Well could focus blast and EQ be used together effectively? Or should I dump EQ for roost if I have focus blast?
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Pokémon Charizard
- Thread starter X5Dragon
- Start date
- Status
There's no need for both moves on either zard. If you use Y, you use focus blast. If you use X, you use earthquake.
kk thank you!
DDY is hilarious. Go into something that both Charizards kill, set up a DD without Mega-evolving, set up another if they brought in something that KOs a Charizard-Y, but not X, then Mega evolve into Y
Running Earthquake on Mega Charizard Y is viable too, it's much more reliable than Focus Blast and hits the common SpDef Heatran harder than Focus Blast. You can run either Hasty or Mild if you choose to do this.
Without Assault Vest:
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 210-248 (54.4 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Mega Charizard Y Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 284-336 (73.5 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
With Assault Vest:
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Heatran: 140-166 (36.2 - 43%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Mega Charizard Y Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 284-336 (73.5 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Keep in mind though that Focus Blast is used to hit many other threats to CharY, for example:
0 Atk Mega Charizard Y Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 138-164 (34.1 - 40.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 272-324 (67.3 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
The above was done with Assault Vest. It really comes down to how you built your team to support you Mega, if you got one of those covered you can reliably use the other.
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 210-248 (54.4 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Mega Charizard Y Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 284-336 (73.5 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
With Assault Vest:
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Heatran: 140-166 (36.2 - 43%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Mega Charizard Y Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 284-336 (73.5 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Keep in mind though that Focus Blast is used to hit many other threats to CharY, for example:
0 Atk Mega Charizard Y Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 138-164 (34.1 - 40.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 272-324 (67.3 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
The above was done with Assault Vest. It really comes down to how you built your team to support you Mega, if you got one of those covered you can reliably use the other.
With Focus Blast, you really have to factor in the accuracy, as you're more likely to miss one than to hit both. Of course Heatran can't hit you back that hard, but Toxic/Protect stalling can really hurt your FB PP.
I wish people would be a little more original in triple battles I have just started playing them and have done 7 games, in all 7 games the people I faced used mega Charizard y as leads. It's annoying that there is no variety.
Last edited:
You can't blame them. STAB Heat Wave coming from base 159 SpA in the sun probably hurts like a motherfucker
I guess its just I dont like easy wins and thats what it became when I knew to lead with a team of anti Charizad y pokemon every time
The reason it's so common is because it's a top threat. And what's the whole "easy wins" thing you're talking about? To play competitively, you want to use the best tools at your disposal. For example, I don't think any modern army would care to put down their guns and carry swords onto the battlefield in the name of originality and I don't think The Miami Heat would make Lebron sit on the sidelines because he's considered the best basketball player of the time and they don't want easy wins.
In a truly competitive setting, variety is a bad thing. You don't want a metagame with too many things going on, because the game then becomes inconsistent and there is no real team building process at that point. We need common threats like Charizard Y.
Hello. I've been lurking the forums for quite a while but have been always too shy to post. I've been fooling around with this set in my head and I thought I'd bring it up with you guys to see if it's any good.
DD Charizard X's common problems are:
-Hippowdon and Landorus-T that can come in as it sets-up, survive a +1 attack and hit back hard/OHKO
-Chansey/Blissey that comes in as you set-up expecting a CharY, survives a +1 dragon claw/outrage and can cripple you with T-wave
-scarf revenge killers namely Garchomp, Terrakion, Salamence and Lati@s
After thinking it over, these problem were either because CharX didn't hit hard enough to OHKO or it wasn't fast enough so it got revenge killed by a scarfer even after a DD (base 100 speed). Instead of trying to raise both speed and attack moderately with DD, what if we try to raise the one aspect it needs to overcome a particular enemy? Which brings us to the set
Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Flare Blitz
- Swords Dance
- Tailwind
Depending on the enemy team, the idea is to use either a Swords Dance to break through whatever wall/counter they have (Hippowdon, Landorus-T, Chansey) or Tailwind to protect yourself from a revenge killer as you try to get as many kills as possible with your unboosted attacks.
We all know that Fire/Dragon coverage is very good to the point that CharX can afford to run Roost in the last slot. This set foregoes any plans of longetivity and just aims to take down as many opposing enemies it can. Even unboosted, Flare Blitz and Outrage hit hard enough to OHKO a lot of things (even more with SR support). Tough Claws + 120 bp + stab moves is enough to OHKO fast and relatively frail threats using Tailwind (relatively frail like Terrakion). 100 base speed with a Swords Dance is enough to outspeed and OHKO bulky threats.
