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Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (B- and C+ Pokemon discussion)

Discussion in 'OverUsed' started by ginganinja, Dec 26, 2013.

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  1. ginganinja

    ginganinja How do I live? How do I breathe?
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Apr 13, 2009
    OU Viability Ranking Thread (thanks PKGaming)

    Welcome to the official OU Viability Rankings topic. You should know the drill by now; In this thread, we as a community will rank every single usable Pokemon into "tiers." In this thread, you're encouraged to post your thoughts and opinions on the various Pokemon that are usable in OU and what tier they should fall under. It's about time the OU subforum joined in on the action!

    The general idea of the topic is to rank each OU pokemon under "rankings" that go in descending order. Since this is a general tier list, everything is lumped together. There won't be any segregation between offense & defense threats.

    • EX: Garchomp can be ranked in A tier as an offensive threat, Forretress can be ranked under A as supportive threat and Skarmory can be can also be ranked in B tier as a defensive threat. These are just examples.
    Note that the overall tier list is in no particular order.


    PRELIMINARY XY OU Ranking tier list V.1

    (Subject to change & in alphabetical order for now!)

    S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame with little support, and Pokemon who can support other Pokemon with very little opportunity cost ("free turns"). Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths.

    [​IMG] Aegislash
    [​IMG] Charizard (Mega-Y)
    [​IMG] Charizard (Mega-X)
    [​IMG] Pinsir (Mega)
    [​IMG] Thundurus-I

    A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame, but require some support or have some flaws that prevents them from doing this consistently. Supporting Pokemon in this rank may give opponents free turns or cannot create free turns easily themselves, but can still do their job most of the time

    A+ Rank

    [​IMG] Deoxys-D
    [​IMG] Deoxys-S
    [​IMG] [​IMG] Garchomp / Garchomp (Mega)
    [​IMG] Heatran
    [​IMG] Kyurem-B
    [​IMG] Landorus-I
    [​IMG] Landorus-T
    [​IMG] Manaphy
    [​IMG] Rotom-W
    [​IMG] Talonflame
    [​IMG] Tyranitar (Mega)
    [​IMG] Venusaur (Mega)

    A Rank

    [​IMG] Azumarill
    [​IMG] Dragonite
    [​IMG] Excadrill
    [​IMG] Gengar
    [​IMG] Greninja
    [​IMG] Gyarados (Mega)
    [​IMG] Keldeo
    [​IMG] Latias
    [​IMG] Latios
    [​IMG] Mandibuzz
    [​IMG] Mawile (Mega)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] Scizor / Scizor (Mega)
    [​IMG] Tyranitar

    A- Rank

    [​IMG] Clefable
    [​IMG] Conkeldurr
    [​IMG] Gyarados
    [​IMG] Hippowdon
    [​IMG] Mamoswine
    [​IMG] Skarmory
    [​IMG] Terrakion

    B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who cannot sweep through or wall significant portions of the metagame, but can properly fulfill a given offensive/defensive niche. Support Pokemon in this category have flaws that prevent them from doing their job or are setup bait for dangerous sweepers. Pokemon who are partially outperformed by a Pokemon in A or S Rank, but are otherwise very dangerous, may also fall into this category.

    B+ Rank

    [​IMG] Chansey
    [​IMG] Ferrothorn
    [​IMG] Gardevoir (Mega)
    [​IMG] Gliscor
    [​IMG] Medicham (Mega)
    [​IMG] Politoed
    [​IMG] Suicune
    [​IMG] Sylveon
    [​IMG] Zapdos

    B Rank

    [​IMG] Blastoise (Mega)
    [​IMG] Diggersby
    [​IMG] Heracross (Mega)
    [​IMG] Manectric (Mega)
    [​IMG] Mew
    [​IMG] Scolipede
    [​IMG] Slowbro
    [​IMG] Tornadus-T
    [​IMG] Victini
    [​IMG] Volcarona

    B- Rank

    [​IMG] Absol (Mega)
    [​IMG] Aggron (Mega)
    [​IMG] Alakazam
    [​IMG] Breloom
    [​IMG] Chesnaught
    [​IMG] Entei
    [​IMG] Galvantula
    [​IMG] Goodra
    [​IMG] Jellicent
    [​IMG] Jirachi
    [​IMG] Klefki
    [​IMG] Lucario
    [​IMG] Roserade
    [​IMG] Rotom-H
    [​IMG] Sableye
    [​IMG] Sharpedo
    [​IMG] Staraptor
    [​IMG] Starmie
    [​IMG] Togekiss
    [​IMG] Zygarde

    C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can be effective given the right support, but either have crippling flaws that prevent them from consistently executing their strategy or are completely eclipsed by a Pokemon in the above ranks.

