LC Deino

[Water Drone]

QC Checks: Hawkstar / Rowan / macle

Final QC Check: zeriloa

GP Checks: fleurdyleurse / horyzhnz

Overview
########

Deino isn't the best to use competitive-wise. It has decent bulk with a unique typing, but the introduction of Fairy-types hurts its usefulness. It also has a decent Attack stat, but a poor Speed stat, which forces it to run a Choice Scarf. The only reason to use Deino is Hustle, but it is quite unreliable. With its small niche in Little Cup, Deino just barely manages to be useful on teams as a revenge killer and a late-game cleaner.

Choice Scarf
########
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Outrage
move 2: Crunch
move 3: Superpower
move 4: Zen Headbutt
ability: Hustle
item: Choice Scarf
evs: 20 HP / 236 Atk / 36 Def / 212 Spe
nature: Jolly

Moves
========

STAB Outrage has insane power with Hustle, but is somewhat unfavorable to be locked into due to Fairy-types. Crunch is the reliable secondary STAB move of choice, with good coverage. Superpower provides coverage on Steel- and Rock-types. Lastly, Zen Headbutt is for coverage on Poison-types such as Trubbish and Fighting-types such as Mienfoo.

Set Details
========

The EV spread used maximizes Speed and Attack, its two most prominent stats, while the rest is put in HP and Defense to boost Deino's bulk. A Jolly nature is used to maximize Speed so that Deino can outspeed most of the tier with a Choice Scarf. Lastly, Hustle gives Deino its niche, and is the only ability to consider using.

Usage Tips
========

Use Deino as a late-game cleaner or a revenge killer, as that is all it is capable of. Before trying to clean late-game, make sure all Pokemon with Sturdy aren't at full HP. Entry hazards aid tremendously in this case.

Team Options
========

Poison-types such as Foongus, Trubbish, and Croagunk are good teammates, as they resist Fairy-type moves and can pick off Fighting-types for Deino. Additionally, Trubbish also makes a good teammate as it can lay Spikes for Deino to have an easier time cleaning. Finally, Ghost-types make good teammates as they are immune to Fighting-type moves. Honedge and Gastly stand out, as they also resist Fairy.

Other Options
########

Deino can use Fire Fang and Ice Fang to hit Cottonee, but outside of that, those moves have little use. A bulky Eviolite set can be used with Thunder Wave and Dragon Tail, but other Eviolite users such as Lickitung generally work better. Lastly, a Rest and Sleep Talk set with Dragon Tail can be used, but isn't recommended.

Checks & Counters
########

**Fairy-types**: Snubbull, Cottonee, and Spritzee can all take a hit and KO with either Play Rough, Dazzling Gleam, or Moonblast, respectively. They can all come in on a Choice-locked Outrage and finish Deino off.

**Fighting-types**: Mienfoo, Timburr, and Scraggy are all really good Pokemon that deal with Deino. Scarf Mienfoo beats and outspeeds it, Timburr can tank a hit and use Drain Punch or Mach Punch if it's weakened, and Scraggy can tank a hit, set up, and Drain Punch, or just use Drain Punch.

**Physical Walls**: Physical walls such as Spritzee and Hippopotas can easily take any hit and retaliate with their respective STAB moves. They can also recover any health they lost in the process with their recovery moves.

**Status**: Deino is especially weak to status, as burns halve its Attack, paralysis slows it down, and poison whittles its health down and limits its switch-ins.

 

[Water Drone]

I think this is QC ready now!

 

[Celestavian]

Remove the mention of a special attacking set from OO. Dratini is much better at this thanks to it's higher Speed and vastly better special movepool. Deino should stick to Hustle.

QC 1/3

 

[Rowan]

idk why you need wish support for deino, remove that

ghosts aren't great mons for switching into fighting types tbh cos of knock off. poison and fairies and bugs and fires are. mention something to take care of timburr and croagunk cos they have Super effective prio, foongus and spritzee do this for timburr, drilbur, ponyta do this nicely for gunk

otherwise this is fine 2/3

 

[macle]

3/3

 

[zeriloa]

looks fine, move to gp

 

[bb skarm]

AM Check

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Overview
########

Deino is a cool pokemon Pokemon on its own, but it isn't the best competitive-wise. It has decent bulk with a unique typing, but the introduction of the Fairy-type hurts its usefulness. It also Deino has a decent Attack stat, but a is held back by its poor speed. This forces it to run it's only one set, Choice Scarf. The only reason to use Deino is Hustle, but it which is quite unreliable. With it's a small niche in LC Little Cup, Deino just barely manages to be useful on teams as a revenge killer and a late-game cleaner.

