Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (B- and C+ Pokemon discussion)

[Molk]

After a bit of testing, i think i'm going to nominate Staraptor for at least C rank (its at least up for QC and i'd be surprised if it got rejected lol). Staraptor is a pretty effective and underrated wallbreaker/holepuncher imo, the combination of that good base 120 Attack stat, high base power STABs in Brave Bird and Double Edge, and Staraptor's Reckless ability (powers up Brave Bird and Double Edge significantly, equivalent of like a plate).makes brutally hard to switch into, with even some Pokemon that resist its moves end up being 2HKO'd after Stealth Rock damage simply because of how brutalizingly powerful its attacks are (outdamages CB haxorus assuming same nature iirc). Flying is a pretty underrated offensive typing too imo (as shown by Talonflame's priority BBs being so potent), which just increases Staraptor's potential as a threatening Pokemon. Of course, as a powerful offensive Flying-type, Staraptor will inevitably be compared with the previously mentioned Talonflame, but i think Staraptor has enough of a niche over talonbird to deserve a spot on the list between its aforementioned raw power (Staraptor is more of a wallbreaker or holepuncher as mentioning before, while talonflame is a revenge killer and cleaner imo, so they serve different roles to an extent) and the fact that Staraptor can easily break through Pokemon that are used to check Talonflame such as Rotom-W, Heatran, and Tyranitar thanks to Double Edge and Close Combat, respectively. Speaking of that, another good use of Staraptor is actually as a teammate for Talonflame. Staraptor's raw wallbreaking abilities and the fact that the two pokemon lure in similar Pokemon as checks makes them good offensive partners, as Staraptor can wear down or outright KO most, if not all of Talonflame's common checks, and once Staraptor is finished, Talonflame will usually be able to just go to town and clean up what remains, a pretty good partnership as long as the team has a way to get rid of Stealth Rock imo. Of course, even aside from the competition from tflame, Staraptor does have its flaws, most notably its Stealth Rock weakness and the fact that its main STAB moves do recoil, Star usually doesn't last very long once it gets into the match, although it should usually take down at least one Pokemon with it. Not to mention that despite how powerful Staraptor is, it still struggles against a (very) common OU threat: Aegislash, requiring that it be (although CB brave bird can do like 40% iirc lol). So can't see the bird going higher than B at the moment. But despite this, i think that Staraptor definitely deserves a spot on the list for the reasons mentioned.

Lastly, to show you guys just how hard this thing hits i've put some damage calculations below this post against some bulky Pokemon/Pokemon that resist Brave Bird, as well as some comparison calcs against Talonflame to show just how big Staraptor's advantage is when it comes to power.

Hippowdon:

252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 235-277 (55.9 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 151-178 (35.9 - 42.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Rotom-W:

252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 252-297 (82.8 - 97.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 126-148 (41.4 - 48.6%) -- 15.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 81-96 (26.6 - 31.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Heatran:

252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 174-205 (45 - 53.1%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 386-456 (100 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 111-132 (28.7 - 34.1%) -- 2.3% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Tyranitar:

252+ Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 748-884 (185.1 - 218.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 168-198 (41.5 - 49%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 108-128 (26.7 - 31.6%) -- 51.2% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock

Aegislash

252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 128-151 (39.5 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

(Talonflame obviously outdamages here lol)

 

[Colonel M]

Why stop at C good sir? Seems at the least B. Maybe B- at worst.

 

[rachet67]