Assuming the usual strategy of entering against something you can set-up on (Scizor, Rotom-W that you can scare away etc), we use the appropriate boost for the occasion. If the enemy has both say Chansey/Hippowdon and Garchomp/Terrakion, we choose which one to prioritize. Killing a wall and being forced out by Garchomp doesn't seem like a bad deal.
Calculations. Outrage and Flare Blitz do the same damage to a neutral target so we can use whichever one is more appropriate for the situation considering their respective drawbacks.
Against the usual problematic counters/checks/switch-ins for both CharX and CharY
The ones above can be handled consistently with just Jolly nature. Posting some calcs for adamant+jolly.
It obviously won't switch in but I did it anyway to see if Megasaur can cripple you if it's forced to come out.
What about steel types that come in when you're locked into an outrage?
Aegislash's Kings Shield is a problem if it comes in on a revenge kill and you're stuck in outrage but even after losing your attack boost, flare blitz still hits hard while it struggles to KO back.
Unboosted attacks against the usual scarfers assuming we used Tailwind. I won't even post the calcs for Lati@s and scarfmence since we know how that turns out.
What about Azumarill?
Even after all this, CharX is still vulnerable against priority attacks and status. Fortunately, it's neutral to all priority attacks so it survives if healthy enough. Not much you can do about prankster status though.
Fairies coming in as you're locked into an outrage (after a kill) also leads to them getting an extra turn but at least you can use Flare Blitz to OHKO some neutral targets (Hippowdon/Chansey/Landorus-T/Gliscor) if you see a fairy. Tailwind can be used as a last ditch support move as well.
End note: I've run this with X5Dragon and he graciously advised me to share the idea and tinker with the EVs. If anyone is interested enough to come up with a better EV spread, I would be grateful to hear your thoughts. I'm quite new to competitive so I'm sure other people know better than me.
DD Charizard X's common problems are:
-Hippowdon and Landorus-T that can come in as it sets-up, survive a +1 attack and hit back hard/OHKO
-Chansey/Blissey that comes in as you set-up expecting a CharY, survives a +1 dragon claw/outrage and can cripple you with T-wave
-scarf revenge killers namely Garchomp, Terrakion, Salamence and Lati@s
After thinking it over, these problem were either because CharX didn't hit hard enough to OHKO or it wasn't fast enough so it got revenge killed by a scarfer even after a DD (base 100 speed). Instead of trying to raise both speed and attack moderately with DD, what if we try to raise the one aspect it needs to overcome a particular enemy? Which brings us to the set
Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Flare Blitz
- Swords Dance
- Tailwind
Depending on the enemy team, the idea is to use either a Swords Dance to break through whatever wall/counter they have (Hippowdon, Landorus-T, Chansey) or Tailwind to protect yourself from a revenge killer as you try to get as many kills as possible with your unboosted attacks.
We all know that Fire/Dragon coverage is very good to the point that CharX can afford to run Roost in the last slot. This set foregoes any plans of longetivity and just aims to take down as many opposing enemies it can. Even unboosted, Flare Blitz and Outrage hit hard enough to OHKO a lot of things (even more with SR support). Tough Claws + 120 bp + stab moves is enough to OHKO fast and relatively frail threats using Tailwind (relatively frail like Terrakion). 100 base speed with a Swords Dance is enough to outspeed and OHKO bulky threats.
Assuming the usual strategy of entering against something you can set-up on (Scizor, Rotom-W that you can scare away etc), we use the appropriate boost for the occasion. If the enemy has both say Chansey/Hippowdon and Garchomp/Terrakion, we choose which one to prioritize. Killing a wall and being forced out by Garchomp doesn't seem like a bad deal.
Calculations. Outrage and Flare Blitz do the same damage to a neutral target so we can use whichever one is more appropriate for the situation considering their respective drawbacks.
Against the usual problematic counters/checks/switch-ins for both CharX and CharY
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 675-795 (95.8 - 112.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Gliscor: 330-388 (93.2 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 417-492 (109.1 - 128.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 469-553 (116 - 136.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Tyranitar: 358-423 (88.6 - 104.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Gliscor: 330-388 (93.2 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 417-492 (109.1 - 128.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 469-553 (116 - 136.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Tyranitar: 358-423 (88.6 - 104.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
The ones above can be handled consistently with just Jolly nature. Posting some calcs for adamant+jolly.
