I don't think this will ever change. Sand Teams aren't affected because Sandstorm is not really considered as a "weather". There isn't Teams that take advantage of the Sandstorm like with Rain and Sun Teams. We use both Hippowdon and Tyranitar for a different purpose than setting up the Sandstorm.
Now let's talk a bit about the current Metagame and the most used Teams. Offensive Teams are currently dominating the Metagame though they aren't that offensive. I mean, with Defog, Assault Vest and the many bulky Pokemon we got, being offensive has a different meaning than previous generations. There's always something bulky in those offensive teams, I'm thinking about Aegislash, Conkeldurr, Landorus-T, Rotom-W, Mandibuzz, Zapdos, Mega-Venusaur, Chesnaught and the return of Suicune. With overpowered stuff like Mega-Pinsir, Mega-Lucario and Mega-Charizard X/Y, this is almost impossible to make a Team without using 1 or 2 defensive Pokemon. Knock Off, Assault Vest and especially Defog are the reasons of this new kind of offensive Teams in my opinion. Deo HO aren't that much used because of Defog and Genesect being able to OHKO Deoxys-D. I would like to talk a bit about Knock Off and Defog because those moves are the best things in this generation. The main point is probably the fact that they both are extremely useful against both Stall and Offensive Teams. An Offensive Team beating a Stall with no Stealth Rock up? Pretty much impossible. A Stall stalling without Leftovers? Pretty much impossible. Same goes for the Offense: no Life Orb / Choice Band. Stalling with no Hazards, this is quite a tough thing too.
This is why this Metagame is so interesting because it gives us more options to deal with any playstyles. There are so many things to try and many things actually playable and very good. I don't think I'm wrong when I say that we don't see the same Teams everywhere. With all the options we got and with Rain and Sun Teams gone, I think that the RMT forum will be full of great and original Teams. I still think a few stuff should get banned but this is without a doubt the funniest Metagame I've ever played after DPP.
Weathers being nerfed is I think all we asked for this generation. Though at the end of BW2 people realized that Rain/Sun Teams weren't THAT much powerful, at least they know that Sand Teams are still the best. But now they all last max 8 turns with the appropriated item which actually totally destroyed Ninetales and Politoed. MegaCharizard Y has replaced Ninetales but what we called Sun Teams in the previous gen is gone. There is no more Dug + Venusaur + Espeon/Xatu/Spinner which definitely affects our teambuilding process. Instead of the handling a sun Team by using a Weather + X or Y Pokemon, we now have to deal with the weather inducer itself aka Mega Charizard Y that is to me one of the 5 best Mega Evolutions. It's now very interesting the way we now beat "sun teams" because we are no more afraid of Dugtrio which is a very important point because Dugtrio was probably the reason why Sun Teams looked so "broken" in Gen 5 and why Non-ScarfHeatran wasn't considered as a Sun counter. We still use Tyranitar to beat those Teams but this is the same problem as before: it isn't a reliable counter. While we had to be careful when sending in Tyranitar last generation, we now have to be careful with MegaCharizard's Focus Blast. There are also new stuff like MegaCharizard X, MegaGyarados etc to counter those Teams so that's why they are no longer used. As for Rain Teams, this is now purely offensive Teams because we can no longer use Rain Stall with Rain lasting max 8 turns (which means Politoed doesn't have Leftovers). Rain Teams are now improved Gen 4 Rain Dance Teams as there is a Rain inducer. But to close this paragraph about Weather Teams, Sun and Rain Teams are in my opinion dead. Weatherless and Sand Teams are dominating the Metagame and I don't think this will ever change. Sand Teams aren't affected because Sandstorm is not really considered as a "weather". There isn't Teams that take advantage of the Sandstorm like with Rain and Sun Teams. We use both Hippowdon and Tyranitar for a different purpose than setting up the Sandstorm.
Now let's talk a bit about the current Metagame and the most used Teams. Offensive Teams are currently dominating the Metagame though they aren't that offensive. I mean, with Defog, Assault Vest and the many bulky Pokemon we got, being offensive has a different meaning than previous generations. There's always something bulky in those offensive teams, I'm thinking about Aegislash, Conkeldurr, Landorus-T, Rotom-W, Mandibuzz, Zapdos, Mega-Venusaur, Chesnaught and the return of Suicune. With overpowered stuff like Mega-Pinsir, Mega-Lucario and Mega-Charizard X/Y, this is almost impossible to make a Team without using 1 or 2 defensive Pokemon. Knock Off, Assault Vest and especially Defog are the reasons of this new kind of offensive Teams in my opinion. Deo HO aren't that much used because of Defog and Genesect being able to OHKO Deoxys-D. I would like to talk a bit about Knock Off and Defog because those moves are the best things in this generation. The main point is probably the fact that they both are extremely useful against both Stall and Offensive Teams. An Offensive Team beating a Stall with no Stealth Rock up? Pretty much impossible. A Stall stalling without Leftovers? Pretty much impossible. Same goes for the Offense: no Life Orb / Choice Band. Stalling with no Hazards, this is quite a tough thing too.
