Pokémon Mandibuzz

[Kyreth]

If you run your own hazards and screens, you surely won't like Defog...

I generally like sweeping a playing field nice and clean of hazards before I set my own, actually. Defog's just peachy for that, especially on a Pokemon that can swat hazard setters.

Bonus: The Evasion Down means slapping something silly with Hydro Pump or the like is all the sweeter. Empoleon loves it.

 

[13_luckynumber]

I generally like sweeping a playing field nice and clean of hazards before I set my own, actually. Defog's just peachy for that, especially on a Pokemon that can swat hazard setters.

Bonus: The Evasion Down means slapping something silly with Hydro Pump or the like is all the sweeter. Empoleon loves it.

The evasion decrease rarely comes in handy tbh. Normally, you Defog on something you have complete advantage on. If they stay in, you'll win anyway without the evasion decrease. If they switch out to a check/counter, that decrease'll go away.

 

[Kakimori]

Unless they switch in their Mandibuzz counter on the Defog.

 

[ModelT]

So this is the overall Mandibuzz set up that seems to carry any utility at all
Mandibuzz @ Leftovers
Overcoat
+Sp Def or +Def, -Sp. Attack, -Attack if only using Foul Play, or -Speed if using U-Turn.
EV Spreads
252 HP, 252 Sp/Def, 4 Speed (Easy defender set up)
220 HP, 252 Sp/Def, 36 Speed (Leftovers number set up, and for speed creep, assumes lvl. 100)
220 HP, 252 Sp/Def, 36 Attack (Same as above, but for focus on slow U-Turns and helps for damage)
- Defog / Toxic
- Roost
- Foul Play / Knock Off / U-Turn
- Taunt / Whirlwind / Toxic / U-Turn
The EV spreads are all more or less the same, with a focus on HP and your choice of defensive stat (based on party comp). Overcoat, Roost, and Leftovers are the standard to put staying power on this guy, allowing him to ignore damaging weather and spore, and to have staying power otherwise. What makes Mandibuzz the most useful is it's sheer versitility that allows it to fill a myriad of defsive roles in a party, making him a threat and difficult to counter early fight. This, as well as the changes made in Gen 6, will make Mandibuzz a staple of the current OU. The above move list assumes he is either a Defogger or Toxic Stall with a strong secondary role (Denoted Below):

Phazer
-Whirlwind
-Knock Off
This set allows you to throw your opponents around and remove items and poison the lot of them. Good stop to buff set-ups, and can hinder other stall mon by removing lefties

Slow U-Turn
-U-Turn
-Knock Off / Defog
-Toxic / Defog
Similar to the phazing set up, it can jump in front of a hit, do something to hinder the opponent, and slow U-Turn away when you're ready. This is the best set (imo) that allows for Stall AND Defog. With no need for Sp. Attack, this is easier to breed a 0 speed nautre onto (31/31/31/x/31/0) to help the slower U-Turns.

Taunter
- Taunt
- Foul Play
Stop hazard and buff set ups and put the hurt onto any strong physical threat that gets switched in.

Now these are just common sets that allow him to fill roles while still having the option to Defog or Stall (Or both). My personal set up is the Taunter set up with Defog, as it fills in my team nicely (as I already have a phazer and a good Stall, and a mon that knows Knock Off).

 

[13_luckynumber]

Why was Mandibuzz NU last gen? This thing is seriously really really good. It can check top threats like Rotom-W, Heatran, Scizor and tanks hit from most OU like a truck.

 

[ModelT]

1) Defog didn't remove hazards.
2) Knock Off was weaker.
3) Steel used to resist Dark, and was just as common as it is now. (Major points: Excadrill, Lucario, Scissor, Forretress, Ferrothorn. All potentiall powerful threats that Foul Play wasn't too effective against)
4) Overcoat just resisted weather damage.
5) Weather was Forever, and she couldn't hold up as well against a good set-up Weather Offensive/Stall.

Overall, it had less utility, and didn't function in the OU that was then so vastly different from the current Meta.

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

Why was Mandibuzz NU last gen? This thing is seriously really really good. It can check top threats like Rotom-W, Heatran, Scizor and tanks hit from most OU like a truck.

There's also the whole Dark typing, which allows it to resist Aegislash's insane Shadowballs (and other Ghost type moves.) It's the bulkiest Dark type that doesn't get raped by Aegislash's Sacred Sword.

Before Gen VI Mandibuzz was strictly worst than Skarmory, who had a lot more resistances and only slightly smaller physical bulk, but now Mandibuzz is the best Ghost and Dark resistant wall.

 

[LouysG]

This bird is amazing. For all the junk it checks in this physically based meta I'm surprised more people aren't using it on stall. It checks or KO's most physical attackers with foul play, lives forever with roost, phazing seems to be a must, but what do people think, is knock off, toxic, or taunt better in the fourth slot. I can't decide.

