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XY UU Viability Ranking Thread
- Thread starter Limitless
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Klefki is just good. It was better when we still had swagger so randoms on the ladder would forfeit when they saw it but priority spikes and screens is awesome. It's a great hazard setter for offensive teams because it can rely on it's actually pretty decent bulk and good defensive typing to get up usually a couple layers of spikes or screens, while it can t-wave pokemon that try and set up on it.
I'm going to be a total inconclusive bastard here, but I'd feel guilty giving Klefki a definitive ranking without having played with it (or against it tbh) much after the drop. However, I would like to talk about its specific strengths that haven't really taken hold yet, but are harder to quantify.
Now that SwagPlay is gone, the most reasonable way of assessing Klefki is by comparing it to Meowstic. Both have access to many of the same moves and prankster - most notably Thunder Wave, Reflect, Light Screen, Rain Dance, Sunny Day, Toxic, Switcheroo/Trick, and Substitute. So then, where do these mons differ?
1. Typing. Klefki wins this one hands down. Steel Fairy is pretty great defensive typing, allowing a host of immunities and resistances. Psychic is paltry at best this gen with all the knock off running around.
2. Stats. Surprisingly, Meowstic actually wins this one. Its superior HP makes up for its slightly inferior defensive stats, and it has higher special attack and significantly higher speed. +1 for the kitty.
3. Movepool. While Meowstic has access to the somewhat useful Yawn and Trick Room, Klefki has access to Spikes, allowing it to set up hazards as well as status and screens. Klefki wins this one too.
So then, it's clear that for the majority of teams, Klefki is somewhat better. Although it lost its most recognizable niche in SwagPlay, it certainly fills a niche in the metagame as either a spiker or a dual-screener. (I'm hesitant to suggest that Klefki can reliably fill both roles, as it isn't tanky enough to take too many hits without screens and setting up hazards while screens are up is a bit dodgy, and very defog-prone.)
Aaaaaaaaand shit. Here was the point in the post where I was going to say "Meowstic is ranked X, and because Klefki is a little bit better, it should be ranked X+1 or so".
Until I realized meowstic hasn't been ranked yet.
So, um, I guess, in conclusion, Klefki is currently the premier prankster screen-setter in the tier due to his access to spikes and his superior typing. I'll update this post when I have more of an idea of how effective he can be.
Now that SwagPlay is gone, the most reasonable way of assessing Klefki is by comparing it to Meowstic. Both have access to many of the same moves and prankster - most notably Thunder Wave, Reflect, Light Screen, Rain Dance, Sunny Day, Toxic, Switcheroo/Trick, and Substitute. So then, where do these mons differ?
1. Typing. Klefki wins this one hands down. Steel Fairy is pretty great defensive typing, allowing a host of immunities and resistances. Psychic is paltry at best this gen with all the knock off running around.
2. Stats. Surprisingly, Meowstic actually wins this one. Its superior HP makes up for its slightly inferior defensive stats, and it has higher special attack and significantly higher speed. +1 for the kitty.
3. Movepool. While Meowstic has access to the somewhat useful Yawn and Trick Room, Klefki has access to Spikes, allowing it to set up hazards as well as status and screens. Klefki wins this one too.
So then, it's clear that for the majority of teams, Klefki is somewhat better. Although it lost its most recognizable niche in SwagPlay, it certainly fills a niche in the metagame as either a spiker or a dual-screener. (I'm hesitant to suggest that Klefki can reliably fill both roles, as it isn't tanky enough to take too many hits without screens and setting up hazards while screens are up is a bit dodgy, and very defog-prone.)
Aaaaaaaaand shit. Here was the point in the post where I was going to say "Meowstic is ranked X, and because Klefki is a little bit better, it should be ranked X+1 or so".
Until I realized meowstic hasn't been ranked yet.
So, um, I guess, in conclusion, Klefki is currently the premier prankster screen-setter in the tier due to his access to spikes and his superior typing. I'll update this post when I have more of an idea of how effective he can be.
Another thing on the point of Klefki vs Meowstic is that Klefki gets access to Foul Play, which is definitely another +1 in Klefkis favour.
Klefki's typing is great and can wall some pretty big threats, the biggest one in my mind is Honchkrow atm. Though it has its draw backs in a weakness to Fire and Ground which kinda sucks in UU. Prankster T-Wave is really good and definitely one of its winning characteristics, being one of the better users of it. But it can let a few Electric Pokemon slip through, most notably Mega-Manectric which can Klefki can't do much to, and Manectric carries strong Fire attacks.
