Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V3) (Rank changes are over until ORAS)

[Jayd]

Are people still calling Trace inconsistent? Here in August 2014?

Look: the vast majority of abilities are consistently useful under certain conditions. Trace is one of these abilities.

Sand Rush is consistently useful in sand, and consistently useless outside of it.
Intimidate is consistently useful against physical attackers, and consistently useless on everything else.
Unaware is consistently useful against set-up sweepers and consistently useless against things that don't boost their stats.
Trace is consistently useful in a significant list of scenarios and consistently useless outside of those.

I don't know if people keep calling it inconsistent because the various scenarios in which it is useful are more disjointed than the conditions under which more traditional abilities are useful, or if it is because those scenarios are rarer, or if it is a combination of these. If those are the reasons people have to dislike Trace, then they should make those arguments explicitly (or don't, because they are bad arguments).

I hope that puts the issue to rest. If it doesn't, I probably won't mention it again anyway because it's not worth it. In any case, I would support Alakazam moving up because it's good, very fun to use, and looks awesome.

 

[pop098]

okay mega gardevoir takes physical attacks like toilet paper and using the 3rd most powerful physical move in the game as an example isn't really saying much

although this may be true mega medicham hits even some of the bulkiest things really hard even pokemon that resist it take more than 50% from its attacks although i dont think it should be banned or s rank i definantly think it should be up there with the other A+ pokemon

 

[MrCookiepants]

MegaCham is just ridiculously hard to deal with unless you have a bulky Psychic type. You pretty much have to sack something whenever you find yourself in an unfavourable matchup against it. And its hit and run Fake Out tactics can quickly wear down faster threats when paired with hazards.

Also, I don't see how Trace is unreliable. Maybe in the sense that you have to Mega Evolve before using it to revenge kill a weather sweeper. But I can't think of a situation in which it would be detrimental. Sometimes useless, sure, but never detrimental.

MegaZam with Encore and Sub is a lot of fun. I just love how defensive Heatran literally cannot touch it. Always a free sub.

And I know Cosmic Power Clefable is not a good set, but it can be a pain if not prepared for. Tracing Unaware, Encoring it into Cosmic/Stored Power and then just annihilating it with Psychic is so beautiful.

 

[Karxrida]

I personally think that Focus Blast reliance should be taken into account for Mega Zam's ranking. You have to use it to beat Excadrill, (Mega) Tyranitar, Mega Gyarados, Bisharp, Ferrothorn (if you're not running HP Fire), and Kyurem-B (Psychic can't OHKO a -SpD one unless it's taken damage from Rocks and LO Recoil), and they all OHKO you back if you do miss. Trace is also inconsistent in the sense that you don't really have control over what you get the turn you MEvo while your opponent can switch out and screw you, and your pitiful bulk and lack of good resists means you have to come in after something dies or on a double switch later in the game if you're forced out then. Finding time to MEvo is also an issue since even resisted hits do a ton and running Protect to mitigate this costs you a coverage move like HP Fire/Ice or Taunt/Sub.

There's also the fact that some of the abilities you want come from Pokemon that screw you hard if you ever face them 1v1 (Want Technician? Have fun with Scizor!) or you can't Mega Evolve in front of without taking a ton of damage (Landorus, Greninja).

 

[Valmanway]

I don't really get the Trace arguments being brought up here when arguing against Mega Alakazam moving up. Does not getting a good ability suddenly make Mega Alakazam a burden to the team? When he doesn't get Sand Rush and Swift Swim against weather teams, sure, I'll give you that, but other than that, Mega Alakazam's ability doesn't particularly matter; his stats are what really do the talking for him. He can outrun base 130s with a Modest nature and is an amazing late game cleaner, so Trace seems more like a handy bonus than anything. Sure, I could have Sheer Force from Landorus, or Protean from Greninja, or maybe even Regenerator from Amoonguss. But you know what? That right there is just equipment stacked onto already impressive power. So who cares what ability you copy? As long as the ability you get isn't Truant, Defeatist, or Slow Start, abilities that you literally never see in competitive play, I just don't see the point in making Trace sound like a burden. Sure, Trace can be a reason for him to go up in the ranking, but in no way should it be used as an argument to bring him down, as it doesn't nerf his power if he gets a mediocre ability.

