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Ladder Balanced Hackmons
- Thread starter verbatim
- Start date
I've only seen one team with more than 2 of a poke and it was a shedinja team. That guy's not high on the ladder so I don't see the point. plus and turboblaze (it 420 (BAN ME PLEASE)) user will destroy them. I'd be OK with a 2 per species clause but I don't think this is actually a problem with the meta
Thanks guys, I am a fairly competent player now. Those were my problem mons, and now I'll stop annoying you guys.
Monte Cristo
Banned deucer.
Why don't we have evasion clause? All it does is make the game uncompetetive and it adds nothing, as opposed to species clause, this something little people can reject and isn't competetive at all.
xJownage
Even pendulums swing both ways
competitive, not competetive. Sorry it really annoys me I'm weird.
1. Moody.
2. If you can't beat teams that have evasion used, you aren't teambuilding with all threats in mind. This means you don't have any of the following:
- Heart Swap
- Topsy-Turvy
- Haze
- Imposter
- Whirlwind / Roar
- Unaware
- No Guard
- Sometimes, Sacred Sword
If you don't have any of those on your team, you don't have a solid answer to sweepers, Moody Abusers, and Baton Passers. If you don't have answers to those, you should consider your build a failed team, as at least one of those is basically REQUIRED for play in BH.
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Oops, thought ho-oh and lugia switched def and att, not def and spdef. Mega Blaziken does sound better though.
With the coming of OM C&C, BH, the most popular and revered OM is probably going to get a little standardized. Evasion Clause is not a bad idea for the sake of following the precedent of standard metagames.
Add Unaware and Whirlwind to that list. No Guard and Sacred Sword are all good checks for evasion as well, and have applications against other forms of boosting. (No Guard lets you Para/Burn a sweeper while attacking, Sacred Sword ignores Def boosts).
Now that you mention that bit, I wonder what changes it'd all bring. Standard (singles) tiers have the standard suite of clauses, of which the ones we're missing are sleep, evasion, and species. They also have councils, suspect ladders, and all that other stuff. Will we be getting all of that too?
if anything needs to banned it's prankster destiny bond. fuck that shit.
I have nothing against Evasion clause (or moody but who actually uses that (stop looking at my gira-o)) or to a degree sleep cause it's very spammable anyway. Those aren't really that much fun in appeal to all sides, expect the ones using them maybe.
But really, too much standartasion:
Where's the hack part again?
Oh right we might aswell call this uber's v2, now with less ability and move pool limits
but don't use anything that's out of the box pls, thats not standart enough.
One of the big selling points in BH is that it isn't that standart.
Really, if you ask people who are not super serious but still good players, or the more *gasp* casual players about what they hate most about smogon what you usualy hear is they hate how everyone uses the same shit.
Sure, BH has some stuff that are really standart (imposter, sturdy sheddy, fridge cube, the silly lead deo-s) but it has a shit ton of options available on so many mons, and hell, without specie clause, a player can run same mon twice with different set!
When a more casual player vs srs player is in the field for BH, it can go with "why didn't I think of that" "wait what" "that was unexpected". That' kyogre might be a prankster, it might toxic poison sweeper, it might be regenvest, or it might be something completely bizarre, it might run so many things, or MMX, it might be techy, it might be contratory, it might be proteaon, it might be a special varitation, hell it might be a support, you don't know..! You see something twice? Oh shit that's double the guess work.
vs OU where it's "oh look it's talonflame, I wonder if its gona spam bravebird, maybe someone is crazy enough for nature power or sword dance? nawwwwww" "Oh look it's heatran, I wonder what this is gona use (definatly not lava plume or roar or SR)" "Gee this team has mawile, GUESS THE MEGA" etc.
The fact that you have freedom is a big appeal and selling point. Thinking outside the box and not just bandwagon hopping, and not being intensifcly punished by using something different allows BH to get "fun" for all side of spectrum.
You can use more "standart" sets and those you think and community think are the cream of the top, but you aren't so heavily punished with more bizzare sets either. Being able to have so much difference between what goes around the ladder is a good thing really, because it makes this tier have more personality, making it less "lets calculate this math outcome cause I know exactly what the foe has", and hell, I'm gonna say it: More skillfull because now you actually have to use your prediction and player reading skills bit more to actually know what the foe might be running and doing rather than just read an article, actually having guess work, using your little brain nut on other fields than just what calculator might say.
And ok that's my rant and why I hate these attempts to make it too standart such as with the specie clause addition.
There's no point to limit the meta to make it more "standart" when you can appeal with it's freedom that allows both, outside the box and the community standart have a good field of working.
You can take a standartized RMT team with mega gengar, kyube, PH regi, sturdy sheddies etc and make it work. You can take a team of 6 gardevoirs that have a mix of pixilate, prankster, stat uppers, etc and make it work.
Shouldn't that be fun for all sides? Or is there some sort of "I hate losing to this shit" thing? I don't really know.
But really, too much standartasion:
Where's the hack part again?
Oh right we might aswell call this uber's v2, now with less ability and move pool limits
but don't use anything that's out of the box pls, thats not standart enough.
One of the big selling points in BH is that it isn't that standart.
Really, if you ask people who are not super serious but still good players, or the more *gasp* casual players about what they hate most about smogon what you usualy hear is they hate how everyone uses the same shit.
Sure, BH has some stuff that are really standart (imposter, sturdy sheddy, fridge cube, the silly lead deo-s) but it has a shit ton of options available on so many mons, and hell, without specie clause, a player can run same mon twice with different set!
