You are describing Clefable, man. Except you forgot a thing. Awesome ability, which also applies to Clefable itself.
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Pokémon Sableye
- Thread starter farranpoison
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Though it is still up in the air on what all stats will be increased, and by how much, I agree with Katakiri that Sableye can now become "two Pokemon in one". The "pre game" Prankster Abuser will still be great to burn the crap out of the opponent and recover as needed, but instead of having to run Taunt like it always did, that frees up that slot for whatever else. That last move is now VERY dependent on the actual stat changes; Foul Play and Night Shade are still staple options (Foul Play having the benefit of possible mixed attacking), but now Shadow Ball and Dark Pulse could be cool to run as well. The latter is especially true now that Steel got nerfed this generation and things like Heatran - Sableye's former nemesis - could feasibly become set up fodder for a Calm Mind set since Sableye no longer cares about WoW, Toxic, Stealth Rock, or Roar (if you have the Poke Balls to try and sweep with Mega-Sableye, that is).
I can't stress enough that it looks like we'll finally have a defensive Magic Bouncer, too. That's a first, and extremely valuable.
Overall, I'm sad it lost Prankster as a Mega, and sad that it doesn't look like it'll be as potent as it's Huge Power counterpart. However, I'm not completely disappointed because Magic Bounce is an incredible ability, and I'm sure Sableye can find use for it. We'll have to see how effective it'll be in November when we get the actual stats that increase and decrease though.
I can't stress enough that it looks like we'll finally have a defensive Magic Bouncer, too. That's a first, and extremely valuable.
Overall, I'm sad it lost Prankster as a Mega, and sad that it doesn't look like it'll be as potent as it's Huge Power counterpart. However, I'm not completely disappointed because Magic Bounce is an incredible ability, and I'm sure Sableye can find use for it. We'll have to see how effective it'll be in November when we get the actual stats that increase and decrease though.
Interestingly, I think this thing is actually a perfect BP counter to Denisss' current team. Something like Snarl, Nasty Plot, (move), Recover while being immune to spore, taunt, phasing and stored power, and perpetually reducing the chain's special attack, sub or no, with Nasty Plot boosts.
Very interesting. Wonder if he'll get an expanded movepool on him like Heracross did.
Very interesting. Wonder if he'll get an expanded movepool on him like Heracross did.
Heracross and Blastoise got expanded movepools because they had nothing to abuse their new abilities.
I won't say Sableye hasn't ways to capitalize of the utility of Magic Bounce.
Taunt immunity and access to Will-O-Wisp, Recover, Taunt (lol?), knock-off and having priority for 1 turn after mega-evolting...and people only think about baton passing something at it? o.o
The problem with magic bounce is that when sableye is first switched into the fight, at least for when I have used him, he's been primarily for stopping a phsyical attacker. Magic bounce is an ability that is more often seen to deflect hazards on the switch, and this is lost on a pokemon that needs to play a turn to utilize this ability. Nobody is going to be trying to status you when they know you could pull out a mega evolve now, but the main utlity of magic bounce now only plays late game after sableye has come in at least once before, and not only are hazards useless at this point, but I doubt even mega-sableye will be any semblance of a cleaner
I believe this is the point behind Mega Sableye. Magic Bounce is nice for reflecting stuff on the switch, but really it's there to prompt opponents to use direct attacks on Mega Sableye. This allows it to counter with Metal Burst, Sucker Punch, etc. Similarly, Mega Absol is set up to be a great Me First user, with all its stat boosts in Attack, SpAtk, and Speed and Magic Bounce to prompt direct attacks.
I have no doubt that Mega Sableye will get a boost in SpDef. I'm guessing something like +50 Def/+40 SpAtk/+20 SpDef/–10 Speed. Hopefully it'll have a bigger Speed drop, but that's my conservative estimate.