In any case, I fully support Mega Alakazam rising to A-.

 

[WideTomato]

Tbh conk isn't really even that bad. He doesn't die thanks to AV, and can act as a utility check to most mons in the tier that can't hit him super effectively. On top of that, he has a great base 140 attack and absorbs all status bar sleep and freeze cuz of Guts, and doesn't really gaf about para cuz he's so slow regardless (full para is a bitch tho).

He's also able to beat some would be checks with certain coverage moves. Jab 2HKOes Azu and clef, and the former can be crept to outright KO, while the latter can only 2HKO with Moonblast on the defensive set Unboosted. Talonflame and Pinsir are raped by stone edge, who would otherwise be able to switch in quite easily (ice punch 2hkoes Pinsir iirc and that's only when Megad). Drain Punch also allows conk to heal himself quite reliably which prevents him from being worn down like other utility checks such as AV. Azu. Mach Punh rounds everything out by bypassing his speed issues while still being quite powerful.

I think it's also worth mentioning that sand offense has trouble with him cuz TTar and Exca are beaten by him, and other members can be handled by teammates.

Of course, there's gonna be shit like Venu and Skarm who wall him no matter what, but that's why he should be in B and not in the A ranks. Random psychic and flying coverage meant to hit Venu and Hera hurt him quite a bit as well, but most non stab SE hits can only 2HKO anyways, and even that can be avoided with drain punch.

Conk should rise to B, but no higher. He's under selled quite a bit and is right at home on balance offense and bulky offense, and simply doesn't die. He absorbs status and won't go down without denting or KOing whatever he's facing, and fits right in with the B. Rank definition.

Conk to B pls

^ agree, but he can actually1v1 skarm and Mandy bc Roost is removing the flying type allowing him to hit them supereffectively.

 

[jbtc10]

Smeargle can go to C- or D for all I care--it's just not good anymore. Baton Pass teams would often rather use Scolipede as their designated passer, and all that's left for it is unpredictable niche sets that I suppose you can customize for your team, but playing with Smeargle often feels like 5 vs 6 because its stats are so crappy. There's no way this thing is better than most of the other stuff in C rank (though admittedly some of them do need to move up).

Smeargle is in fact a much better pokemon to design a pure Baton Pass team around than Scolipede, to the point where it's actually arguably the only pokemon that allows pure BP teams to be viable in the current OU environment. Geomancy + Cotton Guard is incredible, making it by far the most rapid and varied booster available, being able to get to +2/+2/+2/+3 in just two turns, and when behind screens with a Tailwind up (which is pretty trivial to achieve on dedicated BP teams) it's incredibly difficult to stop it from setting up those boosts and passing them to make a nearly unstoppable Espeon, who can now also chose to run other moves like Substitute instead of Calm Mind to make itself much harder to overcome and less prone to auto-losing to crits.

What makes it better than Scolipede is that it, firstly, has access to moves such as Taunt, Magic Coat and Ingrain which makes it much more reliable at getting off a useful pass without being stopped by shit like Phazers and Taunters which restrict Scolipede to just +2/+1, which simply isn't enough for a sweep against any competent team anymore (except maybe stall, but Espeon can usually beat stall by itself anyway, so being effective against balance and offense is much more important). Heatran (the most frequently used mon in the tier) gets a special mention for really annoying Scolipede and stopping it from being able to function as a good defense passer because the threat of Roar means you have to pass straight away or risk losing on the spot.

It then has much better and more boosting moves which also boost the special defense stat, meaning your recipient can't just be smashed by powerful special nukes like Landorus-I and Specs Keldeo as they receive the boosts, who render Scoli's Def boosts basically useless and simply threaten to outright O/2HKO. It also has only 1 weakness which generally gives the opponent less effective ways to deal with it.

Finally, there's also the fact that it can be used outside of BP for other decent miscellaneous purposes, such as in the role of a Sticky Web setter which, unlike Shuckle, can bugger something up with Spore to essentially allow you to start 5-5 with webs up instead of starting 5-6 like you often do with Shuckle, and even potentially troll things further with moves like Destiny Bond. The versatility is obviously key to it being a very usable mon.