    C+ Rank

    [​IMG] Abomasnow (Mega)
    [​IMG] Aerodactyl (Mega)
    [​IMG] Alakazam (Mega)
    [​IMG] Ampharos (Mega)
    [​IMG] Blissey
    [​IMG] Celebi
    [​IMG] Chandelure
    [​IMG] Crawdaunt
    [​IMG] Darmanitan
    [​IMG] Dugtrio
    [​IMG] Espeon
    [​IMG] Gardevoir
    [​IMG] Gourgeist-Small
    [​IMG] Gourgeist-XL
    [​IMG] Kingdra
    [​IMG] Krookodile
    [​IMG] Kyurem
    [​IMG] Machamp
    [​IMG] Ninetales
    [​IMG] Salamence
    [​IMG] Tangrowth
    [​IMG] Tentacruel
    [​IMG] Thundurus-T
    [​IMG] Trevenant
    [​IMG] Vaporeon
    [​IMG] Wobbuffet

    C Rank

    [​IMG] Azelf
    [​IMG] Cofagrigus
    [​IMG] Crobat
    [​IMG] Ditto
    [​IMG] Empoleon
    [​IMG] Escavalier
    [​IMG] Houndoom (Mega)
    [​IMG] Infernape
    [​IMG] Kabutops
    [​IMG] Magnezone
    [​IMG] Moltres
    [​IMG] Noivern
    [​IMG] Porygon2
    [​IMG] Quagsire
    [​IMG] Rhyperior
    [​IMG] Smeargle
    [​IMG] Snorlax


    [​IMG] Cloyster
    [​IMG] Froslass
    [​IMG] Ludicolo
    [​IMG] Meloetta
    [​IMG] Nidoking
    [​IMG] Rotom-C
    [​IMG] Shaymin
    [​IMG] Slowking

    D Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who have a small niche in the current OU metagame, but have very noticable flaws that make them more trouble then their worth the majority of the time.

    [​IMG] Banette (Mega)
    [​IMG] Honchkrow
    [​IMG] Mawile
    [​IMG] Mr. Mime
    [​IMG] Weezing
    [​IMG] Whimsicott

    ''CONCLUSION REACHED'' POKEMON: Pokemon in this list have reached a conclusive ideal ranking, so unless the metagame changes towards them or there is something about them that hasn't been said, discussion about them is disallowed.


    • Arcanine
    • Florges
    • Donphan
    • Post intelligently. Posts like "I think pokemon X should be in this tier" will not be tolerated
    • No flaming
    • Usage statistics may be used to support an argument or a claim, but don't base your ENTIRE argument around them. For example, you can't just say "Pokemon X shouldn't be this tier because they aren't used that often!"
    • No talk about editing the OFFICIAL Smogon tier lists.
    • PKGaming is amazing. This is an undisputed fact.
    Happy posting ♪♪
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 12, 2014
  2. ginganinja

    ginganinja How do I live? How do I breathe?
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Apr 13, 2009
    I am still tidying this up but ill unlock this for now so we can get some discussion started. Get Posting.
  3. trc

    trc nacilingva ludo superfortita
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Nov 16, 2013
    Ok, so here's some opinion on things that either haven't been added yet, or could be moved around.
    Major Things

    Deoxys-D ==> A rank
    Deoxys-D is the best hazard setter for offensive teams. Its crazy bulk allows it nearly a guaranteed SR + 1 layer of Spikes, while 2-3 layers if running Red Card. Magic Coat works perfectly with Deo-D, letting it bounce back Taunt, Status and other hazards if necessary, while its access to Taunt, Toxic and Recover only helps it in this role. It is very prominent in the OU metagame and I believe it is worthy of A rank.