This is why this Metagame is so interesting because it gives us more options to deal with any playstyles. There are so many things to try and many things actually playable and very good. I don't think I'm wrong when I say that we don't see the same Teams everywhere. With all the options we got and with Rain and Sun Teams gone, I think that the RMT forum will be full of great and original Teams. I still think a few stuff should get banned but this is without a doubt the funniest Metagame I've ever played after DPP.
This so much
One thing I really like about megas that I hope to see more of in the future is their use to change a pokemon's entire play style. Aggron and Scizor are probably the best examples of this, going from a brute force/revenge attacker to a defensive pokemon
Items like assault vest and weakness policy are really interesting items that open up a lot of possibilities. I also hope we get some more items like these and fewer "when hit by X type attack, raise Y stat once" useless ones
The weakness policy item is a great concept! Really can turn your team around when defeat looks certain. Although I was new and poop last gen there were times where in hindsight I was screaming out for an item as useful as this. Comes at the cost of an item that tops off my HP or grants me more power but at a pretty effective cost some of the time.
The thing I love more from the metagame is that is the metagame where hazards matter less; they are less important than in ADV metagame.
The factors for that is the buff of Defog, the accesibility of strong Rapid Spinners like Excadrill or Mega-Blastoise, and the transition into a more offensive metagame. Toxic Spikes are dissapeared, Spikes are dissapeared, Stealth Rock is still present but while almost all teams carry Stealth Rock and while Talonflame is everywhere, Stealth Rock are less important than in DPP or BW.
The factors for that is the buff of Defog, the accesibility of strong Rapid Spinners like Excadrill or Mega-Blastoise, and the transition into a more offensive metagame. Toxic Spikes are dissapeared, Spikes are dissapeared, Stealth Rock is still present but while almost all teams carry Stealth Rock and while Talonflame is everywhere, Stealth Rock are less important than in DPP or BW.
Meloetta works too. But yeah, there really isn't any really solid switch ins to that combo besides those two, unless you want to just outbulk it. Its much easier to just check things.
In a way, it was worded wrong. He is, realistically, the only mega that should be considered as a sweeper, a wall breaker (I mean, mawile isn't bad but Lucario just outclasses it with the nuke CC and the ability to pull off a sweep after) and most offensive roles. It should've read more towards "The single best offensive mega that you'd have to have some insane justification to pass up".
You would counter MLuc better (and be more useful in general unless you're on stall or something) if you ran 0 hp/0 SpD and maxed out SpA and speed instead. That way you can switch in as it uses NP, then heat wave for the chance at a OHKO before he does anything.
What you mean is directly implying Mega Lucario can NOT be defensively checked, which is the issue.
Plus, the unpredictability really sucks. It has two completely different set and either of it can wreck through your team.
So, yes, if you are aiming to build the "best" team in the current meta, 80% of the time you should find Mega Lucario in it.
True, but that doesn't fit my playstyle. The team I use is more of a semi-stall team, where offensive Tornadus-T just doesn't fit. I agree that it's a better way of dealing with Mega Lucario, but I need Tornadus-T to check other things too. I just love how it completely eats up mixed Aegislash's attacks for example.
Except stall is like a thousand times better this gen with weather being nerfed and stuff like Mega Venusaur, which is a huge boon to stall. Stall has been at its strongest in years, despite the offensive power creep provided by Mega Luke/Pinsir/Zard X, and 65-97.5 bp knock off.
Not a missingno
Banned deucer.
I honestly haven't seen much trouble with TFlame because I use a dual-intimidate lando-t MManectric voltturn core,does anybody else just naturally check/counter TFlame just because of the way their team is built?
Primary
Banned deucer.
I've haven't actually tried out Stall in Generation VI and to be honest, I've never really tried out Stall in general.
However, when I hear people saying things about how stall is getting worse, I just want to ask if that's really true.
However, when I hear people saying things about how stall is getting worse, I just want to ask if that's really true.
- Mega Venusaur is one of the most defensively oriented Pokemon I have seen in a while. Base 80 HP, Base 123 Defense and Base 120 Special Defense are some very impressive defensive stats. Resistance to Water, Electric, Grass, Fighting and Fairy Type moves very crucial resistances that allow Mega Venusaur to straight up wall certain Pokemon such as Azumarill, Keldeo, Rotom-Wash and Breloom. Mega Venusaur is also immune to Spore and Sleeping Powder while also boasting an immunity to Toxic (Spikes), any defensive Pokemon's worst nightmare. I'm sincerely hard-pressed to find reliable answers for this thing sometimes as I can't always be carrying an Alakazam, Talonflame or Mega Pinsir on my team.
- Mandibuzz is a fat vulture. Maybe that's why it's such a great defensive Pokemon. With the buff to Overcoat and Defog and access to Knock Off + Foul Play, Mandibuzz is yet another great defensive addition to the XY Metagame. Mandibuzz is capable of tanking physical hits and then using the opposing opponent's Attack stat against them. Being able to Knock Off an opponent's item and make them less powerful is simply a treasure for Mandibuzz.