So in short, I don't support moving Smeargle down right now, because C+ adequately describes how effective it is in the current meta (perhaps even underselling it a tad, I wouldn't fight a move to B- for instance) and it has pretty much taken the reigns from Scolipede, who is B+ (albeit for reasons other than just its passing set) as the premier Baton Pass strategy enabler, which is a force that can and does have the ability to square off against top tier teams, as shown by Deniss himself relatively recently and many others since.

C+ ---> C+/B-

 

[Firebird101]

Mega Alakazam's flaws doesn't lie in it's situational ability but rather in it's poor bulk, good-on-paper-but-not-as-good-in-practice sp attack, and it's vulnerability to priority attacks. Mega Zam absolutely has to hit first and ohko it's mons or it will most likely just faint. I admit I haven't had that much experience with it and I am a mediocre player but there are just so much better revenge killers you can use like Talonflame who would be only two ranks higher if Mega Zam were to move up to A-.

Mega Zam's targets are just much more limited than revenge killers with priority attacks and I find A- to be a bit too high for it. Especially when you consider the additional support it needs if it wants to pull of a sweep.

Mega Zam should stay at B+.

 

[Kyuzeth]

Mega Alakazam's flaws doesn't lie in it's situational ability but rather in it's poor bulk, good-on-paper-but-not-as-good-in-practice sp attack, and it's vulnerability to priority attacks. Mega Zam absolutely has to hit first and ohko it's mons or it will most likely just faint. I admit I haven't had that much experience with it and I am a mediocre player but there are just so much better revenge killers you can use like Talonflame who would be only two ranks higher if Mega Zam were to move up to A-.

Mega Zam's targets are just much more limited than revenge killers with priority attacks and I find A- to be a bit too high for it. Especially when you consider the additional support it needs if it wants to pull of a sweep.

Mega Zam should stay at B+.

Frailty didn't stop Greninja from becoming A+ Rank, nor did it deter Thundurus-I from being S-Rank. Besides, Mega Alakazam should be used as a sweeper and not a revenge killer; it doesn't need much support outside of a RK remover and can singlehandedly dismantle teams. It has the moves, the Speed and the power to break through teams. Don't look at it as a revenge killer, but as a sweeper, since that is what Mega Alakazam does best. If used as a revenge killer, though, keep in mind it's by far the fastest RKer without priority and can switch between its moves while being significantly powerful at the same time.

Greninja needs quite a reasonable amount of support to function as well, so that argument also goes out of the window.

Mega Alakazam should rise to A-.

 

[DoABarrelRoll]

In Mega Standards, 135 is pretty low. It isn't weak by any means, but it isn't a monster like Heracross, Gardevoir, or Char-Y. Plus, power alone isn't a great reason to keep something in C+. Blastoise was C+ because it was a spinnner that beat spinblockers the most reliably, but now Aegi is dead, so there's a lot less strain on Starmie. Starmie with a LO is only slightly weaker than Blastoise, but has a huge af niche; it's super fast. Starmie can defeat things without having to take a hit, so its lesser bulk isn't that notable. Plus, it has Recover and resists fighting + psychic, and has a viable all-out defensive set. I think using a mega as your spinner, when you'd rather use a spinner + a better mega that needs hazard support, like Pinsir/Charizard, is mainly why I don't like Toise at all.

The thing is that Mega Blastoise doesn't care about Knock Off and is not weak to Pursuit and Sucker Punch, which is huge in this metagame (although Pursuit is not nearly as popular as in the Deo era, it's still there). Starmie could potentially beat Aegislash with Analytic Hydro Pump if it felt like it. Also I think bulk is more important for a spinner (especially a Water-type) than speed, since resistances to Aqua Jet and Bullet Punch should be backed by some resillience, especially against stuff such as CB Azumarill. Yes, Starmie has Recover, but cannot fit it on an offensive set. Most fighting-type moves still 2HKO it thanks to its abysmal 60/85 bulk.

I'd also like to mention that Mega Blastoise is probably the best mega as a Baton Pass recipient thanks to its incredible coverage and enough power to abuse a Shell Smash boost, as well as good bulk and the ability to survive most priority moves thrown at it, even CB Talonflame's Brave Bird. Keep Mega Blastoise C+.