    Manaphy ==> A rank
    Due to the weather nerf, Manaphy has lost its major niche on rain teams, but its well-rounded stats, good movepool and cool boosting moves let it still function well in OU, just maybe not as comparable to other A+ rank threats.

    Going through the rankings:
    S Rank


    Genesect is fine here. It is an amazing Scarfer, can go mixed, has priority, amazing coverage, only 1 weakness and great stats. Techno Blast is also buffed but I don't think that will have much impact.
    -Mega Lucario
    Nothing much to say here.
    Very good, but could possibly move to A+ rank solely because it starts to get a bit predictable. Still a major threat.
    Fine here. I think the OU council is suspecting this first though, all the more reason to keep it here.
    Could drop to A+. An SR weakness is never helpful, it initally has a somewhat lacking Attack stat, and is vulnerable to the common attacking types. Not too sure.

    A+ Rank


    Very anti-meta, 1st in usage and an excellent counter to a lot of threats. Definitely a good place for it.
    Heatran will always be good. Amazing typing, ability and can fill a multitude of roles.
    I've said my thoughts on this already.

    Excadrill: A+, the best spinner at the moment, great offensive power, good ability, works as a lead with SR + Mold Breaker, can still be used in sand and a great defensive typing.

    Things not added
    -Scizor ===> A
    -Dragonite ===> A
    -Gliscor ===> B+
    -Ferrothorn ===> A
    -Skarmory ===> B+
    -Trevenant ===> B
    -Jolteon ===> D
    -Malamar ===> C (or C-)
    -Kyurem-B ===> B+

    (is there A/B/C-)?
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2013
    GCSChris likes this.
  4. Shiruba


    Mar 1, 2013
    Nominating Zygarde for B-/C+

    Zygarde's got a cool niche in Coil, which is something only it can really do in OU. It differentiates itself from Garchomp via its more defensive layout, which lets it set up some Coils fairly easily, and with access to Extremespeed helps to mitigate its rather mediocre speed. It can also act as a neat parashuffler with Dragon Tail and Glare, another fairly exclusive move. However, Ice is a common attacking type, especially with Genesect's Ice Beams around [it gets the SpA boost when it switches in on Zygarde], and it doesn't quite hit hard enough unboosted. There are also plentiful dragon-types in OU, and it may be a touch difficult to put onto someone's team. It also lacks any particularly good Dragon moves to really abuse, though Dragon Rush is technically usable with a Coil boost. Its ability is also completely useless.

    Requesting someone with knowledge of Mega Blastoise to tier it. To me, it'd seem around B+/B, capable of taking on popular Pokemon like Talonflame and Aegislash with ease due to its expanded movepool, and fully-invested 135 Special Attack isn't exactly something you want to screw around with. It is also capable of Rapid Spinning, and due to its ability to beat spinblockers with Dark Pulse, is not easily stopped. However, with no recovery at all, it is worn down fairly easily. Not only that, the common Rotom-Wash preys on its weakness to electricity, and it is slow, as well as taking up your Mega slot.

    e: i was initially gonna do b-/c+ for zygarde, but blastoise distracted me. edited.
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2013
    Tressed likes this.
  5. ChrisTehAwesome


    Jun 16, 2012
    Nominating Trevenant for C+ Rank. With a great defensive ability in harvest or natural cure, as well as significant annoyance potential in the curse set, it defenitely fills a niche as a specially defensive spinblocker. Competition with Gourgeist might limit its usage, but higher attack and good stalling moves like shadow force as well as harvest lum make Trevanant a good choice.

    Other notes: Zygarde should be at most C, needs a lot of support to work well.
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2013
  6. MQJinx


    Mar 11, 2013
    I agree that Deoxys-D deserves A-rank; it really works on bulky offense, balanced, and stall teams that are unwilling to let their hazard setter get sacrificed to get hazards up. It can actually afford to use Recover and other usable moves like Knock Off to cripple Chansey, Magic Coat for hazard leads, Rocky Helmet for spinners, Mental Herb for Sableye, Skill Swap for Magic Bounce... Deoxys-D is able to freely choose its moves depending on what the team needs.