In terms of offensive presence then, asides from T-Wave (which I consider a strong part of an offensive presence against a lot of Pokemon) it is pretty much limited to Foul Play and Play Rough. Not much to work with but can nail quite a few switch-ins, otherwise it is one of Klefki's major drawbacks.
Now, Klefki's winning features definitely lie in its access to priority T-Wave, Screens and Spikes (though I guess priority Spikes doesn't matter too much). Definitely the best user in the tier of the first 2 moves thanks to its typing and Spikes i just a great additional option to abuse.
The last problem with Klefki is its lack of recovery which really limits it.
In the end though, Klefki does a rather consistent job of para spreading, screen setting and spike-stacking. Therefore, taking in all this I think it would deserve a B+ ranking, considering its rather noticeable flaws but its standout strengths allow it to be rather consistent.
Klefki's typing is great and can wall some pretty big threats, the biggest one in my mind is Honchkrow atm. Though it has its draw backs in a weakness to Fire and Ground which kinda sucks in UU. Prankster T-Wave is really good and definitely one of its winning characteristics, being one of the better users of it. But it can let a few Electric Pokemon slip through, most notably Mega-Manectric which can Klefki can't do much to, and Manectric carries strong Fire attacks.
In terms of offensive presence then, asides from T-Wave (which I consider a strong part of an offensive presence against a lot of Pokemon) it is pretty much limited to Foul Play and Play Rough. Not much to work with but can nail quite a few switch-ins, otherwise it is one of Klefki's major drawbacks.
Now, Klefki's winning features definitely lie in its access to priority T-Wave, Screens and Spikes (though I guess priority Spikes doesn't matter too much). Definitely the best user in the tier of the first 2 moves thanks to its typing and Spikes i just a great additional option to abuse.
The last problem with Klefki is its lack of recovery which really limits it.
In the end though, Klefki does a rather consistent job of para spreading, screen setting and spike-stacking. Therefore, taking in all this I think it would deserve a B+ ranking, considering its rather noticeable flaws but its standout strengths allow it to be rather consistent.
Not exactly. Assume a 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef Careful / Calm spread for both, and you get these calcs:
252+ SpA Mega Launcher Mega Blastoise Water Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Klefki: 132-156 (41.5 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Mega Launcher Mega Blastoise Water Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Meowstic: 136-162 (38.6 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Sharpedo Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Klefki: 191-226 (60 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Sharpedo Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Meowstic: 220-261 (62.5 - 74.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
The difference in bulk is negligible, Meowstic has slightly higher special bulk and Klefki has slightly higher physical bulk. Klefki has a much better typing though which gives it a lot more switchin opportunities (I haven't played UU really but a lot of the top threats have a move where Klefki can switch in on with no fear, and set up 1 layer of Spikes or status the sweeper. The same doesn't go for Meowstic since it has pretty much no resistances). Also, Spikes is really big since Klefki can do more than just Thunder Wave and Toxic throughout the match.
Mega-Houndoom for A+
MegaDoom is a major offensive pokemon this gen with its incredible offensive typing and high speed. It has just enough bulk to take Non-STAB EQs, and very few walls can come in and surive the 2HKO on a +2 MegaDoom. The real problem with MegaDoom is the rampant Fighting/Ground types in UU. These give it major problems switching in. Its weak to SR which limits its switchins even more. Common scarfers dont mind MegaDoom setting up and can come in for an easy OHKO (Heracross, Mienshao, Darmanitan, Flygon, Nidoking and Krookodile to name a few) It also has problems with faster pokemon like (Mega)Aerodactyl and Noivern.Also CB Hitmontop shits on it. As a Special wallbreaker it also has to compete with the Nidos, which have greater coverage and better defensive typing, and Chandelure, which does not need setup to be an offensive treath. Megadoom cannot beat CroCune 1v1 without a Crit
Despite these flaws MegaDoom is a major offensive threat in The current metagame, but it has flaws that keep it from being S-rank.