+2 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 358-423 (85.2 - 100.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 327-385 (77.8 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 378-445 (95.9 - 112.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 343-405 (87 - 102.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 327-385 (77.8 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 378-445 (95.9 - 112.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 343-405 (87 - 102.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
It obviously won't switch in but I did it anyway to see if Megasaur can cripple you if it's forced to come out.
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Venusaur: 318-375 (87.3 - 103%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
What about steel types that come in when you're locked into an outrage?
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 146-172 (43.7 - 51.4%) -- 67.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 161-189 (48.2 - 56.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 242-285 (62.6 - 73.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 179-211 (55.2 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 161-189 (48.2 - 56.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 242-285 (62.6 - 73.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 179-211 (55.2 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Aegislash's Kings Shield is a problem if it comes in on a revenge kill and you're stuck in outrage but even after losing your attack boost, flare blitz still hits hard while it struggles to KO back.
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 360-426 (111.1 - 131.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-2 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 180-212 (55.5 - 65.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
-2 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 180-212 (55.5 - 65.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Unboosted attacks against the usual scarfers assuming we used Tailwind. I won't even post the calcs for Lati@s and scarfmence since we know how that turns out.
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 279-328 (86.3 - 101.5%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 279-328 (86.3 - 101.5%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 534-630 (149.1 - 175.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 306-361 (94.7 - 111.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 306-361 (94.7 - 111.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 279-328 (86.3 - 101.5%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 534-630 (149.1 - 175.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 306-361 (94.7 - 111.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 306-361 (94.7 - 111.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
What about Azumarill?
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 306-361 (75.7 - 89.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Even after all this, CharX is still vulnerable against priority attacks and status. Fortunately, it's neutral to all priority attacks so it survives if healthy enough. Not much you can do about prankster status though.
Fairies coming in as you're locked into an outrage (after a kill) also leads to them getting an extra turn but at least you can use Flare Blitz to OHKO some neutral targets (Hippowdon/Chansey/Landorus-T/Gliscor) if you see a fairy. Tailwind can be used as a last ditch support move as well.
End note: I've run this with X5Dragon and he graciously advised me to share the idea and tinker with the EVs. If anyone is interested enough to come up with a better EV spread, I would be grateful to hear your thoughts. I'm quite new to competitive so I'm sure other people know better than me.
mega charizard Y's offensive prowess will always be greater than that of X when starting off. Because of thi most persons will prefer the immediate power of charizard Y and push X to the backburner. However chariard X is far more fearsome in the longer run. Its ability to use dragon dance and tough claw ability can easily change the fate of a match. Chariard Y will hardly run dragon dance and doesnt use the offensive boost. Also on the other hand it gets only 5 turn of sun and takes 50% from stealth rocks. These are factors that must be considered when choosing Y over X. The best set ro run on Y is
Dragon dance
Earthquake
Fire Blast
Solar beam
and for X its
Dragon dance
Flare blitz
Dragon claw
earhquake
Dragon dance
Earthquake
Fire Blast
Solar beam
and for X its
Dragon dance
Flare blitz
Dragon claw
earhquake
eh, that's a little over simplifying. I'm a little confused on how you say Y hardly ever runs DD, but then you put it on its "best" set. DD isn't even in the Analysis of Y. Also saying there's a "best" set is really selling the others short. Instead of simply looking at sets, lets look at roles to compare the two Zards.