Frailty didn't stop Greninja from becoming A+ Rank, nor did it deter Thundurus-I from being S-Rank. Besides, Mega Alakazam should be used as a sweeper and not a revenge killer; it doesn't need much support outside of a RK remover and can singlehandedly dismantle teams. It has the moves, the Speed and the power to break through teams. Don't look at it as a revenge killer, but as a sweeper, since that is what Mega Alakazam does best. If used as a revenge killer, though, keep in mind it's by far the fastest RKer without priorityand can switch between its moves while being significantly powerful at the same time.

Greninja needs quite a reasonable amount of support to function as well, so that argument also goes out of the window.

Mega Alakazam should rise to A-.

Mega Zam has other problems... it's ridiculously weak to priority moves despite its buffed defense, hits weaker than LO Alakazam and if running Modest it fails to kill Keldeo, Lati@s, Terrakion and ScarfTar before going mega. I haven't used it much, though, so I don't know if it should rise.

 

[MrCookiepants]

Mega Zam has other problems... it's ridiculously weak to priority moves despite its buffed defense, hits weaker than LO Alakazam and if running Modest it fails to kill Keldeo, Lati@s, Terrakion and ScarfTar before going mega. I haven't used it much, though, so I don't know if it should rise.

Are you really going to potentially sack your Keldeo/Terrakion if it does turn out to be Timid MegaZam or Sash regular Zam? Nobody is going to risk that play.

This is the thing though. Nobody has used or seen MegaZam enough to know its potential at this stage. It took months for people to realize it was better than regular Zam and even now people are just running boring 4 attack variants. The Future Sight set sounds interesting, as you can limit the opponent's switch ins with the incoming nuke.

252+ SpA Mega Alakazam Future Sight vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Garchomp: 343-405 (96 - 113.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

[Kyuzeth]

Mega Zam has other problems... it's ridiculously weak to priority moves despite its buffed defense, hits weaker than LO Alakazam and if running Modest it fails to kill Keldeo, Lati@s, Terrakion and ScarfTar before going mega. I haven't used it much, though, so I don't know if it should rise.

Keldeo is ridiculously weak to Talonflame's Brave Bird. Terrakion is weak to Azumarill's Aqua Jet and Mega Scizor's Bullet Punch, while taking a large hit from Talonflame's Brave Bird. They're still respectively S and A+.

Alakazam is switched in on a Pokémon it can either set up on or outspeeds as Mega, of which there's plenty. Modest Mega Alakazam outspeeds Timid Landorus-I (against which it can Trace Sheer Force!) and Jolly/Naive non-Scarf Garchomp (Tracing Rough Skin punishes contact attackers). Any support Pokémon is potential Mega Evolution and/or set-up bait for Mega Alakazam, as it can more often than not Encore these Pokémon and either whittle them down or set up all over them. You're really underselling Mega Alakazam without realizing other, higher-up Pokémon have exactly the same flaws; these Pokémon may overall be better, but that doesn't take away Mega Alakazam is nonetheless a huge threat in the right hands. Once it has Mega Evolved, it can perform really well against offensive teams once revenge killers on the opposing field have been taken care of; there's not much other support it needs.

EDIT: Something I've been meaning to bring up is Thundurus and Landorus in the rankings. Seeing as this thread is partially for newer players to see which Pokémon are good to use, wouldn't it be better to note them as Thundurus-I and Landorus-I? Just a pet peeve of mine, I think it'd bring some more clarity to newer players to distinguish the Formes. Just my two cents.

 

[Gloating]

I don't really get the Trace arguments being brought up here when arguing against Mega Alakazam moving up. Does not getting a good ability suddenly make Mega Alakazam a burden to the team? When he doesn't get Sand Rush and Swift Swim against weather teams, sure, I'll give you that, but other than that, Mega Alakazam's ability doesn't particularly matter; his stats are what really do the talking for him. He can outrun base 130s with a Modest nature and is an amazing late game cleaner, so Trace seems more like a handy bonus than anything. Sure, I could have Sheer Force from Landorus, or Protean from Greninja, or maybe even Regenerator from Amoonguss. But you know what? That right there is just equipment stacked onto already impressive power. So who cares what ability you copy? As long as the ability you get isn't Truant, Defeatist, or Slow Start, abilities that you literally never see in competitive play, I just don't see the point in making Trace sound like a burden. Sure, Trace can be a reason for him to go up in the ranking, but in no way should it be used as a argument to bring him down, as it doesn't nerf his power if he gets a mediocre ability.