MegaDoom is a major offensive pokemon this gen with its incredible offensive typing and high speed. It has just enough bulk to take Non-STAB EQs, and very few walls can come in and surive the 2HKO on a +2 MegaDoom. The real problem with MegaDoom is the rampant Fighting/Ground types in UU. These give it major problems switching in. Its weak to SR which limits its switchins even more. Common scarfers dont mind MegaDoom setting up and can come in for an easy OHKO (Heracross, Mienshao, Darmanitan, Flygon, Nidoking and Krookodile to name a few) It also has problems with faster pokemon like (Mega)Aerodactyl and Noivern.
Despite these flaws MegaDoom is a major offensive threat in The current metagame, but it has flaws that keep it from being S-rank.
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Mega Houndoom for A / A+
Many above me have already stated why he's good, yadda yadda. Insane wallbreaking potential, hits like a monster, can setup on a lot of mons and is almost unstoppable as a late-game sweeper. However, he's just not on an S-Rank level of strength. He does require significant support before he can really get momentum going as you really need to clear fighting types and bulky waters (namely Suicune) before he can do his job without very clear pressure, he's weak to stealth rocks (although this isn't the biggest deal), is checked by a plethora of mons that are quick (and there are a lot of fast mons in UU) and is one of the easiest megas to revenge KO via Flygon / Heracross / Darmanitan / etc. He has solid bulk but not enough to the point he's happy taking SE hits for you anytime soon unless you're under screen support, so he isn't exactly comfortable switching into most mons in the tier. His Nasty Plot set has lots of trouble with bulky waters. While his Solar Power set's solarbeam can remedy this, it's a borderline kamikaze run since Megadoom completely rips itself apart in only a couple turns this way.
Fantastic mon, no doubt, one of the best in UU. But not S rank.
Many above me have already stated why he's good, yadda yadda. Insane wallbreaking potential, hits like a monster, can setup on a lot of mons and is almost unstoppable as a late-game sweeper. However, he's just not on an S-Rank level of strength. He does require significant support before he can really get momentum going as you really need to clear fighting types and bulky waters (namely Suicune) before he can do his job without very clear pressure, he's weak to stealth rocks (although this isn't the biggest deal), is checked by a plethora of mons that are quick (and there are a lot of fast mons in UU) and is one of the easiest megas to revenge KO via Flygon / Heracross / Darmanitan / etc. He has solid bulk but not enough to the point he's happy taking SE hits for you anytime soon unless you're under screen support, so he isn't exactly comfortable switching into most mons in the tier. His Nasty Plot set has lots of trouble with bulky waters. While his Solar Power set's solarbeam can remedy this, it's a borderline kamikaze run since Megadoom completely rips itself apart in only a couple turns this way.
Fantastic mon, no doubt, one of the best in UU. But not S rank.
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Mega-Houndoom for A+
Arch and Yellow Cheese have already mentioned that Mega-Houndoom's Speed is a majority of the reasoning behind keeping Mega-Houndoom out of S-Rank. However, as I've used it, I've found that it heavily relies on being set up to do any decent form of damage. If it's not set up, it's no more threatening than Chandelure, something anyone who played BW is already heavily accustomed to. I personally hate running Sludge Bomb on my Mega-Houndoom, seeing that it's only good for one Pokemon in specific, and Destiny Bond without Prankster is kinda underwhelming, as most things I'd find myself using it against would typically be scarfed, mildly defeating the purpose. Klefki existing is also a huge thorn in Mega-Houndoom's side as well; Prankster Thunder Wave, Spikes, and Light Screen all severely hurt Mega-Houndoom, as all three detriment it one way or another (slows it down severely, makes it more vulnerable to weaker revenge killers / Sucker Punch maybe, and "weakens" its special attacks).
Klefki for A-
Nidoqueen / Nidoking, as well as Electric-types, Florges / Umbreon, Forretress, and Defog users are way too common right now for Klefki, who's lost access to Swagger, to find itself truly succeeding in Underused right now. It's still an amazing Spiker and Screens Setter, but it cannot do both at the same time currently, since the metagame is really prepared (read overhyping and doing anything possible to stop it) for Klefki at the moment. If you run a Screens set with Spikes and Thunder Wave, as most if not everybody has been, Klefki is extremely vulnerable to Taunt (I use Light Clay > Mental Herb) and lacks any staying power because of how quickly it can be worn down. In my honest opinion, Deoxys-D perfected the "end-all-be-all" hazards lead in BW, and Klefki tried - and failed - to fill those shoes. We overhyped it, and I'm really disappointed in how easily the metagame rolls over it right now.