- Assault Goodra literally eats up Special Moves for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Here's a calculation to give you an idea:
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 296-350 (77.2 - 91.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKOObviously you should never switch Goodra into Latios like that but this just shows how well AV Goodra can stomach hits. It doesn't hurt that Goodra has a movepool almost as big as its potbelly. - Aegislash is a very nice addition for stall I feel. Aegislash is a great spinblocker being able to solidly damage common rapid spinners such as Forretress, Starmie and Excadrill. It's signature move, King's Shield helps stall teams against physically oriented Pokemon.
Well, the general conclusion is AV goodra is not a stall pokemon. Aegislash is fine, but in a metagame of eq, I try to avoid him. Mandi was always there, people just didn't use her. Venu, though is as fantastic addition.I've haven't actually tried out Stall in Generation VI and to be honest, I've never really tried out Stall in general.
However, when I hear people saying things about how stall is getting worse, I just want to ask if that's really true.
- Mega Venusaur is one of the most defensively oriented Pokemon I have seen in a while. Base 80 HP, Base 123 Defense and Base 120 Special Defense are some very impressive defensive stats. Resistance to Water, Electric, Grass, Fighting and Fairy Type moves very crucial resistances that allow Mega Venusaur to straight up wall certain Pokemon such as Azumarill, Keldeo, Rotom-Wash and Breloom. Mega Venusaur is also immune to Spore and Sleeping Powder while also boasting an immunity to Toxic (Spikes), any defensive Pokemon's worst nightmare. I'm sincerely hard-pressed to find reliable answers for this thing sometimes as I can't always be carrying an Alakazam, Talonflame or Mega Pinsir on my team.
- Mandibuzz is a fat vulture. Maybe that's why it's such a great defensive Pokemon. With the buff to Overcoat and Defog and access to Knock Off + Foul Play, Mandibuzz is yet another great defensive addition to the XY Metagame. Mandibuzz is capable of tanking physical hits and then using the opposing opponent's Attack stat against them. Being able to Knock Off an opponent's item and make them less powerful is simply a treasure for Mandibuzz.
- Assault Goodra literally eats up Special Moves for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Here's a calculation to give you an idea:
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 296-350 (77.2 - 91.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKOObviously you should never switch Goodra into Latios like that but this just shows how well AV Goodra can stomach hits. It doesn't hurt that Goodra has a movepool almost as big as its potbelly.- Aegislash is a very nice addition for stall I feel. Aegislash is a great spinblocker being able to solidly damage common rapid spinners such as Forretress, Starmie and Excadrill. It's signature move, King's Shield helps stall teams against physically oriented Pokemon.
very few pokemon can ko an aegislash from full hp with a non stab eq. have a weakness policy and then you aegislash will wreck any1 who doesnt resist shadowball. any1 who lives now has to play the shadow sneak / pursuit mind game. Aegislash is a mind game enducing monstrosity, and should ALWAYS be considered a relevant threat
After seeing the first week of SPL, so far, I've realized how amazingly well Aegislash fits on not just offensive and balanced teams, but on stall teams as well. Amazing to the point where I'm convinced that Aegislash should be the only Ghost-type stall should run in the current metagame, if you're going to run one at all. The only Ground-type that can OHKO Aegislash in Shield form is LO Sheer Force Landorus. Every other one needs some type of direct boost (Swords Dance, Dragon Dance etc) to one shot it. Aegislash's only weakness is it's lack of recovery, but of course it'd be way too powerful with that. Some of us here used to joke in BW about how Smogon should've brought down Giratina-O from Ubers since stall lacked solid spinblockers, unlike in DPP where Rotom-A had Ghost typing. The closest we had was Jellicent, who wasn't always ideal in every situation.
I look at it like this: Game Freak has basically given us our own version of Giratina-O for OU - instead of Levitate, we have King's Shield with Stance Change to buff defenses and that same King's Shield acts like a combination of Will-o-Wisp and Protect, despite the effect not quite matching up to either of them. Some people may remember in BW that there was a framework that was introduced for Stall just like the one made for Heavy/Hyper Offense. Mixed Aegislash fits into that stall framework as not only a Spinblocker, but a Bulky Offensive Presence (BOP) and it's movepool is just good enough to where you can run a few surprise moves over Shadow Sneak. Every other Ghost has simply been subpar. Jellicent, Trevenant and Gourgeist (Small/Super) are pretty distant seconds.
tl;dr aegislash da bes
I look at it like this: Game Freak has basically given us our own version of Giratina-O for OU - instead of Levitate, we have King's Shield with Stance Change to buff defenses and that same King's Shield acts like a combination of Will-o-Wisp and Protect, despite the effect not quite matching up to either of them. Some people may remember in BW that there was a framework that was introduced for Stall just like the one made for Heavy/Hyper Offense. Mixed Aegislash fits into that stall framework as not only a Spinblocker, but a Bulky Offensive Presence (BOP) and it's movepool is just good enough to where you can run a few surprise moves over Shadow Sneak. Every other Ghost has simply been subpar. Jellicent, Trevenant and Gourgeist (Small/Super) are pretty distant seconds.
tl;dr aegislash da bes
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