Standard Y set (taken from Analysis thread):
Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Hasty / Mild / Modest
252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP (4 Atk if EQ)
-Fire Blast
-Solar Beam
-Focus Blast/Dragon Pulse
-EQ/Roost
Y is a born wall breaker, but it also is impressive as a late game cleaner. Its fire blast in sun has undeniably amazing calcs, and not using it is almost always a shame. Solarbeam is a great option for coverage, and should be considered every time for water and rock types. Between those two, you really only have 3 big problems, special walls, dragons, and Heatran. What you do with the last moves depends on what you want Y to do, and who your team members are. I like roost because it boosts his survivability and focus blast for Heatran/Ttar, but that's because the team I use Y on has plenty of physical muscle and dragon checks. I don't like DD because it wastes a turn of your sun (I never keep Y around longer than 5 turns. He comes in, blows shit up, and gets out), and I don't like EQ because that means I can't use modest and I'll have to lower one of my defenses. Not that either of them are unviable, but they have drawbacks that must be considered. My focus is having Y remove specific threats so my sweepers have an easier time, but also keep it alive for the late game. Identifying your focus is the first step. If you need a mixed attacker, EQ and flare blitz make perfect sense, but you'll lose out somewhere else/
Standard X set:
Charizard @ Charizardite X
Adamant / Jolly
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Def
-Dragon Dance
-Flare Blitz/Fire Punch
-Dragon Claw/Outrage
-Roost/Earthquake
This set is clearly made for sweeping. Depending on your opponent, this set is one of the most likely to 6-0 a team in the game. Mid and late game sweeping is amazing as after only one or 2 DDs he's a huge threat to an entire team. The main choice is whether to include roost to keep from dying from recoil (or confusion if you use outrage/fire punch) or EQ to avoid being walled by Heatran. If a sweeper is what you need, this set's what you want. I'll add that his bulky set is very viable as well, I just haven't used it as much.
Honestly, I don't find the forms that comparable. They both can break walls, but Y's better built for it. They both can sweep, but X has more potential earlier on. They both tank well, but in different situations and against different opponents. Really, Charizard is one of my last additions to a team because no matter what you choose, it has a pretty clear role, the trick is to find a team that needs it while not making it obvious which form you chose.
I think there is one more problem that should be considered. Faster pokemon with SE Rock or Electric type moves. Yes, Zard likes to get in and get out. But having to jump out at the sign of any Terrakion or Alakazam still gives your opponent a free turn. That's why I prefer to run Flame Charge and sacrifice either Dragon Pulse or Focus Blast.
Also the final 4 EVs shouldn't go in HP, as it makes Zard's HP stat even, only allowing it to switch into SR once.
I think the defensive set of Zard X is based on his fairly unique typing that makes him only 2x weak to Rock, Ground and Dragon, which combined with his 78/111/85 defenses allow him to absorb hits easily. While Zard Y has the adventage of Drought to temporarily remove the Water weakness of his, being weather dependent in Gen6 isn't exactly the most ideal thing, not to mention that 4x weakness to Rock is huge.
Once you can keep Rocks off the field Zard Y has a lot of defensive merits. It resists 6 fairly common offensive types and has a full immunity to another. Coupled with base 115 Sdef it can be quite a pain in the ass to take down especially if it's packing Roost.
I've been using it on a Stall Team now for months and it has yet to disappoint.
In-game I play a dedicated special wall Florges -- 252 HP/252 SpDef. As soon as I see Charizard Y, Florges switches in and starts wish-protect-wish-protect until the sun is down. CharY can't do anything. And once the sun is down, the world is my oyster.
In-game is littered with CharY wannabe teams, and they are meat and drink.
In-game is littered with CharY wannabe teams, and they are meat and drink.
In competitive play, I wouldn't expect that to work. For one, Florges is almost completely overshadowed by Sylveon due to a more practical stat distribution and better offenses. Mainly though, a predictable combo like wish + protect will just force Y out to a pokemon that can handle Florges (pretty much any physical attacker can do the job).
It's hard to say which one is better, in stats and ability, it's easy to say Charizard Y with ease. But you must look further into the game to see what each value...
Charizard Y:
Easily one of the best wallbreakers in the game. Being able to rip through physical walls with ease, and being able to bring a physical move to remove special walls is great. This set shows it's power:
Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Hasty / Mild / Modest / Timid
252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP (4 Atk if EQ)
-Fire Blast
-Solar Beam
-Focus Blast/Dragon Pulse
-EQ/Roost
Having Drought along with Fire Blast is power beyond imagination, look at this:
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Thick Fat Mega Venusaur in Sun: 270-318 (74.1 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Thick Fat Venu can't hold on very long whatsoever, 2HKO'ed easily by Charizard Y. Charizard Y may pack a powerful punch, but every Pokemon has it's drawback. Charizards have a extremely common moveset of Fire Blast, Solar Beam, Focus Blast, and EQ/Roost. With predicting, you can outplay this Pokemon until Sun comes down. Sun is Charizard Y's strongest point, once it goes down, it's firepower really loses power:
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 180-212 (49.4 - 58.2%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO
But alas, being one of the best wallbreaking Pokemon, it is a force to be reckoned with.
