-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Serious LGBTQ
- Thread starter Chinchou
- Start date
- Status
I'm aware.
lol since Thund made his post I've begun to realize I've grown so tired of the "fruity" gay guys, which it seems is what the prominent "gay community" is constantly perpetuating. Like, I'm proud to be gay, I'm happy I am gay and comfortable with it and am ecstatic that others are too. But I'm so tired of others putting it on display. Just so tired of it, tired of it being so prominent in the outlets to find other gay guys, tired of the regular populace expecting me to be fruity when I come out that I am gay, tired of most of the other gay people I meet being extremely over the top and others actively encouraging it, tired of it being the prominent stereotype displayed in the media, just tired.
I just want normal. The last two guys I dated were "normal" but both were also afraid of coming out to their whole family which prevented our relationship from going anywhere. And a large portion of the "straight-acting" ones are douchebags or completely in the closet.
I guess like anything there's few decent people in the world but oml it's just so frustrating.
I just want normal. The last two guys I dated were "normal" but both were also afraid of coming out to their whole family which prevented our relationship from going anywhere. And a large portion of the "straight-acting" ones are douchebags or completely in the closet.
I guess like anything there's few decent people in the world but oml it's just so frustrating.
Actually we gays owe a lot to the feminine gay guys. It's not like the closet cases are out there fighting for equality. We enjoy what we do now because they decided that they're tired of being shit on.
Yet inside and outside of the gay "community" they get hated on the most.
The only reason I don't have feminine gay friends (my gay friends are slim pickings anyway), is because I don't like their diva personalities. Yes it's funny in a YouTube sketch but it does get annoying quickly because they feel the need to fit the stereotype to a T. I'm not talking about their voice or appearance, I'm talking about the fact they feel they have to also have this bitchy attitude that comes with the stereotype. Not attractive at all.
Have u ever seen grinder tho?
gay people hate on themselves hardcore through consumption of gay stereotypes, js. straight people hate too, but not in the supposedly 'safe spaces', being in the closet does not mean you don't contribute meaningfully to justice projects. Just existing and being out as a gay person is actually not just some activist thing to do because you fuck men or w.e, or if you do, don't act like every sexuality is just never gonna change for all and e'er, cause there are hella white lesbians from back in the day who got husbands now and they all came out as lesbians 5ever and now they look dumb, imo. 'They' (the many essentializers of sexuality and sex acts, not just white feminists) ruined the game for everyone who wanted to be deviant, but didn't want their sex acts to define their identity.
As for the closet, and being out of it, and 'fighting for justice by existing as an abstract concept': You wouldn't even recognize the people who get hated on the most. You don't see them. They won't be on TV, you won't see a media outcry when they kill themselves. They're the bodies that can't come out of the closet and into the newly commodified homonormative, 'they' don't really have a language for their bodies, you may not either. Cece McDonald, long may she live, there's a feminine queer person that gets hated on, no doubt, but still no interviews of homeless transexual teens. There won't be an 'it gets better' video featuring someone that looks like one of these bodies, it doesn't 'get better' for them, because there is no white liberal celebrity capital organizing around a justice project for their bodies. They'll die a slow death. Maybe they'll kill themselves, maybe they'll be killed for existing around the wrong person, maybe they'll go to jail, die of an overdose, alcoholism, etc. It will all be so mundane, they'll be so.. quiet about it. And then the next thing you know
http://www.jasbirpuar.com/assets/The-Cost-of-Getting-Better.pdf
So yeah, just because ur out of the closet doesn't mean ur not a republican or a democrat, and being out of the closet suggests quite a certainty about one's future sex acts. at the same time not everyone can safely come out of the closet and not everyone feels a need to.
gay people hate on themselves hardcore through consumption of gay stereotypes, js. straight people hate too, but not in the supposedly 'safe spaces', being in the closet does not mean you don't contribute meaningfully to justice projects. Just existing and being out as a gay person is actually not just some activist thing to do because you fuck men or w.e, or if you do, don't act like every sexuality is just never gonna change for all and e'er, cause there are hella white lesbians from back in the day who got husbands now and they all came out as lesbians 5ever and now they look dumb, imo. 'They' (the many essentializers of sexuality and sex acts, not just white feminists) ruined the game for everyone who wanted to be deviant, but didn't want their sex acts to define their identity.
