Ladder Balanced Hackmons

[AWailOfATail]

Just run stall and use topsy turvy, it never misses. Heart swap works too and goes through subs, but it's easier for the enemy to stack up again. If that's not your speed, use Whirlwind. If they're magic bounce, use Parting Shot.

Or you're more offensive, run one of those MM2X (or Y) No Guard sets with Inferno/Zap Cannon/Dynamicpunch/Milk Drink. That's a pain. MM2X is probably better than MM2Y because it's bulkier, but still does a bunch of damage with the Special moves.

Evasion's never been much of a problem for me. It's handled well if you prepare for it. You might think "Oh aura sphere is fine". What if they baton pass to Mega Gengar? You can't do anything.

 

[xJownage]

I used a freaking illusion gengar-mega to great success earlier. the problem? I used sacred sword instead of secret sword by accident. FUK U GAMEFREAK Y U MAKE MOVES WITH ONLY 1 LETTER DIFFERENCE ;[

God please help me make a team that is a Team and not a bunch of thrown together decent pokes.

 

[Lcass4919]

I used a freaking illusion gengar-mega to great success earlier. the problem? I used sacred sword instead of secret sword by accident. FUK U GAMEFREAK Y U MAKE MOVES WITH ONLY 1 LETTER DIFFERENCE ;[

God please help me make a team that is a Team and not a bunch of thrown together decent pokes.

2 letters. lol. also reminds me of the time i ran psywave instead of psystrike because i typed "psy" forgetting there was 100 different moves called "psy-" good times...good times getting swept by flint harder then i shouldve. lol.

 

[aesf]

2 letters. lol. also reminds me of the time i ran psywave instead of psystrike because i typed "psy" forgetting there was 100 different moves called "psy-" good times...good times getting swept by flint harder then i shouldve. lol.

Speaking of which, I once put thunder on my ferrothorn instead of thunder wave. Good thing the opponent had a gyarados :P. Yep, those days when I actually played ou...

 

[xJownage]

Tinted lens is a great ability btw. #choice band v-create MM2X can just obliterate stuff with tinted lens as its ability. This is also cool for mons that don't need something like mold breaker to sweep. Not true for gengar tho.

 

[Ranger Mike]

Tinted lens is a great ability btw. #choice band v-create MM2X can just obliterate stuff with tinted lens as its ability. This is also cool for mons that don't need something like mold breaker to sweep. Not true for gengar tho.

I mean tinted lens mm2x isnt a bad thing by any means but the thing is that you could be using dialga.
+3 252+ SpA Tinted Lens Dialga Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 348-412 (107.4 - 127.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+3 252+ SpA Dialga Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Yveltal: 399-469 (87.5 - 102.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+3 252+ SpA Dialga Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Giratina: 316-373 (62.6 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+3 252+ SpA Dialga Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Arceus: 348-409 (78.3 - 92.1%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+3 252+ SpA Tinted Lens Dialga Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Kyogre: 310-366 (76.7 - 90.5%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Made 100 power btw
I would personally use protean should you use v create because fire is a decent offensive typing unlike psychic or steel which is what's so great about tinted lens.

 

[Rumors]

+3 252+ SpA Tinted Lens Dialga Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 348-412 (107.4 - 127.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

False! No Aegislash is going to be running 0 SpD EVs except in the case of some very weird anti-Imposter shenanigans.

Correct calc: +3 252+ SpA Tinted Lens Dialga Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 236-278 (72.8 - 85.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


Also, the calcs against Giratina, Arceus, and Yveltal are kind of pointless since they don't resist. If Dialga, with its attacking stats, isn't able to at least 2HKO them and most neutral targets at +3 with a STAB move, then something is wrong. (We'll excuse non-Imposter Eviolite Chansey.)

Speaking of Chansey, it's worth noting that a boosting Tinted Lens user mandates an Unaware or to be Sheddy weak lest an Imposter get ahold of your set and sweep your team.

 

[Ranger Mike]

False! No Aegislash is going to be running 0 SpD EVs except in the case of some very weird anti-Imposter shenanigans.