After a bit of testing, i think i'm going to nominate Staraptor for C rank (its at least up for QC and i'd be surprised if it got rejected lol). Staraptor is a pretty effective and underrated wallbreaker/holepuncher imo, the combination of that good base 120 Attack stat, high base power STABs in Brave Bird and Double Edge, and Staraptor's Reckless ability (powers up Brave Bird and Double Edge significantly, equivalent of like a plate).makes brutally hard to switch into, with even some Pokemon that resist its moves end up being 2HKO'd after Stealth Rock damage simply because of how brutalizingly powerful its attacks are (outdamages CB haxorus assuming same nature iirc). Flying is a pretty underrated offensive typing too imo (as shown by Talonflame's priority BBs being so potent), which just increases Staraptor's potential as a threatening Pokemon. Of course, as a powerful offensive Flying-type, Staraptor will inevitably be compared with the previously mentioned Talonflame, but i think Staraptor has enough of a niche over talonbird to deserve a spot on the list between its aforementioned raw power (Staraptor is more of a wallbreaker or holepuncher as mentioning before, while talonflame is a revenge killer and cleaner imo, so they serve different roles to an extent) and the fact that Staraptor can easily break through Pokemon that are used to check Talonflame such as Rotom-W, Heatran, and Tyranitar thanks to Double Edge and Close Combat, respectively. Speaking of that, another good use of Staraptor is actually as a teammate for Talonflame. Staraptor's raw wallbreaking abilities and the fact that the two pokemon lure in similar Pokemon as checks makes them good offensive partners, as Staraptor can wear down or outright KO most, if not all of Talonflame's common checks, and once Staraptor is finished, Talonflame will usually be able to just go to town and clean up what remains, a pretty good partnership as long as the team has a way to get rid of Stealth Rock imo. Of course, even aside from the competition from tflame, Staraptor does have its flaws, most notably its Stealth Rock weakness and the fact that its main STAB moves do recoil, Star usually doesn't last very long once it gets into the match, although it should usually take down at least one Pokemon with it. Not to mention that despite how powerful Staraptor is, it still struggles against a (very) common OU threat: Aegislash, requiring that it be (although CB brave bird can do like 40% iirc lol). So can't see the bird going higher than C+ at the moment. But despite this, i think that Staraptor definitely deserves a spot on the list for the reasons mentioned.

Lastly, to show you guys just how hard this thing hits i've put some damage calculations below this post against some bulky Pokemon/Pokemon that resist Brave Bird, as well as some comparison calcs against Talonflame to show just how big Staraptor's advantage is when it comes to power.

Hippowdon:

252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 235-277 (55.9 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 151-178 (35.9 - 42.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Rotom-W:

252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 252-297 (82.8 - 97.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 126-148 (41.4 - 48.6%) -- 15.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 81-96 (26.6 - 31.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Heatran:

252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 174-205 (45 - 53.1%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 386-456 (100 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 111-132 (28.7 - 34.1%) -- 2.3% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Tyranitar:

252+ Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 748-884 (185.1 - 218.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 168-198 (41.5 - 49%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 108-128 (26.7 - 31.6%) -- 51.2% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock

Aegislash

252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 128-151 (39.5 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

(Talonflame obviously outdamages here lol)

Staraptor has slightly underwhelming speed, which is compounded by its extreme frailty. Its attack (120), while still pretty good is no longer as game breaking as it used to be, especially on a poke that can't take any hit. Its band set is easily revenge killed because of its speed and its scarf set is too weak. Additionally it doesn't get stab on close combat, and tons of common pokemon (old ones such as skarmory, gliscor if toxic orb is activated, landorus-t and new ones such as aegislash) can completely wall it. This is not to mention that pretty much any faster pokemon can easily revenge kill it, or set up on it. Because it can be revenge killed easily it will be forced out often, which compounds its stealth rock weakness, and allows monsters like keldeo or mega lucario do deal heavy damage to the switch in or attempt to set up in lucario's case. Its reliance on recoil moves, coupled with its stealth rock weakness, means that it will not survive for long, and will kill itself if it keeps attacking counters that it can't hurt. The only thing it has over talonflame is the ability to hit heatran and tyranitar.

Staraptor was D rank last generation and what has made it any more viable than last gen? Absolutely nothing introduced gen 6 has made its life any easier. It got nothing new, and there are new counters (aegislash) as well as checks (thundurus-i, genesect, scarf excadrill, hell even talonflame). For this reason, I think it should be D rank again. At this point its really much more a liability than its worth, and there's really almost no reason to use it in OU at all anymore.

