Other Counter That Pokemon! (Final Battle Friday @ 12 PM EST)

[vyomov]

Based on Tomohawk's and scorpdestroyer's feedback on the set, I have duly incorporate U-Turn into the set and replaced Extrasensory with it, which allows Greninja to gain momentum against potential switch-ins(thanks for the feedback guys!)
Also ShellderSmuggler, while I agree that Gyarados is a good answer to Lando, I'm inclined to disagree with the set you've suggested, because Gyarados needs all the bulk it can get to set up DD and therefore I prefer Intimidate
Gyara also really does need a Substitute because in the current meta, things like the below can easily stop Gyara:

252 Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 261-307 (78.6 - 92.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Given that Rotom-W(the most common electric-type in the tier) doesn't really care about Earthquake anyways, I'd recommend you run the set that follows:
Gyarados@Leftovers
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 88 HP/248 Atk/4 Def/168 Spe
Nature: Jolly
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Bounce

The set runs enough speed to outspeed Jolteon after one boost and (while not that relevant in the current meta/for this project) prevents Jirachi from breaking the Sub with Body Slam, while the rest of the EVs are dumped into Attack

 

[Halcyon.]

So far, I'm liking Greninja the most as a pick at the moment. Unfortunately, I don't think it's a good idea for us to pick a Pokemon weak to Stealth Rock again, as that will only make it harder and harder for us to switch continually and cause us to be dependent on a Defogger or spinner. Both of which can be easily countered by a Defiant user or Aegislash. The real thing I want to discuss is the use of Dark Pulse on Greninja. I've largely found it useless. The only thing it really does is 2HKO Aegislash, but Aegislash isn't going to switch in on Greninja anyway, and Hydro Pump also does a ton (not to mention that if team 1 chooses Aegislash, we can just U-turn out of it anyway). However, I think Extrasensory does a better job. It discourages the pick of both Mega Venusaur and Keldeo, both of which I think are dangerous picks. Keldeo is covered by Dragonite, true, but it really won't like a Scald (or Icy Wind if Team 1 decides to pick that). Mega Venusaur is just a generally annoying Pokemon to take out without a lure, which doesn't exist in this type or project since both teams know the sets of the other anyway. So yeah, I think we should definitely go with Extrasensory over Dark Pulse, but I'd like to see some discussion on this.

 

[TwinklePuff]

Mamoswine @ Life Orb
Thick Fat
252 Atk, 16 SpA, 236 Speed
Naive
- Earthquake
- Freeze Dry
- Icicle Spear
- Ice Shard

The Freeze Dry set is Mamoswine's best way of getting around the most used Pokémon in OU, Rotom-Wash, all at the same time utilizing what is considered to be the best offensive dual STAB combo. The Naive nature is used to stay ahead of Breloom, and Icicle Spear is being used over Icicle Crash mainly to break through Gliscor and the rare Whimsicott. With Ice Shard, this can also serve as a last-minute check to Landorus-I as well as some of the doubly weak dragons such as Garchomp, Dragonite after Multiscale and the rare (wow) Salamence and Noivern. Earthquake is the complimentary STAB move.

 

[vyomov]

I'm just wondering as to whether Extrasensory>Dark Pulse on the Greninja submission, since while taking care of M-Venu and Keldeo is pretty neat, M-Venu can always be countered as a pick by running Gothitelle who can easily set up CM on Venu and proceed to wreak havoc. On the other hand, if we run Dark Pulse, Team 2 definitely won't be switching Aegislash into Greninja anytime soon, so the value of the move does go down.
I'd prefer to see some discussion before I finalize the submission by choosing one of the two, but I'm leaning towards Extrasensory right now(since Keldeo is a common partner for Landorus that has a decent chance of coming on Team 1)

 

[scorpdestroyer]

If anything, Mamoswine shouldn't be running Freeze Dry in such a project because it's a lure, and since team 1 knows every single bit about team 2, lures simply aren't as effective especially when team 1 doesn't even have Rotom-W yet o.o a possible other option over Freeze Dry could include Stealth Rock.

Halcyon brought up an interesting point about Extrasensory. The reason I pushed for Dark Pulse earlier is because I felt that it was much easier to take advantage of and counter the Pokemon that don't mind Dark Pulse as much as Extrasensory, namely Mega Venusaur and Conkeldurr, because they are easily trapped and KOed. I felt that Aegislash was a lot harder to counter and Dark Pulse would be cool to hit it, or at least pressurize team 1 to find different means of switching into Greninja.