As for the closet, and being out of it, and 'fighting for justice by existing as an abstract concept': You wouldn't even recognize the people who get hated on the most. You don't see them. They won't be on TV, you won't see a media outcry when they kill themselves. They're the bodies that can't come out of the closet and into the newly commodified homonormative, 'they' don't really have a language for their bodies, you may not either. Cece McDonald, long may she live, there's a feminine queer person that gets hated on, no doubt, but still no interviews of homeless transexual teens. There won't be an 'it gets better' video featuring someone that looks like one of these bodies, it doesn't 'get better' for them, because there is no white liberal celebrity capital organizing around a justice project for their bodies. They'll die a slow death. Maybe they'll kill themselves, maybe they'll be killed for existing around the wrong person, maybe they'll go to jail, die of an overdose, alcoholism, etc. It will all be so mundane, they'll be so.. quiet about it. And then the next thing you know
http://www.jasbirpuar.com/assets/The-Cost-of-Getting-Better.pdf
So yeah, just because ur out of the closet doesn't mean ur not a republican or a democrat, and being out of the closet suggests quite a certainty about one's future sex acts. at the same time not everyone can safely come out of the closet and not everyone feels a need to.
Last edited:
I'm not implying that being in the closet is a bad thing. The term I used was actually 'closet case,' as in those gay people who attempt to hinder progress and publicly show their distaste of all things gay while taking it up the pooper behind closed doors. Internalized homophobia at its finest, basically.
In regards to transgendered people, I can say I dont know enough about the science behind it or their plight to comment further.
However, I'm under the impression that the two are not related. I'm a gay man, and I love my penis. A MtF transsexual does not like it and believes they should have been born female. I dont see how it's related to being gay at all unless they also like the same gender after their surgery (in this case, females).
Everything that's considered non-hetero is being lumped into one. I'm having trouble keeping up. LGBQT. What's next? LGBQTRSUV?
In regards to transgendered people, I can say I dont know enough about the science behind it or their plight to comment further.
However, I'm under the impression that the two are not related. I'm a gay man, and I love my penis. A MtF transsexual does not like it and believes they should have been born female. I dont see how it's related to being gay at all unless they also like the same gender after their surgery (in this case, females).
Everything that's considered non-hetero is being lumped into one. I'm having trouble keeping up. LGBQT. What's next? LGBQTRSUV?
Last edited:
the thing that binds everyone in the "queer" (using this for simplicity and inclusiveness b/c otherwise i'm just being a hippo crit) community together is theoretically the challenges that every person in the group faces by not conforming to a heteronormative or cisnormative society. imo it makes as little sense to arbitrarily group all "queer" people together as it does to group all gay people together - none of them are black-and-white, categorical things that should automatically place you in one group or another. the point of having the long string of letters is essentially to create a community of people who are more likely to be looked down upon or discriminated against because of the way society views their attraction to and affiliation to a certain gender
Actually Thund, I am a transgender MtF and I can honestly say that I do not hate the fact that I have a penis. For me, a penis is a penis. I don't attribute anything in particular to it because it is honestly not that relevant to my life as a whole (this can obviously change). Despite this, I still consider myself to be a girl through and through. As I have said before in this thread, You don't need to show this "proof" of you being transgender through desiring a complete overhaul of your body to fit your wanted image. A transgender individual can express themselves in pretty much any way that they want: You can't isolate one specific thing that many seem to share and assume that it will apply to all of them. That is just flat out lazy thinking.
Well it's like I said I don't know the science behind it or anything. I just find it odd that people group them together.