Correct calc: +3 252+ SpA Tinted Lens Dialga Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 236-278 (72.8 - 85.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


Also, the calcs against Giratina, Arceus, and Yveltal are kind of pointless since they don't resist. If Dialga, with its attacking stats, isn't able to at least 2HKO them and most neutral targets at +3 with a STAB move, then something is wrong. (We'll excuse non-Imposter Eviolite Chansey.)

oops yeah i kind of screwed up. Also tinted lens give you entire neutral coverage bar things like volcanion. The calcs against giratina and yveltal are kind of just to show the wallbreaking power of dialga.

 

[0pr4h]

You could always Judgement + Iron Plate on Dialga.

 

[Pikachu Murderer]

Hey guys, I finally got back, gonna see if this posts right.... Please don't tell me my team is to terrible....


My First BH Poke.. (Arceus-Ghost) Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
-Dark Pulse
-Defend Order
-Topsy-Turvy
-Slack Off

Why: This is the cornerstone of my team, much better than most people give him credit. Being Arceus-Ghost confuses noobs, often giving him a free turn to set up while noobs try a ghost type move. His ev's and nature buff dark pulse and beef-up his other stats. Bold nature is to weaken the fact that most fighting type moves are physical. Let's hope this post works. If it does, I will post the rest of my team. He is designed to take down contrary abusers and to use magic-bounced moves to annoy enemy walls. He fears Heart Swap because it steals his defend order boosts. I run dark pulse instead of stored power so I am not completely walled by Dark Types.

 

[xJownage]

I mean tinted lens mm2x isnt a bad thing by any means but the thing is that you could be using dialga.
+3 252+ SpA Tinted Lens Dialga Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 348-412 (107.4 - 127.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+3 252+ SpA Dialga Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Yveltal: 399-469 (87.5 - 102.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+3 252+ SpA Dialga Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Giratina: 316-373 (62.6 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+3 252+ SpA Dialga Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Arceus: 348-409 (78.3 - 92.1%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+3 252+ SpA Tinted Lens Dialga Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Kyogre: 310-366 (76.7 - 90.5%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Made 100 power btw
I would personally use protean should you use v create because fire is a decent offensive typing unlike psychic or steel which is what's so great about tinted lens.

Imposter weak. Hardcore. If you tailglow against imposter its actually gg. specs tinted lens is better from my experience.

 

[Ranger Mike]

Imposter weak. Hardcore. If you tailglow against imposter its actually gg. specs tinted lens is better from my experience.

There is a reason dialga runs sub y'know. Also you're not saying that tinted lens mm2x is imposter weak? Specs tinted lens is quite inferior to adamant orb tail glow. Sure if you do not sub right then you might lose but still.

 

[xJownage]

There is a reason dialga runs sub y'know. Also you're not saying that tinted lens mm2x is imposter weak? Specs tinted lens is quite inferior to adamant orb tail glow. Sure if you do not sub right then you might lose but still.

I would still run prankster topsy turvy something as an answer, but yeah i could see why you would say that. To say that Specs Dialga is inferior to adamant orb tail glow is a bad comparison, as one is an immediate wallbreaker and the other is a bulky sweeper...

 

[Lcass4919]

Hey guys, I finally got back, gonna see if this posts right.... Please don't tell me my team is to terrible....


My First BH Poke.. (Arceus-Ghost) Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
-Dark Pulse
-Defend Order
-Topsy-Turvy
-Slack Off

Why: This is the cornerstone of my team, much better than most people give him credit. Being Arceus-Ghost confuses noobs, often giving him a free turn to set up while noobs try a ghost type move. His ev's and nature buff dark pulse and beef-up his other stats. Bold nature is to weaken the fact that most fighting type moves are physical. Let's hope this post works. If it does, I will post the rest of my team. He is designed to take down contrary abusers and to use magic-bounced moves to annoy enemy walls. He fears Heart Swap because it steals his defend order boosts. I run dark pulse instead of stored power so I am not completely walled by Dark Types.