However yeah I understand the merit of Extrasensory hitting Keldeo and discouraging M-Venusaur, I don't really mind seeing either move since they both have their merits and there isn't really a better one in my opinion, especially when both teams are nowhere near completion

 

[Mowtom]

Time to throw in my 2 cents on the Greninja discussion. To start with, I think that Greninja is a great idea for Team 2, as Dragonite+Greninja+Mega Mawile is a tried and true offensive core. For this project, Extrasensory is miles better than Dark Pulse. The main argument for Dark Pulse is that it discourages Aegislash. While this is true, any specific Aegislash set is not too difficult to counter. Its difficulty to counter comes from its versatility, as a counter for one set might not counter a different one. Extrasensory, on the other hand, discourages Keldeo, who is a great partner for Landorus. In conclusion, I think that Extrasensory Greninja is the best suggestion so far.

 

[Jaroda]

Gyarados works but without Substitute its very risky and in general its easy to counter pick with something like Ferrothorn or Rotom-W it also has a good chance of being 2HKOd by Lando's Psychic.

More importantly if we choose a Defogger that gives Bisharp extra chances at activating Defiant if they pick it

 

[TwinklePuff]

Freeze Dry would at least discourage Rotom-W from being a pick, and I believe that may be huge later on, considering how easy it can be to just paste the washing machine onto a team to cover weaknesses and/or have another VoltTurner. Rotom-H would be the next best option for a Rotom form, and that happens to be weak to Stealth Rock, so that may put more pressure on the other team to remove hazards.

 

[Homeslice]

Nominating Bulky Azumarill

Azumarill @ Leftovers
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Nature: Adamant
- Aqua Jet
- Waterfall
- Play Rough
- Knock Off

Azumarill gives us better synergy with Dragonite than anything previously suggested and dissuades a Dragon pick by Team 1 early on. Azumarill can live an Earth Power from Landorus and OHKO back with Waterfall or spam Knock Off if he chooses to go for a U-Turn, crippling whatever comes in. Not outspeeding doesn't matter in this case, as Aqua Jet will 2hko, Waterfall will ohko, or knock off + aqua jet will ko if he has about 2% prior damage. Relatively high bulk also helps form a bulky attacking core with Dragonite.

Just as a general statement, we aren't going to find anything overly offensive that can effectively deal with Landorus and give good synergy with Dragonite. Either a bulky attacker or a revenge killer is going to be the best way to deal with Landorus, not a general all-out attacker.

 

[G-Von]

Well FML for missing yet another period of voting. Looks like my Slowking wasn't too popular but SpD Dragonite is an interesting choice. Due to the fact that Multiscale is a vital part of its usefulness, a rapid spinner or defogger will have to be added. At this point, I think its a good idea to wait on it. Right now, it's about putting pressure on Team 1 and I think I might have a decent mon to put up for nomination:

Aegislash@Air Balloon
EV's: 252 Attk/252 SpA/4 HP
Trait: Stance Change
Quiet Nature
-King's Shield
-Shadow Sneak
-Sacred Sword
-Shadow Ball

And let the mind games begin! Dragonite and Aegi match up with each other pretty well type wise. Aegislash resists everything Dragonite is weak to while D-nite is immune to ground if Aegislash's Balloon gets broken and resists fire. Dragonite is neutral to ghost and dark, but being specially defensive and those being special attacking dominant attacks, I think it should be fine. The EV's are set up to get the most out of it's attacks with a Quiet nature to give Shadow Ball some extra umph. Air Balloon is the item of choice to give it an immunity to ground attacks and Spikes for the time being and Landorus will not be able to hit Aegislash for much damage when it first comes out onto the field. It's strongest attack against Aegi does 20.3 - 23.7%. As for it's attacks, King's Shield is there to really fuck with Team 1's head. Shadow Sneak has priority and can pick off weakened foes. Sacred Sword gives Aegislash the perfect coverage that it loves to have. The crown jewel to this moveset is definitely the fact it can go mix thanks to running STAB Shadow Ball. Physical walls get beat down thanks to its absurd power coming from a 150 Base SpA:

252 SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Skarmory: 195-231 (58.3 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Aggron: 175-207 (50.8 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 190-225 (45.2 - 53.5%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Forretress: 220-259 (62.1 - 73.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Scizor: 145-172 (42.1 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tangrowth: 253-298 (62.6 - 73.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 186-219 (52.5 - 61.8%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal

I know a lot of people feel that calcs are pointless to post but I'm just trying to put it as a representation of Aegi's ability to go mixed, which should be well known by now. Of course I was lenient and didn't include a +SpA or SR into the calcs since this is worst case scenario, but this pick will put a lot of pressure onto Team 1, which is much deserved since the advantage it will have at the end of the project is second to none.