It may sound gimmicky, but this thing's actually a fantastic Anti-Lead if you use Mean Look and Mega Evolve on the first turn. You force them to stay in, while at the same time reflect back any hazards they try to set. In fact, this thing could actually function as a pseudo-Gothitelle against stall. The combination of Magic Bounce and a trapping move spell doom for stall, not to mention access to Calm Mind, Nasty Plot (although I think CM will be more useful vs offensive teams), and a very useful Ghost STAB in the current meta. Hell--you could even run Taunt to force Chansey to PP Stall/Struggle it to death (Although Taunt/Magic Bounce seems kind of redundant).
Additionally, this thing will really piss off Hyper Offense, as it will shut Deoxys down. Seriously--you Mean Look on Deo-D and they can kiss their hazards goodbye. Also, it has WoW to burn physical attackers, and can just overall aggravate HO players as they now have to play around this thing.
I personally wouldn't give it a mention on my stall teams unless I really, REALLY needed a solid answer to opposing stall. Unless the Defense buff this thing is enormous, I don't see it being more useful against offensive threats than what's already out there. Compounding this is the fact that it's a Mega Evolution--meaning you can't use StallZard X or Mega Venu.
I guess in summary, what I'm trying to say is, this thing is actually really fucking cool. It's yet another (*sigh) big fuck you to stall teams, and it can function as an awesome anti-lead--greatly hindering Hyper Offense, and other dedicated leads. As someone who likes to play stall, I don't want this thing to come out; as someone who enjoys creative sets, I can't wait for this to come out.
EDIT: Okay--I really can't get over how perfect this is against HO. It completely dismantles Deo-Sharp. Every time they try to lay a hazard, they get punished for it, and when they try to use Bisharp against you, you just burn him. I'm going to take back what I said about this not being good on stall. If your stall team has problems with the Deo-Sharp core, just throw Mega-Sableye on your team and instantly kick ass. Maybe I'm just really amped up on endorphins, but I'm REALLY liking this thing the more I think about it.
Additionally, this thing will really piss off Hyper Offense, as it will shut Deoxys down. Seriously--you Mean Look on Deo-D and they can kiss their hazards goodbye. Also, it has WoW to burn physical attackers, and can just overall aggravate HO players as they now have to play around this thing.
I personally wouldn't give it a mention on my stall teams unless I really, REALLY needed a solid answer to opposing stall. Unless the Defense buff this thing is enormous, I don't see it being more useful against offensive threats than what's already out there. Compounding this is the fact that it's a Mega Evolution--meaning you can't use StallZard X or Mega Venu.
I guess in summary, what I'm trying to say is, this thing is actually really fucking cool. It's yet another (*sigh) big fuck you to stall teams, and it can function as an awesome anti-lead--greatly hindering Hyper Offense, and other dedicated leads. As someone who likes to play stall, I don't want this thing to come out; as someone who enjoys creative sets, I can't wait for this to come out.
EDIT: Okay--I really can't get over how perfect this is against HO. It completely dismantles Deo-Sharp. Every time they try to lay a hazard, they get punished for it, and when they try to use Bisharp against you, you just burn him. I'm going to take back what I said about this not being good on stall. If your stall team has problems with the Deo-Sharp core, just throw Mega-Sableye on your team and instantly kick ass. Maybe I'm just really amped up on endorphins, but I'm REALLY liking this thing the more I think about it.
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Prankster was the ability that made Sableye viable competively and Mega Sableye will definitely miss it. But on the other hand, Magic Bounce is a good thing, as it keeps Mega Sableye from just being a Sableye with more Def and no Leftovers. As ;lmlm pointed out, it makes Sableye a great stall counter and it allows for some mind games regarding when Sableye is going to mega evolve.
The Sp.Atk boost is kind of a downer though. Sure, Sableye has access to Calm Mind and Nasty Plot, but it's unlikely to become a set-up sweeper unless it Mean Looks something that can't touch it (and this means it'll either have a single attacking move or no recover). And even then it won't be hard to revenge kill, since its low HP can only take so many hits. And let's not forget it's slow and doesn't have access to special priority, which means it'll have to take hits repeatedly before attacking. And it can't rely on priority recover anymore. I wish the Sp.Atk points went to Sp.Def instead. Or even Atk. Sableye has Fake Out, Shadow Sneak and Sucker Punch and a base Atk stat (75) that could easily become usable with a Mega Evolution boost.
