because sand is literally everywhere.
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Resource LC Viability Rankings
- Thread starter Corporal Levi
- Start date
- Status
That isn't the case anymore. Sand sweeping is a very lackluster play style in Gen VI. It is very predictable since Drilbur must come in immediately after hippo in order to get the full effect, and has to run LO to do any real power. (You don't want to waste a turn setting up SD) This means it'll be quite frail and easy to pick off with priority or just stall out and outspeed. I'm not saying its not usable, but definitely not what was in Gen V. Drilbur is better off spinning or setting up rocks to support.
In addition to what's been said above, Sand Rush is an inferior ability to Mold Breaker on Drilbur unless you yourself run Hippoptas, as Mold Breaker allows Drillbur to OHKO Dwebble, who is arguably the best hazard setter.
I feel that Drilbur is A material, as it's a fantastic spinner, a threatening sweeper who can destroy unprepared teams after a swords dance and also has few easy switch-ins, and also fulfills the requirement of "not giving the opponent free turns" better than anything else in the meta in the case of Tirtouga and Dwebble, at least, as without hazards Drilbur is essentially the only Pokemon that can OHKO Tirtouga, because Cranidos loses to aqua jet.
Drilbur qualifies for A-rank on spinning alone, honestly. In a tier where Pawniard is one of the five greatest threats and an almost necessity for your own hazards, defog is less safe than rapid spin. The things that can block rapid spin are ghosts, and LC is not known for having a multitude of ghost types. Of the three most viable ones (Gastly, Honedge, and Misdreavus), two of them are weak to Mold Breaker Earthquake and Misdreavus is cleanly 2HKOed.
236 Atk Mold Breaker Drilbur Earthquake vs. 36 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Misdreavus: 12-15 (52.1 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Drilbur is, although not the fastest, the best spinner to handle spinblockers, and can also hold its own when there are no hazards to remove, making it A rank.
absdaddy
Banned deucer.
As weird as it may sound,i'd go with Onix to B, and here's why:
~17 speed grants Onix a speedtie with max spe(rare) Surskit/Dwebble giving it opportunity to Taunt them blocking Shell Smash, Rocks and Sticky Web.
~It has access to infamous SturdyJuice combo which can guarantee rocks
~Rock Blast Onix can actually beat Murkrow 1v1 including sets with sub,and that's pretty big considering how Murkrow is the biggest threat to many teams
~ability to kill hazard setters mentioned above ignoring Focus Sash(surskit/spinarak) or Sturdy(Dwebble), and that guarantees that Onix will setup hazards and opposing lead will not;
~good phazing move in Dragon Tail forcing your opponent to switch to a random ally can give you good amounts of momentum(free turn=rocks/another phaze) if matchup is bad for your opp
I agree that Onix is definitely not a top-notch pokemon in this metagame, but if your team struggles vs hazards and you cannot fit spin/defog in your team, AntiLead onix should not be overlooked. screw you mienfoo
Keep in mind that's my personal opinion,not a fact
~17 speed grants Onix a speedtie with max spe(rare) Surskit/Dwebble giving it opportunity to Taunt them blocking Shell Smash, Rocks and Sticky Web.
~It has access to infamous SturdyJuice combo which can guarantee rocks
~Rock Blast Onix can actually beat Murkrow 1v1 including sets with sub,and that's pretty big considering how Murkrow is the biggest threat to many teams
~ability to kill hazard setters mentioned above ignoring Focus Sash(surskit/spinarak) or Sturdy(Dwebble), and that guarantees that Onix will setup hazards and opposing lead will not;
~good phazing move in Dragon Tail forcing your opponent to switch to a random ally can give you good amounts of momentum(free turn=rocks/another phaze) if matchup is bad for your opp
I agree that Onix is definitely not a top-notch pokemon in this metagame, but if your team struggles vs hazards and you cannot fit spin/defog in your team, AntiLead onix should not be overlooked. screw you mienfoo
Keep in mind that's my personal opinion,not a fact
Brave Bird + Dark Pulse will 2HKO Onix unless you invest a lot into HP or Sdef. It's also extremely weak offensively and has a bad typing. I used a lot of Scarf Onix (Rock Blast/Explode/EQ/Stealth Rocks) when Calm Mind Murkrow was popular last generation, and yes it has a niche but it's not worthy of B rank.