I'm open to criticism so please add some input. If you think the moves or EV's need to be tailored better than just let me know.

 

[LightningLuxray]

Ok, I think we can all honestly agree Greninja is probably our best pick. However, this could also be a helpful member to our team.

Azumarill (F) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 16 HP / 240 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Waterfall
- Knock Off
- Play Rough

Since this variant of Lando isn't carrying Sludge Wave, Assault Vest Azumarill comes in handy in tanking its moves. It does get 3HKO'd by Earth Power, but being able to switch in twice is good enough, especially since we have Dragonite already. Also we're going to have to add a Defogger later for sure, but like Tomahawk9 has pointed out, there really aren't any that can deal with U-Turn Lando. This thing also 2HKO's with Aqua Jet so it reliably forces it out.

Overall, similar to Homeslice's Azumarill accept with more bulk :)

 

[Tomahawk]

So after my previous post, I've been reconsidering my requirements, and I think these are the most important ones and what I'm gonna work with:

1. Can come in on Psychic
2. Can come in on U-turn
3. Wins 1v1 against Landorus

The moves you want Landorus to use are Earth Power and Focus Blast. Psychic and U-turn aren't the moves you want it to use: if it Psychics Dragonite on the switchin while Stealth Rock is up, it can 2HKO. If Stealth Rock is up, U-turn is annoying as well. Something that is OHKOed by U-turn invites it, eg Greninja, which can be a hindrance. I'm not saying that it makes Greninja a bad choice, but it is a downside. Obviously, winning 1v1 against Landorus is a requirement as well.

There are a couple of things that can do this, eg Slowking, but they aren't exactly good otherwise and easily counterable. Unfortunately I have to go right now, but I'll think about it some more and get back to it later.

Azumarill is definitely a decent option for this as well, but Psychic + Earth Power KOes without Assault Vest and Aqua Jet does about 55% I think.

 

[Mitchhhhhh]

Clearly the best pick is Air Balloon Sableye!

On a serious note I'm liking AV Azumarill, its a solid pick in general, has great synergy with DNite, doesn't add another SR weakness (although it cant switch in it too many times) beats Lando and has nice utility with Knock Off and another good priority move.

 

[LightningLuxray]

Well FML for missing yet another period of voting. Looks like my Slowking wasn't too popular but SpD Dragonite is an interesting choice. Due to the fact that Multiscale is a vital part of its usefulness, a rapid spinner or defogger will have to be added. At this point, I think its a good idea to wait on it. Right now, it's about putting pressure on Team 1 and I think I might have a decent mon to put up for nomination:

Aegislash@Air Balloon
EV's: 252 Attk/252 SpA/4 HP
Trait: Stance Change
Brave/Quiet Nature (I'm not sure what to pick yet.)
-King's Shield
-Shadow Sneak
-Sacred Sword
-Shadow Ball

And let the mind games begin! Dragonite and Aegi match up with each other pretty well type wise. Aegislash resists everything Dragonite is weak to while D-nite is immune to ground if Aegislash's Balloon gets broken and resists fire. Dragonite is neutral to ghost and dark, but being specially defensive and those being special attacking dominant attacks, I think it should be fine. The EV's are set up to get the most out of it's attacks, but I'm not sure whether to go with a +SpA or +Attk nature yet. Air Balloon is the item of choice to give it an immunity to ground attacks and Spikes for the time being and Landorus will not be able to hit Aegislash for much damage when it first comes out onto the field. It's strongest attack against Aegi does 20.3 - 23.7%. As for it's attacks, King's Shield is there to really fuck with Team 1's head. Shadow Sneak has priority and can pick off weakened foes. Sacred Sword gives Aegislash the perfect coverage that it loves to have. The crown jewel to this moveset is definitely the fact it can go mix thanks to running STAB Shadow Ball. Physical walls get beat down thanks to its absurd power coming from a 150 Base SpA:

