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Ladder Balanced Hackmons
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Odd but it's the case. You can bring hacked items, abilities, and mons in to battle. You can use Swift Swim Choice Specs Mega Ampharos with Spore.
You just broke the OM room holy shit.
Anyways, I see this causing a HUGE lean in the metagame towards Heavy Offense, when before the meta was leaning towards stall, at least in my opinion. Mega Mewtwo just got ridiculously good, nearly banworthy even? I'd genuinely like to entertain the idea of individual pokemon getting suspects with this change.
Also rip Adrian Marin your stall willnot be missed
Anyways, I see this causing a HUGE lean in the metagame towards Heavy Offense, when before the meta was leaning towards stall, at least in my opinion. Mega Mewtwo just got ridiculously good, nearly banworthy even? I'd genuinely like to entertain the idea of individual pokemon getting suspects with this change.
Also rip Adrian Marin your stall will
Lcass4919
The Xatu Warrior
this is more like meta ruining O.o this is going to change the meta in such an offensive shift its actually making me -a offensive player- sick, first things first, if we want this meta even remotely decent, we need to remove mega mewtwo x, y, mega gengar, and i cant even name the rest of them there's just too many broken mega's right now. oh god. wait. imposter....WHY DID THIS HAVE TO HAPPEN. ;~;
Are you serious? It will get prominent? How?
That sounds exactly like a reason to worry about offense lol. Kyube can just 2HKO everything not physically defensive lol.
Also, we should probably stop with the one line posts. We can discuss this civilly without making it look like we're all just shitposting. Sure this is a big change, but there's no reason to make this derail the quality level of the threat before.
Kit Kasai
Love colored magic
You pretty much had what i was thinking all along! I was saying in the back of my mind, Kyurem 1 KO - 2 KO's everything that's not physically defensive, so why are we taking the focus away from a offense approach? Curious to see all your answers.
Of course its prominent... I wasn't suggesting otherwise, but if it gets more prominient wouldn't it be broken? Which is why i want to know about Burger's opinion.
Kyurem Black isn't a wallbreaker, it's for killing sweepers. With sweepers being less bulky, it's niche is increased
Ok, I don't like this change at all, but it's best not to complain about it and just move on, we can't change it now. So, anyways, I had my first battle with this new limit and it wasn't as bad as expected. Losing bulk everywhere didn't seem to impact me as much as I would've thought. Another thing is that right now Kyurem-B looks absolutely terrifying. It 2HKOes practically all non-physically bulky Pokemon and can storm over offensive teams with ease. I'm not finding the meta to be as horrible as being said right now, but again, it won't be the same. We'll just have to play and find out how it goes, honestly no point in complaining about it, facts are facts.
Yeah, stall is pretty much impossible now without any bans. I may as well stop playing BH as it's really boring with just offense all over the place.
I'm not sure if I'm gonna keep playing either. I run balanced stall, and I doubt it will work with the new meta. I'll probably try it, but I'm not sure if I'll get back into it.
It'd be nice if people could take the time to stop playing the alarmist role. This change has literally not even been put onsite yet and people are talking about the death of the meta. As a community, the best course of action for us is to not let this change be the end of something great, but see it as the change that it is. The meta's changed, in some ways we can predict and some we can't. Right now our best bet is to figure out what things look like now. Once the dust has settled I will be more than willing to go back on my rule of not banning Pokemon if it becomes apparent that we're in danger of a 4th gen Kyogre, but for now I think we shouldn't talk about throwing in any sort of metaphorical towel.
Edit: the success of BH is largely due to you guys and your dedication to it. I am extremely proud to see how big this community has grown and can grow in the future, but right now we need to learn to work together as opposed to working against each other. Please don't say things like "I'm going to quit" before you've even seen a match with the new system.
Edit: the success of BH is largely due to you guys and your dedication to it. I am extremely proud to see how big this community has grown and can grow in the future, but right now we need to learn to work together as opposed to working against each other. Please don't say things like "I'm going to quit" before you've even seen a match with the new system.
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Well... this is interesting. It seems like it'll shift things more towards offense, but then again, offense now lacks bulk, which means bulky, stally mons can now inflict decent damage with unboosted attacks. For example...
0- Atk Umbreon Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-B: 208-246 (53.1 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
vs the current
0- Atk Umbreon Foul Play vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Kyurem-B: 165-195 (36.3 - 42.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
That's an Adamant 252 Attack Kyu-B, for reference. And if you're curious about the return damage...
252+ Atk Refrigerate Kyurem-B Extreme Speed vs. 100 HP / 204+ Def Umbreon: 160-189 (44.9 - 53%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (The spread comes from a mixed-bulk set I used in a standard tier, hence why it's not 252/252).
This is a huge change though and pretty much kills every single team and every single set in the meta. But at the same time, it opens up a lot of new potential roles and speed tiers are actually based on more than just base + nature + boosts. It also possibly opens up the field for some other mons that are overlooked. For example, Umbreon again might have a bit more of a niche over Yveltal since the latter is weak to Kyu-B and can't just slap on 252/252/252 bulk to make up for it. Entei might see used over Blaziken since it can take hits better, glass cannons might be more viable, and so forth.
Though I honestly do worry about some nukes, like Protean Ytwo, who can already 2HKO huge swaths of the tier when everything already runs max bulk.
Edit: Oh, we'll probably need to take down the BH thread for underrated sets and reboot it later after the meta stabilizes. Even if everything in it ends up being usable in some form, all the sets list max all EVs.