Choice Scarf
########
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Outrage
move 2: Crunch
move 3: Superpower
move 4: Zen Headbutt
ability: Hustle
item: Choice Scarf
evs: 20 HP / 236 Atk / 36 Def / 212 Spe
nature: Jolly

Moves
========

There are a strict set of moves that Deino can utilize. Outrage has insane power after STAB and Hustle, but is somewhat unreliable due to Fairy-types (add dash) being able to switch in. Crunch is the reliable secondary STAB move of choice, with and has good coverage. Superpower is a strong move as well as providing coverage on for Steel and Rock types. Lastly, Zen Headbutt is for another move choice and provides coverage on for Poison-types (add dash) such as Trubbish, and Fighting-types (add dash) such as Mienfoo.

Set Details
========

The EV spread used is to max Speed and Attack, itDeino's two most prominent stats for the set, while the rest just gets put into bulk. A Jolly nature is used to maximize Speed so he Deino can outspeed most of the tier with the Choice Scarf. Lastly, Hustle gives Deino it's its niche (how?), and is the only ability to consider.

Usage Tips
========

Use Deino as a late-game cleaner or as a revenge killer, since that is all it is capable of. Before trying to clean late-game, make sure all pokemon Pokemon with Sturdy will have it broken are weakened so Sturdy does not activate. Hazards aid tremendously in this case. Deino is weak to some common types, so play safe and be wary of switches. (most players are expected to know this)

Team Options
========

Deino really needs a lot of support in the team options department. Poison-types (add dash) such as Foongus and Croagunk are good teammates, such as Foongus and Croagunk, as they resist Fairy and can pick them off with ease. Trubbish also makes for a good teammate as it can deal with Fighting-types (add dash) well, and can lay spikes for Deino to have an easier time picking pokemon off. Timburr and Croagunk are big threats with their super effective priority, so pokemon Pokemon to handle them aid Deino that can counter these two are good partners. Foongus and Spritzee take care of Timburr well, while Drilbur and Ponyta can do this nicely the same for Croagunk. Finally, Ghost-types (add dash) make good teammates as they are immune to Fighting-types (add dash). Honedge and Gastly stand out as teammates, as they also resist Fairy types. They must watch out for Knock Off, however.

Other Options
########

As far as other options go, Deino has very few. It can use Fire Fang and Ice Fang to hit Cottonee, but outside of hitting Cottonee they have little use. A bulky Eviolite set can be used with Thunder Wave and Dragon Tail, but other Eviolite users such as Lickitung generally work do this better. Lastly, a Rest and Sleep Talk RestTalk set with Dragon Tail can be used, but isn't recommened recommended (why?).

Checks & Counters
########

**Fairy types**: Snubbull, Cottonee, and Spritzee can all take a hit and KO with either Play Rough, Dazzling Gleam, or Moonblast respectively. They can all come in on a Choice-Locked Outrage and finish it Deino off.

**Fighting types**: Mienfoo, Timburr, and Scraggy are all really good ways to deal with Deino. Scarf Mienfoo beats it Deino by outspeeding it, Timburr can tank a hit and Drain Punch or Mach Punch if its weakened, and Scraggy can tank a hit, set up, and use Drain Punch, or just Drain Punch.

**Physical Walls**: Physical walls like such as Spritzee and Hippopotas can easily take any hit and hit with their respective STAB moves. They can also recover any health they lost in the process with their recovery moves.

**Status**: Deino is especially weak to Status, as Burns cripple halves its attack, Paralysis slows it down too much, and Poison whittles it down and limits its switch-ins.

it's = it is

its = possession

Pokemon is capitalized.

Whenever you are talking about a type, use a dash between the type and the word type i.e. fighting-types and ghost-types

 

[fleurdyleurse]

hi

check

Overview
########

Deino is a cool puseful Pokemon on its own, but it isn't the best competitive-wise. It has decent bulk with a unique typing, but the introduction of Fairy-types hurts its usefulness. It also has a decent Attack stat, but a poor sSpeed stat. This forces it to run it's only set,a Choice Scarf. The only reason to use Deino is Hustle, but itHustle is quite unreliable. With it's small niche in LC, Deino just barely manages to be useful on teams as a revenge killer and a late-game cleaner.