While I'm here, I'm going to suggest we make one more change to S-Rank. Suicune for A+ Rank. Even as both a strong supporter and good user of Suicune (read Royalty's Suicune Check, Darmanitan), it's outdone by CM Slowbro, who doesn't have to rely on the gamble that is RestTalk to heal, and packs a second coverage move, allowing it to bypass opposing Crocune or CM Slowbro. The only advantage to using Suicune is that you also become "immune" to status, thanks to Rest, but Slack Off does the whole restoring HP then being able to do something after a whole lot better. At the same time, the metagame, or at least the higher ladder, is pretty well prepared for Suicune at the moment. Between the Electric or Grass-types and the Trick users, Suicune doesn't have a lot of staying power in the higher levels of contention. I'd also like to add that Slowbro should retain its S-Rank position (as the above logic and be applied both ways), as it's still an excellent Physical Tank.
Arch and Yellow Cheese have already mentioned that Mega-Houndoom's Speed is a majority of the reasoning behind keeping Mega-Houndoom out of S-Rank. However, as I've used it, I've found that it heavily relies on being set up to do any decent form of damage. If it's not set up, it's no more threatening than Chandelure, something anyone who played BW is already heavily accustomed to. I personally hate running Sludge Bomb on my Mega-Houndoom, seeing that it's only good for one Pokemon in specific, and Destiny Bond without Prankster is kinda underwhelming, as most things I'd find myself using it against would typically be scarfed, mildly defeating the purpose. Klefki existing is also a huge thorn in Mega-Houndoom's side as well; Prankster Thunder Wave, Spikes, and Light Screen all severely hurt Mega-Houndoom, as all three detriment it one way or another (slows it down severely, makes it more vulnerable to weaker revenge killers / Sucker Punch maybe, and "weakens" its special attacks).
Klefki for A-
Nidoqueen / Nidoking, as well as Electric-types, Florges / Umbreon, Forretress, and Defog users are way too common right now for Klefki, who's lost access to Swagger, to find itself truly succeeding in Underused right now. It's still an amazing Spiker and Screens Setter, but it cannot do both at the same time currently, since the metagame is really prepared (read overhyping and doing anything possible to stop it) for Klefki at the moment. If you run a Screens set with Spikes and Thunder Wave, as most if not everybody has been, Klefki is extremely vulnerable to Taunt (I use Light Clay > Mental Herb) and lacks any staying power because of how quickly it can be worn down. In my honest opinion, Deoxys-D perfected the "end-all-be-all" hazards lead in BW, and Klefki tried - and failed - to fill those shoes. We overhyped it, and I'm really disappointed in how easily the metagame rolls over it right now.
While I'm here, I'm going to suggest we make one more change to S-Rank. Suicune for A+ Rank. Even as both a strong supporter and good user of Suicune (read Royalty's Suicune Check, Darmanitan), it's outdone by CM Slowbro, who doesn't have to rely on the gamble that is RestTalk to heal, and packs a second coverage move, allowing it to bypass opposing Crocune or CM Slowbro. The only advantage to using Suicune is that you also become "immune" to status, thanks to Rest, but Slack Off does the whole restoring HP then being able to do something after a whole lot better. At the same time, the metagame, or at least the higher ladder, is pretty well prepared for Suicune at the moment. Between the Electric or Grass-types and the Trick users, Suicune doesn't have a lot of staying power in the higher levels of contention. I'd also like to add that Slowbro should retain its S-Rank position (as the above logic and be applied both ways), as it's still an excellent Physical Tank.
Echoing these points, would be redundant to present them again.
Klefki also has another nice roll it can fill. It has access to Priority rain dance, along with spikes and Thunder wave/ Screens It could be a pretty amazing supporter in that regard. Another thing to note is that it has really good synergy with Kingdra, forming a deadly pair when it can come in on a resisted hit and setup again. The item choice is up to you. I'd personally go with Damp Rock as Kingdra/ Insert Rain Dancer here really wont be taking many hits in the first place and would really love the extra 3 turns.
Klefki A -- great typing, prankster is always good, can actually use offensive sets in UU and do work with it
MHoundoom A+ -- really powerful but all of the most common scarfers can revenge him, hard to get a sweep
MHoundoom A+ -- really powerful but all of the most common scarfers can revenge him, hard to get a sweep
The fuck? Has someone been watching Verlisify again or is this a joke?