0- Atk Umbreon Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-B: 208-246 (53.1 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
vs the current
0- Atk Umbreon Foul Play vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Kyurem-B: 165-195 (36.3 - 42.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
That's an Adamant 252 Attack Kyu-B, for reference. And if you're curious about the return damage...
252+ Atk Refrigerate Kyurem-B Extreme Speed vs. 100 HP / 204+ Def Umbreon: 160-189 (44.9 - 53%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (The spread comes from a mixed-bulk set I used in a standard tier, hence why it's not 252/252).
This is a huge change though and pretty much kills every single team and every single set in the meta. But at the same time, it opens up a lot of new potential roles and speed tiers are actually based on more than just base + nature + boosts. It also possibly opens up the field for some other mons that are overlooked. For example, Umbreon again might have a bit more of a niche over Yveltal since the latter is weak to Kyu-B and can't just slap on 252/252/252 bulk to make up for it. Entei might see used over Blaziken since it can take hits better, glass cannons might be more viable, and so forth.
Though I honestly do worry about some nukes, like Protean Ytwo, who can already 2HKO huge swaths of the tier when everything already runs max bulk.
Edit: Oh, we'll probably need to take down the BH thread for underrated sets and reboot it later after the meta stabilizes. Even if everything in it ends up being usable in some form, all the sets list max all EVs.
Is this what you meant in regards to your prior post? If it's that then thanks for clarifying what you meant in your early post. I know that Kyurem is useful against Sweepers (not all of them have good bulk), but when you said about not worrying about offense. Didn't know what you meant there :>
It's quite clear to say that speed creep is going to be prominent. We've been discussing possible bans before this update.
Possible suspects are as follows:
Possible suspects are as follows:
- Protean
- Pixilate
- Refrigerate
- Aerilate
- Mega Mewtwo Y, Mega Mewtwo X, Mega Latios, Mega Latias, Mega Gengar
Pikachuun
the entire waruda machine
Science (BH branch obviously) has done many things for us. Some were good, and some were bad, and each of them forced us to adapt. Science allowed us to discover that we can run Mega-Evolutions without mega-evolving them. Then it has discovered that we could, in fact, run Soul Dew on Mega-Lati@s, making the stall players like Adrian Marin scream in terror. It has even gone so far as to determine that you can mega-evolve an already mega-evolved Pokemon. Normally, this would be a good place to stop. But science has gone even further and discovered this literally BH-bending thing. I have only one question to ask.
R.I.P. Balanced Hackmons and Pure Hackmons 2013-2014; the new era is upon us. And it is glorious.
R.I.P. Balanced Hackmons and Pure Hackmons 2013-2014; the new era is upon us. And it is glorious.
Just actually curious, is it actually confirmed by a source that you can't battle others with >510 EV pokemon in-game? Been searching around on the net, for no results.
although... rip bh i suppose.
although... rip bh i suppose.
Speed creep makes any metagame more fun.
(Also can we ban all perma trapping yet)
(Also can we ban all perma trapping yet)
Huh. That's a thing.
Hmm. One side-effect that I can see is that it's slightly easier to take down Contrary things with priority now. Slightly. Actually, priority in general just got a lot more important now that it's harder to shrug off the boosted Espeeds that tend to get thrown around all the time. Things that didn't mind taking damage while setting up, like Gyara-M or TTar-M don't like this either, though if they're running Shift Gear they can probably drop investing in Speed for HP.
And the Mega-Twos that people are worried about? Got easier to revenge kill. If you run offense. Yeah, Stall... didn't quite die but it took a nasty hit.
Hmm. One side-effect that I can see is that it's slightly easier to take down Contrary things with priority now. Slightly. Actually, priority in general just got a lot more important now that it's harder to shrug off the boosted Espeeds that tend to get thrown around all the time. Things that didn't mind taking damage while setting up, like Gyara-M or TTar-M don't like this either, though if they're running Shift Gear they can probably drop investing in Speed for HP.
And the Mega-Twos that people are worried about? Got easier to revenge kill. If you run offense. Yeah, Stall... didn't quite die but it took a nasty hit.
Monte Cristo
Banned deucer.
Look, I know you're concerned about balance hackmons- but when you literally take away the glue and huge aspect of the metagame, you can't stop people from not liking it.
By taking away such a huge focus that we all took for granted, you are essentially taking away the "glue" that made balanced hackmons precisely free range enough for us to enjoy. Without that glue, the package falss apart. You can try some weird shitty $0.99 brand Duck Tape (bans) but it'll kinda end up a shadow of what it truly was.
Banning stuff isn't going to fix it because the point was in BH- we found stupid funny ways to balance out our metas without having to resort to banning if something isn't truly in essence un-competitive , with this ruling applied and pokemon bans being placed, you really take away the freedom aspect of the meta.
I know you want the community and all the people to be at peace playing this meta again- but you can't have your cake and eat it too.
This is like if the government passed a law to make all forms of drugs, alcohol and tobacco, (cigs, weed, alcohol) illegal and then expected nobody to get mad. (also a reason why they don't make it illegal- it's just a bad business move overall) You can't expect to have this new rule and still have your same community. We're not robots that are stuck on playing BH no matter what- we will get pissed and might even quit if something we invested so much time, so much hours so much days, even MONTHS and YEARS for some- becomes a shell of what it used to be, it becomes something somewhat of an undesirable product/metagame/whatever. Don't forget this isn't just the meta your leading, this is the communities will you have in your palms. If you decide to make just one wrong accidental turn, people will leave. That's just the way it works