I wouldn't say it is lost, but this will certainly be a problem if you're not leading with Sableye. It does look like it'll turn out to be a good anti-lead though.
The Sp.Atk boost is kind of a downer though. Sure, Sableye has access to Calm Mind and Nasty Plot, but it's unlikely to become a set-up sweeper unless it Mean Looks something that can't touch it (and this means it'll either have a single attacking move or no recover). And even then it won't be hard to revenge kill, since its low HP can only take so many hits. And let's not forget it's slow and doesn't have access to special priority, which means it'll have to take hits repeatedly before attacking. And it can't rely on priority recover anymore. I wish the Sp.Atk points went to Sp.Def instead. Or even Atk. Sableye has Fake Out, Shadow Sneak and Sucker Punch and a base Atk stat (75) that could easily become usable with a Mega Evolution boost.
I wouldn't say it is lost, but this will certainly be a problem if you're not leading with Sableye. It does look like it'll turn out to be a good anti-lead though.
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Although we don't know its exact BST I really want to try a CM set once it comes out. Seeing as its speed already drops below Mawile is it safe to just do 0 Spe on whatever I breed?
Prankster Sableye and mSableye work diffrently. mSableye is more of a stall mon. It's ability to bounce status, which is what hurts it most, and recover off any damage done is amazing.
He lost his ability to go first, that doesn't mean he's worse off. . .
He lost his ability to go first, that doesn't mean he's worse off. . .
I have to disagree somewhat with that statement. Sableye uses prankster taunt to pressure hazard set up alot more efficiently. Realistically you would taunt, then mega evolve but any intelligent player seeing sableye in team preview will know to not send in their hazard set up first to avoid wasted first turns. I see his mega evolutiom acting as a counter to that counter as an ultimate anti hazard pokemon. If they do go with the hazard set up first turn its taunted, if they decide not to you boost your defenses then have a magic bouncer which means unless they out predict you, their hazards will never see the light of day.
Really curious how mega sableye's stats will get redistributed. Hope it's attack gets reduced a bit.....maybe like this 50/75/75/65/65/50 ---> 50/45/135/125/85/40? This stat spread gives sable some decent defences and, after a np/cm, great offences too! Sadly knowing gf mega sable's stats will probably be just mawile's shuffled around...
Wat Sableye is UU according to the current tier list.
I know. I was (half) joking.
Just that it feels so disappointing after much speculation of a new signature ability.
That cryptic dex entry (giant ruby that cannot be scratched) and not revealing the ability at first
gave us high expectations
Thb those two infos combinated made Magic Bounce quite obvious. At least if interpreting "no attacks" as "no passive attack".Official Pokémon ORAS site said:
When I first saw Mega-Sableye and its dex entry the first thing i thought was "This guy has Magic Bounce".
You're aware of how difficult sableye is to remove from play correct? Now give it better defenses and a way to stay healthy.
What about that is even remotely disappointing? Because it didn't get some broken ability like wonder guard? It's going to be an extremely viable pokemon depending on how its stats are laid out. I wouldn't be so sure it will be disappointing if I were you.
This sounds like a great moveset for Mega Sableye:
Sableye @ Sableyite
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Dark Pulse
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Calm Mind
It sets up so easily on anything. If it's a physical attacker, just burn it with Will-o-Wisp. If it's a special attacker, use that priority Calm Mind to your advantage. If it's a wall, just Mega Evolve and Magic Bounce protects you from Toxic, Taunt, Roar/Whirlwind, anything. Nothing they can do. The base stat boosts really lean towards a set like this as well: Mega Sableye will get a lot of physical defense just like Suicune and Cofagrigus for example. And we all know how deadly Calm Mind can be on those pokemon, because with max Defense and a couple of Calm Minds not much can break through them. It also gets a special Attack buff, meaning it doesn't need as many boosts to start sweeping (useful if you don't like waiting for crits to ruin your long setup).