 

[Punchshroom]

Talonflame made teams scramble for good Flying-resists, but Staraptor takes advantage of this by smacking almost everything Talonflame does not. The big 3 Talon counters, Rotom-W, Tyranitar, and Heatran, all risk getting their asses handed to them if Staraptor selects the right move; you may even be cheeky and use Normal Gem to bluff a Choice set. Even if Staraptor didn't get anything new, Flying STAB is still very effective at breaking down teams, and the better hazard removal in this Gen made life easier for the bird too. Probably what made Staraptor a bit more viable in this Gen is that it finally got the perfect partner to take full advantage of its wallbreaking capabilities. It does face stiff competition from Talonflame and Mega-Pinsir as Flying-type attackers, but I wouldn't dismiss it as a threat since CB Staraptor does hits harder than Mega-Pinsir.

Hide

That said, I'd rather use Nasty Plot Togekiss to do the whole "weaken Talonflame counters" job.

 

[MagikaripIsOP]

Did anyone mention scarf staraptor outdamages banded talonflame? lol

252+ Atk Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Rotom-W: 86-102 (28.3 - 33.6%) -- 0.3% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 81-96 (26.6 - 31.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

 

[114]

Yes I've used staraptor a lot as a partner to either pinsir or talonflame on offensive teams and its great. It's hard to switch in safely, but often time it's a good lead. Very good to use early game, especially affter your first pokemon dies so it can switch in safely. I support B-

The one consistent stop is aegislash though.

Staraptor was D rank last generation and what has made it any more viable than last gen? Absolutely nothing introduced gen 6 has made its life any easier. It got nothing new, and there are new counters (aegislash) as well as checks (thundurus-i, genesect, scarf excadrill, hell even talonflame). For this reason, I think it should be D rank again. At this point its really much more a liability than its worth, and there's really almost no reason to use it in OU at all anymore.

This is because this generation more things are viable in general (aka a better meta lol). Last gen was dominated by rain, sun, sand, and dragons. Now that there are less restrictions on team building, more things can thrive.

A lot of pokemon, even with their new boosts, would still be useless last gen because team building sucked. Note how a lot of the top teams in the upper ladder were very similar, or very "stock". This time people have top tier teams that consistently use C and B tier pokemon, e.g mega heracross, mega ampharos, craudaunt, bisharp, staraptor, darmanitan etc... While staraptor didn't gain anything necessarily, besides being a good team mate for talon, the meta is simply better (and more fun).

 

[Colonel M]

Also consider how the meta game was when Staraptor splashed in again from OU. Excadrill as a spinner did not exist in OU. Defog, another critical aspect of Staraptor's viability, only removed entry hazards on your side of the field. Staraptor is very prone to passive damage and Stealth Rock being iffy to remove made it harder.

 

[Punchshroom]

Did anyone mention scarf staraptor outdamages banded talonflame? lol

252+ Atk Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Rotom-W: 86-102 (28.3 - 33.6%) -- 0.3% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 81-96 (26.6 - 31.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 84-99 (27.63 - 32.56%) -- possible 4HKO

Wrong calc, but yeah Scarf Reckless Raptor does hit marginally harder than Choice Band Talonflame provided they are both Adamant, but Staraptor does not have priority Brave Bird, so it should still opt for Jolly lest stuff like +1 Jolly Charizard X and Scarf Genesect outspeed it. Talonflame can also boost its stats, letting it weaken defensive teams much better.

 

[Clair]

Yeah, there are a number of factors that make Staraptor more viable this generation. The lack of weather-boosted offensive threats is one, the ease of removing Stealth Rock is another, but the main one is obviously the availability of Talonflame as a partner in crime. I'd agree with C rank, B- is pushing it though imo.

 

[Kawaii Kyouko]

He was just wondering if it would ever OHKO, which it won't. No need to be snarky.

Mh, sorry, it looked like as if it was an argument against feral.

 

[rachet67]

Yes I've used staraptor a lot as a partner to either pinsir or talonflame on offensive teams and its great. It's hard to switch in safely, but often time it's a good lead. Very good to use early game, especially affter your first pokemon dies so it can switch in safely. I support B-

The one consistent stop is aegislash though.



