when you look at other megas, you see that lots of them have many more ways to be beaten than kanga. i think many people put it on their teams not only because they gain a lot of offensive power and support (char y is also very powerful and provides sun support) but also because they lose the least from it. while charizard y is weak to a whole playstyle (rain) as well as the common rock and electric types; and mega gard is weak to ghost, poison, steel; kangaskhan is weak to fighting. thats it. it provides support, power and only one weakness with one immunity (ghost being a very potent attacking type with steel nerf) and great bulk.
i also believe that kanga restricts teammbuilding, but to a very small extent. most of the pokes that counter /check kanga are good anyway and people can get away with using their old teams on the ladder still. however, in the kanga metagame, i felt the need to run 2 intimidators in every team and a will o wisper just to never lose to kanga. i do not buy that intimidate alone can stop kanga, because on the turn you switch in on kanga to get it to -1, kanga has PuP'ed to +1 and can hit something for stupid damage. without kanga, no other physical attacker demands that level of attack drop to be handled. scizor loses to a WoW and terrakion is walled by lando t at -1.
finally, i have no idea if this is an argument anymore, but kanga is not at all predictable. it can run the standard fake out/return/sucker punch/PuP, or it can run nollans set which includes protect and ice punch for lando. body slam is an option (extremely annoying) to para something. double edge screwsruins the pokes that are ev'd to live return. fire punch rapesbeats ferrothorn/scizor. hell, it can even go trick room mode and run hammer arm over PuP to get to -2. an effective strategy because with brave nature and 0 speed ivs, kanga underspeeds base 50 pokes after hammer arm. this makes kanga in no way easy to beat and you never know what you might see on each different kanga.
This is probably one of the best (if not the best) arguments I have seen against Kanga so far in this thread, and it makes a few very solid points. I definitely admit after a good few posts that (in my eyes) basically kept repeating the same arguments along the lines of "Kanga is overused" and what not (arguments I personally didn't think made any actual points about why Kangaskhan ought to be banned), I was more or less set on "let's not ban this and get it over with already". This post has made me reconsider that somewhat.
It is very true that outright KOing other Mega-Pokemon is easier, because they have a more wide array of weaknesses defensively. This can make Kangaskhan very dangerous from a support perspective (sweeping not so much given it can be walled by Ghosts, bar giving up its precious Sucker Punch for Crunch), as it can keep those Fake Outs coming for much longer then Hitmontop or Medicham-Mega could, for instance. This also makes it very good at chipping away at things, as bar Ghost-types and Ferrothorn (probably a few others) Return is going to rack up a respectable amount of damage at least. I do think it is worth noting it lacks resistances as well (reasonably harder to switch in repeatedly) and it STAB lacks super-effective coverage. Still, Kanga's job isn't usually to sweep through entire teams (which a lot of people seem to think; though maybe it does sweep teams and I just haven't payed enough attention), it is typically to provide Fake Out support and rack up heavy damage (and pick off things w/ Sucker Punch), so this trade-off definitely works in Kangaskhan-Mega's favor. At the same time the one type it is weak to happens to be very good in the Doubles metagame (and anyone coming from a Gen V standpoint knows this was true before Kangaskhan came into play) so there's always that to consider.
While this next "restricts teambuilding" argument is nothing new, with the argument prior to it, it actually makes a bit more sense. Since Kanga can typically last for awhile it can rack up damage against said checks (bar Ghost-types bar Crunch), which means if it can repeatedly nail those checks on the switch in, you're going to need more. At the same time this does apply to a lot of things, but I personally see it being a bit more notable for Kangaskhan due to that ability to stay alive longer and the raw power of Return. I definitely wouldn't agree that it requires two WoWs and Intimidate to consistently beat with solid play, but I do think we can agree things like Lando-T and Rotom-W might not be quite as high up there (Landorus-T was used 39 times, or on 43% of all teams, in SPL for instance) in terms of usage if Kanga wasn't around. Sure they'd probably still be at the top of the usage stats, but they'd definitely not be as necessary for a given team (not to say other things can't check Kangaskhan, but these two have a habit of being frequent choices that can slow it down), which I can agree limits teambuilding at a small margin.