Choice Scarf
########
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Outrage
move 2: Crunch
move 3: Superpower
move 4: Zen Headbutt
ability: Hustle
item: Choice Scarf
evs: 20 HP / 236 Atk / 36 Def / 212 Spe
nature: Jolly

Moves
========

There areis a strict set of moves that Deino can utilize. Outrage has insane power after STAB and Hustle, but is somewhat unreliable due to Fairy -types. Crunch is the reliable secondary STAB move of choice, with good coverage. Superpower is a strong move, as well asnd providinges coverage on Steel- and Rock -types. Lastly, Zen Headbutt is for another move choice, and coverage on Poison -types such as Trubbish, and Fighting -types such as Mienfoo.

Set Details
========

The EV spread used is to maximize Speed and Attack, its two most prominent stats for the set, while the rest just gets puis put into HP and Defense to boost Deinto's bulk. A Jolly nature is used to maximize Speed so hethat it can outspeed most of the tier with the Choice Scarf. Lastly, Hustle gives Deino it's niche, and is the only ability to consider.

Usage Tips
========

Use Deino as a late-game cleaner or as a revenge killer, asince that is all it is capable of. Before trying to clean late-game, make sure all pokemon with Sturdy will have it broken. Hazards aid tremendously in this case. Deino is weak to some common types, so play safe and be wary of switches.

Team Options
========

Deino really needs a lot of support in the team options department. Poison -types are good teammates, such as Foongus and Croagunk, are good teammates, as they resist Fairy-type moves and can pick them off with ease. Trubbish also makes a good teammate as it can deal with Fighting -types well, and can lay sSpikes for Deino to have an easier time picking pPokemon off. Timburr and Croagunk are big threats with their super effective priority, so pPokemon to handle them aid Deino. Foongus and Spritzee take care of Timburr well, while Drilbur and Ponyta do this nicely for Croagunk. Finally, Ghost -types make good teammates as they are immune to Fighting -types. Honedge and Gastly stand out, as they also resist Fairy types. They must watch out for Knock Off, however.

Other Options
########

As far as other options go, Deino has very few of them. It can use Fire Fang and Ice Fang to hit Cottonee, but outside of Cottonee, theyose moves have little use. A bulky Eviolite set can be used with Thunder Wave and Dragon Tail, but other Eviolite users such as Lickitung generally work better. Lastly, a Rest and Sleep Talk set with Dragon Tail can be used, but isn't recommended.

Checks & Counters
########

**Fairy types**: Snubbull, Cottonee, and Spritzee can all take a hit and KO with either Play Rough, Dazzling Gleam, or Moonblast respectively. They can all come in on a Choice-Llocked Outrage and finish it off.

**Fighting types**: Mienfoo, Timburr, and Scraggy are all really good ways to deal with Deino. Scarf Mienfoo beats it byand outspeedings it, Timburr can tank a hit and Drain Punch or Mach Punch if it's weakened, and Scraggy can tank a hit, set up, and Drain Punch, or just use Drain Punch.

**Physical Walls**: Physical walls likesuch as Spritzee and Hippopotas can easily take any hit and hitretaliate with their respective STAB moves. They can also recover any health they lost in the process with their recovery moves.

**Status**: Deino is especially weak to Sstatus, as Bburns cripple its aAttack, Pparalysis slows it down too much, and Ppoison whittles its health down and limits its switch-ins.

gp 1/2
good work!

 

[Water Drone]

Thanks fleurdyleurse, implemented! Ready for check #2

 

[tehy]

Amcheck

Many comments many soon.

Fighting-types might be good revengers but not good answers at all. Scarfers cant take a hit and bulkies cant take 2. And what about steels, why no mention in counters?

Team options real weird with the poisons. Where larvesta at?

Zen headbutt seema like it licks ass. If you want to hit a fighter hard without getting locked in, i guess? Fire fang at least hits cottonee which walls your ass otherwise.

Qc asleep at the wheel imo. Why the hell did it take gp for any of this to get caught?

comments

Comments:

On its own, wut. Also, i feel like its time to stop referencing newness of gen6 stuff, js.