This is because this generation more things are viable in general (aka a better meta lol). Last gen was dominated by rain, sun, sand, and dragons. Now that there are less restrictions on team building, more things can thrive.

A lot of pokemon, even with their new boosts, would still be useless last gen because team building sucked. Note how a lot of the top teams in the upper ladder were very similar, or very "stock". This time people have top tier teams that consistently use C and B tier pokemon, e.g mega heracross, mega ampharos, craudaunt, bisharp, staraptor, darmanitan etc... While staraptor didn't gain anything necessarily, besides being a good team mate for talon, the meta is simply better (and more fun).

I don't see how the weather nerf helped staraptor at all. Before the weather nerf Staraptor couldn't take a reasonably strong neutral hit and killed itself within a few turns and that stands true post weather nerf as well. Its not like any pokemon needed rain boosted hydro pumps to take staraptor out. Mega Heracross, Mega Ampharos, Craudaunt, and Busharp all got something new that has made them more viable. Darmanitan has always been a decent choice. They really shouldn't be compared to Staraptor.

Also consider how the meta game was when Staraptor splashed in again from OU. Excadrill as a spinner did not exist in OU. Defog, another critical aspect of Staraptor's viability, only removed entry hazards on your side of the field. Staraptor is very prone to passive damage and Stealth Rock being iffy to remove made it harder.

This is true, but rapid spin was on most teams that used Staraptor last gen as well. The lack of stealth rock doesn't change that it will still kill itself (while the opponent doesn't even need to attack) after using recoil moves several times against dedicated counters such as skarmory, aegislash, landorus-t, and gliscor (if toxic orb is already active).

 

[Yilx]

You do realize that Darmanitan has almost the same flaws as Raptor does but you're saying it's better?

Also,

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 188 Def Landorus-T: 220-259 (57.5 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Gliscor: 237-279 (66.9 - 78.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Not exactly counters IMHO

 

[rachet67]

You do realize that Darmanitan has almost the same flaws as Raptor does but you're saying it's better?

Also,

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 188 Def Landorus-T: 220-259 (57.5 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Gliscor: 237-279 (66.9 - 78.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Not exactly counters IMHO

Your Gliscor calc is incorrect, as it will have toxic heal, which is double the leftovers recovery, and will use protect to stall out a turn. So basically it should have 4 turns of leftovers recovery. Although Adamant can help Staraptor can break past a few of its counters, Starptor has other issues it needs to worry about if you run adamant, such as being revenge killed by any pokemon sitting at 89 and higher. Landorus is still 2HKO'd most the time by brave bird for jolly, so I guess I overestimated Landorus-t. Want to add that even though ferrothorn is 2HKO'd by staraptor, its basically a death sentence for it with iron barbs.


And I am saying Darmanitan is better than Staraptor. There's a reason Darmanitan was B- last gen, unlike Starptors placement in D. Darmanitan is sitting at 140 attack, and with better coverage (fire, fighting, and rock) over Staraptors (flying, normal, and fighting). The only thing that Starptor can really take out more easily is Mega Venesaur. Darmanitan doesn't have such a reliance on recoil moves so it can stay alive a little longer. Darmanitan doesn't have great bulk, but its decent HP stat means it can take a neutral hit and live, unlike Staraptor.

 

[Molk]

Your Gliscor calc is incorrect, as it will have toxic heal, which is double the leftovers recovery, and will use protect to stall out a turn. So basically it should have 4 turns of leftovers recovery. Although Adamant can help Staraptor can break past a few of its counters, Starptor has other issues it needs to worry about if you run adamant, such as being revenge killed by any pokemon sitting at 89 and higher. Landorus is still 2HKO'd most the time by brave bird for jolly, so I guess I overestimated Landorus-t. Want to add that even though ferrothorn is 2HKO'd by staraptor, its basically a death sentence for it with iron barbs.