Charizard X
"Why use Charizard X? Isn't Char Y better?" Well, in a way it is. But Charizard Y is built for wallbreaking, and also with the loss of sun, it loses a lot of firepower. Charizard X on the other hand, does not need weather, it is a full out setup sweeper. Lets take a look at it, shall we?
Charizard @ Charizardite X
Jolly / Adamant
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 SDef
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage / Dragon Claw
- Flare Blitz
- Brick Break/EQ/Roost
Charizard X is a terrifying sweeper all teams should look out for. Once a Dragon Dance gets setup, Charizard X with the Tough Claws boost can hit like a truck. Here are some calculations of it's raw power.
+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 320-378 (87.9 - 103.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Gliscor: 247-292 (69.7 - 82.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 507-597 (72 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
That's JOLLY Nature, imagine adamant, so don't mess with this dragon. Speaking of Dragon, Mega Evolution grants it the Dragon-Fire Typing it always prayed for. Sadly, it loses 4x weakness to rock to something just as bad as it is good: Earthquake. Earthquake can now deal a ton of damage to Char X and will almost always 2HKO. Lets look at the ending result
Which is better?
The decision is on you, supposedly Charizard X is better in my opinion for brute strength and superior bulk, but it's really up to you.
Charizard Y:
Easily one of the best wallbreakers in the game. Being able to rip through physical walls with ease, and being able to bring a physical move to remove special walls is great. This set shows it's power:
Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Hasty / Mild / Modest / Timid
252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP (4 Atk if EQ)
-Fire Blast
-Solar Beam
-Focus Blast/Dragon Pulse
-EQ/Roost
Having Drought along with Fire Blast is power beyond imagination, look at this:
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Thick Fat Mega Venusaur in Sun: 270-318 (74.1 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Thick Fat Venu can't hold on very long whatsoever, 2HKO'ed easily by Charizard Y. Charizard Y may pack a powerful punch, but every Pokemon has it's drawback. Charizards have a extremely common moveset of Fire Blast, Solar Beam, Focus Blast, and EQ/Roost. With predicting, you can outplay this Pokemon until Sun comes down. Sun is Charizard Y's strongest point, once it goes down, it's firepower really loses power:
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 180-212 (49.4 - 58.2%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO
But alas, being one of the best wallbreaking Pokemon, it is a force to be reckoned with.
- Drought is insanely useful, this Pokemon is basically a must have for sun teams
- 159 Base Sp.Atk is no joke, 2HKO'ing half of the metagame
- Has decent special bulk, nothing to show off though
- Amazing wallbreaking capabilities
- 159 Base Sp.Atk is no joke, 2HKO'ing half of the metagame
- Has decent special bulk, nothing to show off though
- Amazing wallbreaking capabilities
- Rock weakness is horrible, don't let SR get up, or get hit by a rock move as it will almost always OHKO you
- Quite common moveset
- Without sun, loses a large niche and is much easier to defeat
- Physical bulk is much less than special bulk, won't be taking Physical hits well
- Quite common moveset
- Without sun, loses a large niche and is much easier to defeat
- Physical bulk is much less than special bulk, won't be taking Physical hits well
Charizard X
"Why use Charizard X? Isn't Char Y better?" Well, in a way it is. But Charizard Y is built for wallbreaking, and also with the loss of sun, it loses a lot of firepower. Charizard X on the other hand, does not need weather, it is a full out setup sweeper. Lets take a look at it, shall we?
Charizard @ Charizardite X
Jolly / Adamant
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 SDef
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage / Dragon Claw
- Flare Blitz
- Brick Break/EQ/Roost
Charizard X is a terrifying sweeper all teams should look out for. Once a Dragon Dance gets setup, Charizard X with the Tough Claws boost can hit like a truck. Here are some calculations of it's raw power.
+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 320-378 (87.9 - 103.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Gliscor: 247-292 (69.7 - 82.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 507-597 (72 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
That's JOLLY Nature, imagine adamant, so don't mess with this dragon. Speaking of Dragon, Mega Evolution grants it the Dragon-Fire Typing it always prayed for. Sadly, it loses 4x weakness to rock to something just as bad as it is good: Earthquake. Earthquake can now deal a ton of damage to Char X and will almost always 2HKO. Lets look at the ending result
- Powerful Sweeper, similar to it's counterpart, it 2HKO's the entire Metagame with one Dragon Dance
- Although predictable movepool, the moveset still is hard to counter
- Bulk is decent for a sweeper at 78/111/85
- Loses 4x Weakness to Rock (Woot)
- Although predictable movepool, the moveset still is hard to counter
- Bulk is decent for a sweeper at 78/111/85
- Loses 4x Weakness to Rock (Woot)
- Gets new weakness to the common Ground Types
- Without DDance up, speed is below average
- Must switch in on something it can live a hit off on, DDance is it's best way to boost, without it, loses niche
- Without DDance up, speed is below average
- Must switch in on something it can live a hit off on, DDance is it's best way to boost, without it, loses niche
Which is better?