    Deoxys-D for A-Rank!
    ShadowMarioGalaxy64 and trc like this.
  7. TFL


    Mar 2, 2013
    The list, as is, looks pretty silly.

    Deoxys-S should be nowhere near S rank. It's frail, stopping it from setting up more than 1 layer isn't difficult, and most teams have a way of ridding hazards.

    A+ fits Talonflame better than S rank. It usually functions somewhat like BW OU's Alakazam, in which it is capable of revenge-killing most Mons. And although it is capable of hitting hard, it is very weak to Stealth Rock and can easily give the opponent free turns - it just doesn't fit S rank's description.

    Pinsir in B rank literally made me laugh - it has less than a handful of good switch-ins, decent bulk, and a good speed tier. There's also the fact that it 1-2HKO's everything that doesn't resist Return. Pinsir, at the very least, deserves an A ranking.

    And, lastly, Goodra perfectly fits the C rank description: "Reserved for Pokemon who can be effective given the right support, but either have crippling flaws that prevent them from consistently executing their strategy or are completely eclipsed by a Pokemon in the above ranks." - If Goodra isn't completely eclipsed by Latias (ie. is worse in most situations), then I can't see how anything will fall into this category.

    These Pokes' ranks were the ones that stood out the most to me, I may post when I see more Pokemon added into an area where I don't believe they should be (too much so). Sorry if my post wasn't elaborate enough, just wanted to get a few thoughts down quickly.
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2013
    Viserion, megayokim, Star and 22 others like this.
  8. sidakarya


    Feb 26, 2011
    My sundry thoughts on this:

    Deoxys-D: Agreeing this for the A-rank. With solid defences and a wide support-movepool, it will get those hazards up many times in a match. Its speed is fairly decent for a defensive mon too, allowing it to Taunt many defoggers.

    Dragonite: Solidly A+. With great bulk for a sweeper, and an expansive movepool, Dragonite is one of the premiere dragons in OU. Multiscale ensures that as long as you keep it at full health, not even Ice attacks from anything other than Mamoswine or Azumarill will stop you from setting up. The new item Weakness Policy even exploits this and welcomes all the bulky waters and faeries of the world to let it get free +2's across the board. The main thing holding it back is the nasty Stealth Rock weakness, which somewhat limits its opportunities to switch in, but hazard control has never been easier.

    Togekiss: Probably somewhere around B+? Togekiss has always been known for being a paraflinch bastard, but thanks to its new Fairy-type, it has another niche of being a good check to threatening sweepers like Dragonite, the Latis, Breloom, and Conkeldurr. Like Azumarill, the retype changes everything about it, as it has now gained very useful resistances/immunities to Dragon, Fighting, Dark, and Bug in exchange for weaknesses to Poison (lol) and Steel. It does miss the Ghost-immunity though. Paraflinch Togekiss struggles from Electric-types more than ever because of their immunity to Paralysis, prime opportunity for dangerous things like Thundurus to freely switch in. Its 4-moveslot-syndrome is pretty bad too, as it can't cover all of its counters at once and still run both of those delicious STABs. >tfw no moonblast

    Sylveon: I would say, it's C, maybe C+, at best B-. As a specially defensive faerie, it faces a lot of competition from Togekiss and Clefable, both of which have better movepools both coverage- and support-wise, and better abilities. Sylveon has no real good way to answer very common Steel switch-ins, like Scizor, Genesect, and Heatran, unlike the other two (who at least get good Fire moves or Aura Sphere), which is never good when they have all the reason to happily set up.
  9. CQC


    Oct 20, 2013
    Politoed should go to A imho; Sure, Drizzle got nerfed, but it's still great(just not as dominating as before) and with Swift Swim legal, it even got a buff.

    Rotom-H would be fitting for B- since it's great against many support-mons due to immunity to Thunderwave and WoW, it's good against many physical attackers thanks to having WoW itself, and it even is decent at walling quite a few special attackers with its resistance to BoltBeam.
    However, it struggles against all water-types, as well as physical fire-types, still has the annoying SR-weakness (though it isn't as annoying as last gen anymore) and you can only have one Rotom per Team, meaning that it competes quite a bit with Rotom-W.
  10. JustLetMePlay


    May 5, 2013
    I suppose it's a reflection of a good list (and perhaps the sorry state of the meta) that the top 6 mons listed here form a pretty damn solid team on their lonesome.