In any case, I fully support Mega Alakazam rising to A-.

I like the way this guy thinks. Trace being inconsistent is a flawed argument. Mega Alakazam's ability is just something that can come in handy in certain situations but it's not dependent on it to blow holes with it's huge special attack and speed. That being said idk if it should move up or not so I won't comment on that but Trace shouldn't be used as a con.

 

[Prinz]

Smeargle has just one niche in the current metagame: being one, if not the best Baton Pass user for Geomancy + Cotton Guard combo or in Smash Pass teams but that's it. The first is quite gimmicky TBH (sorry lord Denisss) and the latter is very uncommon. It's only other niche is to have Sticky Web in its moverpool, but from what I have seen on both ladder and tour games, Galvantula and Shuckle are more common for this role, being just better at doing this than Smeargle. C+ seems fine, if not C

 

[Celticpride]

Trace is meant to be a bonus whenever you use it. Take whatever you get and if it's useable great, if not too bad. The only way Trace would be inconsistent would if there was a chance you could accidentally Trace Defeatist, Stall, Traunt or Slow Start. Those abilities largely don't exist in OU, so you are most likely going to get something else. Now, there is a second set of abilities that are useful but not to Mega Zam. Huge Power, Tough Claws, Pixil/Aerial-ate, Skill Link and Gale Wings (probably forgetting some) fall into this category. Everything else can be useful depending on the set. Protean, Flash Fire, Multiscale, Sheer Force, Prankster, Sand Rush, Swift Swim, Mold Breaker, Intimidate, Poison Heal, No Guard, etc. You can grab something useful for a few turn and it would be a net positive, or you could grab something not useful but not negative and end up breaking even. There are very few situations where you will pick up something harmful that becomes a legit negative. Also, picking up something that is a net zero from an ability standpoint shouldn't affect viability, half the shit in Ubers runs Pressure with Telepathy, Unnerve or no ability as an alternative. They would all be S-Rank if they came down from Ubers regardless of their crap abilities.

 

[AsynchronousIO]

You know, alexwolf has convinced me of how good Mega Zam is. I'd always thought Trace would be situational and never bothered with it but Trace is pretty big on just revenging weather sweepers (sand everywhere, and a rise in rain), and trolling other things like Greninja and Lando-I is just the icing on the cake. Sure they need a little prior damage but even if they're not using LO it's not like they're gonna be unscathed with hazards and priority and sand and switching in. I might have to try it myself (I like Mega Hera/Zard X/Pinsir too much) but now that I think about it Mega Zam wouldn't be too out of place in A- considering that weather offenses are making a comeback. It's fast, strong, and cleans very well. It faces competition from things like Talonflame and Greninja, but Ninja wishes it were that fast and Talonflame needs choice items to be effective at revenge killing and dies easily.

 

[Jaroda]

Yeah, I don't understand these arguments for Trace being a detriment. MegaZam isn't reliant on its ability to be usable like say, Quagsire, where without Unaware it would sink down to NU. Plenty of OU pokemon have abilities that don't actively contribute to the pokemon's usage. Keldeo's Justified for example, effectively does nothing to benefit Keldeo. And then there are pokemon with abilities that only occasionally come into play, like getting a Defiant boost as Bisharp. But the lack of a reliable ability does not mean it hinders a pokemon's performance, it just doesn't always benefit from it. That's different from having Truant as Slaking, making it essentially unusable.

MegaZam's primary boon is it's speed. 150 is frankly as fast as it gets in OU (nobody counts Ninjask). And fortunately it got a comparable power boost to be a competent revenge killer. I don't know who suggested MegaZam is a sweeper, it just isn't. It can't take priority worth a damn, and something with really good SpD that MegaZam doesn't have SE move for (let's say Goodra), will easily sponge the move and KO back. If MegaZam had access to Nasty Plot then perhaps with Sub it could power through a team of 6 but MegaZam is not a sweeper. Trace comes into play as was mentioned in that when it comes to revenge killing, it's primary role, it actually lets it perform it's job better than other revenge killers by actually being able to revenge weather sweepers. This is something other mon of similar roles can't do, giving MegaZam a niche.