The decision is on you, supposedly Charizard X is better in my opinion for brute strength and superior bulk, but it's really up to you.
This is the build I run. I didn't put it on my team to lead, but recently I've been using it as such, and getting amazing results. I run a 4-attack mix Deo-S and AV MixTTar on my team, so I guess my opponents sometimes send in a bad matchup against Char-Y expecting a Deo-S or TTar lead. I run Overheat over Fire Blast because it secures some OHKOs, and turns some 1-2 punches of Overheat->Flare Blitz into clean 2HKOs. Basically, you can just throw out an Overheat as soon as you send him out. Anything without Flash Fire won't enjoy taking it. The premier Flash Fire user can just be Earthquake'd.
Charizard (Charizard-Mega-Y) @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Hasty Nature
- Overheat
- Solar Beam
- Flare Blitz
- Earthquake
4 SpA Mega Charizard Y Overheat vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Landorus-T in Sun: 378-445 (98.9 - 116.4%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
4 SpA Mega Charizard Y Overheat vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield in Sun: 444-524 (137 - 161.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Mega Charizard Y Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 356-420 (92.2 - 108.8%) -- 50% chance to OHKO (They aren't usually this bulky, so this is closer to worst case scenario)
4 SpA Mega Charizard Y Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 246-290 (80.9 - 95.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Hydro Pump and Volt Switch do 60% and 77% max with 252 SpA+)
4 SpA Mega Charizard Y Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Rotom-W: 180-212 (59.2 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Hydro Pump and Volt Switch do 48% and 61% max with 0 SpA)
252 Atk Mega Charizard Y Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey in Sun: 333-393 (47.3 - 55.8%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Mega Charizard Y Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey in Sun: 459-540 (64.2 - 75.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Mega Charizard Y Overheat vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey in Sun: 241-285 (33.7 - 39.9%) -- 30.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (If Blissey switched into Overheat, the follow-up Flare Blitz will kill it)
4 SpA Mega Charizard Y Overheat vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Thick Fat Mega Venusaur in Sun: 270-318 (74.1 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Thick Fat Mega Venusaur in Sun: 270-318 (74.1 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (The usual Char-Y's damage to Venusaur-M)
252 Atk Mega Charizard Y Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Thick Fat Mega Venusaur in Sun: 212-252 (58.2 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Mega Charizard Y Overheat vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X in Sun: 90-106 (30.2 - 35.5%) -- 37.7% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Mega Charizard Y Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 170-202 (57 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Overheat+Earthquake total to 87.2 - 103.2% assuming you mispredicted and hit him with Overheat to start)
4 SpA Mega Charizard Y Overheat vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y in Sun: 140-165 (46.9 - 55.3%) -- 71.1% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Mega Charizard Y Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y in Sun: 155-183 (52 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Mega Charizard Y Overheat vs. 56 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem-B in Sun: 345-406 (85.1 - 100.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO (You need to invest 248 SpA EVs to actually secure this KO, but you lose a lot of Flare Blitz/Earthquake damage)
0 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-B Fusion Bolt vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Mega Charizard Y: 314-370 (105.7 - 124.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO (If Kyu-B took some chip damage prior, it dies. If both fight at 100%, Kyu-B with 56 Hp EVs lives Overheat usually and returns a OHKO)
252 Atk Mega Charizard Y Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tyranitar: 172-204 (42.5 - 50.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar: 292-348 (72.2 - 86.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (The usual 252 SpA Char-Y is stronger against Tyranitar by far)
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 196-232 (48.5 - 57.4%) -- 93.4% chance to 2HKO
4 SpA Mega Charizard Y Overheat vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame in Sun: 213-252 (71.4 - 84.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Mega Charizard Y: 322-381 (108.4 - 128.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Running Hasty nature since this is a mixed set means CB Talonflame with 252 Atk+ will always OHKO with Brave Bird)
Charizard (Charizard-Mega-Y) @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Hasty Nature
- Overheat
- Solar Beam
- Flare Blitz
- Earthquake
4 SpA Mega Charizard Y Overheat vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Landorus-T in Sun: 378-445 (98.9 - 116.4%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