252 SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Skarmory: 195-231 (58.3 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Aggron: 175-207 (50.8 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 190-225 (45.2 - 53.5%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Forretress: 220-259 (62.1 - 73.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Scizor: 145-172 (42.1 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tangrowth: 253-298 (62.6 - 73.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 186-219 (52.5 - 61.8%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal

I know a lot of people feel that calcs are pointless to post but I'm just trying to put it as a representation of Aegi's ability to go mixed, which should be well known by now. Of course I was lenient and didn't include a +SpA or SR into the calcs since this is worst case scenario, but this pick will put a lot of pressure onto Team 1, which is much deserved since the advantage it will have at the end of the project is second to none.

I'm open to criticism so please add some input. This set obviously cannot make it to nominations with a slash but I just dont know whether to side with a +Attk or +SpA. Also, if you think the moves or EV's need to be tailored better than just let me know.

Definitely go with Quiet Aegislash, the added power to Shadow Ball, the main STAB you'll be spamming, is super helpful.

 

[Tomahawk]

Allright, I got something, albeit something nichy:

Metagross @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 16 HP / 252 Atk / 240 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Ice Punch
- Trick
- Earthquake

Uh.. yeah. Really, this the only thing I have so far that fulfills the requirements I had before:

1. It 4x resists Psychic and takes 13.7% - 15.7%
2. Takes about 20% from U-turn and resists Stealth Rock
3. Outspeeds and OHKOes Landorus with Ice Punch

Question is if this set being not as good as stuff like Greninja is worth the tradeoff. That's up to you to decide. I personally think not really, but I figured I nominated it for the hell of it. It's actually not terrible, Trick makes this thing very annoying. Team 1 can pick a Mega to absorb it, but picking one early isn't exactly good, and any Mega bar unevolved Gyarados and Charizard can still take a ton from a coverage move. Using a Choice Specs or Choice Scarf mover is also possible obviously, but I think those are relatively easier to take care of (ironically just like this set). If Team 1 uses something like Skarmory as both their Metagross and Dragonite switchin, a well-timed Trick can cripple it as well. Meteor Mash also has a nice Attack-raising effect, they need to stack up on things that outspeed this and Meteor Mash resists a bit to stop this from doing things lategame.

Not the greatest, but it is something. If I get something better, I'll withdraw this nomination but for now I'll leave it up because why not.

 

[Random Passerby]

I don't really like Scarf Metagross because in a CtP project, people will know your movesets so the surprise value of a fast Ice Punch OHKOing Lando is gone. Also, being locked into a 75 BP move makes you set-up bait for the opponent's team.
With that said, I really like the vyomov's Greninja set (with U-turn over Dark Pulse) as it forces a defensive pick and puts the opponent on the backfoot with its sheer coverage. However, the con is that it can really only switch in on Psychic.
AV Azumarill is great but it has no recovery so I fear that it might get worn down especially if Team 1 picks Keldeo, a common partner of Lando in BW2. With that said, I'll nominate Togekiss

Nature: Calm
Ability: Serene Grace
Item: Leftovers
EVs:
248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Spe (Calm)
- Defog
- Flamethrower
- Dazzling Gleam
- Roost

Specially defensive Togekiss laughs at Earth Power and Focus Blast. It also takes very little from U-turn and Psychic. Defog offers utility while Flamethower punishes Bisharp or Aegislash trying to switch in. Dazzling Gleam is for STAB to discourage Keldeo and Dragons.

This is my first post so I might not know what I'm talking about. If you guys have any other suggestion, I will edit it, thanks.

 

[Inspirited]

I don't really like Scarf Metagross because in a CtP project, people will know your movesets so the surprise value of a fast Ice Punch OHKOing Lando is gone...

Remember that this knowledge can be used against your opponent in that you can capitalize on your opponents switch to take the Ice Punch by using Meteor Mash / Trick instead or even proactively switching to something that can take on what ever will replace landorus that turn. This is rather risky depending on the situation but Scarf Metagross is a solid nomination in my eyes.