    I honestly think Conkeldurr should move to B+ at the very least. AV Conkeldurr is an absolute monster, bulky as all heck, with access to fairly reliable recovery despite AVs restrictions and powerful options to punish switches (Knock Off), it's definitely able to hang with the likes of Mamoswine at the very least.
    Ask Aggron and trc like this.
  11. Xcreated


    Dec 5, 2013
    I think Rotom - H is about a B-ish rank due to it bein able to support teams by sucking up the 2 most common crippling status'. Also over heat can one shot most of the common physical walls (Skarmory, Ferrorthorn, Sableye). I've never done one if these so I might have not given good enough reasons but it is a solid performer in my teams.
  12. trc

    trc nacilingva ludo superfortita
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Nov 16, 2013
    Seconding this. Conkeldurr is better this meta than it ever was, just like Bisharp and Mandibuzz. If there's A- Mandibuzz would suit that, and Bisharp should move to B either way.

    Scolipede ===> B

    I think C+ at the most. SR weak, and mostly outclassed by Rotom-W, aside from absorbing Will-o-Wisps. Maybe B- if that comes.
  13. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest It's Showtime! Are you ready?
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    Sep 5, 2012
    I'd like to see Scolipede added to B or B- Rank. I have tried Scolipede on a number of teams, and from my experiences it is a pretty solid Pokemon. It has some difficulty getting a Swords Dance boost, but once Scolipede gets going it's very effective. Speed Boost is a very good ability, and Scolipede makes pretty good use of it. Megahorn+EQ+Poison Jab is pretty decent coverage, and Poison STAB isn't too shabby to hit Azumarill and Togekiss. It's also decently versatile, so you can also slap Spikes or Toxic Spikes on it, or better yet, use a Baton Pass set. Either way, definitely give this manly mon a rank imo.

    I'm also thinking that the Latis should get a ranking somewhere on this list, probably in like, say A? Idk though.

    I want to see Cofagrigus in here, probably in C Rank. It's a decent niche Pokemon, with the OTR set being still quite unique, and the fact that Steel does not resist Ghost anymore is a major thing in Cofagrigus's favor. This thing can sweep decently, with Ghost+Fighting coverage to do quite a bit of hurt against opponents, or Will-O-Wisp to cripple things. However, it's wrecked by things like Greninja and Shadow Ball Aegislash, and it has to compete with other Ghosts so it doesn't really cut it above a niche mon.

    I also think Krookodile is decently viable, probably at best a C mon. Intimidate and a cool support movepool is quite good, and its defensive typing is not terrible in a meta with Ghost and Dark attacks everywhere, the Knock off buff is also quite nice. It can take on Aegislash, which is nice, and other physical attackers. Moxie with Scarf or LO is also decent and Krookodile can sweep with a really nice offensive typing. This may just be me though.
    Tressed likes this.
  14. trc

    trc nacilingva ludo superfortita
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    Nov 16, 2013
    Seconding Latias to A+ and Latios to A
  15. Ropeburn


    Jul 12, 2013
    I'd like to nominate Terrakion for A+. I'm not sure why this hasn't already been mentioned , since CB Terrakion is the basis used for judging Physical walls, and with STAB Stone Edge and STAB Close Combat, there aren't many clean switch-ins. The biggest boon of Terrakion last gen was the excess amount of bulky waters, and the hefty usage of Scizor, yet he still maintained a steady usage in OU as one of the most powerful physical attackers.

    Terrakion can be one of the best stat-boosters in the game, one of the best Choice Band users or one of the best revenge killers with a Choice Scarf. With all this offensive diversity, heis one of the best offensive threats in the game that every team should be prepared for.
  16. ShadowMarioGalaxy64


    Dec 22, 2012
    I'm surprised that there is not a mention of Thundurus-I. With how it can run with Prankster Taunt and Thunder Wave, it can cripple the opposition and it also maintains a steady amount of power. Granted that, without Rain, it can't run Thunder as easily, but it has many options. Boosting Sweeper, Opposition Crippler, VolTurn partner, and is difficult to downright stop thanks to having just the right stats and just the right movepool with a great ability that is currently being slammed with hate.