We can tell its got few moves it can use because no slashes or move mentions

Foongus cant hurt fairy types that much, and trubbish can, croagunk also beats fightings.

Again, no need for a lead sentence about lack of options. And wouldnt the restalk and eviolite sets be close as hell anyhow? I feel like you coul just say an evio set with restalk, or possibly with it.

Fairy type stab is much shorter and better.

Poison isnt very bad for deino as far as i can tell. Its rk and clean, its not staying in long even with outrage lock.

Fighting types are neutral to deinos strongest move, and weak to a coverage move. Not a great way to deal with it.

amcheck

Overview
########

Deino is a cool -looking Pokemon on its own, but it isn't the best competitive-wise. It has decent bulk with a unique typing, but the introduction of Fairy-types hurts its usefulness. It also has a decent Attack stat, but a poor Speed stat. This forces it to run a Choice Scarf. The only reason to use Deino is Hustle, but Hustle is quite unreliable. With it's small niche in LIttle Cup, Deino just barely manages to be useful on teams as a revenge killer and a late-game cleaner.

Choice Scarf
########
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Outrage
move 2: Crunch
move 3: Superpower
move 4: Zen Headbutt
ability: Hustle
item: Choice Scarf
evs: 20 HP / 236 Atk / 36 Def / 212 Spe
nature: Jolly

Moves
========

There is a strict set of moves that Deino can utilize. Outrage has insane power after STAB and Hustle, but is somewhat unreliable due to Fairy-types. Crunch is the reliable secondary STAB move of choice, with good coverage. Superpower is a strong move, and provides coverage on Steel- and Rock-types. Lastly, Zen Headbutt is for another move choice, and coverage on Poison-types such as Trubbish, and Fighting-types such as Mienfoo.

Set Details
========

The EV spread used is to maximizes Speed and Attack, its two most prominent stats for the set, while the rest is put into HP and Defense to boost Deino's bulk. A Jolly nature is used to maximize Speed so that it can outspeed most of the tier with the Choice Scarf. Lastly, Hustle gives Deino it's niche, and is the only ability to consider.

Usage Tips
========

Use Deino as a late-game cleaner or as a revenge killer, as that is all it is capable of. Before trying to clean late-game, make sure all pokemon with Sturdy will have it broken. H; hazards aid tremendously in this case. Deino is weak to some common types, so play safe and be wary of switches.


Team Options
========

Deino really needs a lot of support. Poison-types such as FoongusTrubbish and Croagunk, are good teammates, as they resist Fairy-type moves and can pick them off with ease. Trubbish also makes a good teammate as it, and can deal with Fighting-types well, and ca. Trubbish can even lay Spikes for Deino to have an easier time picking Pokemon off. Timburr and Croagunk are big threats with their super effective priority, so Pokemon to handle them aid Deino. Foongus and Spritzee take care of Timburr well, while Drilbur and Ponyta do this nicely for Croagunk. Finally, Ghost-types make good teammates as they are immune to Fighting-type moves, though they must watch out for Knock Off. Honedge and Gastly stand out, as they also resistake on Fairy -types. They must watch out for Knock Off, however.

Other Options
########

As far as other options go, Deino has very few of them. It can use Fire Fang and Ice Fang to hit Cottonee, but outside of Cothatonee, those moves have little use. A bulky Eviolite set can be used with Thunder Wave and Dragon Tail, but other Eviolite users such as Lickitung generally work better. Lastly, a Rest and Sleep Talk set with Dragon Tail can be used, but isn't recommended.

Checks & Counters
########

**Fairy types**: Snubbull, Cottonee, and Spritzee can all take a hit and KO with either Play Rough, Dazzling Gleam, or Moonblast respectivelyFairy-type STAB. They can all come in on a choice-locked Outrage and finish it off.

**Fighting types**: Scarf Mienfoo, Timburr, and Scraggy are all really good ways to deal with Deino. Scarf Mienfoo beat OHKOs and outspeeds itDeino, Timburr can tank a hit and Drain Punch, or Mach Punch if it's weakened, and Scraggy can tank a hit, set up, and Drain Punch, or just use Drain Punch.

**Physical Walls**: Physical walls such as Spritzee and Hippopotas can easily take any hit and retaliate with their respective STAB moves. They can also recover any health they lost in the process with their recovery moves.