Larvesta - A or B
I personally am a big fan of larvesta, since it is able to switch into pretty much every fighting type without stone edge, and pawniard and spread burn. It may have a 4X weakness to rock and stealth rock, but honestly the bug typing really helps it too, allowing you to get those fighting type resists. I think it is a fair trade considering that it is getting much easier to get rid of entry hazards with defog. Larvesta overall is a great burn spreader with the right support and has the perk of resisting fighting, unlike ponyta, which gives it a right for A rank with the horse.
Slowpoke - A or B
Slowpoke was one of the best physical walls out there, but it is starting to fall a bit thanks to the gligar ban. Slowpoke's biggest perk was that it could consistently wall gligar better than most pokemon, and it could also consistently wall meditite better than most pokemon. Now though it cannot do this, Meditite no longer has 4 Moveslot Syndrome, and that is killer for slowpoke. Thunderpunch now 2 hit ko's slowpoke, so now that both of slowpoke's big perks are gone, knock off is even more noticed with more fighting types, and the competition of other walls with other perks, Slowpoke just doesn't have the skills it had last round to stay A rank, and it should go down to B rank.
Torchic - A or B
Torchic should stay A rank, it is the best at what it does and it does that job quite well. It may not find itself on many teams because of the not-so-popular strategy of baton pass, but it is very viable on the right teams, and is best batonpasser bar none.
Drilbur - A or B
I used drilbur not too long ago on a team, and after using it I can say that it should drop to B rank. Drilbur is quite an offensive threat with the rapid spin support, but it just has so much competition with staryu, defog pokemon, and it really just can't keep up. If i am not mistaken it gets outsped/speedtie by chinchou, which doesn't help, and the sandstorm nerf takes away its ability to sweep with sand rush. Drilbur got nerfed pretty bad from this generation, and it should drop to B.
Cottonee - A or B
Cottonee is definitely A rank, it looks like a harmless cottonball, but in reality this thing stops evil fish, smashing turtles, and kung foo masters. In other words, it can wall and support most of the tier, being able to wall Tirtouga, Carvanha, Mienfoo, Timburr, and sometimes Meditite. Cottonee gets access to knock off, leech seed, encore, and even thunder wave, allowing it to support in multiple ways. With Cottonee's ability to wall multiple physical attackers while supporting the team in various ways, it definitely deserves A rank.
Shieldon - C or D: I haven't used this enough to give an opinion
Mantyke - B or C: Same as above
Shellder - B or C Same as above
Honedge C or B
Honedge is B rank for sure. It can easily wall some very potent threats like meditite and fletchling while also being a pretty powerful offensive threat. It has a cool option in swords dance, but where it really shines is its AutoBond set. With Automatize, Honedge now outspeeds most of the tier, and it can get the KO on many pokemon. But when you are about to die, you can use Destiny Bond and get a KO before you die. Honedge has the niche of completely stopping meditite, and it isn't a sitting duck either.
Darumaka- B or C: Just no. This thing sucks.
Lileep - B or C
Lileep is B rank potential for sure, with its great walling capabilities. It can wall tirtouga, carvanha, fletchling, murkrow, and misdreavus, while withering them down with toxic damage and giga drain. You can even get lucky with an ancient power and be unkillable. Lileep is also one of the most reliable stealth rocker out there, almost always getting stealth rock up before dying. Lileep is an incredible wall, with the only drawback as being weak to fighting types and pawniard.
I personally am a big fan of larvesta, since it is able to switch into pretty much every fighting type without stone edge, and pawniard and spread burn. It may have a 4X weakness to rock and stealth rock, but honestly the bug typing really helps it too, allowing you to get those fighting type resists. I think it is a fair trade considering that it is getting much easier to get rid of entry hazards with defog. Larvesta overall is a great burn spreader with the right support and has the perk of resisting fighting, unlike ponyta, which gives it a right for A rank with the horse.