I have a question for you if you don't mind? Are you sexually attracted to males, females, or both? If you're attracted to females wouldn't you be a lesbian as well, since you identify as female? (This is a little confusing for me if you cant already tell lol)
are pedophiles considered queer or is pedophilia not considered a sexual orientation? other philias such as necro, zoo, hemo, etc are also under the umbrella of this question. also those like otherkins, sonic marriers, all that stuff. does the larger queer community feel any solidarity with these other, less-mainstream kinks? I am not trying to degrade any group, I am just curious and if calling being gay a kink is offensive I apologize
I see. But I think my original point is that this "community" attempts to avoid discrimination from a heteronormative society while being just as discriminatory if not worse on the inside. What's the point of that than?
I am sexually attracted to females, so in my eyes, yes, that would make me a lesbian due to how I personnely identify myself as female. Really, who I am sexually attracted to doesn't concern me all that much as sex isn't something I really think about a whole lot, but I know for sure that I am a lesbian. I know that having a penis kinda complicates this, but whatever.
The whole point (at least how I can see it) is to basically consolidate into one large group that would theoretically have a greater amount of clout with which to influence the public and lessen the discrimination from society. The large amount of discrimination comes from the fact that there is this generally accepted view that people seem to have of gay/lesbian/bi/trans/whatever other thing that basically causes these communities to start accepting this rigid set of "guidelines" that must be followed. When people move outside of these guidelines, they get attacked and discriminated within the community for not conforming. It also helps when people within the community have knee-jerk reactions and pre-formed ideas about other groups within said community and are plentiful enough to discriminate against this smaller portion without fear of backlash. Really, the biggest issue is just that trying to assimilate different groups with different goals into the same group and somehow expecting them to just work together perfectly without any issues.
The point of it being so discriminatory? People just like to feel like they are better or that their choices are smarter or the "right" ones. It doesn't matter even if the people in the community want to escape discrimination from a heteronormative society: they will bring their own kind of discrimination with them because they want to be on top.
Sorry in advance if this makes no sense. I tend to ramble a bit when I'm writing.
don't forget about the nun-seducers.
the queer communities and the kink-communities are co-extensive, many people are members of both, if that helps answer the question. Wouldn't be surprised if a community was revolted by pedophilia, tbh, doesn't really help anyone's image to give more visibility to pedophiles right?
Don't worry, it made perfect sense.
I can see why the idea of having as large a group as possible to have as much influence as you can may seem appealing, but it also causes headaches, and people will always prioritize their needs before others.
A gay person will most likely always support their own causes first before anyone else in the group, as an example.
Honestly I feel like bisexuals have it the worst. It's almost at a point where people forget they even exist. A bisexual person dating a man? Gay. A woman? Straight
Funny story. One of my ex's was bisexual and when I first met him I thought he was off the dating table because he had a girlfriend at the time. Turns out a few months later they break up and we started dating.
Im guilty of "bisexual erasure" sometimes myself.
I used to feel this way pretty much exactly. It makes a lot of sense--most gay men are attracted to masculinity. For the most part, there's nothing wrong with that. Where it starts becoming wrong is where gays (in general, not just gay men, though that's obviously the subgroup where I'm most experienced) begin to hate on each other. Myzozoa referred to Grindr, and though I'm not sure I know exactly what he's referring to, it's a good example for this. I made a Grindr account a while back because a friend recommended it to me, and it was packed with gay men who directly associated gay with feminine and didn't want anything to do with it. In my experience, that phase of trying to fit the gay mold goes away after a while. Some people just happen to fit that and will continue to act that way forever, and that's ok. But the ones who have deluded themselves into believing that they must act a certain way are just trying to express themselves in the only way that they know how. I'm speaking from experience, both personal with the way I acted for the years directly following coming out and on behalf of some close gay friends.
I've also gotten over wanting to be with a man who fights the gay male stereotypes because I just don't care about it anymore. I still understand your perspective, but I've grown to value the things I actually care about much more. I'd simply rather be with a feminine man who shares many of my interests, understands and cares about the way I think and feel, and makes an effort to spend time with me than a more masculine man who doesn't do even one of those things. Even the sexual chemistry of the former and me would be greater than that of the latter and me because I'd actually care about the feminine guy, even if I'm more physically attracted to the masculine one.