And I am saying Darmanitan is better than Staraptor. There's a reason Darmanitan was B- last gen, unlike Starptors placement in D. Darmanitan is sitting at 140 attack, and with better coverage (fire, fighting, and rock) over Staraptors (flying, normal, and fighting). The only thing that Starptor can really take out more easily is Mega Venesaur. Darmanitan doesn't have such a reliance on recoil moves so it can stay alive a little longer. Darmanitan doesn't have great bulk, but its decent HP stat means it can take a neutral hit and live, unlike Staraptor.

Even considering the four turns of Leftovers recovery that Poison Heal provides, Staraptor is still able to run through Gliscor quite handily. The Poison Heal recovery isn't enough to let Gliscor avoid the 2HKO from Staraptor, even with Protect to get a bit of extra recovery, and in what could be called a worst case scenario (No rocks up on Gliscor's side, no prior damage on Gliscor, toxic orb is already activated). The replay can be seen here: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/customgame-78108259. Admittedly, Staraptor had an Adamant nature here, but even with a Jolly nature in this worst case Scenario (Toxic Orb already activated, no prior damage on Gliscor, no Stealth Rock), Gliscor can only survive two Brave Birds from Jolly CB if Staraptor just happens to get the minimum damage roll both times, and even then its going to be pretty beaten up by the end of it (against the standard spread at least).

Also:

Darmanitan doesn't have great bulk, but its decent HP stat means it can take a neutral hit and live, unlike Staraptor.

252+ Atk Snorlax Body Slam vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Darmanitan: 220-259 (62.6 - 73.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Snorlax Body Slam vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Staraptor: 181-214 (58 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Just going to point out that despite the higher HP stat, Staraptor actually takes neutral physical hits better than Darmanitan can, making that point moot. Admittedly though Darmanitan has the advantage when it comes to taking special hits, but only by a small amount (Staraptor got a +10 special defense buff this generation).

 

[Pyritie]

2. 252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 235-277 (75.5 - 89%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 235-277 (68.3 - 80.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Its over, everyone go home, scizor is RU now.

 

[silenced]

And I am saying Darmanitan is better than Staraptor. There's a reason Darmanitan was B- last gen, unlike Starptors placement in D. Darmanitan is sitting at 140 attack, and with better coverage (fire, fighting, and rock) over Staraptors (flying, normal, and fighting). The only thing that Starptor can really take out more easily is Mega Venesaur. Darmanitan doesn't have such a reliance on recoil moves so it can stay alive a little longer. Darmanitan doesn't have great bulk, but its decent HP stat means it can take a neutral hit and live, unlike Staraptor.

The big difference between the 2 last gen can be put down to sun support. Simply put, sun boosted, LO, SF, STAB Flare Blitz was a big ask to take head on, and it didn't help it could still hit most anti-weather mons (politoed excluded) extremely hard if not KO with a coverage move. This gen there is minimal sun support unless you want to take advantage of Zard Y's sun rather than just using it as a nuke. Flying STAB is pretty high up there based on what I see though, and while B- might be too high, its a notable niche to have a flying type which can get around that which normally tanks flying STAB

 

[Cherub Agent]

I've been playing with staraptor recently after Molk made his post with a double berd team, and it's really a pretty fucking amazing pokemon. Here's a replay of what happens pretty often: it's pretty much a textbook example of how staraptor lures and annihilates everything that can take on band talonflame

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-78115605

(one thing rachet67 is right about is that apparently scarf excadrill DOES exist and beat staraptor :O)

the power is just astronomical, i use jolly band with BB, DE, UT and CC, and it literally has like 0 safe switchins. the double band brave bird core is really really good, one just smashes everything, while the other can be used to clean up late game.

the defog buff was ecellent for this pokemon, and you now have excadrill as well (best spinner) if you want to keep rocks off your side of the field. Pokemon like Thundurus are also OHKOd by Jolly Brave Bird like over 90% of the time after SR, just to give an example of its power.

 

[TheWildStaraptor]

Just commenting that I don't see Starmie here. I could actually make a case for it being in tier A or so - It gets amazing coverage, great speed and special attack, and can OHKO lots of things because of that coverage. There's not a large amount of safe switch-ins - Ferrothorn, Aegislash maybe, and scarf. The other great benefit of using Starmie is that it doesn't require stat boosts or support - Just switch it in and start killing. Just my two cents, but personally I love him.

