Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V3) (Rank changes are over until ORAS)

[Zebstrika]

Why are the rank changes over when a good chunk of that list came with no warning? We never had any warning to prevent the rank change and apparently now we can't argue to put them back?

Ampharos is the one that annoys me the most; I can't even counter argue anything about its drop because no one put any argument why it dropped in the first place. I guess after I looked 6 pages back, it was in your list to discuss but with "idk why you'd want to dedicace your mega slot to it tbh", which is obviously a bullshit reason to drop a mega. And it was the only negative thing anyone said about ampharos since then.

 

[Aragorn the King]

Why are the rank changes over when a good chunk of that list came with no warning? We never had any warning to prevent the rank change and apparently now we can't argue to put them back?

Ampharos is the one that annoys me the most; I can't even counter argue anything about its drop because no one put any argument why it dropped in the first place. I guess after I looked 6 pages back, it was in your list to discuss but with "idk why you'd want to dedicace your mega slot to it tbh", which is obviously a bullshit reason to drop a mega. And it was the only negative thing anyone said about ampharos since then.

I concur; some reasoning would be nice for the drop of Ampharos. I made this post last week, which for the record had 17 likes and generated 0 counter-arguments. The original reasoning for its drop was that "idk why you'd use if over other megas," which is a pretty weak argument. I know this isn't a democracy or anything, and that in the end only your 5's opinions actually matter, but some justification would be cool, at least for the "upsets".

Also just to let you know Quagsire was supposed to be moved up, but hasn't yet in the OP.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

alexwolf did say that you could ask someone on the ranking team for the reasoning of the drops.

Anyways imo we've pretty much gotten to a point where the XY OU metagame has pretty much settled and this viability list imo is pretty much an accurate depiction of the viability of all viable Pokemon in XY OU. Plus ORAS will officially be released in almost three weeks so there really isn't much to discuss anymore. Other than maybe the above I see basically nothing wrong with this list now.

 

[alexwolf]

Why are the rank changes over when a good chunk of that list came with no warning? We never had any warning to prevent the rank change and apparently now we can't argue to put them back?

Ampharos is the one that annoys me the most; I can't even counter argue anything about its drop because no one put any argument why it dropped in the first place. I guess after I looked 6 pages back, it was in your list to discuss but with "idk why you'd want to dedicace your mega slot to it tbh", which is obviously a bullshit reason to drop a mega. And it was the only negative thing anyone said about ampharos since then.

All of those changes have been discussed, and while the majority might not agree with all of them, they certainly weren't out of the blue. Also, nothing is final, the new thread will be up in a few days or weeks and new changes are going to be all over the place, so you certainly can argue to raise or drop anything you see fit.

 

[Thunderorange]

Update time:

Zapdos: B- ---> B
Quagsire: B- ---> B
Sableye: B- ---> C+
Froslass: C- ---> C
Staraptor: B ---> B-
Zygarde: D ---> C-
Mega Heracross: A+ ---> A
Garchomp: Stays in A+
Conkeldurr: C+ ---> B-
Kingdra: B ---> B+
Rhyperior: B ---> B+
Tentacruel: D ---> C
Ampharos Mega: B- ---> C+
Blissey: D ---> C-

Most of those have already been explained and discussed, so any controversial ones came down to voting, such as Mega Heracross for example. Feel free to ask the ranking team for any of the controversial changes though.

And that's it guys, we are done with this viability ranking thread. I will open a new one when ORAS is officially released, and until then, use this thread to talk about anything ranking related you may want, just keep in mind to keep the discussion light because no more changes will take place.

Why wasn't terrakion raised? I gave some fair reasons for his raise which were agreed to by a couple of people and no one counter arguemented it. He is very versatile and all his sets are effective and worth using. Please explain.

 

[Zebstrika]

All of those changes have been discussed, and while the majority might not agree with all of them, they certainly weren't out of the blue. Also, nothing is final, the new thread will be up in a few days or weeks and new changes are going to be all over the place, so you certainly can argue to raise or drop anything you see fit.

can we get an explanation about the ones that weren't discussed as much? I saw Ampharos had 2 posts on it like a week back, but they were both positive so it doesn't explain why it would have dropped.

Quagsire also didn't get discussion, I don't really oppose the bump up but I want to know what changed for it

 

[alexwolf]

can we get an explanation about the ones that weren't discussed as much? I saw Ampharos had 2 posts on it like a week back, but they were both positive so it doesn't explain why it would have dropped.

Quagsire also didn't get discussion, I don't really oppose the bump up but I want to know what changed for it

I made a post explaining why Quagsire deserves to go up somewhere in the last few pages, but in a nutshell it rose because it deals with many important threats, such as Mega Manectric, Bisharp, Hawlucha, Mega Zard X, Magnezone, SD Garchomp, SD Mega Scizor, and more. Idk about Mega Ampharos as i wanted it to stay in B-, but you can ask the rest of the team.

Thunderorange Terrakion wasn't raised because it's not as good as the rest of the A+ Pokemon. Basically, it has tons of weaknesses, including to two kind of priority moves, hates the prevalence of Scarf Landorus-T, and is not extremely hard to check, though it is a deadly wallbreaker.