 

[PrincessDerpy]

The problem is you can make a solid case for any number of moves in her movepool. Taunt means that opposing clerics and hazard setters can't set up next to you, because Mandi outruns a lot of things at base 80. Knock Off means you remove items so chansey can't play cleric while Mandi is in, and you become a general nuisance to switches everywhere. Toxic allows her to stall better and put a timer on some mons.

And no matter which one you pick, you'll probably run into situations where you wish you had the other.

 

[Debury]

4 moveslot syndrome? Most teams could benefit from;

Removing hazards

Knocking off an item

Healing itself for longevity

Retreating whilst causing damage

Foul playing an opponents boosted physical min to turn its attack against it

Whirl winding problems away

6 decent moves right there

 

[EJ190]

Mandibuzz is cemented itself on my team. Seriously this vulture is incredible-It survived a stone edge from a LANDORUS-T while it was at 60% SURVIVED and roosted in its face. She's the reason i don't worry about talonflame/charx that much since its too risky for them to set on mandy. Wish she didn't have 4mss but foulplay+knockoff is too good to give up...

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

Having too many good moves is not 4MSS... if you have a spinner or other defogger you don't need defog, if you have another phazer you don't need Whirlwind, etc.

4MSS is when four moves is just not enough. See: Mega Banette. It has 165 attack but also Prankster. It needs at least one attacking move to not be total taunt bait and utilize its attack stat. It needs Destiny Bond because without priority DBond there's almost no reason to use it over Sableye. Will-o-wisp is *the* best prankster move (it's why Sableye has any use), crippling physical attackers and dealing passive damage, so you should have that too. So now you have one moveslot left: without Taunt you're susceptible to Taunt; without Pain Split you can't heal yourself; and without protect, you're vulnerable on the turn you mega evolve, since you don't have prankster. This doesn't even mention things that would be nice to have, but you have no room for: like Disable, Magic Coat, Pursuit, a coverage attack, Substitute, or Confuse Ray.

The point is, Mega Banette needs more than four moves to even function well. Mandibuzz doesn't. Consider what your team needs (taunt, phazing, hazard control, a tank, etc) and build its movesetfrom there.

I love this bird by the way. Eat a dick Talonflame, Mandibuzz is the bravest bird.

 

[ModelT]

Yeah, 4mss ISN'T a Mandibuzz problem. You pick what roles she should fill and she can do them swimmingly. I already have a knock off/phazer on my team (Hariyama), so my Mandibuzz has Taunt, Defog, and Foul Play (Link to my team in my sig). If you think you need more, consider grabbing a differnt mon who can fill that extra specific.

I honestly see this as one of the main defensive threats in the OU currently, because of its utiltiy and general versatility. Not to say she's OP by any means.

 

[MKL122788]

Mandibuzz is amazing. I do agree with some of the above posters, the initial post could have more appropriate organization, slashing to work for her. She has what I consider 8 viable moves, 1 is mandatory in roost. I look at her in this manner:

Mandibuzz@Leftovers
Overcoat
Bold/Impish

Potential EV Spreads: 252 HP/various defensive splits/potentially up to 56 speed to outpace creeping Rotom

Roost
Foul Play/Knock Off
Taunt/Whirlwind
Knock Off/Defog/Toxic/U-Turn

Roost - As mentioned above, basically required to allow her to fulfill the role of tank.
Foul Play/Knock Off - Obviously, you need one to not be complete Taunt fodder. I consider Foul Play better than Knock Off in most situations, though I still really love Knock Off. Foul allows her to handle the physically offensive pokemon she tanks and dissuades the common physical setup sweepers. Knock Off is the other option to generally annoy people, crippling offensive threats and defensive ones as well. Item removal is a really important part of the game, and also can make an opponent think twice about switching.
Taunt/Whirlwind - As a fast defender, you don't want to be out-stalled by opposing defenders. I find Taunt incredibly effective for dealing with walls, further preventing setup sweepers. Personally, I find that Taunt forces enough switches that you don't need Whirlwind to pseudo-phaze, but some prefer the guarantee of Whirlwind, especially in conjunction with Knock Off.
Knock Off/Defog/Toxic/U-Turn - This slot is completely up for grabs depending on what your team needs. I prefer Knock Off because it preserves elements of mystery and can cause some mind games. They see Foul Play and assume no Knock Off or the opposite. Both abilities are so valuable for what they give Mandibuzz. If you need a(or another) hazard remover, Defog is a good option. I tend to prefer her with a spinner like Excadrill. Toxic is an option for pure stall. She can out-stall/spread toxic with the combo of Taunt and Toxic. Slow U-Turn is another choice to absorb a hit, and make sure a Sash user is broken while minimizing damage your team takes.