    I therefore nominate Thundurus-I for A+/A. If anybody wants to disagree with how I feel or think it should be higher/lower, feel free to express. ^_^
    Aruruii and Ropeburn like this.
  17. wishes

    wishes pretty girls
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    Aug 30, 2013
    Nominating Mega Venusaur for A, for a variety of reasons:
    Mega Venusaur is one of the only true Mega Walls, it has access to recovery and isn't dead weight after Taunt, unlike most defensive Pokemon. It has only two weaknesses, both of which aren't terribly common, it also gains two resistances after Mega Evolving. It has access to Sleep Powder as well, making it a very great Pokemon to put others to Sleep, it has Sludge Bomb so it doesn't have to worry about Grass-types at all really. It gained a resistance this generation, making it have a decent five weaknesses, with the ever common Water and Fighting moves included in these. Mega Venusaur also have the advantage of brushing off Rotom-W, as it doesn't mind Will-o-Wisp, it resists both of its STABs, and is immune to Trick, while Rotom-W is defeated by Giga Drain. Mega Venusaur is also an excellent stop to Sylveon and Mega Gardevoir. It also has access to Knock Off, making it all the more bothersome. It can also work very well on Sun Teams. It can Chlorophyll before Mega Evolving, netting one or two Growthes, then Mega Evolving to get great bulk and two new resistances. It is one of the only Pokemon that can do this, it turns Mega Venusaur into a very potent offensive threat. Synthesis also gets boosted by the sunlight, as does Solar Beam if you choose to run that, which you should not. It is very unpredictable really.
    Mega Venusar has its flaws, such as a glaring weakness to Talonflame. It also has severe 4MSS, as it wants Sleep Powder to put things to sleep, it wants Synthesis for recovery, it wants Earthquake to get past Heatran, but it wants Sludge Bomb for Fairies, while it wants Giga Drain for consistent damage, but then again it wants Growth for boosting, or it wants Hidden Power [Ice] to not be walled by Dragonite and other Dragons. These are the things that hold Mega Venusaur back from being A+ in my opinion.
    lopsided, Boltaway, Ropeburn and 2 others like this.
  18. Kairyu_Gen1


    Nov 6, 2013
    First, a question. Are we distinguishing megas from normal? Because there are still niches that normal pokemon (such as venusaur or gyarados) do better than their megas. Do we count both as part of a pokemon's viablility or specify which one we're referring to?

    Espeon, as a B (ish)
    Alakazam as B-
    Donphan as a C (pretty outclassed by Excadrill)
    Volcarona as a B+
    Blissey (how have we not mentioned her yet?) as a B+/A,

    Talonflame should drop to A+ because it can be walled by most rock types (rare, but still around), and can't stand SR. Therefore it needs support
    Politoed is at most B, as it's a great wallbreaker, but can't sweep
    Venusaur should definitely be A as the mega can take hits like a boss and heal itself pretty easily despite no lefties
    Zygarde is B (ish) as it can sweep a lot of the metagame and tank most physical attackers
    Goodra is B because it is slightly outperformed by latias, but not over shadowed
    Terrakion is probably an A, but not an A+.d
    AllstyleNoSkill and Jaguar360 like this.
  19. perplexingpool

    perplexingpool Banned deucer.

    Oct 26, 2013
    I think Manaphy should be dropped to B Rank. It's simply too slow, lacking in reliable recovery, and not bulky enough to actually sweep a team. Without perma-rain, it loses a lot of viabilty.
  20. Molk