alright, im not going to go hardcore on you by saying this is a shit set or anything, i can see how it could be useful for your team, i'm just going to point out a few things, etc etc. first off, NEVER talk about noobs and how you beat/outplay them. lol. if we were to guide our sets success based on noobs, i can safely say that ill switch every description for my sets to:"i am immortal and have never lost a serious game to noobs" and trust me, no good player is going to be fooled by arcghost). something else thats been kinda bothering me, is how you define this, its "designed to take down contrary abusers" when you have to dryswitch it in, or allready BE in the feild, in order to actually STOP the two top threatening contrary sweepers mega mewtwo y and x(superpower and psychoboost are both 2hkos which superpower outright kos at +1)...which also run other sets that can potentially fuck this thing up like its a joke (protean) .-. but i can see how it could be annoying to some walls who rely on status/hazards to do anything thus giving you the time to set up. but then parting shot pranksters completely make this thing useless on your team lol overall i wouldn't call this set a "grade A set" but its unique, and decent enough that i wont scold you for using it ;p. seriously though, i like this set you made, but the last problem is imposter. imposter can safely pp stall this thing, and all you can do is switch out while it does your OWN shenanigans against you. a neat little thing i suggest doing, is running parting shot on one of your pokes (maybe a prankster,or contrary to get a free boost) if you don't have a counter that is, so chan's cant stall your team out.

sorry if this wasn't the type of criticism you wanted. but i'm not going to pretend a set is godly just because someone would feel upset if i said so. saying that, i don't feel like this set is bad per se, its just...really easy to get around given your opponent has the utility to do so.

 

[Kit Kasai]

alright, im not going to go hardcore on you by saying this is a shit set or anything, i can see how it could be useful for your team, i'm just going to point out a few things, etc etc. first off, NEVER talk about noobs and how you beat/outplay them. lol. if we were to guide our sets success based on noobs, i can safely say that ill switch every description for my sets to:"i am immortal and have never lost a serious game to noobs" and trust me, no good player is going to be fooled by arcghost). something else thats been kinda bothering me, is how you define this, its "designed to take down contrary abusers" when you have to dryswitch it in, or allready BE in the feild, in order to actually STOP the two top threatening contrary sweepers mega mewtwo y and x(superpower and psychoboost are both 2hkos which superpower outright kos at +1)...which also run other sets that can potentially fuck this thing up like its a joke (protean) .-. but i can see how it could be annoying to some walls who rely on status/hazards to do anything thus giving you the time to set up. but then parting shot pranksters completely make this thing useless on your team lol overall i wouldn't call this set a "grade A set" but its unique, and decent enough that i wont scold you for using it ;p. seriously though, i like this set you made, but the last problem is imposter. imposter can safely pp stall this thing, and all you can do is switch out while it does your OWN shenanigans against you. a neat little thing i suggest doing, is running parting shot on one of your pokes (maybe a prankster,or contrary to get a free boost) if you don't have a counter that is, so chan's cant stall your team out.

sorry if this wasn't the type of criticism you wanted. but i'm not going to pretend a set is godly just because someone would feel upset if i said so. saying that, i don't feel like this set is bad per se, its just...really easy to get around given your opponent has the utility to do so.

It was the criticism he needed, but not the criticism he deserved.

 

[Halliday]

So, evasion clause.
I know the biggest argument against this is that evasion is handle-able, but honestly, that does not matter. Evasion is uncompetitive, and honestly, the metagame shoudl not hold something that allows something mediocre to win through virtue of luck. I'm not arguing evasion is broken, because it isn't, I'm arguing that it is something that does not add to the metagame. IT does not make balanced hackmons a better thing to play, it just detracts and makes it less fun. This metagame is supposed to be a more competitive version of Hackmons, and I think an evasion clause would really help meet that goal.

 

[Rumors]

I wouldn't mind an Evasion clause since, without specific checks, things quickly devolve into a luck-based clustercluck. Especially once Imposters get involved and you have two maxed evasion mons praying they can manage to hit each other for scratch damage. This is more or less why Evasion clause exists in other tiers as opposed to Evasion being OP. A lot of teams already have these specific checks to deal with other forms of boosting, but the same could be said for standard too where Evasion is banned.

Also, I'm curious if anyone else had opinions on the species clause Lcass brought up.

 

[Ranger Mike]

The thing about evasion for those that say oh imposter counters it lul. You are just making the problem worse which means you are also causing the problem. If there was a team specifically designed to crush the ladder all of those mons would either have aura sphere or stomp on them which is not really healthy for the meta. Not saying that anyone runs stomp but if that is the only true counter to evasion then that is extremely problematic.

 

[Uselesscrab]

The thing about evasion for those that say oh imposter counters it lul. You are just making the problem worse which is not really anything fun. If there was a team specifically designed to crush the ladder all of those mons would either have aura sphere or stomp on them which is not really healthy for the meta. Not saying that anyone runs stomp but if that is the only true counter to evasion then that is extremely problematic.