**Status**: Deino is especially weak to status, as burns cripple its Attack, while paralysis slows it down, and poison whittles its health down and limits its switch-ins.

 

[horyzhnz]

check

Overview
########

Deino is a cool looking Pokemon on its own, but it isn't the best to use competitive-wise. It has decent bulk with a unique typing, but the introduction of Fairy-types hurts its usefulness. It also has a decent Attack stat, but a poor Speed stat,(AC) which This forces it to run a Choice Scarf. The only reason to use Deino is Hustle, but Hustle it is quite unreliable. With it's its small niche in Little Cup, Deino just barely manages to be useful on teams as a revenge killer and a late-game cleaner.

Choice Scarf
########
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Outrage
move 2: Crunch
move 3: Superpower
move 4: Zen Headbutt
ability: Hustle
item: Choice Scarf
evs: 20 HP / 236 Atk / 36 Def / 212 Spe
nature: Jolly

Moves
========

There is a strict set of moves that Deino can utilize. STAB Outrage has insane power after STAB and with Hustle, but is somewhat unreliable unfavorable to locked into due to Fairy-types. Crunch is the reliable secondary STAB move of choice, with good coverage. Superpower is a strong move, and provides coverage on Steel- and Rock-types. Lastly, Zen Headbutt is for another move choice, and coverage on Poison-types such as Trubbish,(RC) and Fighting-types such as Mienfoo.

Set Details
========

The EV spread used is to maximizes Speed and Attack, its two most prominent stats for the set, while the rest is put into HP and Defense to boost Deino's bulk. A Jolly nature is used to maximize Speed so that it Deino can outspeed most of the tier with the a Choice Scarf. Lastly, Hustle gives Deino it's its niche, and is the only ability to consider using.

Usage Tips
========

Use Deino as a late-game cleaner or as a revenge killer, as that is all it is capable of. Before trying to clean late-game, make sure all Pokemon with Sturdy will have it broken aren't at full HP. Entry hazards aid tremendously in this case. Deino is weak to some common types, so play safe and be wary of switches.

Team Options
========

Deino really needs a lot of support. Poison-types such as Foongus and Croagunk,(RC) are good teammates, as they resist Fairy-type moves and can pick them Fairy-types off with ease. Trubbish also makes a good teammate as it can deal with Fighting-types well, and can lay Spikes for Deino to have an easier time picking Pokemon off cleaning. Timburr and Croagunk are big threats with their super effective priority, so Pokemon to handle them aid Deino. Foongus and Spritzee take care of Timburr well, while Drilbur and Ponyta do this nicely for Croagunk. Finally, Ghost-types make good teammates as they are immune to Fighting-types moves. Honedge and Gastly stand out, as they also resist Fairy types. They must watch out for Knock Off, however.

Other Options
########

As far as other options go, Deino has very few of them. It can use Fire Fang and Ice Fang to hit Cottonee, but outside of Cottonee that, those moves have little use. A bulky Eviolite set can be used with Thunder Wave and Dragon Tail, but other Eviolite users such as Lickitung generally work better. Lastly, a Rest and Sleep Talk set with Dragon Tail can be used, but isn't recommended.

Checks & Counters
########

**Fairy-types**: Snubbull, Cottonee, and Spritzee can all take a hit and KO with either Play Rough, Dazzling Gleam, or Moonblast,(AC) respectively. They can all come in on a Choice-locked Outrage and finish it Deino off.

**Fighting-types**: Mienfoo, Timburr, and Scraggy are all really good ways to Pokemon that deal with Deino. Scarf Mienfoo beats and outspeeds it, Timburr can tank a hit and use Drain Punch or Mach Punch if it's weakened, and Scraggy can tank a hit, set up, and Drain Punch, or just use Drain Punch.

**Physical Walls**: Physical walls such as Spritzee and Hippopotas can easily take any hit and retaliate with their respective STAB moves. They can also recover any health they lost in the process with their recovery moves.

**Status**: Deino is especially weak to status, as burns cripple halve its Attack, paralysis slows it down, and poison whittles its health down and limits its switch-ins.

GP 2/2

 

[Water Drone]

Done Deino is done.

 

[tehy]

Yes, other than totally ignoring all of my comments, most of which were hugely relevant...