Of course, all bets are off if Robert Downey Jr. gives me a call.
Grindr is the most horrific thing I've ever lied my eyes on. My friend downloaded it on my phone because she wanted to mess with the guys on there. Within minutes of posting my picture she got about 7 penis pics and a ton of "come ova" or "when we meeting?" I think the penis pics kinda scarred her.
Although all the dating/online sites catering to a gay male clientele will usually have discrete/masculine gay guys as a majority. Why? Well it's discrete obviously, but it's also easier to spot feminine gay guys in the street so they feel they have no where else to look if they want someone similar to them.
As for me. Still turned off by a lot of feminine gay guys because of their attitude, which is a shame because most of them are pretty good looking.
I have debated for awhile whether to post this here or not, but I've been struggling for a long time with coming out to my parents / family, and I think I'm in need of some unbiased advice. :s
obligatory background info first ~
Now that that's out of the way, time for my anecdotal experience ~
Well, that's basically the story. I know the anecdote is kinda sloppy and wordy, so I apologize to anyone that reads it, and I can fix that tomorrow when it's not early AM. ~_~
The big question is... Knowing everything I've presented here, is it worth telling my parents before I move out? If so, what would be an ideal way of approaching it?
My sister once explicitly talked about her compassion/support for LGBT people, and I could tell by her language that her support doesn't just stop after the altar. I'm thinking about telling her first within my family, since I don't expect anything worse than a shocked reaction, and I have no problem being open with her about any questions she may have due to our friendship. Plus we can talk about all the cute guys she loves to bring up, since right now I have to hold myself back from engaging in that topic with her... all the time. :(((
Anyway, I'm going to go listen to Queen Ariana Grande's album at 3am because I have the music taste of a 13 year old girl. Thank you so much for reading (if you did), and if you choose to respond I will greatly appreciate it. :)
obligatory background info first ~
I am 19, gay, male, and living at home b/c community college (likely moving out by January).
I am "out" to all of my friends, but to nobody in my family.
My personal philosophy with "coming out" is that I only feel the need to inform immediate family, my close circle of friends, and anybody who happens to directly ask me about it. Basically, it's not a secret, but it's certainly no announcement either.
My friends are all 100% accepting, I knew that going in, and it was thus a completely non-issue by the time I was ready to confide in them (which was this January). Albeit minor, a few of them gave me this "well it's about time" vibe (since apparently I was obvious? idk) -- at first it made me feel like I "took too long," but I eventually got over that so it's not a problem anymore.
I am "out" to all of my friends, but to nobody in my family.
My personal philosophy with "coming out" is that I only feel the need to inform immediate family, my close circle of friends, and anybody who happens to directly ask me about it. Basically, it's not a secret, but it's certainly no announcement either.
My friends are all 100% accepting, I knew that going in, and it was thus a completely non-issue by the time I was ready to confide in them (which was this January). Albeit minor, a few of them gave me this "well it's about time" vibe (since apparently I was obvious? idk) -- at first it made me feel like I "took too long," but I eventually got over that so it's not a problem anymore.
Now that that's out of the way, time for my anecdotal experience ~
When I was 15 (ignorant about sexuality), my dad was driving me to an extracurricular, and out of the blue he said that my mom was convinced that I'm gay. After that, he then asked me verbatim: "Trevor [my name], are you gay?" Naturally, I said no and lied to him because I was afraid of how he (and eventually everyone else) would react, and it basically forced me to confirm or deny my identity before I was ready to.
Since then, I've gotten mixed messages about whether or not they had believed me. Some examples?
That is, until I overheard my dad talking with my sister about the the show Big Brother. For those who don't watch the show (lucky you, it's such a trashy addiction of mine), the only important thing to know is that there was a very touchy/gay relationship going on between two of the male contestants (only one of which is actually gay). My sister is a fan of this pairing, but after telling my dad her thoughts on it he immediately shut it down by saying: "I think it's disgusting."