This last argument is sensible as well. While we can all agree that if the opponent always knew Kanga's set, the standard moveset would be the optimal choice. However, the surprise value that unusual sets can come with allow Kanga to typically pick up unexpected KOs when played right. Even Protect preys on the fact that people will double target Kangaskhan with the assumption it won't have Protect. You can mindlessly switch a Ghost-type in and get caught by an unexpected Crunch. Imo, this is the best argument of the three AuraRayquaza mentions.
I also think a reason as to why someone should (in a sense of "if they are voting to ban it this would be why", not "everyone should vote to ban Kanga because of this") be voting to ban Kangaskhan is the concept of Fake Out + Power-Up Punch. A play I have never seen anyone in the Smogon Doubles community make is to Power-Up Punch their partner on Kanga's first turn on the field. The concept behind this is that Fake Out will almost always provoke a Protect, double Protect or switch (back in Gen V I saw double Protects a lot and still do in SmogDubs to be honest). Power-Up Punching your partner allows you to avoid any Protect mind games whatsoever and get a +2 boost. If they double Protect (or Protect + switch) they are almost guarenteed to lose something to one of Kanga's attacks, if they Protect with one Pokemon and attack Kanga with the other its not usually going to work out for you all that well. It's risky and its bold, but it does a great job when utilized properly. It also removes almost any "safe play" from the opponent's realm of possibility. This is basically saying that Kangaskhan can limit your safe options on its first turn on the field to more or less 0, with a few exceptions. I've said the mind games go back to the Kangaskhan player as well, but it remains true that they will usually have a "safe" option that you won't have turn 1, which does give them a slight advantage. I definitely think everyone who ends up voting should keep these four arguments in mind when doing so.
Kanga imo is indeed a powerful pokemon, a single return can knock out most pokemon that don't resist. and it also just makes focus sash useless making pokemon like Espeon and deoxsy (all except for D) at it's mercy. though there are plentiful counters to it (ie: intimidate, wil-o-wisp, that one guy who puts ion deluge on his ampharos >.>...<.<) As I feel that these counters though apply to all physical attackers as well so those aren't really counters. also Kanga's ridiculous bulk and power outshines any other physical attacker. so imo, it's like an Uber pokemon, Stronger than other pokemon naturally without many drawbacks (at least mawile has 55 speed and low defense) and I mean...at least Lugia has low attack stats :/. so I think it should be Ubered because of this reason.
I probably wouldn't reply to this (given I've already made my point on a lot of these arguments already) if it weren't for the fact I can see a lot of people thinking "oh Nollan agrees w/ AuraRayquaza's post, so he must agree with this as well (I also don't completely agree with AuraRayquaza's post as a disclaimer, I just think his points are a lot more thought out and reinforced then most I've seen, which I like)".
Let me be clear, Return is
not a OHKO move (252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 253-298 (83.2 - 98%) -- guaranteed 2HKO). It hits nothing for x2 damage, and will only outright OHKO frail Pokemon that in most cases shouldn't be used without Follow Me support, if used at all (with the exception of high speed which is the typical reason to justify the use of frailer Pokemon). Its great at nabbing 2HKOs on things that don't resist it, but that remains true for Terrakion's Close Combat, Heatran's Eruption, Mega Blastoise's Water Spout, Skymin's Seed Flare, etc. Additionally, punishing the use of frail Pokemon regardless of whether they are Sashed is (in my eyes) nothing overpowered in any way. Doubles is a metagame with speed control, priority, and so on all over the place. Frail Pokemon typically are not effective in Doubles and those that are need a fairly large amount of support to work.
This is basically amounts to "things that counter it counter everything like it so they don't counter it" (unless it was misworded in which case my apologies). Yeah they still counter it =/
Its bulky yeah, it has power yeah, but it lacks both super-effective coverage and resistances. Beside that point, it is a Mega Pokemon. This means it can't have an item. Scarf Kyogre, for instance, I see as far more potent if it were in the standard Doubles metagame than Kangaskhan would ever be (normal Kyogre too for that matter). I also think you can't really compare Kangaskhan to Lugia, as they fulfill completely different roles on a team. "Stronger than any other Pokemon naturally" is fairly inaccurate as well. People have said this before, but I definitely find myself much more concerned as to whether I have a good Heatran, Lando-T, or Rotom check when teambuilding than Kangaskhan. If Kanga was naturally stronger this wouldn't be the case.