In my opinion, Mega Sableye is going to be a huge threat to unprepared teams. Better get those Fairy-types ready.
Sableye @ Sableyite
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Dark Pulse
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Calm Mind
It sets up so easily on anything. If it's a physical attacker, just burn it with Will-o-Wisp. If it's a special attacker, use that priority Calm Mind to your advantage. If it's a wall, just Mega Evolve and Magic Bounce protects you from Toxic, Taunt, Roar/Whirlwind, anything. Nothing they can do. The base stat boosts really lean towards a set like this as well: Mega Sableye will get a lot of physical defense just like Suicune and Cofagrigus for example. And we all know how deadly Calm Mind can be on those pokemon, because with max Defense and a couple of Calm Minds not much can break through them. It also gets a special Attack buff, meaning it doesn't need as many boosts to start sweeping (useful if you don't like waiting for crits to ruin your long setup).
In my opinion, Mega Sableye is going to be a huge threat to unprepared teams. Better get those Fairy-types ready.
Well now that I have read the posts from the last couple of pages I can see it's far from rubbish.
Half of my disappointment comes from the fact that mega sableye did not receive a whole NEW ability (i.e. not so much to do with brokenness or competitive merits).
Since Gamefreak is giving mega sableye an existing ability, it could have announced it from the get go, instead of teasing us by leaving the ability blank.
Sylveon's typing was left blank when it was first announced and we had Fairy type which was completely new. So I think I have some legitimate expectation there that "leaving blank" --> "new stuff"
Looking from another angle, how would you feel it Primal Groundon and Kyorge turn out to have existing abilities?
If it's an ability that aids in doing something better than its original form, I won't be disappointed at all.
I was talking more along the lines of how viable it will be when it's released. Your disappointment is your own opinion on the matter.
Well we had different lines of thinking (competitive merits for you and novelty value for me) and that's completely fine.
Of course my disappointment is my own opinion - I never asserted otherwise.
P.S. I hope you didn't find my quoting you and my phrase "how would you feel" in the last line as provocative or anything. It wasn't meant to be =]
If they drop its base Speed right down to 10, that gives them 40 extra stat points to play with on top of the +100, and they're going to need to do something like that if they want this to be viable.
Defensive Magic Bounce is good and I'm not sure if it's good for stall or bad for it. It's bad for Deoxys, which is something. Calm Mind will probably be better than Nasty Plot on this
Defensive Magic Bounce is good and I'm not sure if it's good for stall or bad for it. It's bad for Deoxys, which is something. Calm Mind will probably be better than Nasty Plot on this
Switching gets priority over prankster mean look. If your opponent is, erm, inexperienced enough to leave a hazard setter in vs sableye, you're probably winning anyway.
That's so much physical def that you're getting into diminishing returns territory, and that's before your opponent gets burned. One of my biggest disappointments is that the def increase is pretty useless on a mon that utilizes WoW. Both you and GF should have given it special defense instead.This sounds like a great moveset for Mega Sableye:
Sableye @ Sableyite
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Dark Pulse
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Calm Mind
It didn't improve on its existing playstyle. Prankster sableye has an effective niche, but magic bounce boosting already belongs to two other pokemon and is questionably effective. In addition, you cannot use both prankster sableye and megasableye effectively on the same pokemon. The two conflict with each other; the def boost is fairly useless on a mon with priority burn, the spa boost is useless on a mon that uses foul play effectively, and magic bounce is just a slight upgrade over priority taunt. You have to greatly weaken both sableyes to be able to use them at the same time. That's why I'm disappointed.
And there aren't even any head games created with your opponent wondering if it's a mega or not, because the answer to both is still the same: destroy it with powerful special attacks.
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Right, you're proving me right. If Deoxys can't stay in, it can't do its job. I'd say that's shutting it down.
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