Refrigerate Stomp let's go.

In all seriousness, there isn't really too much of a reason to keep evasion around. However, saying "it's not fun to play against" isn't really the best justification, no offense BK.

 

[Heisenerg]

IMO it's just another aspect of BH that a player has to be able to beat/have an answer for, just like Imposter or Sturdinja.

 

[Fossil_Maniac_27]

So, evasion clause.
I know the biggest argument against this is that evasion is handle-able, but honestly, that does not matter. Evasion is uncompetitive, and honestly, the metagame shoudl not hold something that allows something mediocre to win through virtue of luck. I'm not arguing evasion is broken, because it isn't, I'm arguing that it is something that does not add to the metagame. IT does not make balanced hackmons a better thing to play, it just detracts and makes it less fun. This metagame is supposed to be a more competitive version of Hackmons, and I think an evasion clause would really help meet that goal.

I wouldn't mind an evasion clause but I don't really think we need one. I've been swept by sub+minimize+cosmic power+baton pass to shuckle before, then I started running prakster heart swap groudon, and to be honest, opponents maxing out their evasion and defence has won me more battles since then than it's lost. I honestly will let then boost defence and evasion freely now, knowing I can just steal all their boosts, put them to sleep, and trap them with 1000 arrows. If it's going to cause every team to run something like aerial ace just to counter it, it probably should be banned, but I think it's relatively easy to counter, or at least it has been for me. No guard pokes beat it, heart swap pokes beat it, topsy turvy beats it, and I think most teams run at least one of those options.

 

[Halliday]

Refrigerate Stomp let's go.

In all seriousness, there isn't really too much of a reason to keep evasion around. However, saying "it's not fun to play against" isn't really the best justification, no offense BK.

That wasn't the point I was trying to make. The point I was making was that it doesn't do much to dd to the metagame - all it does is make it less competitive. It not being fun to play against is just another reason it should go - this is a game, it's for fun.

 

[Muhznit]

That wasn't the point I was trying to make. The point I was making was that it doesn't do much to dd to the metagame - all it does is make it less competitive. It not being fun to play against is just another reason it should go - this is a game, it's for fun.

Funny, that subjective statement can be applied to pretty much anything people hate in this meta. Personally, I'd apply it to using more than one of the same pokemon.

I've used a Minimize + Sub Giratina with Curse and Harvest pretty effectively once the Pixilators and Refrigerators are gone. The evasion make subs significantly harder to break; much more so than cosmic power can hope for since it's no longer depending on the pokemon's defense stat and relying on random chance. Curse means that opponents pretty much NEED to switch or use a support move at least every 4 turns, leaving them with about three turns to press the offensive, and on average only one of those turns will lead to a success in even HITTING the sub. Normally I'd be okay with Evasion in OU, but the superfast healing available in hackmons leads to a lot of overlapping mechanics that combine in lethal ways.

But while Evasion is annoying, there's still things like Soundproof Perish Song, Unaware, No Guard, and the ever-present threat of Imposters, especially since any sane person would always carry Skill Swap to bypass sub.

On a side note, I have no clue where it was started, but I'm in full support of a Species clause. I'd eagerly get rid of any use of evasion to not deal with the BS that is Double Imposters.

 

[Pikachu Murderer]

Thx for the helpful criticism, evasion is not op, and here is my Pivot.

Zombie (Shedinja) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Sturdy
Evs:252 Atk/ 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
IVs:Nan Def / Nan SpD
-Reflect
-Light Screen
-Safe Guard
-U-Turn
Pretty much your normal pivot, once Safe Guard is up, he is unaffected by anything and can freely set up.

 

[AWailOfATail]

Thx for the helpful criticism, evasion is not op, and here is my Pivot.

Zombie (Shedinja) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Sturdy
Evs:252 Atk/ 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
IVs:Nan Def / Nan SpD
-Reflect
-Light Screen
-Safe Guard
-U-Turn
Pretty much your normal pivot, once Safe Guard is up, he is unaffected by anything and can freely set up.

Few things:
Still loses to mold breaker and infestation and the like.
Also, run volt switch bc Rocky Helmets exist.

ANYWAY I wanna try out a PH Support Regigigas set. Probably could work on Arceus but I think the extra attack will be useful. I'll let everyone know how it turns out (probably not very well)