I think those arguments have convinced me of A- for MegaZam, defining its niche over other revenge killers. It's downsides are its horrible defenses, and reliance on iffy moves like Focus Blast and specific Hidden Powers, giving it 4MSS since it needs good coverage and really wants Sub/Taunt.

 

[WideTomato]

Starmie is probably the most overrated pokemon right now, even more so than Mew. It IS viable in OU, just outclassed. Maybe the "donphan syndrome" thing was a little too harsh, though. It's still C+ in my book. I'm done with starmie, it's getting old.



Smeargle should stay where it is... it can also pass a Geo boost with dual screen + Memento support and turn things such as Espeon or Mega Blastoise (heh) into total monsters.



Are you kidding me? Its special attack is underwhelming? Is 135 Special Attack plus Mega Launcher not enough for you? Blastoise also doesn't really need speed investment (maybe enough to outrun 164 Spe Azumarill if you're paranoic). Mega Blastoise should stay C+.

I agree with Crawdaunt though. It's a total monster, especially in rain teams. Choice Band Crabhammer in the rain eats orphans.

Also, I know it's the 43241st time I do this, but...

Weavile: B- -----> B+

Weavile is imo just as good as Pokemon such as Victini and Mega Alakazam. Fastest Knock Off user with STAB on it, fastest Pursuit user in OU (even faster than ScarfTar, pairs really well with Keldeo and Landorus (S-ranked mons), and can be really hard for offense to stop if their priority users are gone (especially Talonflame and Mega Scizor). It revenge kills Terrakion, Mew, Mamoswine, Lati@s, Gengar, that overrated water-type spinner, some Ferrothorn, Thundurus and Landorus with no problem.

Weawile does need some support, however it is still a great Mon, with a nice chunk of vailable moves that can help your team. Ice punch and knock off or obviously stables on any set, and the other two moveslots can be adjusted to support the team the best, I'll list the moves I find vailable, and why.

Ice shard: nice stab priority, faster than talonflames brave bird and mpinsirs quick attack.
Low kick: fighting type coverage, hits heavy targets and greninja hard.
Pursuit: allows it to trap tons of Pokemon
Fake out: breaks sashes and sturdy, allowing it to beat a lot of common Sr leads such as terrakion, garchomp, ttar and smeagle.

I think weawile deserves to move up ^^

EDIT pursuit does not allow it to trap a ton of Pokemon, but a nice chunk at least ^^

 

[Kurona]

So are the 'arguments about trace being inconsistent' comments going to stop anytime soon? They literally cover up the whole page; the point's been made, trace is a nice bonus, arguments about it's inconsistency are dumb.
Really though I thought Megazam's real problems were it's fraility, reliance on Focus Blast and a lack of good STAB. But maybe that's enough to get it to A-?

 

[Jaroda]

Psychic isn't a horrible STAB, and Psyshock is actually good for being able to hit physically. Focus Miss is an issue, so is 4MSS. You'll be hard pressed to find enough coverage and support moves on a single set.

 

[Firebird101]

Frailty didn't stop Greninja from becoming A+ Rank, nor did it deter Thundurus-I from being S-Rank. Besides, Mega Alakazam should be used as a sweeper and not a revenge killer; it doesn't need much support outside of a RK remover and can singlehandedly dismantle teams. It has the moves, the Speed and the power to break through teams. Don't look at it as a revenge killer, but as a sweeper, since that is what Mega Alakazam does best. If used as a revenge killer, though, keep in mind it's by far the fastest RKer without priority and can switch between its moves while being significantly powerful at the same time.

Greninja needs quite a reasonable amount of support to function as well, so that argument also goes out of the window.

Mega Alakazam should rise to A-.

Greninja and Thundurus have much better pros than Mega Zam with STAB on all of it's moves and prankster offensive support. Their frailty doesn't matter as much cause they are so easy to use and are already plenty powerful, can use items and Thundy even has nasty plot it can use to take down walls. But no one here thinks Mega Zam is a A+/S material so I'll drop the comparison.

The reason why I mentioned Mega Zam's special attack is better in theory than practice is because it can't increase it's power unless he traces a power-boosting ability like sheer force. It can't take full advantage of it's high special stats by holding life orb either since it's a Mega and like so many people have pointed out Life Orb Alakazam hits harder than it's mega form and that is kinda sad considering a whooping 40 extra stats went into it's special attack.