Slowpoke - A or B
Slowpoke was one of the best physical walls out there, but it is starting to fall a bit thanks to the gligar ban. Slowpoke's biggest perk was that it could consistently wall gligar better than most pokemon, and it could also consistently wall meditite better than most pokemon. Now though it cannot do this, Meditite no longer has 4 Moveslot Syndrome, and that is killer for slowpoke. Thunderpunch now 2 hit ko's slowpoke, so now that both of slowpoke's big perks are gone, knock off is even more noticed with more fighting types, and the competition of other walls with other perks, Slowpoke just doesn't have the skills it had last round to stay A rank, and it should go down to B rank.
Torchic - A or B
Torchic should stay A rank, it is the best at what it does and it does that job quite well. It may not find itself on many teams because of the not-so-popular strategy of baton pass, but it is very viable on the right teams, and is best batonpasser bar none.
Drilbur - A or B
I used drilbur not too long ago on a team, and after using it I can say that it should drop to B rank. Drilbur is quite an offensive threat with the rapid spin support, but it just has so much competition with staryu, defog pokemon, and it really just can't keep up. If i am not mistaken it gets outsped/speedtie by chinchou, which doesn't help, and the sandstorm nerf takes away its ability to sweep with sand rush. Drilbur got nerfed pretty bad from this generation, and it should drop to B.
Cottonee - A or B
Cottonee is definitely A rank, it looks like a harmless cottonball, but in reality this thing stops evil fish, smashing turtles, and kung foo masters. In other words, it can wall and support most of the tier, being able to wall Tirtouga, Carvanha, Mienfoo, Timburr, and sometimes Meditite. Cottonee gets access to knock off, leech seed, encore, and even thunder wave, allowing it to support in multiple ways. With Cottonee's ability to wall multiple physical attackers while supporting the team in various ways, it definitely deserves A rank.
Shieldon - C or D: I haven't used this enough to give an opinion
Mantyke - B or C: Same as above
Shellder - B or C Same as above
Honedge C or B
Honedge is B rank for sure. It can easily wall some very potent threats like meditite and fletchling while also being a pretty powerful offensive threat. It has a cool option in swords dance, but where it really shines is its AutoBond set. With Automatize, Honedge now outspeeds most of the tier, and it can get the KO on many pokemon. But when you are about to die, you can use Destiny Bond and get a KO before you die. Honedge has the niche of completely stopping meditite, and it isn't a sitting duck either.
Darumaka- B or C: Just no. This thing sucks.
Lileep - B or C
Lileep is B rank potential for sure, with its great walling capabilities. It can wall tirtouga, carvanha, fletchling, murkrow, and misdreavus, while withering them down with toxic damage and giga drain. You can even get lucky with an ancient power and be unkillable. Lileep is also one of the most reliable stealth rocker out there, almost always getting stealth rock up before dying. Lileep is an incredible wall, with the only drawback as being weak to fighting types and pawniard.
Torchic is B rank right now, not A rank. Torchic deserves B rank because while it can net you 6-0 win, maybe 25% of the time it's 100% useless mon, so it's a high risk high reward playstyle, which never condones A rank.
I agree here, most battles I've seen with torchic have fell apart for the user. Its incredibly predictable to see what's coming and rather easy to prepare for. Nevertheless, Torchic is arguably the best (if not, the easiest) baton passer in LC at the moment.
its because its not bulky enough to find time to set up and without a life orb you arent nearly strong enough. also its just outclassed by things like carvanha and corphpish who just do it better
Ok thanks one more question since i really like totodile, is sheer force legal?
Totodile only gets Torrent unfortunately :(
well that sucks totodile and feraligatr would both really appreciate sheer force :[
Question: if you're running rock blast, why can't you OHKO focus sash surskit/spinarak? I can see Onix not having the power to take down Dwebble, but it seems that it should be able to cleanly knock out surskit or spinarak. Or am I just vastly overestimating Onix's shitty attack and the low base power of rock blast?