Blarajan

Trubbish is fsr not mentioned as beating fairies, croa and foongus dont beat fights?

Fighting-types are a really good way to beat it besides being 2hkoed by outrage or ohkoed if scarf and dont ohko with prio? Where are steel-types mention btw.

Zen headbutt...why? To not be locked in when smashing fights? Why not fire fang, for cottonee aka 'walls you for life and Ohkoes'

 

[Water Drone]

Ok. Ill add trubbish to checking fairy and vice versa with gunk and foongus even though doesnt matter that much.

Reasoning for fighting types are in c&c, lists how they all beat it. And idk, steel types arent mentioned in c&c maybe because superpower is a main move.

Not adding fire fang. Only does ~50% to cottonee not even worth it. Zen headbutt can reliably KO poison and some fighting types without worrying about fairies switching in.
I really dont think its worth it to literally only hit cottonee, since its worthless for anything else. Not to mention its hard to predict on a scarf set.
236+ Atk Hustle Deino Fire Fang vs. 116 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Cottonee: 10-14 (45.4 - 63.6%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO

tl;dr most changes werent relevant or necessary

 

[tehy]

Ok. Ill add trubbish to checking fairy and vice versa with gunk and foongus even though doesnt matter that much.

...yes it does? It looks really, really dumb. That's really, really, bad.

Reasoning for fighting types are in c&c, lists how they all beat it. And idk, steel types arent mentioned in c&c maybe because superpower is a main move.

That reasoning explains precisely how they all check it after it's gotten a kill. That's not a "great way to deal with deino" (even if they can take crunch and superpower.)

If steel types are not mentioned due to superpower being a main move, despite as you say it being 'hard to predict on a scarf set', well...

Let's examine fighting-types for a second. How are they switching in and answering deino 'greatly'? On the revenge, double switch, in on a favorable move. Now, in a double switch deino is free to superpower, but that's pretty prediction-based. If steel-types come in on a favorable move...



236 Atk Hustle Deino Outrage vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Ferroseed: 7-9 (29.1 - 37.5%) -- 26.5% chance to 3HKO
(7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 9)

Without def evs, even. Gyro 2shots back. It can also take 2 crunches.


236 Atk Hustle Deino Outrage vs. 76 HP / 0 Def Pawniard: 12-14 (54.5 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 14)


236 Atk Pawniard Brick Break vs. 0 HP / 36 Def Deino: 18-22 (85.7 - 104.7%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
(18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 22)

Fine, it needs a bit of damage. At least it can switch in, though.


236 Atk Hustle Deino Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magnemite: 12-14 (63.1 - 73.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 14)


240+ SpA Magnemite Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 36 SpD Deino: 15-18 (71.4 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 18)

So basically it switches in, takes one hit, and blasts back first. Sorta like...


196 Atk Timburr Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 36 Def Deino: 14-18 (66.6 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 18)

Timburr wins on the revenge thanks to drain and can switch into crunch and superpower (losing half its life on super). On the other hand, magnemite needs a good bit less prior damage to start ohkoing.

Overall, steel-types can at least switch into outrage and KO or nearly so first, or take 2 and dish back damage.

Whereas fighting-types can only revenge or switch into lesser moves, or sometimes prio.

But yea, fighters are great. Steels! Pff, who needs them.

Not adding fire fang. Only does ~50% to cottonee not even worth it. Zen headbutt can reliably KO poison and some fighting types without worrying about fairies switching in.

I...i...WHAT?


236 Atk Hustle Deino Zen Headbutt vs. 212 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 6-8 (22.2 - 29.6%) -- 85.9% chance to 4HKO
(6, 6, 6, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 8)


-1 236 Atk Hustle Deino Zen Headbutt vs. 116 HP / 196 Def Eviolite Snubbull: 5-6 (20.8 - 25%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO
(5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 6


236 Atk Hustle Deino Zen Headbutt vs. 116 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Cottonee: 6-8 (27.2 - 36.3%) -- 11.7% chance to 3HKO
(6, 6, 6, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 8)

Let's say you kill a poison or fighting-type with outrage. A fairy-type comes in to revenge you. Now, do you think 'what a bummer?'

No! You think, "holy shit, he had a hard wall and i still managed a kill!!!!11! Thanks, bad opponent! I mean, it's not like deino is a defensive virtuoso and it only revenges unboosted threats at 80% accuracy. It's a cleaner and smasher and it can't do either with fairies around, so why not 1 for 1 trade?