My own nomination:

Landorus-T @ Choice Scarf
EVs: 112 HP / 252 Atk / 144 Spd
Jolly Nature
- U-Turn
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Knock Off

A solid pokemon with offensive prowess in its base 145 Attack stat and the EdgeQuake combo and some very nice utility with U-Turn, intimidate, and Knock Off. It can switch into Life Orb Landorus and comfortably take anything that isn't Psychic (although it can take it) and proceed to Knock Off its Life Orb, or Knock Off one of Landorus's team mates that isn't holding a Mega Stone. Intimidate is a wonderful ability that allows it to force switches much easier, consequently giving U-Turn and Knock Off a massive amount of utility. The Choice Scarf fixes its speed and allows it to outspeed Landorus-I and allows it to make full use of U-Turn or hit other pokemon with its powerful Earthquake or Stone Edge before the opposition can hit back. It can also be used as an Intimidate juggler to cripple team 1's potential physical attackers and makes it so team 1 is discouraged to use most physical scarfers. The downsides to this pick are not being able to use Stealth Rock Landorus-T or any variant of Landorus-I. This is also revealing a Scarf user on the second pick which isn't the best idea in the world. Especially when you are hard walled by Gliscor and Skarmory among other pokemon. Gives team 2 a 2 pokemon Ice weakness but this can be undone down the road.

Edit: if you guys are looking for the XY Models of the pokemon you are nominating, they can be found here: http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/xyani/

 

[Random Passerby]

Remember that this knowledge can be used against your opponent in that you can capitalize on your opponents switch to take the Ice Punch by using Meteor Mash / Trick instead or even proactively switching to so etching that can take on what ever will replace landorus that turn.

You are pretty much forced to pick Ice Punch each time Meta comes in on Lando otherwise it OHKO you with Earth Power so unless you are very good at prediction, this is a really big risk to take. If you use Trick before killing Lando, then Meta is pretty much dead weight for the rest of the game.

On an unrelated note, can someone clarify why do we use Meteor Mash over Iron Head? Iron Head doesn't miss, can flinch and is only 10BP weaker.

EDIT: Thanks for the clarification, Wreckdra. I was not thinking about them using fairies to counter DNite and was too obsessed with removing rocks and checking Lando.

 

[Inspirited]

You are pretty much forced to pick Ice Punch each time Meta comes in on Lando otherwise it OHKO you with Earth Power so unless you are very good at prediction, this is a really big risk to take. If you use Trick before killing Lando, then Meta is pretty much dead weight for the rest of the game.

Like I said, there is risk involved, but Metagross can also be used as a back up check to Landorus along with another nomination down the line. The biggest thing I think Metagross does is it limits the Fairy-types that team 1 can pick to take on Dragonite who is a major pain otherwise. It limits these picks to Azumarill, which can be counter picked against later, or Mawile who will also force team 1 to use their mega slot early and can also be counter picked by a team 2 Aegislash among other pokemon. It supports Dragonite well is the thing as well as acting as a back up check to Landorus in a late game situation when nothing wants to come in on it.

On an unrelated note, can someone clarify why do we use Meteor Mash over Iron Head? Iron Head doesn't miss, can flinch and is only 10BP weaker.

The only reason is because Meteor Mash has an 18% chance (factoring in Accuracy) to raise Metagross's already strong attack stat even with a Scarf equipped. Iron head isn't a bad option either though if you are paranoid about accuracy and the flinch chance is also neat.

Edit: np man :]

 

[Punchshroom]

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Psychic vs. 216 HP / 228 SpD Dragonite: 123-146 (32.6 - 38.7%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

I noticed this bit here, and allow me to share with you one of CrashinBoomBang's most significant calcs for his BulkyNite set:

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 216 HP / 228 SpD Dragonite: 130-153 (34.4 - 40.5%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

That is Sludge Wave, which is more powerful than Psychic, having a near impossible chance to 2HKO Nite on the switch after SR. Don't let yourself believe there was a mistake with his calc somewhere, I too came up with different results:

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 216 HP / 228 SpD Dragonite: 130-153 (34.48 - 40.58%) -- 4.69% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Well I don't know why my Dragonite calc is still bulkier than yours, but fact of the matter is that CBB is proven to be correct.

CrashinBoomBang After making some calcs, it turns out your calc is correct after all.