 

[Ropeburn]

Just commenting that I don't see Starmie here. I could actually make a case for it being in tier A or so - It gets amazing coverage, great speed and special attack, and can OHKO lots of things because of that coverage. There's not a large amount of safe switch-ins - Ferrothorn, Aegislash maybe, and scarf. The other great benefit of using Starmie is that it doesn't require stat boosts or support - Just switch it in and start killing. Just my two cents, but personally I love him.

The fact that Starmie has difficulty with the majority of A rank and S rank doesn't bode well for it. As a hazard cleaner, it's got competition by Excadrill and Latias. As a fast water pokemon, it's got competition by Greninja and Keldeo. I've tried him out, and I'm more fond of the bulky set. It can take a brave bird from Talonflame and do about 94% damage with Scald or KO with Surf/Hydro Pump (Surf has only a 25% to ohko)

It's not very good, honestly.

 

[SJCrew]

On the other hand, Starmie is one of the few offensive Pokemon capable of checking Mega Lucario well, and it hasn't disappointed at that.

Analytic Life Orb should be the only way to go now; that's the only set that is both effective and unique for it. The above post just proves how laughable its defensive sets are in this meta, citing that just barely surviving Brave Bird is a perk in its favor. Consider also that defensive sets have no hope of spinning against or beating Aegislash. Even a lucky burn won't stop its Shadow Ball onslaughts.

 

[Oranos]

I will throw my support behind Staraptor as a B- level poke, it has been an all star on many of my teams for ages, people consistently underestimate it's raw power. The amount of pokemon it can 1HKO is impressive, although it is limited by obvious longevity issues. I see no reason it wouldn't be a B- rank here

 

[Ropeburn]

On the other hand, Starmie is one of the few offensive Pokemon capable of checking Mega Lucario well, and it hasn't disappointed at that.

Analytic Life Orb should be the only way to go now; that's the only set that is both effective and unique for it. The above post just proves how laughable its defensive sets are in this meta, citing that just barely surviving Brave Bird is a perk in its favor. Consider also that defensive sets have no hope of spinning against or beating Aegislash. Even a lucky burn won't stop its Shadow Ball onslaughts.

I literally said at the bottom of my post "It's not very good, honestly". I merely said I preferred it to everything else. I'm not terribly fond of the analytical set, because Aegislash walls it to hell and back, Greninja gets Protean and U-turn, and Brave Bird off a CB Talonflame is an OHKO.

 

[ShadowMarioGalaxy64]

Staraptor is now, without any doubts, the best Normal-Flying Type (thanks to Togekiss now a Fairy-Type). Its longevity is its biggest issue, as being Stealth Rock weak, reliance on Recoil Moves, and no way around Aegislash are pretty big. On the other hand, it is incredibly powerful and difficult to switch into. Close Combat/Double Edge/Brave Bird/U-Turn is no walk in the part to tank. It does have issues, yes (that speed...), but with a little support, it can be one of the most devastating Pokemon to face against. I'd personally give it a C rank, though.

 

[Always!]

Staraptor is now, without any doubts, the best Normal-Flying Type (thanks to Togekiss now a Fairy-Type). Its longevity is its biggest issue, as being Stealth Rock weak, reliance on Recoil Moves, and no way around Aegislash are pretty big. On the other hand, it is incredibly powerful and difficult to switch into. Close Combat/Double Edge/Brave Bird/U-Turn is no walk in the part to tank. It does have issues, yes (that speed...), but with a little support, it can be one of the most devastating Pokemon to face against. I'd personally give it a C rank, though.

That speed....

Isn;t too bad actually. I agree with the C rank part, but it still is useful Wall-Smacking after some prior damage has been done.

Also, I am interested with it's ability to weaken the TFlame Counters, that could be extremely useful for teams that use him for lategame sweeping.

 

[Aragorn the King]

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 235-277 (68.3 - 80.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Its over, everyone go home, scizor is RU now.

He just asked if it OHKO's. It doesn't.