Delver
I got the runs like Jagger
Just ran calcs on it:
1) most onix's use stone edge. take that for what its worth.
2) at minimum, rock blast does 76% to surskit (low rolls (8) on two strikes. One high roll results in a OHKO.
3) with 5 hits and no high rolls, it does 142.8% (6 damage 5 times) to dwebble. with berry juice; it looks like this: (21-6-6+12-6-6-6) which leaves them ith 3 hp. I found it really funny that even 1 high roll will leave them with 1 hp (the high roll does 8). So - onix leaves dwebble relatively useless, but dwebble can still get rocks down at least.
note i just used the usage sets, so take that as you will.
to pretend like I'm still relevant:
Larvesta's role is the same as last gen's it works as a fighting counter cause its flame body is a 70% chance burn (thats a joke). I dont like it as much as a lot of things because murkrow is still a thing but hell it can even eat a brave bird and burn it so its good there. I dont like it, but that doesnt make it bad
Slowpoke walls a lot less than I think people realize, as far as physical fighters go. Mienfoo has buffed knock off and uturn, Scraggy has dark sub typing, pawniard is pawniard, and mega tits gets access to thunder punch. Timburr gets payback. Murkrow has Dark pulse. honedge is also a ghost. The list goes on. yeah. I honestly think Knock off pretty much killed this mon. Still its fat as fuck, has slack off and regenerator and spreads relevant statuses as if its got a job in public relations (oh look another joke So topical.), so if played well it'll stick around. defintely a B teir mon imo.
Torchic is a gimmick and I stand by that. It will carry you through the lower ladder but once you go against people who know how to deal with it, your W/L will plummet.
Drilbur has yet to really differentiate himself from the other league of outclassed spinners (hi staryu) once the defog got buffed. Vullaby is the best anti hazards in the teir atm IMO.
I have not yet to see anyone actually use Cottonee, and the ony time i used it Bri 1hko'd it in a brilliant display of me being bad
shieldon: People use this?
Mantyke: I think its all hype. I've seen some redonculus calcs for it, but have yet to really care about its existence on an oposing team. Could just be my comp but its not like I'm running a lot of mantyke hate. I thnik its just that special attackers are a lot less common than physical.
Shellder: No longer a good smasher because it lacks Sturdy. Thats really all it lost IMO. Its scarf set is no less relevant, imo. Its major issuse is all the shit that resists its non-Stabs that you want to revenge.
Honedge: All hype. "It beats meditite". So do things that actually help your team. Honedge has a garbage ability, and a garbage move pool. Access to Swords Dance and some coverage moves does not make a sweeper.
Darumaka: hustle. garbage. Preach it ashley.
Lileep: Lileep is the best tentacle mosnter in LC. suffers from typical rock type weaknesses, but has an immunity to water and walls smashers like a champ.
Didnt give where i think shit belongs cause i havent laddered long enough to really figure out what works and what just works against me. This is just my thoughts on the LC mons we're currently talkin abuot.
Just to clear this up, I wasn't necessarily advocating that; I was just pointing out that the guy was saying Onix couldn't KO surskit with a focus sash, yet the post before he'd written:
... yeah, I get it now. *is smart*
Also, in your post, do any Timburr run payback anymore? I feel like most of them are running Knock Off instead. I guess payback could help against the odd berry juice user after berry juice has been consumed, but I still feel it's a touch outclassed.
For Drillbur, I think you've got to consider the fact that Pawinard is running around to absorb defog, plus teams who attempt to stack hazards will prefer having the rapid spin + defog blocker. It's not much, but it's certainly a niche; then again, "niche" would make it C tier, even if it is the best spinner; between A and B I definitely have to opt for Drillbur in 'B'.