When a more casual player vs srs player is in the field for BH, it can go with "why didn't I think of that" "wait what" "that was unexpected". That' kyogre might be a prankster, it might toxic poison sweeper, it might be regenvest, or it might be something completely bizarre, it might run so many things, or MMX, it might be techy, it might be contratory, it might be proteaon, it might be a special varitation, hell it might be a support, you don't know..! You see something twice? Oh shit that's double the guess work.
vs OU where it's "oh look it's talonflame, I wonder if its gona spam bravebird, maybe someone is crazy enough for nature power or sword dance? nawwwwww" "Oh look it's heatran, I wonder what this is gona use (definatly not lava plume or roar or SR)" "Gee this team has mawile, GUESS THE MEGA" etc.
The fact that you have freedom is a big appeal and selling point. Thinking outside the box and not just bandwagon hopping, and not being intensifcly punished by using something different allows BH to get "fun" for all side of spectrum.
You can use more "standart" sets and those you think and community think are the cream of the top, but you aren't so heavily punished with more bizzare sets either. Being able to have so much difference between what goes around the ladder is a good thing really, because it makes this tier have more personality, making it less "lets calculate this math outcome cause I know exactly what the foe has", and hell, I'm gonna say it: More skillfull because now you actually have to use your prediction and player reading skills bit more to actually know what the foe might be running and doing rather than just read an article, actually having guess work, using your little brain nut on other fields than just what calculator might say.
And ok that's my rant and why I hate these attempts to make it too standart such as with the specie clause addition.
There's no point to limit the meta to make it more "standart" when you can appeal with it's freedom that allows both, outside the box and the community standart have a good field of working.
You can take a standartized RMT team with mega gengar, kyube, PH regi, sturdy sheddies etc and make it work. You can take a team of 6 gardevoirs that have a mix of pixilate, prankster, stat uppers, etc and make it work.
Shouldn't that be fun for all sides? Or is there some sort of "I hate losing to this shit" thing? I don't really know.
I agree with everything you're saying, but you are aware the correct spelling is "Standard", right? Even if it's deliberate it's driving my (not-so) inner pedant up the wall.
Do you guys have an approximate date at which C&C will begin (or something along those lines)?
Edit: Nvm saw the thread.
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Why do you need an evasion clause, as I stated with my pivotshed, any good team can quickly break them. Anyway, Heart swap+Psycho Boost on Analytic MMX Sound good?
Because it's uncompetitive. As for your second question, no. Analytic is even more worthless than usual on a fast pokemon like MMX.
I think he meant Adaptability?
Also, Uselesscrab, calm down? Those "standardizations" are purely speculation on my part. For all I know, they may just let verbatim keep full control of the OM and he may very well change nothing between now and the end of time.
Also, you could gut all of the commonly used pokemon, moves, items, and abilities from the tier, ban them, and you'd still have a metric ton of variety and creativity that's not possible in any standard meta. Three clauses, if they were even added, would do little to impact the creativity of the tier.
Also, Uselesscrab, calm down? Those "standardizations" are purely speculation on my part. For all I know, they may just let verbatim keep full control of the OM and he may very well change nothing between now and the end of time.
Also, you could gut all of the commonly used pokemon, moves, items, and abilities from the tier, ban them, and you'd still have a metric ton of variety and creativity that's not possible in any standard meta. Three clauses, if they were even added, would do little to impact the creativity of the tier.
Tagged the wrong person, I don't think I said anything against you in this thread.
So I did. Not sure why I keep getting you and CactusCacti confused. It was directed at him.
So guys... in I believe the Balanced Hackmons viability thread, I noticed that Lati@s AND their Megas were both given spots. When asked why, I was told because their regular formes could hold Soul Dew while, even in Hackmons, their Megas could not. I said that because their Megas were the same species as them, they should in theory get the same boost from Soul Dew, to which I was told off and dismissed as wrong.
But I have proof I'm right... sorta. Not directly, but it proves it.
Megas do count as the same species as their base formes, and, if hacked into a game, they react to species-specific items the same way their base forme would. For example:
Confused? There's a really simple explanation for this: the Mega Charizard Y was hacked directly into the party so it acted like a regular Pokemon, and it was given a Charizardite X. This video proves that the game counts Megas as the same species as their base formes, as Mega Charizard Y was able to use the Mega Stone to Mega Evolve into Mega Charizard X.
By proxy, this also means that Mega Latios and Latias get buffs from Soul Dew.
But I have proof I'm right... sorta. Not directly, but it proves it.
Megas do count as the same species as their base formes, and, if hacked into a game, they react to species-specific items the same way their base forme would. For example:
Confused? There's a really simple explanation for this: the Mega Charizard Y was hacked directly into the party so it acted like a regular Pokemon, and it was given a Charizardite X. This video proves that the game counts Megas as the same species as their base formes, as Mega Charizard Y was able to use the Mega Stone to Mega Evolve into Mega Charizard X.
By proxy, this also means that Mega Latios and Latias get buffs from Soul Dew.
MAMP
MAMP!
This actually has interesting implications if you can mega evolve a Mega evolved mon; can we have Drizzle Mega Gyarados mevoing into Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados? Aerilate Zard Y switching to Zard X to break a special wall/take an electric attack?
Mega Lati@s currently do get Soul Dew boosts at the moment. Still good to have 100% evidence.
God now I think we all want a mega pikachu
Imagine Mega Marowak in a similar way.
Nice video. By the way, at the time we told you that, I'm pretty sure Soul Dew actually didn't provide boosts to the megas on the simulator. Of course it does now, but this is a fairly recent development.