The moment I heard him say that I felt a slight pain in my chest-- I sat there stunned, heartbroken, and emotionally devastated. From there, I just left the room feeling very disheartened knowing that he would've been hiding those hurtful thoughts from me had I decided to tell my parents sooner.
Before hearing that, I had been contemplating when would be an ideal time to come out to my parents. However, after hearing his raw and uncensored opinion on actual gay romance (as opposed to just marriage rights), it became a matter of if I feel safe and supported whilst being myself around my parents.
Since then, I've gotten mixed messages about whether or not they had believed me. Some examples?
- A few months ago, my dad got me some random cheerleader poster "as a joke" (since my parents were at a sporting event). After I told him I didn't want it, I heard him tell my mom about the joke, to which she responded: "well are you surprised?" This told me that she likely holds her same suspicion 3-4 years later.
- On the other hand, my dad tends to make lots of references to my future with "some nice woman / girl," such as "learning to do xyz b/c women are impressed by that, one day you'll meet a nice girl and she'll really be impressed that you can do xyz, etc." I hear that shit daily. :P
That is, until I overheard my dad talking with my sister about the the show Big Brother. For those who don't watch the show (lucky you, it's such a trashy addiction of mine), the only important thing to know is that there was a very touchy/gay relationship going on between two of the male contestants (only one of which is actually gay). My sister is a fan of this pairing, but after telling my dad her thoughts on it he immediately shut it down by saying: "I think it's disgusting."
The moment I heard him say that I felt a slight pain in my chest-- I sat there stunned, heartbroken, and emotionally devastated. From there, I just left the room feeling very disheartened knowing that he would've been hiding those hurtful thoughts from me had I decided to tell my parents sooner.
Before hearing that, I had been contemplating when would be an ideal time to come out to my parents. However, after hearing his raw and uncensored opinion on actual gay romance (as opposed to just marriage rights), it became a matter of if I feel safe and supported whilst being myself around my parents.
Well, that's basically the story. I know the anecdote is kinda sloppy and wordy, so I apologize to anyone that reads it, and I can fix that tomorrow when it's not early AM. ~_~
The big question is... Knowing everything I've presented here, is it worth telling my parents before I move out? If so, what would be an ideal way of approaching it?
My sister once explicitly talked about her compassion/support for LGBT people, and I could tell by her language that her support doesn't just stop after the altar. I'm thinking about telling her first within my family, since I don't expect anything worse than a shocked reaction, and I have no problem being open with her about any questions she may have due to our friendship. Plus we can talk about all the cute guys she loves to bring up, since right now I have to hold myself back from engaging in that topic with her... all the time. :(((
Anyway, I'm going to go listen to Queen Ariana Grande's album at 3am because I have the music taste of a 13 year old girl. Thank you so much for reading (if you did), and if you choose to respond I will greatly appreciate it. :)
Last edited:
if you believe that your parents' attitude towards you would be significantly altered emotionally, physically, financially, or any other way, and you value the benefits of their ignorance more than their knowledge, then you're certainly allowed to delay telling them until you move out. in the case of your sister, though, I would tell her if you feel comfortable doing so. Having someone inside the family who already knows and is supportive can be really helpful when you actually do get around to coming out - especially if she's involved in that conversation.
I wouldn't be overly put off by your father's ignorance, though. The fact that he even directly asked you when you were 15 and that there seems to be a running discourse between him and your mother as to your sexuality suggests that he is somewhat capable of dealing with it - or at least has considered the possibility. A lot of people are ignorant, but when "gay" becomes a close family member rather than a nameless, formless concept they often are more willing to move past their ignorance and see things from your perspective.
You aren't obligated to come out to anyone, as ultimately it is your choice who you share your sexuality with. However, your question seems to be more of a matter of when than if, so I have to come back to the first sentence. Come out when it makes sense, when you feel comfortable with it, when you're ready.