Lastly: Lileep can have some problems with smashers; a fair number Tirtouga are running Ice Beam to deal with slightly damaged Tangela. I'd have to see calcs against Lileep (both with and without Eviolite) to see if it actually did hard counter Tir, but I'm guessing even with eviolite ice beam'll do over 50%, especially if you're physically EV trained to deal with said smashers. I may be way off in that (I've never used Tir) but again I'd have to see calcs to know anything for sure.
Oh, hehe. I thought you were saying "It can always KO Surskit, ignoring focus sash variants." When really you were saying "Rock blast ignores focus sash so it can KO." Tricky wording, my bad :P
Tangela is banned and Ice Beam in neutral to Lileep.
+2 252+ SpA Tirtouga Ice Beam vs. 228 HP / 60 SpD Eviolite Lileep: 18-22 (69.2 - 84.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(Of course Tirt won't go max Sp.A, I wasn't sure what Sp.A it ran so I just maxed it for reference I guess)
It'll just heal right back through Giga Drain.
Right forgot about the Tangela ban. Too recent for my lc experience lol.
But Ice Beam hits Lileep super effectively... it hits rock neutrally and hits grass super effectively.
If you want proof, have a bulbapedia page: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Lileep_(Pokémon)
No Lileep is weak to ice. Rock does not resist ice. Either way, it wouldn't be worth it for Tirtouga to max it's special attack for Lileep. The problem is Dwebble, who hits lileep super-effectively with X-Scissor.
Oh right. Thats one thing I always get mixed up on. Nevertheless, Tirtouga ice beam isn't reliable against lileep.
Yeah, well I doubt people will run it now that we lost Tangela. That was really the whole purpose of Ice Beam Tirtouga (can you honestly hear anyone saying "Yes! I'm gonna run Ice Beam for Lileep!"?)
Okay i wanna be a part of this~
Larvesta - A or B (B)
Larvesta is a strong scarfer with autoburn Flame Body as an ability. It's ability to shutdown Spritzee is very notable since there arent many mons who can force Spritzee out. Although v weak to SR and Slow as all can be. But makes a reliable check to most fighting mons (not you machop or timburr) and decimates with scarf. Cant beat most of LC with scarf on it's own tho and that really hurts it.
Slowpoke - A or B (B)
Slowpoke is a fantastic phsyical wall with a gigantic movepool. TWave + scald = Beware status scared mons! Regen is also a godsend. Altho Slowpoke is tanky as hell, it's still shutdown by Knock Off and it faces the speed issue many walls face. Being weak to common Dark type moves really hamper walling capabilities
Torchic - A or B (B)
All you do is SD/Sub/FE/Curse/BP to someone else. Pure support mon if you ask me. Now the Cursing set i've heard good shit about but i've never seen one sweep so someone should yknow, use it or tell me the set/evs so i can spam it.
Drilbur - A or B (B)
Your best friend Sand is reduced to nothing but it's not all bad. Mold Breaker EQ kills sturdyjuicers, SD with so many attacking move, some speed. Everythign is gunna be alright~
Cottonee - A or B (A)
Support errything By shutting down the fearsome set up sweepers and paralyzing them. That new x4 weakness to Poison hurts and with everyone gunning for Spritzee, You're SOL. But the bulk and support is real and much appriciated.
Shieldon - C or D (C)
I think Syan said you were like the shit and this was Pre Gligar/Swirlix ban. What do you even do? (SR/ Magic Coat/ Sturdy/ Metal Burst trollery/balk) DAMN good enough for a support mon
Mantyke - B or C (C)
Another mon with a ton of balk and not much else. RD set is sexy SR/ x4 Elec weak is not sexy however... Do you even get Defog? if you did that would bump you up in my book~
Shellder - B or C (C)
My favorite SSer since Eviolite helps it not die off and the multihit bs is real. However slow af with the SS and that's no good. Also people need to start realizing that Shellder makes a good troll support mon with it's acess to all spikes/toxic spikes and rapid spin.
Honedge C or B (C)
Excalipoor isnt as good as it's daddy in OU because the Knock offs are real and no Holy heavently -2 Atk only guarding Protect. If you were gen 5, You would be top teir, giving Missy a run for her money. Still tanky and worth using if you want to bash shit with a blade.