The set I use on my shiny, perfect Mandibuzz(she is basically my BFF) is the first of each of these. The spread I use is 252HP/140DEF/116SPDEF, but that has no real calculations behind it, more just a feel thing. Since I use Knock Off, she is Impish.

Regardless, try some setups and see what works best for you. I have 12 extra 5IV Impish Vullaby with Foul Play and Knock Off that I am happy to give to someone wanting to use her. Just send me a message and I will be happy to help.

 

[Punchshroom]

Mandibuzz is the reason i don't worry about talonflame/charx that much since its too risky for them to set on mandy.

I love this bird by the way. Eat a dick Talonflame, Mandibuzz is the bravest bird.

Well technically, Bulk Up + Taunt Talonflame does set up on Mandibuzz, with Knock Off being the only notable annoyance, though stopping 2 out of 3 Talonflame variants is still pretty good. Just saying~

 

[-NLMRY-]

Well technically, Bulk Up + Taunt Talonflame does set up on Mandibuzz, with Knock Off being the only notable annoyance, though stopping 2 out of 3 Talonflame variants is still pretty good. Just saying~

Foul Play Mandibuzz, which may not be standard, can screw over BU Talonflame. I've faced it a bunch but I don't know whether it's notable having not looked at usage statistics.

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

Well technically, Bulk Up + Taunt Talonflame does set up on Mandibuzz, with Knock Off being the only notable annoyance, though stopping 2 out of 3 Talonflame variants is still pretty good. Just saying~

I've never encountered a Talonflame that had all of Taunt, Bulk Up, and Roost.

Mandibuzz has foul play, and while I don't know the spread for Bulk Up Talonflame:
+2 0 Atk Mandibuzz Foul Play vs. +2 252 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 114-135 (31.6 - 37.5%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

It's screwed if it doesn't have Roost. Taunt, Roost, and Bulk Up is three moves, meaning you only get one of your STABs. Also, even at +6, zero attack investment Talonflame can't OHKO Mandibuzz.

Foul Play Mandibuzz, which may not be standard, can screw over BU Talonflame. I've faced it a bunch but I don't know whether it's notable having not looked at usage statistics.

STAB Foul Play is just too good, it allows Mandibuzz to counter pretty much any non-Dark resistant physical attacker. Without it Mandibuzz is just too passive IMO, even if it's a good disruptor.

 

[-NLMRY-]

I've never encountered a Talonflame that had all of Taunt, Bulk Up, and Roost.

Mandibuzz has foul play, and while I don't know the spread for Bulk Up Talonflame:
+2 0 Atk Mandibuzz Foul Play vs. +2 252 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 114-135 (31.6 - 37.5%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

It's screwed if it doesn't have Roost. Taunt, Roost, and Bulk Up is three moves, meaning you only get one of your STABs. Also, even at +6, zero attack investment Talonflame can't OHKO Mandibuzz.

The set I run is Careful with 208 HP, 240 SpDEF, 60 Speed EV's (set can be attributed to the Talonflame thread, I can't remember who posted it nor can I speak to the specifics of the EV spread) and whose attacks are Brave Bird, Bulk Up, Roost, and Taunt. It works wonders when it can set up, which it does on things like Ferrothorn, Aegislash (physical variants), and a host of things it shouldn't be able to set up on (I've found, at least). It's TF's best set IMO. I don't know what BU variant you've faced but Taunt+Roost are essential to its success. Taunt just stops too many things to give it up, and obviously BU used in conjunction with Roost makes the set up that much easier.

 

[Punchshroom]

Foul Play Mandibuzz, which may not be standard, can screw over BU Talonflame. I've faced it a bunch but I don't know whether it's notable having not looked at usage statistics.

0 Atk Mandibuzz Foul Play vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 114-135 (31.6 - 37.5%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Bulk Up Talonflames typically run 0 Attack EVs, since its ability to boost more than once or twice makes up for the lack in EVs. This turns Foul Play into a 4-5HKO after Leftovers, which is why Knock Off is an annoyance, but you need both Knock Off AND Foul Play to even begin worrying Talonflame. Remember Bulk Up's defense boost negates any Attack boosts Foul Play takes advantage of.

I've never encountered a Talonflame that had all of Taunt, Bulk Up, and Roost.

It's screwed if it doesn't have Roost. Taunt, Roost, and Bulk Up is three moves, meaning you only get one of your STABs. Also, even at +6, zero attack investment Talonflame can't OHKO Mandibuzz.

You got almost all of it right, the one move missing from the equation is Brave Bird. BU Talon doesn't need Flare Blitz because only a very limited amount of Steels can actually hurt it, and mono-Flying is better than mono-Fire due to the lack of immunity, not to mention Gale Wings.