    Molk Godlike Usmash
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    Jul 27, 2011
    Going to agree that Thundurus-I is a really fantastic Pokemon atm and should be pretty high in rank. Despite the move base power nerfs to things like Thunderbolt and Hidden Power Ice, Thundurus still has more than enough power to pose a threat, and Hidden Power Ice still does significant enough damage to the things that it needs to. Base 125 Special Attack is absolutely excellent, especially with such a great 111 Speed tier and the ability to possibly bolster its Special Attack even further with Nasty Plot. Thundurus's offensive presence is really only part of what makes it so great though imo, as it has the ability to abuse at least two support moves extremely effectively thanks to prankster: Taunt and Thunder Wave. Taunt lets Thundurus stop most support Pokemon in their tracks, regardless of their Speed stat (it can even taunt hazards Deo-s, which is really really nice considering how annoying those early game hazards can be if not removed), and Thunder Wave gives Thundurus some great utility on offensive teams as a bit of a panic button, letting it use the move to paralyze fast/boosted threats the user might not have been able to handle at that point of the match otherwise, although often at the cost of its life because of its frailty. All in all, Thund-I's still great offensive presence and the massive utility of prankster Taunt and Thunder Wave make it totally worthy of A+ imo, although if there are good arguments as to why it should be lower i'd settle for just A.

    EDIT: i might also like to see greninja a bit lower, might post on that later if i can get my thoughts together.
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2013
  21. imaloony80


    Nov 26, 2013
    I'd honestly maybe bump Diggersby a little higher, just because he is an excellent scarfer, being the only Huge/Pure Power user in the game to get a switch-out move (U-Turn), and he gets some really nice coverage moves with Wild Charge, Hammer Arm, Stone Edge, and Bounce. He isn't going to be dethroning the other Huge/Pure Power users, but I'd consider him for B-. The reason that I think he's getting overshadowed is because of the buff to Azumarill, plus Mega Mawile and Mega Medicham which have pulled all the attention away from our arm-eared companion.
    Try him out, you'll be surprised.
    Hjwang likes this.
  22. Alter

    Alter lab report ᐛ
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator

    Jan 7, 2013
    Hopefully this thread doesn't get inflated as the last one and we can have some good discussion regarding the viability of different Pokemon. I'll just leave a couple of nominations here for now.

    [​IMG] Suicune ==> C Rank
    • Excellent Calm Mind sweeper with superb bulk
    • It has a unique typing to distinguish it from other Calm Mind sweepers
    • Somewhat outclassed by other CM users (Latias, Jirachi & Reuniclus?)
    • It relies quite a bit on team support to KO Pokemon such as Chansey, Blissey, Jellicent and Celebi.
    [​IMG] Roserade ==> C+ Rank
    • It can hit hard with its base 125 Special Attack
    • Roserade can sponge status fairly reliably due to Natural Cure
    • Access to Toxic Spikes, Spikes and Sleep Powder
    • Useful defensive typing (resistances to Fighting-, Water-, Electric-, and Grass-type moves)
    Edit: I also agree with the push for Thundurus-I!
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2013
    Ranger Mike and trc like this.
  23. Giometry


    Oct 2, 2013
    I will be adding to this wall of text all night with edits so bear with me now.

    Thundurus I ==> A+ Rank: Priority Thunder wave is always nice and can debilitate powerful threats such as mega lucario, MegazardX Greninja just to name a few. A very trollish base 111 speed allows it to outspeed a wide majority of threats and a very good base 125 Spatk lets it hit hard. Access to Nasty Plot for Sweeping allows it to be very successful at wiping out threats and late game cleaning. Access to Discharge, Dark Pulse, and Focus Blast provide nice coverage. It unfortunately, like many electric types has to rely on the fairly weak HP ice to get past things like Dragonite, Garchomp, Gliscor, and Landorus which ruins his bid for S rank.

    Thundurus T ==> A- Rank: It loses priority T-wave which causes it to lose its bid for taunt and t-wave support reserving it to purely offensive roles. This is not the worst thing in the world however as it gains a colossal base 145 Spatk and maintains a still trollish base 101 speed. Same movepool as Thundurus-I but with slightly less 4MSS but that isn't neccesarily good. Still a major threat in the metagame.

    Gliscor ==> A Rank: Gliscor gained the ability to clear hazards with defog this gen which definitely helps out. Gliscor didn't lose anything this gen with the only major new threats to it being genesect azumarril and special/mixed aegislash. Gliscor is also able to counter many of the main threats this gen such as Talonflame, Physical Mega Lucario, and Physical Aegislash. Gliscor is still able to stall out most physically based mons with a combination of Roost, Substitute, Toxic, and Poison Heal. The knock off buff also allows Gliscor to have even more utility than before.