But more importantly, Mega Zam can't tank shit. Any bulky mon with the tiniest bit of offensive power can threaten to OHKO it, that is why it can't setup calm minds or risk using a non-damage move 95% of the time, cause the most effective answer is to hit it with any decent attack and it will probably faint. Not to mention with priority being ever so popular Mega Zam's speed just doesn't cut if it doesn't get any priority moves. At least offensive Deoxys-S could hold items and had better movepool than Zam.

Mega Zam can be extremely good in the hands of a good player and with the right support but to my understanding S and A rank pokemon are supposed to be the first pokemon to consider when building a team and Mega Zam is more or less just outclassed by better revenge killers and sweepers with it's best niche being punishing sand teams so I'm fairly unconvinced he deserves to be A rank.

 

[Kyuzeth]

Greninja and Thundurus have much better pros than Mega Zam with STAB on all of it's moves and prankster offensive support. Their frailty doesn't matter as much cause they are so easy to use and are already plenty powerful, can use items and Thundy even has nasty plot it can use to take down walls. But no one here thinks Mega Zam is a A+/S material so I'll drop the comparison.

Neither do I, since I'm stating Mega Alakazam to be worthy of A-. What even S-Rank Pokémon do have, however, are flaws. Thundurus-I is easily revenged, even while it can T-Wave opponents. Greninja is just as easily revenged; despite having a great Speed tier, both are, like Mega Alakazam, highly susceptible to being revenge killed. Don't fucking tell me that's not true.

The reason why I mentioned Mega Zam's special attack is better in theory than practice is because it can't increase it's power unless he traces a power-boosting ability like sheer force. It can't take full advantage of it's high special stats by holding life orb either since it's a Mega and like so many people have pointed out Life Orb Alakazam hits harder than it's mega form and that is kinda sad considering a whooping 40 extra stats went into it's special attack.

Sigh. I can't believe how many people still believe that bullshit statement... Yes, LO Alakazam hits harder than Mega, but only if they have the same natures. Regular Alakazam runs Timid, while Mega Alakazam runs Modest. 369 * 1.33... = 490, compared to Mega having 493 Special Attack with Modest. Mega Alakazam also has a far better Speed tier and doesn't find itself outsped by stuff like Greninja and Tornadus-T. If you make LO Alakazam out to be a powerful Pokémon while Mega Alakazam isn't, you're contradicting yourself.

But more importantly, Mega Zam can't tank shit. Any bulky mon with the tiniest bit of offensive power can threaten to OHKO it, that is why it can't setup calm minds or risk using a non-damage move 95% of the time, cause the most effective answer is to hit it with any decent attack and it will probably faint. Not to mention with priority being ever so popular Mega Zam's speed just doesn't cut if it doesn't get any priority moves. At least offensive Deoxys-S could hold items and had better movepool than Zam.

The issue with Mega Alakazam's frailty is easily solved by this little thing called teambuilding. Supporting Mega Alakazam isn't difficult at all, as it pairs well with Pokémon like Tyranitar and Amoonguss, both of which can handle priority (T-Tar takes care of Talonflame, while Amoonguss gets past Azumarill). Mega Alakazam usually doesn't use CM because of its frailty, but makes fantastic use of Taunt, since it can be Traced from Thundurus-I, which is Taunted and then can't T-Wave. The Speed is a big deal, as I've elaborated, as it allows Mega Alakazam to hit a highly important number that allows it to outpace +1 Mega Tyranitar, +1 Mega Gyarados, Greninja and Tornadus-T (I know the latter isn't as common, but it's better to outspeed it anyway).

Mega Zam can be extremely good in the hands of a good player and with the right support but to my understanding S and A rank pokemon are supposed to be the first pokemon to consider when building a team and Mega Zam is more or less just outclassed by better revenge killers and sweepers so I'm fairly unconvinced he deserves to be A rank.

That's why I'm vouching for it to move up to A- at most and not A. Talonflame is powerful and threatening, but overreliant on Choice Band to be powerful. Due to its iffy bulk, Swords Dance has a hard time setting up and Bulk Up variants, while having more luck with setting up, are still forced out by stuff like Tyranitar.