I've used Klefki as a rain setter for my rain team and it really is one of the best rain setters in UU.
But I do still agree with A-; it's very versatile and provides very good support, but with the number of great pokemon that don't mind or are outright immune to Thunder Wave, one of the best support options Klefki has, is pretty high. And all of its other support options (Screens and Spikes) are just sort of nice. It just doesn't really "feel" like an S-rank; Mazz worded it better than I can.
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Maybe offensive is the wrong word, but CM Klefki fucked my shit up when I didn't expect it. It plays like CroCune.
It just doesn't work. Klefki was not meant to sweep. Typing is nice but nothing stops opponents from just switching to a Ground/Fire type, or just something that resist the weak Draining Kiss. Suicune can pull this off because who uses physical Grass or Electric moves that can actually beat it 1v1? Nothing (in theory lol), except Rawst Berry Electivire that gets 2 crits. Everything runs Earthquake or Flare Blitz or something in this tier.
Of course it has more counters and it's not as good in general as Suicune, that's why he's not S rank. It's definitely usable tho. I just lost to it today at 1600 rating. You expect a support set so you don't plan for it, and then gg
Calm Mind Suicune is so effective because it weakens the common super effective attacks that hit it on the special side (Thunderbolt, Giga Drain), and can burn with Scald to threaten those that do strike it (Chesnaught, Virizion). Calm Mind Klefki just cannot do much of any sort of setup since it will be easily forced out by Flare Blitz, V-Create, and especially Earthquake (hint: almost every team has this move), and it cannot contribute much with its unboosted attacks.
The fuck is that? I made great points. You can't delete my rational argument and then leave up posts like that that make random assumptions. At the very least, delete that post that says I lost to a mono attacking drain kiss Klefki. That's not what happened and it's fucking stupid that I can't explain my point or defend myself.
If you're gonna delete the argument, delete all of it.
If you're gonna delete the argument, delete all of it.
I won't delete the whole thing, since most of it was pretty civil. In fact, your "rational argument" can be summed up in one of your previous posts, as it defends your position
The important part is bolded. However, similar to something like "Special Scizor" in OU, surprise factor can only get someone so far, and CM Klefki runs out of road in that department very quickly before it starts becoming more of a liability than useful. Now, this discussion needn't continue, so let's talk about something else now, shall we?
Anyway, Mega Houndoom is still a threat, it's just so easily beaten by things like Suicune or walled by Florges. (who still lives a +2 Sludge Bomb but can't OHKO with Moonblast without SR or prior damage) It unfortunately can't run all of Sludge Bomb, Taunt, Will-O-Wisp (which is actually not that bad) or for everyone who loves to run gimmicky moves that are fun but pretty bad, Snatch/Foul Play. Not saying it's bad, just not amazing.
gonna go off-topic while y'all are having an argument over fucking cm klefki regardless of how much bp the move has (it's not that hard to deal with : ^) )
Nominating Galvantula for B+ or A-
There's one reason I'm proposing this, and it should be fairly obvious: Sticky Web. I fucking hate this thing, because it's so good against offensive teams. Sure, Galv has shitty defenses and you could sneeze on it and it would faint, but it usually carries sash so SW is guarenteed to come up unless you've used fake out, or priority taunt.
Now, why is this being nommed? It's a suicide lead, right? Well, here's one thing. Unlike the other poster child of muh hazards, Smeargle, Galvantula can actually do more than just set up hazards. It has a great speed at 108, and while its Special Attack isn't godlike at 97, it has such a great ability in Compound Eyes, which gives some massive firepower in a 91% accurate Thunder. When this is coupled with another great offensive STAB in Bug, and either the ability to hit bulky ground types like Swampert hard with Giga Drain, or scouting potential in Volt Switch, you're all set.
But there's another reason why Galv is vastly underestimated, and that's the fact that it gives offensive teams massive support. Once you set up hazards and it dies or you switch it out, you can send in mons that enjoy the opposing side having -1 speed (most notably things that hit like a fucking truck and punch holes through teams like Exploud or Porygon-Z), which deal large chunks to offensive teams, which virtually cannot deal with it unless they have a spinner or defogger (which is funny because Galv does a number to most of them), or just running stall in general.
Nominating Galvantula for B+ or A-
There's one reason I'm proposing this, and it should be fairly obvious: Sticky Web. I fucking hate this thing, because it's so good against offensive teams. Sure, Galv has shitty defenses and you could sneeze on it and it would faint, but it usually carries sash so SW is guarenteed to come up unless you've used fake out, or priority taunt.