I wouldn't be overly put off by your father's ignorance, though. The fact that he even directly asked you when you were 15 and that there seems to be a running discourse between him and your mother as to your sexuality suggests that he is somewhat capable of dealing with it - or at least has considered the possibility. A lot of people are ignorant, but when "gay" becomes a close family member rather than a nameless, formless concept they often are more willing to move past their ignorance and see things from your perspective.
You aren't obligated to come out to anyone, as ultimately it is your choice who you share your sexuality with. However, your question seems to be more of a matter of when than if, so I have to come back to the first sentence. Come out when it makes sense, when you feel comfortable with it, when you're ready.
Someone just shared this with me today, and because I'm a sadist and want others to suffer with me, I figured I'd share it here with all of you!
Poor timing after The Great Gastly's post, but it goes to show that sometimes it might be better to wait. Don't let it deter you though. Not all families are fucked up.
Also Team Zankie all the way oo
Poor timing after The Great Gastly's post, but it goes to show that sometimes it might be better to wait. Don't let it deter you though. Not all families are fucked up.
Also Team Zankie all the way oo
I meant to reply to this a few days ago, but I can't thank you enough for this response. It means a lot, and helps a ton!
I particularly agree with your final point, since I can't keep this a secret forever, nor do I want to.
lmao no (okay maybe)
That video though...
Mom: "I have known that you were gay since you were a tiny, little boy."
Thirty seconds later..."I believe God creates nobody that way, and it's a path that you have chosen." -___-
Last edited:
i can't believe that your takeaway from a video highlighting the tragedy of ignorance and abuse against gay youth in the United States is that someone armed with facts who refuses to be willingly cast aside by his own family as shameful and disgraceful is somehow disrespectful
sorry, but get a grip. in no way is it okay to physically and verbally assault someone because they refuse to have lies and slander thrown in their face without attempting to fight back against them.
oh and on the topics of things i can't believe, I absolutely don't believe that your takeaway from the video is that "wow, children talk back to their parents???", you're just using that as a method of evading the fact that a child's own family is literally physically attacking him as if him not willing to submit to the biased ignorance of his parents somehow justifies him being assaulted
sorry, but get a grip. in no way is it okay to physically and verbally assault someone because they refuse to have lies and slander thrown in their face without attempting to fight back against them.
oh and on the topics of things i can't believe, I absolutely don't believe that your takeaway from the video is that "wow, children talk back to their parents???", you're just using that as a method of evading the fact that a child's own family is literally physically attacking him as if him not willing to submit to the biased ignorance of his parents somehow justifies him being assaulted
but real talk this dude knew going into the situation that it was very possible for it to go awry, which it does, and he KNOWS what he can do about the situation he is in, and does not take any option of leaving said situation. Dude shoulda just left the place as soon as shit got violent because God knows he didn't want to or know how to fight back. There was no need to keep standing there taking punches when they were offering him and out and not listening to anything he said.
Unavoidable situation, sure, but completely possible to avoid many bruises also =]
kid's dumb, parents also dumb, everyone in situation = dumb. every1 pls teach ur children to avoid dumb situations like this one. =]
Unavoidable situation, sure, but completely possible to avoid many bruises also =]
kid's dumb, parents also dumb, everyone in situation = dumb. every1 pls teach ur children to avoid dumb situations like this one. =]
So if we should teach our children to avoid "dumb situations" (such as putting trust his/her own family -- how foolish!), why can't we also teach people to not resort to physical and verbal attacks in the face of misunderstanding? That would reduce the likelihood of these "dumb situations" (and a lot of other problems) in the first place.
I hate using this term because it's becoming cliched, but please stop victim blaming -- it isn't cool. Address the real problem, because it certainly isn't anything the kid did wrong.
It takes a lot less effort to tell one person how to avoid a bad situation than to reeducate everyone else involved in the bad situation to not react that way in the first place.
People will react poorly, lash out, some people were even raised to think these are acceptable solutions to conflict, or some people were abused and perpetuate it.
Learn how to react to the situations and stay safe yourself and navigate them or get beat up and wailed on until you grow the thick skin required.
The world ain't sweet, sooner people learn they need to watch out for themselves because they cannot control others' reactions, the better.
- Status