 

[MilkyWay]

I don't understand how Garchomp is more viable than Mega Heracross. Sure, the two do completely different things, but but at the end of the day Mega Heracross is the better pokemon and at worst should be in the same rank as Garchomp. Garchomp faces immense competition in all of its sets, and in my opinion, none of its sets are all that great. Its scarf set is outdone by Landorus-T, lead sets are (arguably) done better by Mamoswone and Terrakion, and the SD wall breaker faces a ton of competition from most megas. That and the fact that both of its STABs, while good, suffer from having plenty of immunities. Most teams have at least two ground immunities and usually one dragon immunity. All of these reasons are why Garchomp belongs in A rank, and most certainly not above Mega Heracross. Mega Heracross, like Garchomp, faces competitjon too. However, of the mega wall breakers, Mega Heracross is generally accepted to be the best (also just realized, wtf is Mega Gardevoire doing in A+???? Mega Cham and Mega Heracross are better than this...not gonna get into that right now though) in its role, unlike Garchomp who isnt really the best at any of its roles. Mega Heracross has good coverage and high base power moves that can go through subs and can often land a timely crit. Its middling speed isnt really much worse than Garchomp's (or any of the other mega wall breakers) due to the lack or notable threats inbetween them. On another topic, Garchomp and Azumarill being in the same rank is even more of a crime than Garchomp being above Mega Heracross. Again, the two dont really compete for a team slot, but Azumarill is a much better pokemon all around and shouldnt be in the same rank as Garchomp for the reasons already stated.

tl;dr Mega Heracross shouldnt be a rank lower than Garchomp, Garchomp shouldnt be in the same rank as Azumarill, and Mega Gardevoire shouldnt be above Mega Medicham or (especially) Mega Heracross. At the absolute worst, Nega Heracross is in the same rank as Garchomp and Mega Gardevoire. It is nothing short of a crime for Mega Heracross to be a sub rank below. Maybe stall teams adopted to it slightly, but stall teams arent even that common to befin with in a metagame filled with offense and that still doesnt change the fact that Mega Heracross is better than some of the A+ poke on.

 

[Karxrida]

I still don't understand why Charizard Y is higher than Mega Gardevoir and Mega Heracross. I've said it before and I'll say it again; its checks are much more common than theirs (for example, all the S Ranks can check Zard Y while none of them check Mega Gardevoir or Sub Mega Heracross) while it needs much more support with Defog and a Pursuit trapper to function with about the same amount of wall-breakage. There's no denying it's a good 'mon, I just think it should be the same rank or a rank lower than the other 2.

 

[Rosen]

I still don't understand why Charizard Y is higher than Mega Gardevoir and Mega Heracross. I've said it before and I'll say it again; its checks are much more common than theirs (for example, all the S Ranks can check Zard Y while none of them check Mega Gardevoir or Sub Mega Heracross) while it needs much more support with Defog and a Pursuit trapper to function with about the same amount of wall-breakage. There's no denying it's a good 'mon, I just think it should be the same rank or a rank lower than the other 2.

Same rank as gardevoir fren

 

[Karxrida]

Same rank as gardevoir fren

Totally derped there, but I still think it should go down. It's still much easier to deal with when its best checks/counters are top-tier mons like Latias, Latios, and Tyranitar. The stuff that deals with Mega Gardevoir and Mega Heracross are much more niche (but still viable) things like Doublade (both) or Cresselia (Gardevoir only for obvious reasons). Needing more support compared to them is also something that needs to be accounted for, since more viable Pokemon don't (or at least shouldn't) need more support than less viable ones for similar results.

 

[Alfalfa]

Garchomp: Stays in A+

I have not seen any decent reasoning behind Garchomp for A+, most of the time I feel like I want to use something else. Can you please explain why it stays in A+? The only set worth using imo is Swords Dance, all of the other sets I fail to see justified over other Pokemon.

aka please explain your changes alexwolf

 

[theV8man]

Totally derped there, but I still think it should go down. It's still much easier to deal with when its best checks/counters are top-tier mons like Latias, Latios, and Tyranitar. The stuff that deals with Mega Gardevoir and Mega Heracross are much more niche (but still viable) things like Doublade (both) or Cresselia (Gardevoir only for obvious reasons). Needing more support compared to them is also something that needs to be accounted for, since more viable Pokemon don't (or at least shouldn't) need more support than less viable ones for similar results.

I've never ever understood how Char-Y could be ranked the same or higher as the likes of Mega Cham/Hera when its checked by so many common Pokemon, needs more support, and is walled by the most prevalent special walls out there. It's main advantage is a spammable move (which isn't that spammable when I run Stone Edge Heatran) while the other Megas have more useful advantages like moves that bypass subs/sashes and priority.

 

[Richie BITG]

See you guys on the flip side!

I have not seen any decent reasoning behind Garchomp for A+, most of the time I feel like I want to use something else. Can you please explain why it stays in A+? The only set worth using imo is Swords Dance, all of the other sets I fail to see justified over other Pokemon.

aka please explain your changes alexwolf

I honestly don't know why, but I'm guessing that it is A rank material but if it did go to A rank, it would outclass nearly everything there (besides like 2 things)
Don't know why its A+, either though.

 

[mertyville]

if rank changes are over until oras, why isn't this thread locked until the games are out? Is it really worth to even bother nominating something or bother discussing?

 

[QuickBH]

if rank changes are over until oras, why isn't this thread locked until the games are out? Is it really worth to even bother nominating something or bother discussing?

Most of us have nothing better to do with our lives anyways, might as well keep it unlocked.

 

[Gloating]

This is the viability ranking for XY OU not ORAS lol. Just copy and paste when the new thread is up.

 

[alexwolf]

Locking this because as it seems it's pointless to leave it open in limbo. New thread will be up in a few days, as soon as the ranking team comes up with a proper rank placement for the new MEvos.