STAB Foul Play is just too good, it allows Mandibuzz to counter pretty much any non-Dark resistant physical attacker. Without it Mandibuzz is just too passive IMO, even if it's a good disruptor.

Yeah Foul Play is really good on Mandibuzz (too good if you ask me~). I've seen stall users run both Knock Off and Foul Play on their Mandibuzz with no Toxic or Taunt, and it still does its job fantastically.

 

[-NLMRY-]

0 Atk Mandibuzz Foul Play vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 114-135 (31.6 - 37.5%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Bulk Up Talonflames typically run 0 Attack EVs, since its ability to boost more than once or twice makes up for the lack in EVs. This turns Foul Play into a 4-5HKO after Leftovers, which is why Knock Off is an annoyance, but you need both Knock Off AND Foul Play to even begin worrying Talonflame. Remember Bulk Up's defense boost negates any Attack boosts Foul Play takes advantage of.

You know, that's a very good point that never occurred to me, lol, it seems so obvious though.

Also:

Also, even at +6, zero attack investment Talonflame can't OHKO Mandibuzz.

+6 0 Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 301-355 (70.9 - 83.7%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
(301, 304, 309, 312, 315, 319, 322, 327, 330, 333, 337, 340, 343, 348, 351, 355)

So while you may be right that +6 TF can't OHKO Buzz 100% of the time, if it came down to a +6 TF Brave Bird vs. a Roosting Mandibuzz, BB has 24 max PP and Roost 16, so I think TF wins.

 

[Punchshroom]

+6 0 Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 301-355 (70.9 - 83.7%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
(301, 304, 309, 312, 315, 319, 322, 327, 330, 333, 337, 340, 343, 348, 351, 355)

So while you may be right that +6 TF can't OHKO Buzz, if it came down to a +6 TF Brave Bird vs. a Roosting Mandibuzz, BB has 24 max PP and Roost 16, so I think TF wins.

Never mind PP wars, the fact is that Talonflame can outdamage Roost by at least freaking 20%, so if Mandibuzz has ~84% during the first Brave Bird, Mandibuzz will die to the 2nd Brave Bird (70.9 - 83.7%) if it's not killed by max damage first. Oh, and Taunt.

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

So while you may be right that +6 TF can't OHKO Buzz, if it came down to a +6 TF Brave Bird vs. a Roosting Mandibuzz, BB has 24 max PP and Roost 16, so I think TF wins.

Roost also only heals half. Mandibuzz can't tank a +6 Talonflame, at all, or deal any good damage with Foul Play.

At any rate, Swords Dance or Choice band sets are way, way more common (Bulk Up being 8.3%, Taunt not even appearing), and I've never seen Bulk Up and Taunt on the same set anywhere on the ladder (though that's just my experience.)

 

[-NLMRY-]

Never mind PP wars, the fact is that Talonflame can outdamage Roost by at least freaking 20%, so if Mandibuzz has ~84% during the first Brave Bird, Mandibuzz will die to the 2nd Brave Bird (70.9 - 83.7%) if it's not killed by max damage first. Oh, and Taunt.

Lol, you understand the point exactly, the calc was for the fun of it. I brought it up because he said that +6 TF couldn't OHKO, which doesn't matter as we both have shown.

Roost also only heals half. Mandibuzz can't tank a +6 Talonflame, at all, or deal any good damage with Foul Play.

At any rate, Swords Dance or Choice band sets are way, way more common (Bulk Up being 8.3%, Taunt not even appearing), and I've never seen Bulk Up and Taunt on the same set anywhere on the ladder (though that's just my experience.)

At any rate, I don't think it matters which sets are common (beyond building your team of course). I think that the set I posted is criminally underrated. It gets a lot of opportunity to set up and destroys things when it does. But this is the Buzz thread so I'll stop here.

 

[stonehenge22]

What would be a good EV spread for Impish Mandibuzz with Rocky Helmet? How about moveset? Also, is Rocky Helmet a better item to use than Leftovers? Anyhow, I can't find much data on Rocky Helmet ones: most players use Leftovers. Please let me know what you think. Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[kizux]

What would be a good EV spread for Impish Mandibuzz with Rocky Helmet? How about moveset? Also, is Rocky Helmet a better item to use than Leftovers? Anyhow, I can't find much data on Rocky Helmet ones: most players use Leftovers. Please let me know what you think. Thanks in advance for your help.

I run my Impish Mandibuzz with EVs: 240 HP / 216 Def / 52 Spe (as said before in this thread). It can switch with no problem into a physical attacker and it can outspeed slow hazard setters. I'm not a fan of using Leftovers with pokemons that already have some sort of recovery (in the case of Mandibuzz: Roost) and there's always another pokemon in my team that benefits more from it. It really depends on your point of view and team.