Now, why is this being nommed? It's a suicide lead, right? Well, here's one thing. Unlike the other poster child of muh hazards, Smeargle, Galvantula can actually do more than just set up hazards. It has a great speed at 108, and while its Special Attack isn't godlike at 97, it has such a great ability in Compound Eyes, which gives some massive firepower in a 91% accurate Thunder. When this is coupled with another great offensive STAB in Bug, and either the ability to hit bulky ground types like Swampert hard with Giga Drain, or scouting potential in Volt Switch, you're all set.
But there's another reason why Galv is vastly underestimated, and that's the fact that it gives offensive teams massive support. Once you set up hazards and it dies or you switch it out, you can send in mons that enjoy the opposing side having -1 speed (most notably things that hit like a fucking truck and punch holes through teams like Exploud or Porygon-Z), which deal large chunks to offensive teams, which virtually cannot deal with it unless they have a spinner or defogger (which is funny because Galv does a number to most of them), or just running stall in general.
And now you deleted my response to this? Yeah, best to save face. Don't want some random guy who makes a good point to look like he's smarter than the mod.
Good point? CM klefki is a gimick, nothing else you expect the support set and he sets up a CM ok gpod for, you now I just go into my darmanitan/victini and kill you with my fire STAB.
Just for the lolz:
+6 4 SpA Klefki Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Darmanitan: 230-271 (65.5 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
And please "argue" with the mods via pms.
Both Mega Houndoom and Klefki should drop from their S-ranks. To elaborate a little:
Mega Houndoom: This thing is truly a force to be reckoned with if it sets up a Nasty Plot; however, it is a very big "if" as its opportunities to set up are not plentiful and it has a significant dependence on that setup. Mega Houndoom is easily revenge killed by the likes of faster 'mons and base 80-ish+ speed scarfers (especially Mienshao, Heracross, and Krookodile) and to a much lesser extent priority (Mach Punch and Aqua Jet); its weakness to Stealth Rocks and lack of recovery certainly does not help its cause. However, one should never look down on it as its base 140 Special Attack coupled with its offensive typing can still cause a lot of headache for the opposing team and although 75/90/90 defenses aren't good by any means, at least it isn't the worst thing possible either. A for Mega Houndoom
Klefki: This thing would have probably been banned from UU had OU decided not to ban Swagger, but nevertheless it will still . Although its biggest selling point was its SwagPlay set, it still excels at setting up screens and it can spread paralysis/set up spikes, and its good defensive typing + Prankster guarantees that it does at least one thing so it won't be completely useless unless you make the most suicidal move possible. However, ground and fire types (moves) are currently running rampant in this metagame and not to mention, it has neither reliable recovery nor offensive presence outside of Foul Play. A- for Klefki
To wrap it up, both 'mons are still amazing at their roles, however their flaws are far too noticeable for them to be staying in their current S-Ranks.
Mega Houndoom: This thing is truly a force to be reckoned with if it sets up a Nasty Plot; however, it is a very big "if" as its opportunities to set up are not plentiful and it has a significant dependence on that setup. Mega Houndoom is easily revenge killed by the likes of faster 'mons and base 80-ish+ speed scarfers (especially Mienshao, Heracross, and Krookodile) and to a much lesser extent priority (Mach Punch and Aqua Jet); its weakness to Stealth Rocks and lack of recovery certainly does not help its cause. However, one should never look down on it as its base 140 Special Attack coupled with its offensive typing can still cause a lot of headache for the opposing team and although 75/90/90 defenses aren't good by any means, at least it isn't the worst thing possible either. A for Mega Houndoom
Klefki: This thing would have probably been banned from UU had OU decided not to ban Swagger, but nevertheless it will still . Although its biggest selling point was its SwagPlay set, it still excels at setting up screens and it can spread paralysis/set up spikes, and its good defensive typing + Prankster guarantees that it does at least one thing so it won't be completely useless unless you make the most suicidal move possible. However, ground and fire types (moves) are currently running rampant in this metagame and not to mention, it has neither reliable recovery nor offensive presence outside of Foul Play. A- for Klefki
To wrap it up, both 'mons are still amazing at their roles, however their flaws are far too noticeable for them to be staying in their current S-Ranks.
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