Dragonite's HP after SR: 377 - 94 = 283 HP
Landorus-I's LO Sheer Force Sludge Wave: 153 damage (max damage)
Dragonite's HP after Sludge Wave: 283 - 153 + 23 (Leftovers) = 153
Chance for Landorus-I to land max damage twice in a row: (1/16) x (1/16) = 0.0039 = 0.4%

CBB used the official Showdown calc (the most recent and up-to-date one), which I cannot access to display the Psychic calc, but I do recall it having no chance to 2HKO Dragonite. I believe the Psychic / U-turn sponge does not necessarily have to be able to beat Lando-I one on one, just at worst forcing Lando-I to go for its stronger attacks for Nite to sponge.

 

[Arhan]

We'll I guess Greninja is catching,So,my nomination was right but wrongly timed,though I second Greninja,I will add my nomination here(will update with set)

 

[Tomahawk]

I noticed this bit here, and allow me to share with you one of CrashinBoomBang's most significant calcs for his BulkyNite set:

That is Sludge Wave, which is more powerful than Psychic, having a near impossible chance to 2HKO Nite on the switch after SR. Don't let yourself believe there was a mistake with his calc somewhere, I too came up with different results:

Well I don't know why my Dragonite calc is still bulkier than yours, but fact of the matter is that CBB is proven to be correct.

CBB used the official Showdown calc (the most recent and up-to-date one), which I cannot access to display the Psychic calc, but I do recall it having no chance to 2HKO Dragonite. I believe the Psychic / U-turn sponge does not necessarily have to be able to beat Lando-I one on one, just at worst forcing Lando-I to go for its stronger attacks for Nite to sponge.

You are right, I made a mistake with my calculation. If you look at it, you'll notice that I forgot to add Leftovers which makes it possible to 2HKO. Though obviously this can be played around with if Dragonite has a bit of prior damage, but you are right that it won't 2HKO after Stealth Rock. Sorry.

Also, if they don't beat Landorus one-on-one, there really is no reason to try the Earth Power to hit it on the switchin. Because they can Psychic as you switchin, then win one-on-one. Obviously this can be played around by switching to it as a middle man, then switching to Dragonite but you have to predict twice in a row correctly, which is a little unreliable.

Thanks for noticing.

 

[Halcyon.]

Please don't post asking about when I'm going to start voting. It brings nothing to the conversation and is honestly rude. I'm a busy college student and it's finals season. You're going to have to bear with me if I'm a day or two late. Anyway, voting starts now and will end in two days. Here are the nominations:

LO Weavile
SDef Mandibuzz
U-turn Greninja
DD Gyarados
Freeze Dry Mamoswine
Bulky Azumarill
Air Balloon Aegisalsh
Scarf Metagross
Defog Togekiss
Chocie Scarf Landorus

There honestly aren't enough nominations for top 3 choices, imo. So please PM me with your TOP CHOICE ONLY. By they way, if your nomination isn't on this list, it's because you broke one of the rules. Please try to follow them better next round.

 

[Halcyon.]

Ok, voting has closed for Round 3. The votes were as follows:

U-turn Greninja: 8
Balloon Aegislash: 1
Choice Scarf Metagross: 1

So, in a landslide victory, the second pick for Team 2 will be U-turn Greninja! Now Team 1 finally gets to pick its second Pokemon. This pick should be something that can handle both Dragonite and Greninja as easily as possible. Remember that we also get two picks in a row so next round will be another Team 1 pick. this means we have room for both an offensive and defensive pick. Remember to pick stuff that can also support Landorus at least to some extent. Ok, nominations for Round 4 have begun!

 

[Halcyon.]

Ok, I didn't nominate a Pokemon last round but I definitely will this round.

Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SDef
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Gyro Ball
- Stealth Rock

Ferrothorn is a fantastic pick for Team 1 in my opinion. It gives the team access to Stealth Rock early in the project and greatly discourages U-turn from Greninja (taking 40% damage if it hits Ferrothorn with U-turn is definitely a deterrent). It can also force switches with Leech Seed and can recover with Protect. Breaking Dragpnite's Multiscale and providing Stealth Rock will put huge pressure on Team 1 to have a Defogger to make sure Nite can still wall Landorus. There are a few things to discuss though. Is Power Whip useful on this Pokemon instead of Gyro Ball? Is Lefties better than Rocky Helmet? These are things i'd like people to consider when talking about my nomination.

#triplepost