Darumaka- B or C (C)
i have one complaint. HUSTLE MISSES. Accolades for powerful truck with Flare Blitz/Superpower/Rock filler/U-Turn. Pity you're slow and Scarf is your only way in. I guess Sticky + Wide Lens would be noice.
Lileep - B or C (B)
This oldfag just doesnt die. Can run phys or spcl and doesnt give two shits unless you're a fighting type iwth knock off. Thirsty af and loves the ocean. Stockpile set is nasty and hard to beat once it's up.
Feel free to agree/disagree
EDIT: i never remember what Lileep is weak to... Ice/Steel/Fight... what the fuck else?
Larvesta - A or B (B)
Larvesta is a strong scarfer with autoburn Flame Body as an ability. It's ability to shutdown Spritzee is very notable since there arent many mons who can force Spritzee out. Although v weak to SR and Slow as all can be. But makes a reliable check to most fighting mons (not you machop or timburr) and decimates with scarf. Cant beat most of LC with scarf on it's own tho and that really hurts it.
Slowpoke - A or B (B)
Slowpoke is a fantastic phsyical wall with a gigantic movepool. TWave + scald = Beware status scared mons! Regen is also a godsend. Altho Slowpoke is tanky as hell, it's still shutdown by Knock Off and it faces the speed issue many walls face. Being weak to common Dark type moves really hamper walling capabilities
Torchic - A or B (B)
All you do is SD/Sub/FE/Curse/BP to someone else. Pure support mon if you ask me. Now the Cursing set i've heard good shit about but i've never seen one sweep so someone should yknow, use it or tell me the set/evs so i can spam it.
Drilbur - A or B (B)
Your best friend Sand is reduced to nothing but it's not all bad. Mold Breaker EQ kills sturdyjuicers, SD with so many attacking move, some speed. Everythign is gunna be alright~
Cottonee - A or B (A)
Support errything By shutting down the fearsome set up sweepers and paralyzing them. That new x4 weakness to Poison hurts and with everyone gunning for Spritzee, You're SOL. But the bulk and support is real and much appriciated.
Shieldon - C or D (C)
I think Syan said you were like the shit and this was Pre Gligar/Swirlix ban. What do you even do? (SR/ Magic Coat/ Sturdy/ Metal Burst trollery/balk) DAMN good enough for a support mon
Mantyke - B or C (C)
Another mon with a ton of balk and not much else. RD set is sexy SR/ x4 Elec weak is not sexy however... Do you even get Defog? if you did that would bump you up in my book~
Shellder - B or C (C)
My favorite SSer since Eviolite helps it not die off and the multihit bs is real. However slow af with the SS and that's no good. Also people need to start realizing that Shellder makes a good troll support mon with it's acess to all spikes/toxic spikes and rapid spin.
Honedge C or B (C)
Excalipoor isnt as good as it's daddy in OU because the Knock offs are real and no Holy heavently -2 Atk only guarding Protect. If you were gen 5, You would be top teir, giving Missy a run for her money. Still tanky and worth using if you want to bash shit with a blade.
Darumaka- B or C (C)
i have one complaint. HUSTLE MISSES. Accolades for powerful truck with Flare Blitz/Superpower/Rock filler/U-Turn. Pity you're slow and Scarf is your only way in. I guess Sticky + Wide Lens would be noice.
Lileep - B or C (B)
This oldfag just doesnt die. Can run phys or spcl and doesnt give two shits unless you're a fighting type iwth knock off. Thirsty af and loves the ocean. Stockpile set is nasty and hard to beat once it's up.
Feel free to agree/disagree
EDIT: i never remember what Lileep is weak to... Ice/Steel/Fight... what the fuck else?
Weak to Ice, Fighting, Bug, and Steel.
>Has the two types that have 5 weaknesses, only ends up with 4
>Has the two types that have 5 weaknesses, only ends up with 4
- Status