 

[Firebird101]

Neither do I, since I'm stating Mega Alakazam to be worthy of A-. What even S-Rank Pokémon do have, however, are flaws. Thundurus-I is easily revenged, even while it can T-Wave opponents. Greninja is just as easily revenged; despite having a great Speed tier, both are, like Mega Alakazam, highly susceptible to being revenge killed. Don't fucking tell me that's not true.

Please don't get too angry but Mega Zam is definitely easier to revenge kill than Thundy. Even if we take out priority t-wave Thundy resists bullet punch, mach punch (and vacuum wave, but haven't seen that in OU since Mega Lucario) and even Talon's brave bird and Mega Pinsir's quick attack and Azu is taking a great risk trying to aqua jet that thing. Greninja I give you isn't as hard to revenge kill but it still better bulk than Mega Zam (although slightly) Mega Zam just resists mach punch and more importantly stands no chance against a sucker puncher.

Sigh. I can't believe how many people still believe that bullshit statement... Yes, LO Alakazam hits harder than Mega, but only if they have the same natures. Regular Alakazam runs Timid, while Mega Alakazam runs Modest. 369 * 1.33... = 490, compared to Mega having 493 Special Attack with Modest. Mega Alakazam also has a far better Speed tier and doesn't find itself outsped by stuff like Greninja and Tornadus-T. If you make LO Alakazam out to be a powerful Pokémon while Mega Alakazam isn't, you're contradicting yourself.

You are right, I was grasping at straws here, but my point was to bring up that Mega Zam's attack stats aren't as great as they look like and bulky mons who can tank hits will most likely ohko it. At least Zam can hold focus sash *grumbles*.

The issue with Mega Alakazam's frailty is easily solved by this little thing called teambuilding. Supporting Mega Alakazam isn't difficult at all, as it pairs well with Pokémon like Tyranitar and Amoonguss, both of which can handle priority (T-Tar takes care of Talonflame, while Amoonguss gets past Azumarill). Mega Alakazam usually doesn't use CM because of its frailty, but makes fantastic use of Taunt, since it can be Traced from Thundurus-I, which is Taunted and then can't T-Wave. The Speed is a big deal, as I've elaborated, as it allows Mega Alakazam to hit a highly important number that allows it to outpace +1 Mega Tyranitar, +1 Mega Gyarados, Greninja and Tornadus-T (I know the latter isn't as common, but it's better to outspeed it anyway).

Now that is true, teambuilding helps it a lot but it still needs fair share of support which I find unacceptable for a A- rank. I mean, is it really worth using Mega Alakazam when you can run Mega Venusaur instead of Amoonguss? The only real niche I see from Mega Zam is to trace a handsome ability and abuse it like against weather teams but that doesn't make it a A- rank material. And Thundy forces 50/50 against Zam since it can also just attack instead of risking being taunted. (I'm starting to think I am already gathering hundurus pro-ban arguments xD) Now, being able to outspeed dragon dancers at 1+ is really impressive, no denying that, sadly Focus Miss is a move who loves to be inaccurate at the most inappropriate moments and it is another annoying having to rely on poor accuracy for coverage so Mega Zam should not be the first choice when wanting to revenge kill them if it can't do it reliably.

That's why I'm vouching for it to move up to A- at most and not A. Talonflame is powerful and threatening, but overreliant on Choice Band to be powerful. Due to its iffy bulk, Swords Dance has a hard time setting up and Bulk Up variants, while having more luck with setting up, are still forced out by stuff like Tyranitar.

Sorry, I should have been more clear but I was more thinking A rank as a whole as I think there should be a greater gap between the ranks than the ranks... within the ranks. And Talonflame can still predict the Tyranitar switching and just u-turn out and wear it down. Tyranitar can only check the Talonflame already locked into it's STAB attacks.

 

[Nozizaki]

So, much to my dismay, this bad boy

remains OU by usage, despite being largely outclassed as both a wall and cleric.

That said, it's not even ranked as far as viability is concerned. To be honest, I'm not sure where to put it, but I think C/C- might be a good start.

 

[I AM THE JAMAICAN BOBSLED TEAM]

So, much to my dismay, this bad boy

remains OU by usage, despite being largely outclassed as both a wall and cleric.

That said, it's not even ranked as far as viability is concerned. To be honest, I'm not sure where to put it, but I think C/C- might be a good start.

its dropping monday