...by the way, it seems like you mean "revenge those mons", since i'm not switching to them if i have a fairy. That's kiiiinda okay for poisons, but why would you revenge fightings with a 72% accurate move on a pokemon that can't afford a miss and needs significant weardown and is hit se by any prio besides fake out they have?

Mienfoo: 14-18 (66.6 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(14, 14, 14, 14, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 18)

Regenerator+drain punch, js. You do smash the LO set but this is way more common.


236 Atk Hustle Deino Zen Headbutt vs. 76 HP / 76+ Def Eviolite Timburr: 14-18 (56 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(14, 14, 14, 14, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 18

Still has drain punch as main stab, mach punch for 66% minimum.

Croagunk, fair enough, though vacuun wave is really no fun for anyone.

So, to sum it up: zen headbutt is okay at revenging stuff you shouldn't even necessarily be revenging, barely okay at hedging, and will only really matter in situations where deino is deadweight anyways. Oh, and it has ~focus miss accuracy.

I really dont think its worth it to literally only hit cottonee, since its worthless for anything else. Not to mention its hard to predict on a scarf set.
236+ Atk Hustle Deino Fire Fang vs. 116 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Cottonee: 10-14 (45.4 - 63.6%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO

See, here's the thing. If a fairy-type exists, as i mentioned, you are pretty much a non-factor. You kiiiiind of help defensively and maybe force out certain unboosted threats that trouble your team, but you give up constant free attacks or support moves in return. Maybe if you managed to kill said fairy you can sweep lategame, though that's a big maybe.

Cottonee, according to the june stats (the most recent stats i found, and i did search fairly hard), is used about 10% of the time. Now, maybe usage dropped dramatically since then, but it could've also risen, so, so let's stick with 10%. That means that in one out of ten battles, your deino is deadweight.

Unless you have fire fang, in which case you can not only take it out with good prediction, but pose enough of a threat to force a mispredict (likely after you scored a hit with fire fang though). Now, maybe you have a bulky grass that prevents it from healing, in which case zenbutt is okay, but you still want to kill it fast. By the way, predicting a mon that takes lol from half your moves and zero from a third is...still not easy, but definitely easier.

Of course, the real thing about zenbutt is that it lets you trash fighters on the switch-in without being lock-revenged by a faster scarfer. Still, if those fighters (or pzns i guess) are weakened, crunch, superpower, or fire fang (dry skin croa) can still 2hit. And if those moves can't, you can almost certainly outrage twice, which means a half chance of it ending. Which means the opponent sacced a mon for a half chance of revenging another. Only timburr, due to mach, and kinda croa, are changing this. (You can switch out of croa after fanging it and its wave isnt that strong.)

Now, outrage can miss when locked in. But, if the first misses you can switch out, so you only need to worry about the second one. And zen "focus miss" headbutt has its own missing problems. (2 outrages hit 64%, zen 72%. Lol.)

tl;dr most changes werent relevant or necessary

Tl;dr, and after that i bet everyone needs it...

Zenbutt is only mattering in odd situations where you're revenging stuff you shouldn't be revenging or hedging against stuff you can just outrage, and don't want to be locked in.

Fire fang gets past a true counter.

The changes are so necessary i can taste them.

By the by, it's kind of worrying that I provided better reasoning than you for your argument, especially since i've never used deino. This does NOT, in any way, come from a place of arrogance and is not meant to be insulting.

You're a fine writer and all, i just think you need a bit more metagame experience.

 

[Water Drone]

lol. I'm not going to argue with you anymore this analysis is done.

 

[tehy]

You know, I really have zero respect for anyone who says "i'm not arguing anymore." I mean, occasionally I will have arguments that stretch on for a page and even I will get tired of it, but when your argument is a grand total of one, fairly short post (which wasn't even as good as the argument I brought up, just so I could defeat it), I find it's just a way to admit defeat while pretending like your arguments aren't invalid.

Of course, you're entitled to ignore the argument and submit an inferior analysis because you have gotten to the done stage. I think that's shoddy worksmanship, personally, but it's within your purview.

And hey! Macle will probably upload it just out of dislike for me, so you'll probably get this done without any further trouble!