    Galvantula ==> C or C- rank: Galvantula is the most viable sticky web layer at the moment however that isn't saying too much as most are terrible. Fairly Decent coverage with Giga Drain, Bug Buzz, and Discharge but also needs HP Ice for stuff like gliscor. It may be blazingly fast however it lacks punch and Takes hits only slightly better than a sheet of glass. I don't think that sticky web is truly deserving enough to bring him to B- rank or even C+ rank.

    Gardevoir(Mega) ==> B+ Rank: Mega Gardevoir can run an absolutely devastating Calm Mind Set with amazing Ghost/Psychic/Fairy Coverage. It can run Psyshock to effectively become a mixed sweeper. It boasts a Massive base 165 Spatk and a good Base 100 Speed alongside a great base 135 Spdef Which when combined with even a single CM boost allows Gardevoir to become a fearsome sweeper that can take special hits like a champ. It also boasts a nifty quad resist to fighting.

    Mega Alakazam ==> S Rank: Coming along with a godly base 175 Spatk and a Titanic base 150 Speed Mega alakazam cuts a swath of plague and destruction wherever it goes. It carries with it a respectable base 95 Spdef to help it survive hits. It can outspeed and OHKO a majority of the tier with Psychic/Ghost/Fighting/Fairy or Grass coverage along with being able to punch holes in pink blobs with psyshock. Some notable threats that get demolished by this Psychic God include Mega Lucario, Greninja, and Gengar. It does what alakazam did last gen but to a much greater extent. Unfortunately it loses the awesome magic guard in return for the shaky Trace. Trace can end up being a Godsend tracing things such as Protean, Levitate, Thick Fat, or Water Absorb, but can also be entirely useless tracing things like Aerilate, Huge Power, or Sand Stream.

    Ferrothorn ==> A- Rank: Still a huge defensive threat Ferrothorn lost a couple things this gen that would have secured an A+ rank last gen such as the loss of ghost and dark resists. It loses the utility of rain and now has to face a variety of new threats that can turn it to dust such as talonflame, Mega Lucario, and the Megazards. It still maintains the setting of hazards and universally good defenses but its grass/steel typing just isn't what it used to be.

    Zapdos ==> B- Rank: Zapdos has gained a few tricks this gen thanks to the defog buff and the fall of weather allowing Zappy to not have to deal with residual damage. The rain fall goes both ways for our favorite electric bird as it no longer can have 100% accurate Thunders flying down from the heavens either. Zapdos can deal with some of the new threats such as mega lucario decently well and can run both defensive and offensive sets to success.

    Scolipede ==> B+ Rank: Scolipede must have done some great favor for nintendo for it to gain the boost it got. Scoli got a nice 100 base attack this gen alongside arguably the best offensive ability in the game in speed boost. It is versatile being able to run sweeping sets with SD and QuakeSlide Coverage It can also successfully run its spiking NU set from last gen in these tiers with the boosts it got alongside doing ninjasks old job of baton pass speed boost SD but even better. Scolipede gets the title for most improved poke of the generation.
    Some Changing comments: Gengar to A+ because of the ghost buff and its great coverage and power, Forretress to B rank because it still is a great utility mon and is still good at physically walling and rapid spinning. Diggersby to B- because of that raw power.

    Edit: Sorry SMG64 I didn't see your post on thundurus but hey i agree with you
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2013
    ShadowMarioGalaxy64 likes this.
  24. Aragorn the King

    Aragorn the King The Crystal Fellowship
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor

    Dec 26, 2013
    But, from my experience, it's incredibly easy to get to +3, +6 even. From there Manaphy makes an excellent great late game cleaner, as long as grass types and electrics other than rotom are gone. Sure, it won't be taking +6 attacks, but 100 100 100 bulk is still amazing. Easy A, from me at least.
  25. perplexingpool

    perplexingpool Banned deucer.

    Oct 26, 2013
    From my experience, Manaphy is left with so little HP after setting up a Tail Glow and killing something that it gets revenge killed very easily. It is usually guaranteed a kill, but does little else.
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