4 SpA Mega Charizard Y Overheat vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield in Sun: 444-524 (137 - 161.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Mega Charizard Y Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 356-420 (92.2 - 108.8%) -- 50% chance to OHKO (They aren't usually this bulky, so this is closer to worst case scenario)
4 SpA Mega Charizard Y Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 246-290 (80.9 - 95.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Hydro Pump and Volt Switch do 60% and 77% max with 252 SpA+)
4 SpA Mega Charizard Y Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Rotom-W: 180-212 (59.2 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Hydro Pump and Volt Switch do 48% and 61% max with 0 SpA)
252 Atk Mega Charizard Y Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey in Sun: 333-393 (47.3 - 55.8%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Mega Charizard Y Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey in Sun: 459-540 (64.2 - 75.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Mega Charizard Y Overheat vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey in Sun: 241-285 (33.7 - 39.9%) -- 30.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (If Blissey switched into Overheat, the follow-up Flare Blitz will kill it)
4 SpA Mega Charizard Y Overheat vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Thick Fat Mega Venusaur in Sun: 270-318 (74.1 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Thick Fat Mega Venusaur in Sun: 270-318 (74.1 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (The usual Char-Y's damage to Venusaur-M)
252 Atk Mega Charizard Y Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Thick Fat Mega Venusaur in Sun: 212-252 (58.2 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Mega Charizard Y Overheat vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X in Sun: 90-106 (30.2 - 35.5%) -- 37.7% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Mega Charizard Y Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 170-202 (57 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Overheat+Earthquake total to 87.2 - 103.2% assuming you mispredicted and hit him with Overheat to start)
4 SpA Mega Charizard Y Overheat vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y in Sun: 140-165 (46.9 - 55.3%) -- 71.1% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Mega Charizard Y Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y in Sun: 155-183 (52 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Mega Charizard Y Overheat vs. 56 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem-B in Sun: 345-406 (85.1 - 100.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO (You need to invest 248 SpA EVs to actually secure this KO, but you lose a lot of Flare Blitz/Earthquake damage)
0 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-B Fusion Bolt vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Mega Charizard Y: 314-370 (105.7 - 124.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO (If Kyu-B took some chip damage prior, it dies. If both fight at 100%, Kyu-B with 56 Hp EVs lives Overheat usually and returns a OHKO)
252 Atk Mega Charizard Y Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tyranitar: 172-204 (42.5 - 50.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar: 292-348 (72.2 - 86.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (The usual 252 SpA Char-Y is stronger against Tyranitar by far)
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 196-232 (48.5 - 57.4%) -- 93.4% chance to 2HKO
4 SpA Mega Charizard Y Overheat vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame in Sun: 213-252 (71.4 - 84.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Mega Charizard Y: 322-381 (108.4 - 128.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Running Hasty nature since this is a mixed set means CB Talonflame with 252 Atk+ will always OHKO with Brave Bird)
Last edited:
I've been running a fairly similar build
Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 204 Atk / 52 SAtk / 252 Spd
Lonely Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Solar Beam
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
This set mostly focused purely on smashing stall and luring in chansey for the guaranteed 2HKO without rocks. With rocks can secure a couple more 2HKOs on "counters" to zard y like goodra and latias (although latias can outspeeds and heal but it is forced to recover giving opportunity to go to a trapper). Even with minor special attack investment zard-y hits like a truck against most unresistant mons like lando and gliscor. Been using this alongside RP lando who really likes the sun weakening water moves for setup opportunity and really appreciates the removal of or at least severe weakening of mons like chansey and stall over all.
Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 204 Atk / 52 SAtk / 252 Spd
Lonely Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Solar Beam
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
This set mostly focused purely on smashing stall and luring in chansey for the guaranteed 2HKO without rocks. With rocks can secure a couple more 2HKOs on "counters" to zard y like goodra and latias (although latias can outspeeds and heal but it is forced to recover giving opportunity to go to a trapper). Even with minor special attack investment zard-y hits like a truck against most unresistant mons like lando and gliscor. Been using this alongside RP lando who really likes the sun weakening water moves for setup opportunity and really appreciates the removal of or at least severe weakening of mons like chansey and stall over all.
- Status